Peppermint OS Community Forum

General => Development => Topic started by: kendall on March 23, 2014, 02:37:23 am

Title: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: kendall on March 23, 2014, 02:37:23 am
Just thought I'd ask to see what everyone is working on at the moment.

Personally, I'm re-exploring Django, but this time with Twitter's Bootstrap framework for the frontend just to see what I can put together. I made a relatively simple blogging platform tonight just to see what it would look like. I think I'm going to keep on experimenting for a while as I quite enjoy Django development and I'm loving Bootstrap's short design time and quick deployment.

(http://i.imgur.com/vU2L3Sx.png)

EDIT: Yes I'm using Ubuntu right now. I tend to always use it the last couple of months before a Peppermint release just to see if there are any particularly good ideas lurking around anywhwere.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 23, 2014, 10:28:51 am
Nothing as far as tweaking/playing, just drowning in other peoples broken Windows machines as usual .. so if there's anything I can help with, I'd be happy to turn away from the Windows boxes for a while ;)

[EDIT]

And now the SSD on my sons Peppermint laptop has died  .. it's going to be one of those days  :o
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: dsplayname on March 23, 2014, 03:03:50 pm
I opened a new restaurant last week, called Ration and Dram.   Aside from all of that work, I got most of my garden planted, and have been trying to prepare my house for spring.   Computer-wise, I haven't been up to much.  I have been trying to learn a little bit more, compile all the photos for my portfolio,  formatting my online cookbook, and have been doing some work on plymouth and GTK themes.   I got hit by a car a few days ago, and between the solid concussion and sprained wrist, it is hard for me to sit in front of the computer for a while and I don't have the dexterity to really draw anything.  I'll be back to 100% in a few days though.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 23, 2014, 03:17:51 pm
Jeez dude . that's all that comes to mind after that posting  :o

Hope you are at 100% quickly.

[EDIT]

Bumped to "Trusted User" status :)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: mac on March 23, 2014, 06:04:59 pm
Wow!  Hope you mend soon.   :)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: rjm65 on March 23, 2014, 06:25:47 pm
Yes take it easy and heal up...  :)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: kendall on March 24, 2014, 09:57:50 am
Well this topic took a pretty hard left.  ;)

@dsplayname: Congrats on the new restaurant!!! Also, hope the recovery is quick and painless.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: spence on March 24, 2014, 12:13:14 pm
we're doing some research on a new desktop... since we have an '05 desktop and an '03 laptop still running WinXP... due to software which requires an MS platform... wish I could move hubby's new desktop to peppermintOS... but he's not in the mood for learning a new platform whilst following all the trading he does each day...

Saturday morning, we brought home a little doggie to fill some space left empty for a while... So I'm doing quite a bit of playing and walking...

Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: emegra on March 24, 2014, 03:19:02 pm
Been messing about with SolydX because I wanted to try a Debian based distro just to see what it was like , all I can say so far is thank god for the Ubuntu repos  :)







Graeme
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: VinDSL on March 24, 2014, 09:41:44 pm
I've been tied up mostly in labor disputes lately - grievances, arbitrators, attorneys - contract compliance and best practices, blah, blah, blah.

On the digital frontier, my Conky script continues to gain popularity, albeit in my absence.  It seems to have taken on a life of it's own.  Paramvir is doing a total rewrite on his most excellent Wunderground  weather module.  My Conky script tutorial has 221K views and 1500 replies, and advanced users have picked up the slack, while I'm distracted by real-life concerns.

Hopefully, things will simmer down soon, so I can get back to coding.  In particular, I want to write a visualizer for producing music videos, but I just don't have time to devote to that project, right now.

Bwahahaha!  I should take a #selfie.  It's getting dark in here (nightfall).  I'm surrounded by two laptops and a desktop box.  I'm doing tasks on all three displays.  Is it just me, or is everyone's life this crazy?  I'll turn on some lights when I'm done with this post.  Anyway...

Life would surely be a lot simpler if there were 52 days in a week, and 365 weeks in a year.  LoL!  :)

BTW, this site is looking great!  Kudos!

Let's see if I can post a screenie (of my road warrior)...

(http://vindsl.com/images/vindsl-desktop-24-mar-2014-1(650x407).png) (http://vindsl.com/images/vindsl-desktop-24-mar-2014-1.png)

Close enough.  Good job!  ;)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: 10i on March 25, 2014, 01:03:54 pm
Since August 2013 I've been working in a book shop, working retail hours.

Trying to get back into computer training / sales / remote support. Working at the mall pretty much takes over your life.

