Peppermint OS Community Forum

General => Development => Topic started by: emegra on November 19, 2014, 04:07:30 pm

Title: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: emegra on November 19, 2014, 04:07:30 pm
I would like to mention a few proposals for future releases of Peppermint that I believe would make Peppermint a more enjoyable and less frustrating experience for new users
in particular

(1) Ubiquity: Ubiquity has a few issues the first is it doesn't show the drive space in text form when in the divider so the only guide a user has is a graphical guide which   may be fine if you want to divide the drive space in percentage terms but quite useless if want to use a specific amount,

the second is much more annoying not to mention dangerous, and in fact caused me to lose a complete Windows partition which is the default allocated drive space ie recently I was installing Peppermint for a friend alongside her Windows partition, when I got to the divider screen the divider wouldn't work so I decided to just use the default amount with the intention of increasing the partition size in gparted after installation but when I got to the next screen I got an error message telling me I haven't allocated enough space ( I didn't allocate the space Ubiquity allocated the space) one thing led to another and I ended up losing the Windows partition and installing Peppermint on the entire disc, fortunately I backed up important files on the Windows partition before I started but it poses the question what's the point of setting a default amount of drive space when it's not enough?, an experience like that for any new user could be enough to put them off trying any Linux distribution for life,

(2) Software Updater: Or more rightly Automatic Updates simply put doesn't work at least not for everyone, I installed Peppermint 5 on 4 home computers and it didn't work out of the box with  any of them and i know from reading the forums that others are having the same issue, this is a problem that has sprung up since the Peppermint 5 release   although I have  reason to believe it's been inherited form Lubuntu but whatever the source of the problem is if we can't fix it maybe we could look for another default system
    updater

None of the above are meant as complaints as such they're just things that should just work and I think if fixed would help make Peppermint the distribution we all want it to be and create a more enjoyable experience for current and new users alike
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: AndyInMokum on November 19, 2014, 04:37:05 pm
Graeme has brought up two really important issues,  I can't make an assessment on the first because I only install Peppermint as a stand alone OS.  I prepare the partitions in GParted and do a manual install.  Ubiquity performs really well like this.  I can understand the frustrations for someone trying to do a dual boot and only having percentages to work with. The to loose a partition.  I recently reinstalled Crunchbang alongside Peppermint.  They are obviously using the Debian installer.  I have to say it is really very easy to use and has more options than the present Ubiquity installer.  I think it would be a good idea to look at Debian's installer as a serious candidate for future releases of Peppermint.

Graeme's second point, namely the updater I have had first hand experience with.  It was a pain in the backside and a potential security risk.  So many people got caught out with it. Mark's solution of swapping it out for Mint's Update proved to be the ideal solution.  The updates now come through in a timely manner.  I think that Mint's Update Manager should be seriously considered as the default Manager for future Peppermint releases.  That's my two penny's worth  :).

Andy
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 19, 2014, 05:12:25 pm
The version of Ubiquity from 14.04 had what I consider a serious "bug" .. they rephrased "Erase Disk" with "Replace OS" which was misleading to say the least when a dual boot setup was envisioned.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1265192

Ubiquity also defaulted to erasing the entire disk when Windows wasn't detected properly (usually because of a GPT partition table), unfortunately the rise of Win8 and PC's with GPT, and the rephrasing combined into a "perfect storm" for a lot of people.

Mint rephrased it in their version of ubiquity:
https://github.com/linuxmint/ubiquity/blob/master/debian/changelog

Quote
* Rephrased ambiguous/confusing/dangerous "Replace OS with Linux Mint" -> "Erase disk and install Linux Mint"

I know Kendall planned to included the Mint changes to ubiquity in a Peppermint respin (dunno what happened to that ?) .. but you can be sure that in the next version of Peppermint, ubiquity will be tested more rigorously and we'll be keeping an eye on developments at other distros, Mint in particular.

As for the slider not mentioning the size .. dunno if that's being looked at either b Ubuntu or Mint.

