Peppermint OS Community Forum

General => GNU/Linux Gaming => Topic started by: scifidude79 on March 06, 2017, 10:47:32 am

Title: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 06, 2017, 10:47:32 am
Isn't it sad that the best game controller available for Linux is still the Microsoft XBOX 360 controller?  I mean, it is one of the best, if not the best constructed controllers on the planet.  (got one right, M$)  But, with all the controllers out there, the one that works as expected 100% of the time and is great for both Steam and non Steam gaming is the XBOX 360 controller.  So much for getting away from Microsoft.  ???

This is, unfortunately, even after Steam releasing their own controller, which you'd expect to work great for Linux, given that their own OS is based on Debian.  Yet, while it works OK for Steam games, the Steam controller doesn't work for other Linux games, unless you add them to your Steam library.  ::)  Furthermore, the lack of a right thumb stick makes some games much harder to play, as the track pads just don't offer the same kind of flawless performance for FPS games or twin stick shooters.  I found a Playstation 3 controller has mapping issues in Steam and, when I re-mapped it, it stopped working correctly.  And, Logitech and other controller manufacturers need to apply, since they tend to not work with Steam either.  (they work great with other stuff)

So, I own two Steam controllers, and a Steam machine.  Yet, to play certain games, I actually purchased another wired 360 controller, a black one this time, to match the Steam Machine. 
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 06, 2017, 11:21:39 am
the Steam controller doesn't work for other Linux games, unless you add them to your Steam library.  ::)

Do you mean because it requires steam / big picture mode to work ?

https://github.com/kozec/sc-controller

Current .deb files...

64bit Peppermint 7 (16.04)
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/kozec/xUbuntu_16.04/amd64/sc-controller_0.3.7_amd64.deb

32bit Peppermint 7 (16.04)
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/kozec/xUbuntu_16.04/i386/sc-controller_0.3.7_i386.deb
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 06, 2017, 12:07:23 pm
the Steam controller doesn't work for other Linux games, unless you add them to your Steam library.  ::)

Do you mean because it requires steam / big picture mode to work ?

https://github.com/kozec/sc-controller

Current .deb files...

64bit Peppermint 7 (16.04)
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/kozec/xUbuntu_16.04/amd64/sc-controller_0.3.7_amd64.deb

32bit Peppermint 7 (16.04)
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/kozec/xUbuntu_16.04/i386/sc-controller_0.3.7_i386.deb

Nice!  Thanks, I'll have to try that later because I'm about to go to work.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 06, 2017, 03:31:30 pm
Works for me .. no need to start Steam at all :)
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: VinDSL on March 06, 2017, 06:52:43 pm
Isn't it sad that the best game controller available for Linux is still the Microsoft XBOX 360 controller? 

Unrelated, probably, but your sad story made me think of my own:

I still use PS/2 corded ball mouses (with scroll wheel).  Buy 5 at a time, and throw them in the trash bin, when they get janky. 

Can't stand optical USB mouses !   There's no *feel* to them.

Just saying.  Okay, carry on ...   :)

Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 06, 2017, 07:13:53 pm
Bit outa left field that John ??? .. I still use a pen to scratch my *****

Same reason .. an optical mouse just hasn't the same "feel"

Just saying...
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 07, 2017, 02:05:15 am
You're right, an optical mouse doesn't feel the same as a wheel (ball) mouse.  Thank goodness for that, in my opinion.  I find an optical mouse to be much smoother, and the wheels tend to get dirty real easily.

Anywho, the thing about the controllers isn't a feel thing, it's a function thing.  A wired XBOX 360 controller just works.  Plug it in, it works.  No configuration, no adding any programs or adding it to Steam and registering it to your account (yup, you've gotta do that with Steam controllers.)  It just works OOTB.  That's all I'm saying.  So, one thing Microsoft makes just works.  Go figure.  :P

Personally, I like to use bare fingernails for any and all scratching.  It just does the job better.  :-\
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: zebedeeboss on March 07, 2017, 02:46:46 am
Bit outa left field that John ??? .. I still use a pen to scratch my *****

Pop to the Dr's.  I am sure they will have some cream for that

Just saying...
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: Timo on March 07, 2017, 07:46:13 am
Most third party controllers use XInput as well, that's probably why it's well supported everywhere.