When I have time again, I am trying to learn Inkscape, so that I am no longer dependant on Corel Draw.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 25, 2014, 01:58:17 pm
I think this topic is becoming seriously off topic, and I'm afraid I may have been the one that started it  :-[

As it's under "Development", I'm pretty sure Kendall originally meant "What development projects (if any) are people currently working on"

Not "having a go" at anyone, as I said it was probably my response sent it off topic .. just saying it should probably be allowed to come back "on topic" :)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: kendall on March 25, 2014, 02:24:06 pm
As it's under "Development", I'm pretty sure Kendall originally meant "What development projects (if any) are people currently working on"

Yes. As in, what code has everyone (anyone?) been writing, what is the function of said code, and how do you intend to implement it.  ;)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on April 29, 2014, 06:55:32 pm
I just sent an email to Jeff Hoogland (of Bodhi Linux), wondering, in essence, if the Enlightenment desktop environment could become the desktop environment of the future, especially if LXDE is slowly fading away.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: kendall on April 30, 2014, 03:42:01 pm
I just sent an email to Jeff Hoogland (of Bodhi Linux), wondering, in essence, if the Enlightenment desktop environment could become the desktop environment of the future, especially if LXDE is slowly fading away.

With the slow shift away from X11 and toward Wayland and Mir, it's going to be very surprising to see what happens with various desktop environments, especially the smaller projects.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on April 30, 2014, 10:39:03 pm
Well, Kendall,   I'm familiar, as much as possible, with X11 -- LXDE (Lightweight X11 Desktop Environment!).  When I think of LXDE, I think of Peppermint and Lubuntu.

Now Enlightenment seems to be a pretty rare desktop environment.  From what I can find, it had pretty much faded away, with the exception of Bodhi Linux, and now Makulu Linux-- which interestingly enough, in Makulu's case, has also incorporated Xfce into the E 17 distro.

Xfce seems to have become a toolkit DE!  I like Xfce, but it is not as light as LXDE.

Do you know if Enlightenment desktop uses Wayland and/or Mir?  I've heard you talk about Wayland and Mir before, and I will look the terms up.  I've put Bodhi linux Beta onto a flash drive, and I'm trying to understand what's going on with it.  It is an interesting DE,  but I can't say I've figured my way around it that much yet.  From what I've learned, the desktop is the menu, and that is a very clever idea.  Still, at least for me, it is not, as of yet, an up and out-of-the- box distro as Ubuntu or Peppermint is.  I'm just wondering if it has the potential to be made so.

Here's what Jacque Raymer, the developer of Makulu Enlightenment says about Makulu's E 17 desktop, and it sounds as if it is a very difficult desktop environment for a developer -- and a lone developer at that, from what I can tell.  It sounds as if he had a very tough time working with it.

http://www.makululinux.com/enlightenment.htm

I find all these different DEs very interesting to look at and explore.

Thanks for sharing these ideas with me.  It is a fascinating topic.

P.S.

I've never been able to successfully install Makulu.  Bodhi Linux installs much the same way as Ubuntu and Peppermint does.

Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 01, 2014, 06:40:14 am
X11 does not  = LXDE .. LXDE does not = X11 (though it sits on top of it like pretty much all other DE's including E17/Enlightenment)

X11 is NOT a desktop environment, it is the framework that has provided the underpinnings to all Linux desktop environments to date... It covers things like windowing, graphics and input driver hooks, and some networking protocols:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System

It has been an amazing piece of software over the years, but in the opinion of many has become a bit overly complex as bits were added to it, and patches applied.

Like most software - things tend to get added, taken away, changed, and patched and after a while it all becomes a bit of a tangled mess where nobody can fully understand the implications of adding another patch will be .. ie. you add a patch to fix a shortcoming, and that patch inevitable breaks something else or opens a security hole as an unforeseen circumstance, which may go unnoticed for quite some time.

So eventually there comes a time where software tends to be either rewritten from scratch, or broken down into constituent parts where the most tangled or outdated parts can be rewritten .. these times are also often used for a complete change of direction.

X(11) has in many people oppinion become a bit of a behemouth, Wayland and Mir are two projects to replace "part" or the X server functionality .. hopefully allowing faster/better graphics, and a cleaner path for future development.

What (I presume) Kendall means is - desktop environments will to a certain extent need to be rewritten to work with Wayland or Mir, how will this affect DE projects that only have small development teams .. will they have the manpower to do it ?, will they stick with X11 ? .. will that make them outdated themselves ? .. or will it make them appear more stable whilst the others that move to te new tech seem buggy at first ?