Updater .. I'll be pushing for mintupdate (with modified default settings, to download ALL updates rather than Mints silly habit of disabling some updates)

Problem is we cannot (won't) push mintupdate as an "update" to the current version of Peppermint 5 .. some people will have made system customisations or be working around the problem .. it wouldn't be fair to thrust a whole new update method on them, where they turn on  their PC and think what the heck is that.

If on the other hand a "fix" for the current updater can be found.........

But I don't have a system that suffers this problem .. some of my clients do, but I can't very well hold onto their PC's whilst I try figure out the root cause.

If anyone comes across a fix, let me know and I'll see if it can be released as an update.

Until then, you can always use the version of mintupdate from these instructions:
http://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php/topic,1104.msg10003.html#msg10003
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: iamesperambient on November 25, 2014, 09:49:03 am
mint updater is working fine for me (with some glitches where it gets stuck refreshing and i have to manually right click and refresh)
but i must say the default one was not working for me at all.
I would say at this point you may have a lot of unhappy campers if the default updater doesn't work,
Its a pretty crappy bug to have.
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: emegra on November 25, 2014, 10:32:20 am
Quote
But I don't have a system that suffers this problem .. some of my clients do, but I can't very well hold onto their PC's whilst I try figure out the root cause.

I'm sure Chloes PC still has this issue if so I could let you connect it to your team viewer account if that's any help
I could keep it switched on and you can work on it when you please




Graeme
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 25, 2014, 10:41:08 am
For the time being I'm just advising people to switch to mintupdate

I don't really like the idea of experimenting on someone else's PC that I don't have local access to .. but thanks for the offer.
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: perknh on November 26, 2014, 08:37:25 am
Team Peppermint,

There's one item, or tool, I could use in Peppermint, and that would be the ability to Safely Remove Drive.  When I go to remove my Toshiba external hard drive, I never know quite how to do so.  I usually unmount it, but I'd like to see the command to safely remove the drive.

I hope I'm making some sense here.

Thank you,

perknh
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 26, 2014, 09:21:52 am
Unmounting the drive is the same thing.

Someone said in an earlier topic that that didn't spin down the drive .. no it doesn't but it does ensure that any cached data is written to the drive then the read heads are moved the "parked" position, so unplugging the drive will safely spin down the drive (there's no need to 'manually' power down the drive).

In fact in Nautilus/Nemo/and probably Caja, unmounnting the drive through the file manager will throw up a popup saying it's now safe to remove/unplug the drive.
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: perknh on November 26, 2014, 10:12:36 am
Thank you, PCNetSpec.  I was never certain about that.  ;)
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: cavy on November 26, 2014, 03:53:23 pm
Apart from the known tech issues discussed above. The following niggles have to be addressed to attract, then keep potential new Linux converts, distro hoppers and seasoned users. 

1. Current base widget selection has to be improved, only Peppermint-Light and Orion-Peppermint, actually have a continuity through their range, neither being my first choice. The Ambiance and Radiance XFCE and LXDE theme from Noobs Lab, work: in all colours. Could be a good starting point, having matching widget and window decor, plus they compliment the Faenza icon range.

2. Would it be possible to sort the Software Manager by removing  redundant or useless items on offer, and into their own category. Keep finding odd items not in their obvious home section. 

3. Clementine, VLC and gThumb as default apps, they're intuitive and straightforward to use. Reason, as a Linux newbie (late 2011) I thought Ubuntu's media player, DVD player and photo viewer were .....! Spent many hours going through buntu's software centre until I found function, use-ability, reliability and added some colour on my Linux desktop. Music, photos and vids taken care of.

Bar adding LibreOffice as the default word processor suite, this would still be a bloat free distro, and highly polished if the niggles and tech issues were ironed out, IMO.  :D
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 26, 2014, 04:19:51 pm
Peppermint doesn't come with pre-installed software unless it's 100% necessary .. that's one of the things I like about it, I don't have to remove someone else's software choices before installing what *I* want.

So I REALLY don't want LO, VLC, gThumb, Clementine, etc. pre-installed .. even though I personally *do* install 3 of those, others would choose differently.

