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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: rjm65 on April 12, 2014, 03:09:56 pm

Title: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 12, 2014, 03:09:56 pm
5 more days till Lubuntu release...
Peppermint 5 coming soon...
I can't wait...  LOL     ;)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: AndyInMokum on April 12, 2014, 05:23:38 pm
I was playing around with 14.04 LTS Beta yesterday from a thumb drive.  It looks a feels really good.  Its certainly quick.  You really notice the difference between LXDE on Openbox and LXDE on Xfwm4. I can understand why Kendall chose to use Xfwm4,  That's not saying anything bad about Openbox.  If it is a hint at what PM 5 going to be like, I'm going to like it.
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 12, 2014, 07:45:59 pm
Notice the difference how ?
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: AndyInMokum on April 13, 2014, 08:15:46 am
Yeah, the first thing I noticed was how geometrical OpenBox is.  The sharp corners on the window boxes.  Xfwm4 allows for much softer graphics with the rounded corners.  The graphical effects are far more varied compared to the choice of, "on or off" with OpenBox.  Maybe its my artistic side but Xfwm4 + LXDE produces a far more organic desktop experience than the mechanical hardness of OpenBox + LXDE.  As I said, I'm not knocking OpenBox.  I Just think it works better as a stand alone window manager -  Crunchbang, ArchBang and ManjaroBox really showcase OpenBox well.   :)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 13, 2014, 09:16:59 am
I'm not disagreeing with you, in fact I agree whole heatedly .. I just wondered what it was that you preferred :)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: AndyInMokum on April 13, 2014, 09:47:45 am
Oh yes,  I know what you mean.  Yeah, I think that Xfwm4+LXDE provides a much better desktop experience than the OpenBox+LXDE combo.   OpenBox needs to be used as a stand alone window manager.  That's where you see its beauty and elegance.  The Xfwm4+LXDE combo is almost serendipitous considering LXDE was meant to be paired up with OpenBox.  I can see other light weight distros using the Xfwm4+LXDE combo in the future.  Its a great example of Linux's flexibility.  8)!
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 13, 2014, 03:29:36 pm
I tried the lubuntu daily build on a second laptop now and I ran into a problem...  the machine won't shut down or reboot without holding down the power button...
Dang I guess this means peppermint 5 won't work on that machine unless there is some kind of a fix for this problem....  :(
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 13, 2014, 03:50:50 pm
NEVER shut down a Linux PC by holding the power button, or pulling the plug .. you are HIGHLY likely do corrupt the file system.

Rebooting/Shutting Down a *nix operating system safely.

If you are unable to shut down from the command line with:
Code: [Select]
sudo shutdown -P now
then use the REISUB/O trick.....

This *should* work in ALL cases except a kernel panic (or obviously a keyboard failure), in which case you have no option other than to use the power switch
( a kernel panic is "usually*, but not always, signified by alternately flashing keyboard lights)

Hit and hold Alt+SysRq .. now whilst holding them, type R E I S U B leaving a few seconds between each keystroke (preferably till hard drive activity stops).



REISUB is an old Unix keyboard sequence to reboot a frozen system without screwing up the file system.
(REISUO powers OFF the PC rather than rebooting)

In case you're interested, the REISUB keystrokes are actually sending commands to the core linux kernel. This is what it's doing:-

R = Take control of the keyboard.
E = Tell all running programs except from the master control system to terminate.
I = Forceably kill any programs which didn't shut down from the last command
S = Force any unwritten, cached data to be written to the hard-drives .. Some files, when they're written to your hard-drive are cached in RAM (which is wiped when it looses power), in order to speed things up. This command makes sure they're all written to the hard drive from RAM.
U = Remount the drives read-only, makes sure nothing can write to your hard-drive(s)
B = Restart the system.
or
O = Power OFF the system.

REISUB can be remembered with "Restart Even If System Utterly Broken" .. you'll have to remember the O yourself ;)

Remenber to leave a few seconds between keystrokes, for the commands to do their thing.