It's all anyones guess at this point.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 01, 2014, 02:06:02 pm
Thank you for explaining that to me.

Now Peppermint OS has been the easiest operating system I've ever worked with, and Bodhi Linux' operating system is the lightest OS I've ever seen that has a GUI.  Might the menu items of Peppermint be placed within the light desktop environment of Enlightenment be a solution to LXDE's, and therefore Peppermint's future problems?

I'm beginning to guess the answer is "no" as of now -- because of the needless complexity and patches added to X11, which both Peppermint and all current Enlightenment DEs share.

We, meaning Peppermint Nation,  have many things that other Linux distributions do not have.   We have a light set of tools that are practical and understandable right out of the box.  We have a fantastic introduction to what Peppermint is, even including some very easy and practical commands for the terminal.  I was guessing we could transfer what we have here to an Enlightenment DE, but today I'm beginning to think things might not be going this way.

Am I working with an interesting idea, but one that is already out of date?  Or might both Peppermint, and the Enlightenment desktop environment, all one day morph into a direction both working with Wayland or Mir -- two development concepts I admittedly know nothing about?

Am I being helpful here, playing with this idea of Peppermint possibly being also within an Enlightenment DE?

Hey, I know I'm only an honorific Jr. Member of Peppermint, but really I'm a complete and utter N00B.  Still I can imagine the Enlightenment desktop as an extraordinary palimpsest in which to place, and possibly breath even more life into Peppermint.  And I may be the only dreamer around imagining such an idea.  I do not know.

You know, I'm sure, I'm just playing with ideas here as an end user.  I'm looking for usability, security, speed, stability, lightness, and understandably.  I also know the OS of the future has to be able to sync well with all types of interface platforms.

I don't know why, but I just seem to think about this stuff a lot these days.

So this is the idea I've been thinking about lately -- pure Peppermint but within an Enlightenment DE.  Would that be a realistic marriage of concepts, or something else?  I do not know,and that's why I'm asking the question.

All should know, I'm just playing with an idea here, based on my own observations.   Any and all opinions -- yeas, nays, or something in between -- are all welcomed and encouraged.  This is just a conversation concerning an idea, and hopefully a fun one, nothing more.

Thank you,

perknh
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 01, 2014, 02:18:32 pm
At this point nobody knows where the X11/Wayland/Mir thing is going, and which DE's will survive, or if completely new ones will appear.

I can't see Peppermint going with enlightenment as a DE, nor would I want it to .. Enlightenment has some great tools such as terminology but it still feels a bit of a mishmash to me
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 01, 2014, 04:40:25 pm
The brilliant thing about the Enlightenment desktop, to me, is that the desktop is the menu.  Left click and we have all the default menu items right there, and that's pretty darn impressive.  Now the frustrating thing for me about Enlightenment, with what I've seen so far, is that when I left click and I see the menu items, I'm not so happy with them.  In my very layman's opinion, the lighter desktop environment is probably Enlightenment, and not LXDE, but LXDE seems to have a better set of default menu items.

And, at this point, PCNetSpec, I can't even backup what I'm saying about CPU or memory between the two DEs.   Why?  Because, believe it or not, I haven't found the task manager yet.  It must be there, but I have yet to find it.

Still I see the concept of the desktop as the menu as fascinating. 

As for terminology, I passed it by about a half dozen times before I realized it was not a vocabulary lesson!
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: rjm65 on May 01, 2014, 05:06:08 pm
I am a huge fan of LXDE, in fact when I look for an distro to try I look for LXDE distros, or distros I can switch over to LXDE with very little issues... Like for example antix has a metapackage manager, and inside if you choose Desktop managers, then you have a choice of about 10 you can install and lxde is one of those....  :)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 01, 2014, 05:50:09 pm
rjm65,

I'm a fan of LXDE too.  I just keep hearing it's on its way out, and because I run Linux on laptop computers at home, I'm always looking for the lightest desktop environment that will use less cpu.  (Our computers have good memory so I don't worry much about that.)  I keep hearing that Enlightenment desktop environment is the lightest desktop environment for system resources, even lighter than LXDE.  This is the reason why I'm playing around with Enlightenment DE -- in this case Bodhi because it does run on 64-bit computers, and I know how to install it!