However this standart has it's downside as well, with XInput most games moved away from free input settings and only accept analog inputs over XInput. And if you're that weird guy that wants to use a gameboard with a mouse, most modern games/engines won't be able to do that. Either you can use XInput (Thumbstick works properly but Mouse doesn't) or the Mouse+Keyboard setting (Mouse works, but you have to mount e.g. WASD to the Thumbstick wasting the precision of it). In older games which don't support XInput you can set it up however you like. In some modern games this is possible as well, but it's pretty rare nowadays :(
I'm not playing FPS so much, but I'm always questioning how all those PC-Masterrace-FPS-Players are ok with their weird 8-way movement and those with controllers can't aim anyways :-\
The realism of modern games, either your legs aren't working properly or your arms... Graphics are more important anyways, I guess ::)
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 07, 2017, 02:31:02 pm
Personally, I like to use bare fingernails for any and all scratching.  It just does the job better.  :-\

You obviously don't have the same hedgehog skin pen I do.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 07, 2017, 02:50:45 pm
We have these tools where I work that are supposed to help you straighten products on the shelf quickly.  I say supposed to because, well, they leave a bit to be desired.  However, many of us have taken to calling them back scratchers (among other less flattering names) because they're basically a thin metal rod with a 90 degree bend at one end and a handle on the other end.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: VinDSL on March 08, 2017, 05:29:56 am
Bit outa left field that John ???

Kinda hard to follow my logic sometimes - it isn't linear.  LoL !   :)

Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: VinDSL on March 08, 2017, 05:35:23 am
You're right, an optical mouse doesn't feel the same as a wheel (ball) mouse.  Thank goodness for that, in my opinion.  I find an optical mouse to be much smoother, and the wheels tend to get dirty real easily.

I thought you might be saying, sometimes newer isn't better.  Regardless, I agree.

Everybody buys toilet paper ...  ;)
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 08, 2017, 10:54:03 am
Well, it's just one of those things.  Some people like newer tech, some prefer older tech.  My Mom prefers CRT monitors, the rest of the family is happy with LCDs.  Of course, if her current monitor goes out, then she will have to buy an LCD, if she wants a new monitor.  I personally miss the good old days of digital joystick controllers.  Analog sticks are great, they offer much better and more natural movement, they're really responsive and you can change speeds with them.  However, I grew up playing Atari with digital joysticks, and there's nothing quite like it.  I love those things. But, they were replaced by D-Pads.  (thanks Nintendo ::))  So, how good or bad newer technology is all comes down to personal preference.

Everybody buys toilet paper ...  ;)

I like the soft kind.  ;D
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: murraymint on March 08, 2017, 11:03:06 am
Those stupid console controllers were one reason I got out of gaming decades ago. Now I've got 3 arcade-style "fightsticks" to play games on MAME, but I hardly ever get round to actually using them...
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 08, 2017, 11:06:35 am
This is where it's at right here:

(https://evilgenius180.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/7800controller.jpg)

I actually did a search on Amazon a while back to see if anybody still makes digital joysticks, to use on my Atari Vault games on Steam.  It turns out, all I could find was a cheap knockoff of the Atari 2600 controller with horrible reviews.  Meanwhile, companies reproduce Nintendo and newer controllers right and left.  ::)
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 08, 2017, 11:10:52 am
Hm, I just found this:

https://www.amazon.com/Mayflash-F300-Arcade-Fight-Joystick/dp/B019MFPLC0/ref=sr_1_4?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1488989262&sr=1-4

Kind of pricey, but it looks pretty solid.  Arcade style.  8)
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: murraymint on March 08, 2017, 11:14:15 am
Yes, that's the style. They're not calling them "digital joysticks", which might have been the problem. You can find cheaper but perfectly decent ones. One of mine looks like a previous, grey version of this which was only about 20:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/qvf/Universal-Fighting-Stick-PC-PS2-PS3-USB/B0015PHMFU/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1488989570&sr=8-12&keywords=fightstick
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 08, 2017, 11:16:35 am
Yeah, I saw the one you linked to.  However, the advantage to the one I linked to is that it will work on my PS4.  I have Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, Dig Dug and Galaga on my PS4, and there are some other arcade games I want to get.  I hate playing Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man with the PS4 controller.  The analog sticks just don't do it for me, and I have to use the D-Pad.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 08, 2017, 11:21:33 am
No, here's where it's at:-
https://shop.xgaming.com/

[EDIT]

Or maybe someone does a gold plated one with diamond inlay that pours your beer and massages your feet (and all via USB) ?
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: murraymint on March 08, 2017, 11:23:06 am
I like the old arcade platform games (anything involving bubbles) and some of the beat-em-ups, as they used to be called.