Hints -

Some laptops require AltGr+SysRq instead of Alt+SysRq

SysRq on most PC's ia the same key as PrtSc (print screen)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 13, 2014, 04:08:34 pm
thank you for that info, I will remember that... 
is there any way to fix it so it boots and shuts down on its own???
I'm sure peppermint 5 will probably do the same thing since it will be based on this version of lubuntu....  :)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 13, 2014, 05:08:10 pm
I tried your little trick and it don't work on this laptop.... 
guess the power button is what i will have to use, to continue playing with it on this particular machine....
I did however hit escape when shutting down to remove splash screen, and it gets all the down too (system halt) then sits at a flashing cursor....  :)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: AndyInMokum on April 13, 2014, 05:24:16 pm
I had a freeze around Christmas. I couldn't get R E I S U B to work on my lappie either.  I tried every combo I could think of.  I even gripped a pencil between my teeth to use as an extra hand.  I gave up an went for broke with the power button.  Fortunately, I got away with it.  Another reason why backups are vital - just in case of unforeseen disasters!  :)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 13, 2014, 05:35:27 pm
what is funny is it works great on the other laptop reboot and shutdown normally, I think this laptop has a problem somewhere because it is not the only distro to not shutdown...  i had a few i was trying on it, just to play around and give me something to do until peppermint 5 comes out, but I think a lot of the problem is video card related...  its a shame but what can you do....
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 14, 2014, 08:20:53 am
I tried your little trick and it don't work on this laptop.... 
guess the power button is what i will have to use, to continue playing with it on this particular machine....
I did however hit escape when shutting down to remove splash screen, and it gets all the down too (system halt) then sits at a flashing cursor....  :)

Sounds like an ACPI issue .. and if it's getting as far as unmounting the drives then it's OK to use the power button.

If I'm right, there's no safe and easy way to fix it as it's a BIOS issue.

A later BIOS *MAY* fix the issue, but probably not, and getting this wrong could brick the PC .. so isn't really worth the risk.

Beyond that, there may be a kernel boot parameteer that will work, but this wil take some experimenting.

Has it ever shut down properly with any Linux distro ?
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 14, 2014, 10:20:35 am
Sounds like an ACPI issue .. and if it's getting as far as unmounting the drives then it's OK to use the power button.
If I'm right, there's no safe and easy way to fix it as it's a BIOS issue.
A later BIOS *MAY* fix the issue, but probably not, and getting this wrong could brick the PC .. so isn't really worth the risk.
Beyond that, there may be a kernel boot parameteer that will work, but this wil take some experimenting.
Has it ever shut down properly with any Linux distro ?
It has the last made bios in it, but I am betting you are right about acpi....
Yes other distros work....
the distros that shutdown and boot are below....
1. Peppermint 3
2. LXLE 12.04.4
3. LMDE Mate up8
4. SolydX 32 bit 201401
The distros that won't shut down and reboot are
1. Antix M14
2. Lubuntu 14.04 daily build
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 14, 2014, 10:29:02 am
Unlikely to be an ACPI issue then.

Have you run a full system update ?

What's the output from:
Code: [Select]
uname -a
?
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 14, 2014, 01:12:31 pm
Unlikely to be an ACPI issue then.

Have you run a full system update ?

What's the output from:
Code: [Select]
uname -a
?
Yes i ran the full system update...
I am posting in a spoiler a video of what it is doing along with my inxi-F and the response to you code up above....
Spoiler (click here to view / hide)
http://youtu.be/9Dl8SE55LNY (http://youtu.be/9Dl8SE55LNY)
Code: [Select]
inxi -F
System:    Host: hpze4400-Pavilion-ze4400-DL390A Kernel: 3.13.0-24-generic i686 (32 bit)
           Desktop: LXDE (Openbox 3.5.2) Distro: Ubuntu 14.04 trusty
Machine:   System: Hewlett-Packard product: Pavilion ze4400 (DL390A) version: KAM1.60
           Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 0024 version: PQ1A84 Bios: Phoenix version: KAM1.60 date: 05/04/2005
CPU:       Single core mobile AMD Athlon XP2200+ (-UP-) cache: 256 KB flags: (pae sse) clocked at 795.138 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] RS100 [Radeon IGP 320M]
           X.Org: 1.15.0 drivers: ati,radeon (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1024x768@47.5hz
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI R100 (RS100 4336) x86/MMX+/3DNow!+/SSE NO-TCL DRI2 GLX Version: 1.3 Mesa 10.1.0
Audio:     Card: ULi M5451 PCI AC-Link Controller Audio Device driver: snd_ali5451 Sound: ALSA ver: k3.13.0-24-generic
Network:   Card-1: National DP83815 (MacPhyter) Ethernet Controller driver: natsemi
           IF: eth0 state: down mac: 00:0b:cd:e9:a1:ea
           Card-2: Qualcomm Atheros AR2417 Wireless Network Adapter [AR5007G 802.11bg] driver: ath5k
           IF: wlan0 state: up mac: f8:d1:11:53:a7:45
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 31.0GB (9.6% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: HITACHI_DK23EA size: 30.0GB
           2: USB id: /dev/sdb model: DataTraveler_2.0 size: 1.0GB
Partition: ID: / size: 27G used: 2.7G (11%) fs: ext4 ID: swap-1 size: 0.94GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap
RAID:      No RAID devices detected - /proc/mdstat and md_mod kernel raid module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 61.0C mobo: N/A
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 115 Uptime: 3 min Memory: 134.6/874.2MB Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 1.9.17
Code: [Select]
uname -a
Linux hpze4400-Pavilion-ze4400-DL390A 3.13.0-24-generic #46-Ubuntu SMP Thu Apr 10 19:08:14 UTC 2014 i686 athlon i686 GNU/Linux
[close]
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 14, 2014, 04:59:41 pm
Does:
Code: [Select]
sudo shutdown -P now
completely shut down the PC ?