I still haven't found an OS easier to work with than Peppermint, with the possible exceptions of Ubuntu's Unity OS or Ubuntu with Xfce (Xubuntu).  I tend to keep away from Lubuntu.  After using Peppermint I always feel as if I'm taking a step down with Lubuntu.  I know that sounds terrible but that's what it feels like to me. Also I've never warmed up to Firefox either, no matter how wonderful I keep hearing it is.  On lots of fronts, I believe Peppermint just works better than Lubuntu.   

I'll now go to DistroWatch.com sometime and take a look at AntiX.

Thank you.

perknh

P.S.

I looked at AntiX.  I see it's based on Debian testing (Makulu is too), and I sometimes find Debian very difficult to install.  How was the instillation process?  I know how to install CrunchBang, but that is based on Debian's Wheezy, but I always return , time and time again, to Peppermint.   Peppermint has proven to be home turf to me.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 01, 2014, 06:09:25 pm
Right-click menu is nothing new .. indeed standard LXDE uses the openbox window manager that can do that

LXDE distro's then tend to use PCmanFM to control the desktop right-click menu but that can easily be changed back to the openbox default behaviour if you choose

Peppermint on the other hand no longer uses openbox as the window manager, instead we opted for the xfwm4 window manager because of its built in compositor and richer features.

That said, there's nothing stopping you from installing openbox if you REALLY want a right-click menu.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: rjm65 on May 01, 2014, 06:24:47 pm
Yup the right click is there on antix mx14 running LXDE they are using openbox like pcnetspec said....
I won't bore you about how I feel about firefox, let's just say I started online in 1995 with netscape, and when netscape turned into mozilla, well I guess that about says it all, I will not run a system unless firefox is on it....  :)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 01, 2014, 07:57:18 pm
From what I can tell, left clicking gives you the menu in Bodhi Linux, and right clicking gives you your favorites.

I hear Firefiox is becoming, at least superficially, more and more like Chrome.  I know Firefox is open source, and I know it is one of the better browsers in existence.  Since I believe deeply in open source, I respect your decision to use it.  I know you've chosen your browser wisely.

For me I guess Chrome, and Maxthon,  have just gotten their hooks in me. Both browsers are so user friendly, and I like so much the built in flash within Chrome.  But you know, if Firefox begins to work more and more like Chrome, I may give it a whirl again.  I know, in theory, even if I don't practice it, that Firefox is one of the best open source browsers to use.

I would use Chromium, if it came with flash, and if the Ubuntu repositories would update it more frequently.  I tweak the settings like mad within Chrome, and I use DuckDuckGo, StartPage, or Ixquick search engines just about 99% of the time.  I've also added the DoNotTrackMe extension.  I hope this extension is helping my household secure some privacy -- at least to a more reasonable degree.  That is, if privacy actually exists anywhere is the US any longer!

rjm65, I'm curious, have you ever tried an Enlightenment desktop environment?  Did you find it easy to use if you did?  And what were your impressions of it if you have?
 
I can't say I understand Enlightenment DE very well, but it feels very, very light.  I'll have to go to their forum and ask where the task manager is located.  I must admit, I am at a loss as to where it is located.  This may be all in my imagination concerning Enlightenment's lightness.  I have no records to compare between LXDE, Xfece, and Enlightenment.  I need to do more homework.

Thank you,

perknh





Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: rjm65 on May 02, 2014, 06:18:24 am
Yes I have tried Bodhi and I did not like the DE at all... I love cinnamon and mate and LXDE those are my 3 favorites, however LXDE is the easiest one to tweak and find scripts for to do the things that you want done....    :)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 02, 2014, 08:38:09 am
rjm65, I'm modifying my posts  My home experiments concerning cpu and memory did absolutely no one any good or justice.  But I sent you a personal email concerning a new Mate distribution that its developer, Jaque Raymer, is very proud of.

I can see why Kendall, PCNetSpec and Team Peppermint are wondering what the replacement will be for LXDE in the long run.    Still, no doubt LXDE can, and will, be able to accommodate a few more patches over the next several years.  And I believe Ubuntu's 14.04 kernel will prove itself to be very good when it shows up in Peppermint 5.  LXDE is a great DE, and now I'm understanding more clearly why its days are considered numbered.  But, maybe I'm wrong here, maybe it is just X11's days that are numbered.

And now, to answer Kendall's original question as to what I am working on right now-- well nothing any longer, I guess.  My experiment with the Enlightenment desktop has proven fruitless so far.  My new project now will be to study the concepts behind interface and desktop environments, and this will take me a long time to study.