*Descends into a misty haze of nostalgia*
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: murraymint on March 08, 2017, 11:24:28 am
LOL Mark, there was a time I was considering bidding on eBay for one of those double-joystick panel monstrosities. I still don't know where I'd have put the thing. :D
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 08, 2017, 11:27:14 am
If only I could afford an arcade cabinet....
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: murraymint on March 08, 2017, 11:28:59 am
It's interesting that the cabinet people still prefer CRT monitors for the old games. Is there that much latency with HDMI these days? It's not as if they're plasma screens any more (ew).
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 08, 2017, 11:32:16 am
That site isn't just about arcade "cabinets" .. this is a standalone USB thingy :o

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0192/2714/products/tank-stick_large.png)

https://shop.xgaming.com/collections/arcade-joysticks
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: murraymint on March 08, 2017, 11:34:21 am
That's the one I was going to bid on (or maybe I did but dropped out). If I lived in the US I'd probably buy a new one.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 08, 2017, 11:36:22 am
It's interesting that the cabinet people still prefer CRT monitors for the old games.

I think you answered your own question there murraymint .. if you're doing an "old game" arcade machine, it simply wouldn't be the same on anything other than a CRT.

In fact nobody likes "modern" attempts at "classic" in anything .. if you get what I mean, it just comes off as tacky.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 08, 2017, 11:36:35 am
It's interesting that the cabinet people still prefer CRT monitors for the old games. Is there that much latency with HDMI these days? It's not as if they're plasma screens any more (ew).

There are issues.  Light guns won't work on LCD or LED screens, for one.  There's no way around that, that I know of.

I actually have a Retro TRIO console that plays NES, SNES and Sega Genesis games.  (gotta love how patents expire)  It comes with yellow, white, red connectors and S-Video.  NES and SNES work great on my HDTV with YWR, but I get weird stability issues when I try to play the old Genesis cartridges that way.  The S-Video clears up the stability issues, but the graphics don't look as good on NES or Genesis with that.   The only one that looks good either way is the SNES portion.  I have no issues with any of it playing on a CRT with YWR connectors.  So, there's that.  Old cartridges weren't necessarily designed to be played with newer equipment.  Some people also claim they have latency issues with retro consoles that use HDMI. I have one that came with over 100 games running on emulation.  If you set it to a 4:3 aspect ratio, it works fine on HDMI.  If you don't and you have it stretched (I have no idea why anybody would want to play these games this way) you get unsynced video.  Apparently, a lot of people played it this way because of the reviews.  ::)  But, the thing also has YWR connectors, and works great with any display setting on that.  So, sometimes, people are just idiots.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 08, 2017, 11:37:05 am
That site isn't just about arcade "cabinets" .. this is a standalone USB thingy :o

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0192/2714/products/tank-stick_large.png)

https://shop.xgaming.com/collections/arcade-joysticks

I know, I saw it.  And that still doesn't alter my wish to be able to afford a cabinet.  ;)
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 08, 2017, 11:40:07 am
Anything called "X-Arcade Tankstick" was always gonna get my vote :))
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: murraymint on March 08, 2017, 11:40:21 am
Yes, I understand why people want a good CRT screen - I want one but the proper arcade ones are expensive!

I don't really play trackball games so I could have got the cheaper version. It's the shipping over the Atlantic that would be the killer cost.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 08, 2017, 11:45:46 am
I was actually looking at late model CRTs, they were produced up until 2008-ish, on Ebay a while back, for my retro games.  My issue is space, I don't have room or available outlets for a CRT and an LCD.  I can't have just CRT, since my newer consoles (including my Steam Machine) are HDMI only.  Kind of makes me wish I still had the TV I bought in high school.  It still worked, but I gave it away when I bought my HDTV.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 08, 2017, 11:47:10 am
And if anyone ever makes a "Rolling-Thunder Sledgestick", they'll get my money.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: VinDSL on March 09, 2017, 06:29:17 am
Well, it's just one of those things.  Some people like newer tech, some prefer older tech.  My Mom prefers CRT monitors, the rest of the family is happy with LCDs.

No pun intended, but I'm with your mom on that.

I still prefer CRTs for critical graphic work.  They render much truer colors, if you let them 'warm up' and stabilize for a half-hour or so.

Only reason I don't use them all the time is because of their size, weight and power usage, e.g. they're too big and expensive to run on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: scifidude79 on March 09, 2017, 09:35:10 am
My goodness, I just had a horrible thought.  If I had a CRT, I'd have to actually clean my desk to make room for it.  ??? I've got stuff all over it ,which works with an LCD, but wouldn't with a CRT.
Title: Re: Isn't It Sad
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 09, 2017, 12:00:08 pm
And possibly buy a new desk .. Modern veneered MDF/chipboard furniture bows like heck under the weight of a CRT, given time when you put a pen on the desk it rolls towards the monitor :)