[EDIT]

Is it possible to disable the modem in the BIOS ?
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 14, 2014, 05:39:19 pm
Does:
Code: [Select]
sudo shutdown -P now
completely shut down the PC ?

[EDIT]

Is it possible to disable the modem in the BIOS ?
Bios is lame only has a few choices like for lpt1 and usb and boot sequence, nothing for the modem....
and the above command does same thing shuts down linux and sits at a cursor....
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 14, 2014, 07:14:09 pm
Try the solution with the green tick here:
http://askubuntu.com/questions/162211/shutdown-does-not-depower

let me know if you need help with that.
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 14, 2014, 07:33:05 pm
Try the solution with the green tick here:
http://askubuntu.com/questions/162211/shutdown-does-not-depower

let me know if you need help with that.
still sits at the cursor after reboot and trying....  :)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 14, 2014, 08:00:38 pm
And you updated grub after making the 2 edits ?
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 14, 2014, 08:10:21 pm
And you updated grub after making the 2 edits ?
yes sir i did.... 
I don't understand it i was hoping that would work... there was an lp at the end of the modules, i put that command before the lp, maybe i should put it after the lp????
here is copy and paste of the two files let me know if something is in the wrong order....
Code: [Select]
Modules file
# /etc/modules: kernel modules to load at boot time.
#
# This file contains the names of kernel modules that should be loaded
# at boot time, one per line. Lines beginning with "#" are ignored.
# Parameters can be specified after the module name.
apm power_off=1
lp
Code: [Select]
Line changed in grub
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash acpi=force apm=power_off"
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 14, 2014, 08:48:46 pm
Run:
Code: [Select]
sudo gedit /etc/modules
and make it read
Code: [Select]
Modules file
# /etc/modules: kernel modules to load at boot time.
#
# This file contains the names of kernel modules that should be loaded
# at boot time, one per line. Lines beginning with "#" are ignored.
# Parameters can be specified after the module name.
lp
apm
SAVE the file, and exit gedit.

Run:
Code: [Select]
sudo gedit /etc/default/grub
and change that line back to:
Code: [Select]
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
SAVE the file and exit gedit.

Run:
Code: [Select]
sudo gedit /etc/modprobe.d/apm.conf
and when an EMPTY file opens, make it read:
Code: [Select]
options apm power_off=1 realmode_power_off=1
SAVE the file and exit gedit.

Run:
Code: [Select]
sudo update-grub
now REBOOT .. then test shutting down.



If this doesn't work and you want to carry on, can you please start another topic with a more descriptive title .. this is a support question so doesn't reaally belong in "General Discussion", and definitely not under a topic titled "5 more days till Lubuntu release" ;)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 15, 2014, 11:53:51 am
Well we tried I guess... Does the same thing.... Is there any point in going further Mark???
I think this laptop just does not like Lubuntu 14.04 daily build...

So there really is no reason for me to wait for peppermint 5, cause it will probably do the same thing on this laptop....
I'll just put on it one of the distros that worked, and give it back to my cousin.....