For me it's enough that they're available and easily installable from the package managers .. but I DON'T want them chosen for me.



Non-default themes will receive closer attention next time around .. we're aware of the weird display behaviour of some of the legacy themes, but won't fix via update as it may mess with already applied user customisation.
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: AndyInMokum on November 26, 2014, 04:59:14 pm
It was the lack of pre-installed software and the the emphasise on Cloud functionality that attracted me as a relative nOOb to the Peppermint Project around a year ago.  The user manual provides clear and concise instructions on how to install and remove software.  I immediately removed Guayadeque because I can't pronounce it :D and installed Clementine.  I also installed VLC and dumped the default one that I can't remember the name of.  Those were my choices though.  They could well be completely the wrong ones for someone else.  I personally want Peppermint to remain as a "vanilla" as possible with easy access to the chocolate topping, nuts and sprinkles in the combination I want ;).
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 26, 2014, 05:01:50 pm
^What he said^ .. with (no) nutz :)

Dunno why, but I find it infuriating when software choices are made for me >:(
(even if it's stuff I like)

A mediaplayer was a necessity (you can't really have a web app mediaplayer) .. and guyaduyayadddayaddadequeueue was at least "lite", though VLC might be a better future option.
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: rjm65 on November 26, 2014, 05:28:57 pm
Well, being the local family and friend guru of sorts, I prefer Linux Mint 17 Cinnamon and it is my first choice every time, because it is loaded and after install i just have to make a few adjustments, and give the person their machine back...
Peppermint is my favorite for the older machines....
I won't disclose my feelings about Pep 5 in the forum at this time, because I don't think it is right for me to say things in the public area that are bothering me about pep 5...   
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 26, 2014, 05:33:21 pm
Why not ? .. we can take it (as long as you're civil about it) :)

Constructive criticism is always welcome, we can't rectify things we don't know about .. doesn't mean we have to agree though ;)
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: rjm65 on November 26, 2014, 06:24:05 pm
Well i installed pep 5 fresh and of course you know the wifi didn't work...
no problem you gave me commands to get it working and it did, then while it was downloading updates the screen went black...
well since i already removed light locker and its settings and rebooted i could not figure out why this would happen, meanwhile there are no icons for pcmanfm or or any other useful items like terminal in the task bar in the quick launch tray...  I was just disappointed on how things were working on a fresh install and i was thinking to myself what if someone who knows very little about machines would be trying to do this and install this os? But again there is always the forums to go ask for help as we know, but shouldn't have all these buggies going on like light locker and other stuff have been fixed and a respin made already? I'm not trying to diss anyone, I am just pointing out how my install went, and I decided later on in the day to just bag it and not try to fix pep 5 and all the issues I encountered, and I just blasted on a copy of linux mint 17 cinnamon...  By the way after cinnamon installed it said there was 350 megs of updates i did them all and they had my wifi card as an update cause it sprang to life after the updates completed...  ;)
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: AndyInMokum on November 26, 2014, 06:57:02 pm
I agree with rjm65 on the WiFi issues a lot of people seems to be encountering.  I didn't have a problem with this and my installation was very smooth and trouble free compared to rjm65's bumpy ride.  Having the WiFi working out of the box is crucial for Peppermint to maintain its reputation as Linux's premier Cloud orientated system in my opinion.  Okay, in the majority of cases it is really easy to fix.  However, for a nOOb, this could be a frustrating hurdle and a possible show stopper.
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: perknh on November 26, 2014, 07:36:41 pm
Say what's on your mind rjm65.  You're one of Peppermint's Trusted Users.  You are always helping people.  Believe me, your opinions carry weight around here.  ;)

I'll tell you, I loved, loved, loved Peppermint 4 -- even without of security updates.  Since Peppermint 5 was released, I've worked on two old computers that really couldn't handle it very well -- perhaps due to issues with Chromium browser -- and I've had excellent experiences with Peppermint 5 on two personal computers too.

rjm65, you taught me that not every distribution agrees with every computer.  That insight has helped me a great deal.  And you're terrific at solving computer problems -- and very tough problems at that.