I would like to help us here with ideas, but in this particular case, my idea with exploring Enlightenment desktop didn't end up being very helpful.  I see you guys have explored it long before me.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: kendall on May 05, 2014, 10:39:22 am
I can see why Kendall, PCNetSpec and Team Peppermint are wondering what the replacement will be for LXDE in the long run.    Still, no doubt LXDE can, and will, be able to accommodate a few more patches over the next several years.  And I believe Ubuntu's 14.04 kernel will prove itself to be very good when it shows up in Peppermint 5.  LXDE is a great DE, and now I'm understanding more clearly why its days are considered numbered.  But, maybe I'm wrong here, maybe it is just X11's days that are numbered.

We're not really "wondering what the replacement will be for LXDE" so much as we are trying to hedge our bets on a couple of potential technology shifts in the relatively near future. I have a very good idea of where I want to take Peppermint in the future, but the timing of certain things I'm not willing to disclose just yet will mostly shape this direction over the next 2 or 3 years.

I would like to help us here with ideas, but in this particular case, my idea with exploring Enlightenment desktop didn't end up being very helpful.  I see you guys have explored it long before me.

I really hate to say it but I've been shooting down the idea of using Enlightenment for years now. Even back when I was a Linux Mint developer the topic came up about once every month or so. I know this might sound counterintuitive but I actually like Enlightenment quite a bit. In fact I'm extremely happy that distros such as Bodhi exist and are well maintained. Rather for years, Enlightenment seemed undermaintained and was quite a bit of a mish mash of a desktop. Now that it's become significantly more cohesive (and understanding the risk of me sounding incredibly reductionist) I find that there are really two types of people: those who really like Enlightenment; and those who really don't like Enlightenment. I haven't really found a lot of people who have used Enlightenment and don't have a strong opinion about it. For me this is the death knell for using it as a default desktop environment. For years I've tried to abide by the philosophy that a desktop environment shouldn't be seen as a feature, rather it should stay out of one's way and provide the most seamless means possible for the user to accomplish what they need to do. When people use a computer they're 99% of the time using the desktop environment as a means to accomplish some other task (surfing the internet, checking email, writing a paper, editing a picture, etc, etc) so the focus needs to be on letting the user accomplish those tasks as efficiently and intuitively as possible. When a desktop environment inspires strong feelings, then I feel it's fundamentally failing at this. Similarly when I talk to someone about a distro and they don't/barely mention the desktop, I feel that the desktop is succeeding in this regard. That said, I maintain the stance I've kept for several years now: You aren't going to see a project from me that uses Enlightenment as a default desktop, at least not for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 05, 2014, 03:36:17 pm
Thank you, Kendall,

I can see my ideas about Enlightenment weren't nearly as enlightened as I had thought!

I went to Wikipedia today to looked up X11, and then Wayland, and Mir.  I've learned that these are Windowing systems.  I read that Fedora has tentative plans to go with Wayland, but that Mir has qualities better suited for portability. I also read that Wayand puts a great deal of emphasis on security, which may be, and I'm just guessing here, why one very important department within the U.S. Navy is allegedly going for Red Hat or Fedora.

That's all I know so far.  I'm starting from scratch in order to understand this stuff, but I find all this information about development within Linux fascinating.

Thank you very much for giving me a better understanding how a Linux distribution is developed.

perknh
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: emegra on May 05, 2014, 03:59:19 pm
I've found the more I try to learn about Linux development the less I actually understand so I can only judge a desktop environment on how it works for me personally, and recently I tried Gnome Shell with Lubuntu 14.04 and I have to say I really like it, it's very easy to navigate and very polished and to be honest I don't find any significant speed difference with LXDE and I don't have a particularly powerful PC.






Graeme
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 05, 2014, 05:03:08 pm
Thank you, Emegra,

Right now, in my experience, Peppermint 4 is lightening fast, and is the fastest distro I've ever seen.  Now we just need LTS.

I know so little about this, but this would be like creating a Gnome version of Lubuntu, right?  I believe Ubuntu has just released a Gnome version of Ubuntu, and this is the same idea but on a lighter scale -- very clever!

I can see I understand very little about development, but I'm trying to understand it as well I can conceptually. But you and I seem to both be concerned about practicalities too.  And Emegra, I always ask this question to myself concerning a desktop environment:

Can I put this desktop environment on any senior citizen's computer and have them able to use it right out of the box?