Funny how i had the same problem with peppermint 4 and the IBM T22 not shutting down, but yet Lubuntu 14.04 daily build works on the T22 perfectly....
I just think certain machines like certain builds, and that's what we have to use to make them work....   :)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 15, 2014, 12:55:13 pm
If you want we can wait till Peppermint 5 then attempt to sort it if necessary ?
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 15, 2014, 01:17:43 pm
If you want we can wait till Peppermint 5 then attempt to sort it if necessary ?
Would be interesting to see what we could do...  LOL  I have my old 10 gig drive in her machine now with Lubuntu 14.04 daily on it....
I was just gonna pull it out and put her drive back into it which I have all set up with LMDE up 8 Mate.....
that one seems to run the most stable of all the ones i tried on it and I have it all tweaked down it loads up using 150 megs ram which is about 18% of her total ram which is about 880 megs...  video card uses 128megs it actually has 1 gig total....
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 19, 2014, 04:47:14 pm
Mark I wish to thank you for trying to get Lubuntu 14.04 to work on my old machine....
The problem was figured out and I thought it would be wise of me to point out what solved it so Kendall could consider it for peppermint 5....
The problem with the machine is even though it has a PAE flag on the processor, the 686 PAE kernels when installed would not shut down or reboot the machine they would exit linux and sit at a cursor..... I went nuts trying to figure out why lubuntu 14.04 and antix mx14 and others would all do this and yet solydx and lmde up 8 rebooted and shut down normally on this machine....
I downloaded and tried NON PAE 486 Kernel OS's and they all shut down and boot properly....
I was wondering since this is happening on 3 different laptops that have here that run peppermint 3 fine but won't shut down on Lubuntu 14.04 if Kendall would consider making a NON PAE version of peppermint 5????
Thanks in advance....  :)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 19, 2014, 05:43:56 pm
a) I seriously doubt if there'll be a non-PAE version for a whole host of reasons.

b) In any case you're only giving anecdotal evidence that it's an issue with PAE.
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: rjm65 on April 19, 2014, 06:01:10 pm
how can we prove its a pae thing...  :)
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: perknh on April 21, 2014, 03:07:19 pm
I tried Lubuntu 14.04 LTS Final Release.  I put Docky on it -- just plain old Docky, not Cairo-Dock, just the simple Docky we have in Peppermint-- and there appeared about a three inch shadow, a darkening effect, at the bottom of any of my wallpapers I was using, going across the entire length of the bottom of my screen, directly above the panel bar. 

I hope our developers will become aware of this bug.  I suspect many of us using Peppermint OS  use on Docky daily basis, and I'd hate to see this bug make its way into our next release, especially if we can stave off this bug from our end.

(This may be a Docky issue of which we will have no control over.  I do not know.)

perknh
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 21, 2014, 04:05:06 pm
It's NOT a bug in Docky or Lubuntu, that is caused by standard LXDE (and therefore Lubuntu) not having a compositor by default .. it's one of the reasons we moved to the xfwm4 window manager in Peppermint 4

Peppermint 5 (like Peppermint 4) will have a compositor by default, so Docky and Cairo-dock should "just work".
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: AndyInMokum on April 21, 2014, 04:48:52 pm
This is a great example of how different Peppermint is from Lubuntu though.  We've got spoiled using Peppermint's spin of LXDE   ;).
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: mac on April 21, 2014, 04:50:12 pm
Good point  :D
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: perknh on April 21, 2014, 07:23:21 pm
I tell everybody Peppermint (and Ubuntu Unity -- if you have a sufficiently powerful computer for it, and you take that new Amazon feature out of Ubuntu Unity too) are the two best Linux distros in existence for out-of-the-box workablity).  I prefer Peppermint, but I like the full, long term support of the Ubuntu distributions.

Ubuntu Unity is like a Rolls Royce, and Peppermint OS is like a Ferrari -- both are gorgeous in their own ways.

I know a lot of people put down Ubuntu, but, really, where would we be in Peppermint without Ubuntu?  It's like it's the father, or grandfather, of Peppermint -- depending on how you look at it.

I went to the Lubuntu forum and I ran a sudo command -- thinking I was composting Lubuntu.  I probably did something wrong.  I was an old highly recommended command, but for an older version of Lubuntu. 

People, my knowledge of Linux s sophomoric at best.  I consider myself a newbie.   I still have an awfully lot to learn yet.  All I know is that I love this stuff.

Thank you for the insight.

perknh
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 21, 2014, 07:43:54 pm
For Lubuntu (or Peppermint <= 3) you want to be looking at compton:
http://lubuntublog.blogspot.co.uk/p/compton.html
and
http://linuxforums.org.uk/index.php?topic=10662.msg80989#msg80989
Title: Re: 5 more days till Lubuntu release
Post by: perknh on April 21, 2014, 08:57:52 pm
PCNetSpec,

Wow!  I can't believe such a link even exists.

I ended up putting Xubuntu on my friend's old XP computer, as a temporary fix, because of this problem.  I made Xubuntu quite workable, but it seems to be using too much memory, in my opinion.  And my friend's old computer doesn't have that much memory to spare. 

I'd prefer to use an L XDE desktop -- Peppermint's preferably, of course!

Thank you very much, PCNetSpec.

perknh