So, please, share your thoughts and concerns with Peppermint 5.  They may end up making Peppermint 6 better.

And now to change the subject for a moment.  Did you notice that PCNetSpec created a password that only Data from Star Trek could remember?

guyaduyayadddayaddadequeueue

Now that's a password to help keep the bad guys away!  :)
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 26, 2014, 08:19:54 pm
You misunderstand our (and pretty much any other distro's) update policy .. I agree switching from xscreensaver to lightlocker was probably a mistake and will likely be dropped either in a respin or in a future release, but it is NOT for us to release an update that removes it on system where people may have already made their own adjustments/tweaks

For those that are happy with lightlocker, are we to remove it from their systems too ?



Wireless .. has Peppermint ever included the b43 firmware ? .. I thought that was license restricted.
(If not, I'll back putting it in the next respin/release)

"Additional drivers" should solve this quite easily though, and AFAIK has always been the way the broadcom firmware was installed legitimately.



"Quick launch" icons .. erm, as with pre-installed software, I personally don't want them, indeed I'd do away with the application launch bar panel applet altogether, the logout button which is the only reason it's loaded in the first place is duplicated in the menu.

Also bear in mind a lot of people have limited screen size with netbooks .. we purposely chose not to clutter the panel, hence the default 2 workspaces rather than the more common 4, but it's all user adjustable .. personally I think the balance of function without (what some would consider unecessary) clutter is about right

This is purely personal preference .. and Peppermint has never had quick launch icons .. in fact, as we barely have any locally installed apps, so what the heck would we put in the "quick launch" area ?

You can't please all the people, all the time, and all that  :-\
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: perknh on November 26, 2014, 08:42:31 pm
Quote
"Quick launch" icons .. erm, as with pre-installed software, I personally don't want them, indeed I'd do away with the application launch bar panel applet altogether, the logout button which is the only reason it's loaded in the first place is duplicated in the menu.  -- PCNetSpec

PCNetSpec, do you prefer desktop icons to using the panel applet?  I began using the panel applet (the second launch bar application) after I discovered its existence.  I thought it would use fewer system resources than Plank -- a dock I like very much.

perknh
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: rjm65 on November 26, 2014, 08:56:17 pm
I Never said to remove light locker?  I just said I removed it and still had a problem...  I did however say it was a buggie that needed fixing in a respin.... 
not to keep going back to mint 17 but I must say they have no light locker problem at all i go into setting turn off light locker and go into power manager and choose to disable dpms and walla the machine ran here for 8 hours without going to a black screen, xset q on pep 5 install after removing light locker showed me DPMS was on and it was set 600 600 600 across the board or ten minutes...  Mark I am just pointing out what I came across to help you and the creators or peppermint so maybe these things can be looked into for a future respin I would love to see pep 5 respin come out and install and work perfectly out of the box without any issues whatsoever, is this too much to ask for, nah I know you guys can do it I have faith in you all...  Will I use pep 5 in the future?  I sure would I would have loved to use it on this mini 10 since the guy gave it to me now and its mine I wanted to put an LTS on it was light weight...  I have mint 17 on my eeepc but that has 2 gigs ram and even though this dell mini 10 has all the same specs as the eeepc it is only 1 gig ram instead of 2 and from what i see online you have to remove the entire motherboard to upgrade the ram so i said Pfffffffffffft on that and decided to go with pep 5...  I may go back again I don't know, but mint 17 is running so fine i hate too at this point...  A while back some guy said mint 17 cinnamon booted faster then pep5, well I did test their boot times on fresh installs before i messed around with any settings and pep 5 booted in 43 seconds mint 17 was 58 seconds, so 15 seconds longer for mint in bootup...  however pep 5 stops on btfrs for about 12 seconds or more so pep 5 could boot as fast as 30 seconds on that old single core machine with 1 gig ram...   
another suggestion i would make is maybe put a package together somewhere that installs all the programs for you, again i use as example mint 17 cinnamon has all the programs i want, firefox, vlc office, brasero banshee gimp just to name a few...  For people like me it is nice to be able to install an os and not have to go about downloading 30 programs to make it ready for a customer or friend...  Pep 5 is like bare bones and having a package to install all the stuff at once would be awesome...
well it is time to relax my day is over....  Have a good night friends...
Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it...  :)
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 26, 2014, 09:16:28 pm
Quote
I Never said to remove light locker?  I just said I removed it and still had a problem...  I did however say it was a buggie that needed fixing in a respin....
not to keep going back to mint 17 but I must say they have no light locker problem at all i go into setting turn off light locker and go into power manager and choose to disable dpms and walla the machine ran here for 8 hours without going to a black screen, xset q on pep 5 install after removing light locker showed me DPMS was on and it was set 600 600 600 across the board or ten minutes...