If the answer is "yes", it's a winner.  If the answer is "no", I won't share that desktop with them.  So far the easiest DEs I've seen, and in order are, Peppermint's version of LXDE, Ubuntu's Unity desktop, and then Xubuntu's version of Xfce -- that's my very short list. (I really think it's almost a tie between Peppermint's LXDE and Ubuntu's Unity DE, but I lean towards Peppermint because there's less bloat.)  I thought previously, and quite naively, that Peppermint could just place its very light menu within an Enlightenment desktop environment, and, presto, we have another lightening fast distro to choose from -- but, this time, with all the best menu items Peppermint has to offer.   I thought we'd a larger user base in a jiffy.  Now I know things are not nearly as simple as all that.  From what I can tell, there's an X11 Windowing problem that is emerging over time, and all the Linux developers are trying to figure out what is the best way to go for their particular distributions after X11.

Emegra, your Gnome idea is interesting.  I'm just so new to Linux that I've never used a Gnome DE.  I believe I head Richard Stallman once say that Gnome is dead.  I guess he meant, at the time he said that, that Unity was replacing Gnome for Ubuntu.  But I can see Gnome is very much alive at Ubuntu, and for many people, it's their DE of choice.

Thank you, Emegra.  I didn't know you could do what you did with Lubuntu until right now.  I consider what you did to be very, very clever.

perknh

 
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: rjm65 on May 05, 2014, 05:34:36 pm
I can't stand unity, if they never would have went to unity I would still be using ubuntu, that was the reason I went looking for other distros...  Unity is an absolute memory hog, and on older machines i don't recommend ubuntu to anyone anymore....
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 05, 2014, 06:07:32 pm
Hello rjm65,

I agree, I was just thinking about ease of use.  I had to remove Ubuntu's 14.04 Unity off of my friend's old Dell 3000 Dimension computer.  It was freezing up all of the time.

And because his computer is not my computer, I replaced Ubuntu with Xubuntu for the time being, under a mutual agreement that I will replace Xubuntu with Peppermint 5 as soon as it is released.

Thank you,
perknh

P.S.

By the way, on a side note, you inspired me to try Firefox again, so I've installed it here in Peppermint 4, but the version I have (version 26) is not the latest version.  I'm looking forward to trying version 29  of Firefox when Peppermint 5 comes out.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 05, 2014, 09:07:07 pm
You can try Firefox 29 (in Peppermint 4) now if you like.

Just download the 12.04.2 .deb (for your architecture) from one of these links:-

32bit
http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/f/firefox/firefox_29.0+build1-0ubuntu0.12.04.2_i386.deb

64bit
http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/f/firefox/firefox_29.0+build1-0ubuntu0.12.04.2_amd64.deb

then double click the .deb to install it.

NOTE -

For me it said it conflicted with the hunspell-en-us package (but that it provides it anyway) so I closed the gdebi window, then uninstalled hunspell-en-us with:
Code: [Select]
sudo apt-get remove hunspell-en-us
then double clicked the ,deb to fire up the gdebi installer again .. and it flew on :)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 06, 2014, 09:10:22 am
Well that was an unexpected score!    Thank you both very much  -- rjm65 for the idea, and PCNetSpec as to how implement it!  The instillation went exactly as predicted.

Firefox is now becoming,  more and more, user friendly like Chrome, and it is now even better looking than Chrome -- since it was able to pick up my custom coloring I had for Peppermint.  Chrome didn't do this for me when I installed it here.  I wonder if this change will start bring Firefox back again to the many distros that had switched to Chromium because of Chromium's ease of use.  Time will tell.

Now, since I'm one of those guys that can't even spell cat without a k, Would you know if I can get Firefox to automatically underline my misspelled words?  That feature seems to be absent for me anyway.    Also, if possible, I would like to get rid of that top title bar.  It is very attractive, but it does take up some usable space on this laptop.  Do you have any guess as to how to do this?  i looked on the Firefox forum, and online.  All I discovered is that I'm not the only one asking this question.

Thank you very much, PCNetSpec, and rjm65.   This is quite a discovery for me.

 :)

perknh
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 06, 2014, 09:43:43 am
First go here:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/united-states-english-spellche/
and click the "+ Add to Firefox" button .. then the "Install Now" button.

Now click to reply to this posting.

In the text box (where you'd normally enter your reply) .. right click, and select
Languages > English (United States)

right click again, and make sure
Check Spelling
has a tick next to it.

Now try typing
colour
(British spelling)
and it should have a wavy red line underneat it
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 06, 2014, 02:59:42 pm
Thank you very much, PCNetSpec,

Now I see how this is done.  I'll be using personalized add-ons in Firefox.  Now, when I type your name, PCNetSpec, your name is underlined in red, so I can see that the spell checker is working.
 