All connected to lightlocker .. you removed lightlocker with the settings applied .. so they stayed applied.

Mint's powermanager obviously is more complex (and obviously ties together better with the lightlocker setttings) then the Xfce one we use .. but I'll bet it's also heavier.
There are a lot of things that are slightly "easier" and/or more integrated in Cinnamon or Unity .. but at the cost of weight.

lightlocker was a mistake, and will be dropped or another power manager used .. but there's little we can do about it in the current spin of Peppermint.

A respin will not help people unless they do a complete reinstall .. but I agree it needs-a-fixin :)



Quote
another suggestion i would make is maybe put a package together somewhere that installs all the programs for you, again i use as example mint 17 cinnamon has all the programs i want, firefox, vlc office, brasero banshee gimp just to name a few...  For people like me it is nice to be able to install an os and not have to go about downloading 30 programs to make it ready for a customer or friend

Can I draw your attention to the "peppermint-metapackages" in your package manager(s). We went out of our way to do exactly what you suggest .. in fact the installation slideshow draws your attention to them and we put them in a prominent position in the Software Manager, so I can't see what more we could do

We're also open to suggestions for other Peppermint-metapackages" and the software to include in them ..

But if you're after a distro with tons of pre-installed software .. I'm afraid you're in the wrong place.
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: cavy on November 26, 2014, 09:19:45 pm
Peppermint doesn't come with pre-installed software unless it's 100% necessary .. that's one of the things I like about it, I don't have to remove someone else's software choices before installing what *I* want.

So I REALLY don't want LO, VLC, gThumb, Clementine, etc. pre-installed .. even though I personally *do* install 3 of those, others would choose differently.

For me it's enough that they're available and easily installable from the package managers .. but I DON'T want them chosen for me.

Point taken, PCNetSpec..!

I do appreciate the SPARTAN nature of Peppermint, it is WHY I came back, after my distro hopping experience. My present known grapes aside.

In the same token, a convert to Linux and them choosing Peppermint as their first venture is not self evident, even though Andy rightly says there is a perfectly good install and Terminal use guide on the main website. But the learning curve is still too great for your average Micro$oft jockey. Take my sister (including her grown up family) and numerous close friends, BIOS what BIOS, whats that. You can't be doing that, you'll knacker that. It is like a medieval incantation and fear of the unknown, Linux being a form of Dark Magic only practised by witches and warlocks.

There are several ways to accommodate the novice user through to grizzled veterans, by offering several versions of Peppermint either at the ISO stage or during installation via the new or improved installer.

1. Guru Pack -  core desktop with software manager, synaptic package manager and terminal only, one widget and one icon theme, no apps or browser, for experts.

2. Girly Pack - normal peppermint desktop, for cavey.

3. Novice Pack - containing normal peppermint desktop, plus music player, dvd player, photo viewer, webcam, cd/dvd burner, cd ripper and office suite, for average user.

4. Office Pack - utilise the Peppermint office package, for business use.

5. Graphic Pack - utilise the Peppermint graphic package, graphic designers.

Just a few more ideas to flesh out the general discussion  8)
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 26, 2014, 09:51:17 pm
See my last response ... vis--vis the peppermint-metapackages, that can install a set of software at a single click.

So that's already covered .. but we're open to suggestions for more "packs", just tell us what software you think should be included in the "pack" for single selection installation.

Peppermints primary differentiator / vision / ethos is to be small light and web centric .. fully functional out of the box with minimal locally installed applications (through the use of well integrated web apps), yet for it to be super easy to install what YOU want locally if YOU choose, and to be as easily customisable to YOUR OWN tastes as possible.

I repeat, anyone that's after something else is in the wrong place .. I don't mean that nastily, but Peppermint is what it is, there are enough top heavy software laden distros out there .. Peppermint has it's own web centric vision and niche, we make no secret of this.

It's not Peppermints goal to be "just another buntu" .. we have our own unique vision, we're open to suggestions for improvement where it fits in with that ethos but please stop suggesting we add tons of pre-installed stuff .. that's just NOT "Peppermint" ;)



Not sure what you mean by "BIOS" .. there is nothing specific to Peppermint that would have you entering the BIOS ?
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: cavy on November 27, 2014, 07:33:55 am
Not sure what you mean by "BIOS" .. there is nothing specific to Peppermint that would have you entering the BIOS ?

Referring to my sister and friends who I have encouraged to make the leap of faith and become Linux users, I explain they will have make minor adjustments to their BIOS,  disable secure boot, place on legacy mode/CMOS etc, their  eyes glaze over.  The Linux dark magic only practised by witches and warlocks.

When I converted, if I hadn't received help about BIOS settings, I would have never got past this first hurdle, with my Samsung, it wouldn't accept a Linux installation, as it stood with secure boot and other window related BIOS settings.

Got the message about adding, only for metapackages  :D

Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: emegra on November 27, 2014, 12:55:12 pm
I don't think bundling extra software is in line with the ethos of Peppermint so long as we make it easy to install the software each individual user wants, in fact installing the software after installation is the fun part for me

but I think what ever software is bundled should work out of the box or simply not be there, a perfect example would be Guayadeque because in my experience installing various versions of Peppermint I've never got it to work at least not satisfactorily,

Any time I've tried to use it I've been told I need some unspecified gstreamer plugin and when I go to look for it I find there's 3 possibilities, one good one bad and one ugly, surely we can come up with a music player that just works and if not it would be better not to have one at all and I think that should apply to any software bundled with Peppermint


Graeme



Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: 10i on November 27, 2014, 02:31:47 pm
I like Peppermint and have enjoyed it for a while now.

I would like to see something like what Puppy Linux had (a while back, not sure if it still has it now). After installation it opens a web page, that was stored locally during installation. This page contains some getting started info.

Maybe it could mention how to get wifi working and a few other FAQ.

Just a suggestion, what do you think?
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 27, 2014, 05:06:08 pm
@cavy

Ahh, UEFI/Secure boot .. I get ya :)



@emegra

guyaduyayadddayaddadequeueue .. I agree :)



@10i

Great idea .. IIRC, we did look at a welcome screen for Peppermint 4, but never got around to it. I like the locally stored "web page" idea, and it'd be very simple to implement :)
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 27, 2014, 05:48:02 pm
Quote
"Quick launch" icons .. erm, as with pre-installed software, I personally don't want them, indeed I'd do away with the application launch bar panel applet altogether, the logout button which is the only reason it's loaded in the first place is duplicated in the menu.  -- PCNetSpec

PCNetSpec, do you prefer desktop icons to using the panel applet?  I began using the panel applet (the second launch bar application) after I discovered its existence.  I thought it would use fewer system resources than Plank -- a dock I like very much.

perknh

Sorry perknh, I must have missed that posting  :-[

I'm "old school" where desktop layout/workflow is concerned, I use my desktop for everything .. often used Apps get a desktop icon, and everything else gets either downloaded or created there .. then when it starts to fill up, I tidy stuff away to the "best fit" directories in my home folder for storage (or delete them).
Less used stuff just gets fired up from the menu.

In fact, very windows like .. the "desktop metaphor" was solved for me at Win95 <--> Win7 (type layouts .. ie. panel/taskbar, menu bottom right, and desktop icons) .. everything after that seems to over complicate things. If it aint broke.......