I will begin learning how to use Firefox now.  Until today, I had never taken to it.   Now Firefox seems workable and fun.

Thank you,

perknh
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 06, 2014, 04:56:09 pm
So right click PCNetSpec whilst it has a red line underneath and select "Add to Dictionary" .. because that's the correct spelling  :D
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: VinDSL on May 17, 2014, 08:16:11 pm
[...]  recently I tried Gnome Shell with Lubuntu 14.04 and I have to say I really like it [...]

I originally started using Gnome Shell as a tool to modify/customize the Unity DE. 

After a while, I got involved in Gnome Shell testing, blah, blah, blah.

Truth be told, I "really like it" too...

Never tried installing GS on Peppermint.  Maybe I'll do that, when I have some free time.

I DID install GDM on Peppermint once.  Heh!  Boy, was that a mistake!?!?!  That won't happen again!   ::)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 20, 2014, 08:17:40 am
I tried putting the E17 shell on our beloved Peppermint.  It didn't work out well for me.  My computer froze,  and things just didn't work as they should have.  It was a very short lived experiment.  Now, I've been following Bodhi, and right now it's in heavy development, but I do believe E19 is going to be a whole different animal, probably because it will be using Wayland compositing agent (it don't know the correct word) for its next stable release --  a release coming in July.

There seem be two general paths in which development is going.  Unity, Gnome, KDE, Arch, and Enlightenment appear to be working with Wayland.

Xfce and LXDE appear to be working with Mir.

Since I'm an end user, and not a developer, I'm a little saddened by this news.  I don't want to lose LXDE, but the reports on Mir is that Mir is a bit of clumsy solution to the problems of X.  I certainly don't claim understand all of the developmental problems within the DE world of Linux.  But what I do know to be true for me is that both LXDE and Xfce are the most user friendly DEs I have found -- without all the bloat found within Unity.  (I do have to admit Unity is user friendly too, but is way, way too bloated.)

LXDE might not be the fastest, or the most beautiful, or have the most bells and whistles., but it has been, so far, the best multipurpose DE I've ever worked with, and Xfce comes in second, only lacking the speed of LXDE, but having a few features that LXDE does not intrinsically support.  LXDE is still extremely fast, and attractive, making it very appealing for most users.  I also has an excellent selection of basic applications that most of us care to use.  This combination of factors makes LXDE a winner in my book.

Could LXDE or Xfce do a turn around and adopt Wayland if Wayland proves more the more efficient compositor?  I hope so.

perknh
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 20, 2014, 09:09:44 am
Quote
but the reports on Mir is that Mir is a bit of clumsy solution to the problems of X

I'm willing to bet that's coming from Ubuntu haters and/or Wayland fans ;)

and even if it's true, does it necessarily mean anything ? .. I mean Betamax was a superior Tech to VHS, but we all know what happened there .. they're both "means to an end", so as long as they achieve their respective goals, does it matter about arguing which parts of one have technical merit over the other and vice versa ?
(inevitably it'll be "6 of one and half dozen of the other")

Quote
Could LXDE or Xfce do a turn around and adopt Wayland if Wayland proves more the more efficient compositor?

Of course they could, though as both's flagship distro are part of the Ubuntu family, I wouldn't hold your breath.



Unless you're a DE developer, the whole Wayland Vs Mir (shall we call it) "debate" is currently just a "my dad can beat up your dad" childish school yard argument .. nobody currently knows which will turn out to be the right direction, so overall technical merit is currently undefinable.
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: rjm65 on May 20, 2014, 09:44:12 am
Well I am not a de developer, however I think our dads should duke it out in the schoolyard, while we sit and watch eating our Farley's Rusks and drinking beer....  LOL   :D
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 20, 2014, 10:47:48 am
Good idea, rjm65.

Make mine an IPA!

 ;D

perknh

Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: emegra on May 20, 2014, 11:46:00 am
Been trying my hand at Python, I have a few ideas for simple childrens games/puzzles  I want to see if I can write them




Graeme
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 20, 2014, 12:22:24 pm
PCNetSpec,

I got a chance read quite a bit this morning about the two compositors -- Wayland and Mir.  Honesly I can't remember for certain the specific source, or sources, that led of that observation.  I did go into my browser's history, but there was too much for me to ferret out.

But here may be one of the key references from which I drew my conclusion.  As for the choice of the work "clumsy",  I chose that word after reading many articles on both Wayland and Mir.  I take responsibility for the word, because it seemed to summarize what I had read earlier from several other sources.  Maybe it was a bad word to use, I do not know.  Sorry if it was to harsh a word.  My intention was never to be instigatory. 