The bang everyting on my desktop till it's too much of a messs to get anything else done .. then have a tidy up, aka. sweeping it under the carpet never to be seen again  .. probably explains the state of my workplace too, but it works for me  :o
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: perknh on November 27, 2014, 08:58:03 pm
Thank you, PCNetSpec,

I was wondering if there was a new way of getting into a program -- that's all!

I've got about 10 tools I use all of the time:  Chrome, Skype, Software Updater, Synaptic Package Manager, Calculator, Disks, File Manager, and the Terminal -- and that's about it.  For the rare times I use something else, I go to the menu and look for it.  I also have kept the Desktop Pager, even if I always forget to use it!  I enjoy looking at desktop art, or Bing photos, set as wallpaper, so this is probably why I find the Application Launch Bar so appealing. 

When I read that the Application Launch Bar may, or will, be going away one day, I was wondering how you would be dealing with that.

Thank you for posting.  ;) 

Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: 10i on November 29, 2014, 10:02:44 am
Thanks @PCNetSpec, I look forward to Peppermint having a bright future :)
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: emegra on December 11, 2014, 03:14:41 pm
Recently I've been messing around with Tahrpup on an old laptop and I have to give huge credit to the Puppy team for what they've achieved Puppy is truly a remarkable distro and transformed what was only any use as a door stop into a very usable laptop, that said it's not something I would run on my main PC but there is one or two things I noticed  about Puppy I think Peppermint could benefit from so one that comes to mind is the option to "send to wallpaper containing folder" when you right click on an image file.

I for one like to change wallpaper a lot and like to keep them in one location, I understand this is probably more easily done in Puppy due to running in root but is there anyway it can be implemented in Peppermint and would it be worth the effort



Graeme
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 12, 2014, 04:11:13 pm
Suppose it would be easy enough to add a right-click option using a "file manager action" script.

If it's to copy it to /usr/share/peppermint/wallpapers .. it'd need to prompt for a password though.

We already have the option to store the pic wherever you want, then right click it and "Set as wallpaper"
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: emegra on December 12, 2014, 05:17:24 pm
Quote
If it's to copy it to /usr/share/peppermint/wallpapers .. it'd need to prompt for a password though.

That would still be easier than what we have now because unless there's something I'm not understanding to place an image file in /usr/share/peppermint/wallpapers we have to right click and copy the file then navigate through 4 locations and at one point right click open as root and input the password then paste the file a total of 10 mouse clicks + password

if we had your action script then it would just take right click, copy to wallpaper location, input password a total of 2 mouse clicks + password




But having given it some more thought you're right there's really not much benefit, what's so difficult about creating a Wallpapers folder in the Pictures folder and storing the wallpapers there (no password required) , I just thought when I saw it in Puppy it was a neat little feature



Graeme





Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 12, 2014, 06:44:48 pm
Yup, wallpapers tend to be user specific (on a multi user system you wouldn't want every user bunging them all in the same system wide folder), so really you should have them in your home folder somewhere .. then it's simply a matter of right-clicking and setting as your wallpaper.
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: emegra on December 16, 2014, 03:08:12 pm
Another thought I've had for a future release is to include Pysiogame to the kids edutainment pack here's the Sourceforge page http://sourceforge.net/projects/pysiogame/ (http://sourceforge.net/projects/pysiogame/)

I actually found this by accident and installed it to my Grand-Daughters PC and as far as I can see it's an excellent program for children in many way as good as gcompris it has a bright colourful interface and tons of educational activities and it's licensed under the GPL

 I think it would make a fantastic addition to the edutainment pack


Graeme
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 16, 2014, 05:31:19 pm
Which version did you installl ?

the version from sourceforge (2.40 tarball) ?

or the version from the repos (1.30 deb ?

it would be trivial to add the version from the repos to the peppermint-edutainment-pack metapackage .. so I'm game for that :)
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: emegra on December 16, 2014, 05:36:00 pm
I just installed it from the repos  v.1.30.811





Graeme
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 16, 2014, 05:47:55 pm
I'm gonna guess the version from sourceforge will be more functional .. there's a big difference in package size

14MB source tarball

as opposed to the repos 3MB deb .. but this looks like it'd be fairly easy to package.

I'll take a looksee at them both .. cheers for the heads up.
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: emegra on December 16, 2014, 05:52:57 pm
That's a huge difference

If your able to package it i would appreciate a chance to install it, alternatively maybe you could help me compile it because I've never done that before :)



Graeme
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 16, 2014, 06:28:11 pm
it doesn't actually require compiling .. just unpacking and a menu item creating

and python-pygame and espeak installing.

But to tell the truth I can't see much difference besides a few more config options .. in fact I think the repos version is better, so I don't know where the extra file size is coming from  :-\

[EDIT]

The file size difference is coming from more artwork, so I'm guessing there's more options in the "visual" type games.

I can help you install 2.40 if you want ? .. you can even have both installed at the same time.
(then maybe you can tell me what the differences are)
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: imiolek.i on December 17, 2014, 05:36:28 pm
The additional size comes from the images from art4apps - its 589 images used in one game that teaches 589 words in 12 categories - available under language/word builders, but these are not translated to all languages so if you are not using English (or Polish), you are not likely to notice a difference since these are not displayed if not translated.

The game is being rebuilt again, activities are still looking pretty much the same, but have been moved around, so they are grouped in categories better, also an attempt has been made to group activities by age, so very hard activities are not shown to preschoolers, the menu has also been slightly changed, it's not as colourful as it used to be, not sure if it's good or bad thing.

The new version is waiting to be released as soon as all translations are completed. This version is fully working but some things are still not translated,  available at: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzzRSdFJhjQ8NHBhYTZOTGpSZE0&usp=sharing#list

You use it the same way as the one from sourceforge, still python-pygame and espeak packages are required. After installing the required soft you can unpack the file and double click the pysiogame.py file (mark as executable if not working). Also more on manual "installing" available here: http://www.pysiogame.net/installation/
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 17, 2014, 06:39:01 pm
Hi imiolek.i and welcome to the forum :)

Thanks for the inside info .. always good to hear straight from the horses mouth as it were ;)

So far I'm loving what I'm seeing, so thanks for the link to 3.14, I'll give it a spin with an eye to packaging it for Peppermint and adding it to our edutainment metapackage (for Peppermint 6) if it's OK with Shane and Kendall...

Great to see younger kids being given the attention they deserve with good solid fun and educational software, and that you're using python so supporting multiple platforms too .. keep up the terrific work.
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: emegra on December 18, 2014, 01:47:41 am
Hi imiolek.i

Thanks for the inside information and thanks so much for the program, it looks amazing  I have it installed on my 8 year old Grand-Daughters PC, she loves playing the activities in gcompris and I know she's gonna love playing the activities in pysiogame, I also have it installed on a 7 year old boys laptop I built for a friend recently

I can't express how much I appreciate your work and I'd be happy to provide you with any feedback if you wish

Keep up the good work and many thanks



Graeme
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: imiolek.i on December 18, 2014, 02:58:07 am
Hi again,
Thanks everyone for the kind words about this application.

@PCNetSpec thank you for your interest in adding this soft to the Peppermint. After Christmas I'll try to see if Miriam could update the package for Debian also, so it might be easier for you to go of that one, not sure, unfortunately I'm not that familiar with all the packaging stuff. As to it being multi-platform, it started as a game for Linux anyway :)

@emegra - I'm glad you find it useful (for the kids), most of the activities may be a bit too easy though for 8 years old girl. I'd be more than happy to receive any feedback that could improve this program.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Thoughts for future releases
Post by: AndyInMokum on December 18, 2014, 03:26:47 am
Hi imiolek.i, love it.  A Polish friend of mine is coming to my house today for coffee.  I'm sure his 7 year old daughter will find this awesome   8).  In python too.  I really hope it is included by default in Peppermint Six - really well done  ;)!!