Here's one link that led me to that conclusion:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTM5NDQ

This young bright fellow,  Michael Larabel , always appears to be quite unbiased from what I've read of him.  He' s pretty much a reporter, and seems to let the chips fall where they may.  The general conclusion I've come away from reading lots of material is that the vast majority of distributions are considering Wayland to be better option than Mir for replacing X.   I figure these developers are all smart guys and gals.  More must be going over to Wayland for a reason.

So why could this possibly be important to me as a simple end user?  Well, I just don't want to lose LXDE or Xfce over time.  And if we keep LXDE and Xfce, I would like them to be as topnotch possible, as they are right now.  I keep reading that LXDE is dying, and I believe there is no need for it to do so. I also don't want it to become a poorer quality DE, while the other DEs keep getting better and better.

Another discussion on this subject I found interesting is here, and is from Reddit: 

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1gzrg1/xfce_lxde_and_gnome_3_running_on_xmir_on_mir/

As for the dads fighting, I knew it was a joke.  And if I must watch this flight play itself out, as an end user while sitting at ring side, I still intend to watch this battle of the minds with an occasional IPA in my hand.

I stand pretty firm when it comes to my choices of beers and ales.  But as for either Wayland or Mir, I'll listen to anything anyone has to say.  I am learning about this stuff.  I admit I'm no expert on the subject, and I am open to new ideas.  Still, from what I can see right now, smart money seems to be going more and more towards the direction of Wayland and less towards Mir -- that's just an observation. 

I don't want to lose LXDE, especially, if in the long run if we end up betting on the wrong horse, or, in this case, the wrong school yard dad.

Thank you.

perknh



Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 20, 2014, 02:45:32 pm
If you leave the server market out as most don't require a DE anyway .. I'd say your premise that most are moving towards Wayland is wrong anyway .. the vast majority of Linux distro's are Ubuntu based, and I can't see Canonical/Ubuntu disappearing in a hurry.

Currently the whole "which is better" thing is up in the air .. and "better" includes MUCH more than just "technical merit" ;)
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: perknh on May 20, 2014, 08:31:54 pm
Hello PCNetSpec,

You make a good point.  If Ubuntu's Xubuntu and Lubuntu do not go away, then I know we'll be okay.

At the end of the day, if Xfce and LXDE survive, and if they remain fast, secure, and user-friendly, I know I'll be happy.

I just don't want to lose Xfce or LXDE because of developmental missteps.  If it wasn't for Xfce and LXDE, I doubt I'd be with Linux right now.

And because of Linux' LXDE, I'm using Peppermint at least 90% of the time for my computing and Internet needs.

Looking at things through your paradigm, that Canonical will continue to exist, and therefore we shall as well, is an excellent way to frame and examine the Wayland versus Mir debate.  If any open source company will sort it out, it will most likely be Canonical.

You know, PCNetSpec, I like your paradigm better than mine.  It's so simple.  Just observe, and follow the leader, Canonical, and watch what it does with Wayland and Mir.  This really is the simplest way to figure out what is most likely to come down the pike.

PCNetSpec, I told you before, and I'll tell you again: you should write a book!  Your point is well taken.

Your insight as to how to observe this Wayland/Mir debate just made my life a lot easier.

Thank you,

Good point!

perknh
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: rjm65 on May 21, 2014, 08:23:17 am
Time to pull up a chair and grab some Farley's Rusks and Beer and watch what they do next...  Right Mark???   :D
Title: Re: What is everyone working on right now?
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 21, 2014, 08:47:01 am
Honestly, none of this worries me .. I've seen a lot of things hailed as problems for Linux come and go and Linux survived them all.

The Linux community is as vibrant, diverse, and innovative as ever .. in fact more so ;)

Things people say are negatives (eg. many DE's), I've always seen as Linux positives .. sure some projects will forked, and/or change, and some may even disappear with the devs moving on to other projects .. but that's just how the Linux world  works and it's done us no harm so far :)

Maybe in the long run either Wayland or Mir will fail, but it doesn't really matter .. projects that rely on the failed one will either change to the other, or be replaced by something else that does.

As I said, the fact that Linux projects run off in all directions is a strength not a weakness .. it means that if any direction turns out to be "wrong", there are many other projects that MUST have gone in the "right" diection who's tech (because it's open) can be "appropriated" by forks of failing projects or new ones.

Ya gotta love OSS :)