Peppermint OS

General => Development => Topic started by: az2020 on July 11, 2020, 08:25:32 am

Title: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: az2020 on July 11, 2020, 08:25:32 am
I'm glad to see the Peppermint community is thriving. I'm looking forward to Peppermint 11 (which is why I dropped by).

However, I noticed the peppermintos.com web site now uses scrolljacking. This is the sort of thing you'd expect from some boutique, show-offy, "what I did for the summer" web site -- not a Linux distro where people are aware of proper boundaries & accessibility standards (not intruding on a person's mouse/scroll settings; enabling access -- not controlling it. That kind of interference is always about "look at me, I'm so clever with my website design." It has *nothing* to do with the visitor's experience. If it were a nice thing to do for visitors, there wouldn't be such massive dislike for the practice (https://www.reddit.com/r/web_design/comments/6d49sj/psa_dont_fuck_with_the_default_scroll_speed_on_a/).).

I hope you guys will consider this feedback. Don't put visitors on "ice" with slippery scroll, causing them to pause and think about how they have to use their mouse. There's no reason for it. I know it's a small thing, and people can get over it. But, I'm asking you guys to consider whether it makes any sense at all. Most people (especially the types to use Linux) find it unfriendly.

Thank you, and I hope Peppermint keeps going! (I hope this was the right place to voice my rant/plea about site design.).
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: VinDSL on July 11, 2020, 12:36:27 pm
Interesting. I never noticed that before; but, you're right.

I don't use 'scroll bars', unless I have to. I'm a 'scroll wheel' fanboi. Plus, I turn off gimmicks like 'smooth scrolling', et cetera.

When I scroll up/down the main website, using the 'scroll wheel' on my mouse, it overshoots the lines, e.g. it moves 2-3 lines instead of 1. It's like flicking a cell phone screen, with my finger, and it just keeps scrolling. It's irritating as fek!   >:(

Perhaps it's a WordPress bug?!?!

Thx for bringing it to our attention...
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: rjm65 on July 11, 2020, 12:40:10 pm
I guess i am like you VinDSL, because I can't even find what he is talking about...  I use my mouse wheel as well....    :-)
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: az2020 on July 11, 2020, 12:58:42 pm
When I scroll up/down the main website, using the 'scroll wheel' on my mouse, it overshoots the lines, e.g. it moves 2-3 lines instead of 1. It's like flicking a cell phone screen, with my finger, and it just keeps scrolling. It's irritating as fek!   >:(

Thank you for understanding.  I'm just really sensitive to that stuff because Lubuntu's new LXQt file manager has that zoom-zoom juice. I used LXDE for years and loved it. When I switched to the new Qt, it's impossible to scroll thumbnails. You get 10:1 scrolling (compared to what you're used to with line-by-line scrolling). I just used KDE the past 6 months and its Dolphin file manager has the same thing.

I don't understand why that's not a huge issue for people. I can barely use those implementations. I have to grab the side scrollbar when browsing thumbnails. (One notch on my scroll wheel and it's like a page of thumbnails scrolls by. It's not configurable either.).

Maybe it's just me. But, when I saw it on the web site, my detector went off. :) I'm glad I was at least understood and my view accommodated. I was afraid it would turn into "you're too picky."

I guess i am like you VinDSL, because I can't even find what he is talking about...  I use my mouse wheel as well....    :-)

Open a few tabs (Google, Yahoo, DSLReports, YouTube, Gmail, DistroWatch, [whatever]). Then switch from tab to tab; scroll up/down using your mouse wheel. The peppermintos.com's pages are the only ones with some "juice."

It's disorienting to me. ("Wait, what just happened?"). It's like stepping onto ice. It's slippery scrolling. It's popular among web designers (like the "blink" tag was back in 1997). It's "cool." But, when all you want to do is visit a site without much drama, it's annoying AF. Suddenly someone knows better about your mouse than you do.

I'm sure there are differences of opinion about this. (If there weren't, this hijack wouldn't exist.). I usually just ignore stuff like that, and never visit the site again. But, being a Linux site where people are very much advocates of boundaries and not forcing anything onto others, I thought I should comment. I'm sorry if I've been too opinionated.


Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: VinDSL on July 11, 2020, 01:09:34 pm
I found the 'problem'. A "listening event" in the theme, called "wheel" is causing it.

When I remove that element locally (using the console in Opera) the screens scroll normally; one line at a time.

Perhaps Joe can haxor the theme and remove it permanently...   ;)

EDIT

It's buried in here: https://peppermintos.com/wp-content/cache/wpo-minify/1594273685/assets/wpo-minify-footer-9344244f.min.js
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: VinDSL on July 11, 2020, 01:11:52 pm
I guess i am like you VinDSL, because I can't even find what he is talking about...  I use my mouse wheel as well....    :-)

What browser are you using?  I *think* it's a Chromium (and company) thing...


Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: Slim.Fatz on July 11, 2020, 01:15:01 pm
I only use Firefox (sometimes Brave) and I have no idea what the problem is. Every site I go to behaves the same way when I use my scroll-wheel -- no jumping or whatever it is that is so annoying.  :-\

-- Slim
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: az2020 on July 11, 2020, 01:16:25 pm
I guess i am like you VinDSL, because I can't even find what he is talking about...  I use my mouse wheel as well....    :-)

What browser are you using?  I *think* it's a Chromium (and company) thing...

You could be right. I didn't think of that. I'm using Chrome.
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: VinDSL on July 11, 2020, 02:13:00 pm
If it were a nice thing to do for visitors, there wouldn't be such massive dislike for the practice (https://www.reddit.com/r/web_design/comments/6d49sj/psa_dont_fuck_with_the_default_scroll_speed_on_a/).).

Speaking of Reddit, I'll have to peruse that community. I'm always finding new spots over there to push PM   :)

I recently discovered a 'Conkyporn' community, and snuck in a plug for Peppermint:
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/Conkyporn/comments/h8p9mj/vindsl_conky_script_peppermint_linux_os/

But, I digress...
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: rjm65 on July 11, 2020, 03:06:31 pm
Firefox of course, and my wheel scrolls one line at a time, no juice as the op is claiming...   
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: az2020 on July 11, 2020, 04:23:16 pm
Firefox of course, and my wheel scrolls one line at a time, no juice as the op is claiming...

Claiming is a strong word. (wink). I'm definitely seeing it.

I take your point that Firefox would be a better choice if I opposed intrusion. (But, just because Google -- seated at the left hand of Satan -- makes it easy to screw with my mouse, why choose to do that?).

Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: rjm65 on July 12, 2020, 06:06:47 am
obviously this is a google chrome issue, and since i never used google chrome, or any of its Linux counterparts, I am guessing you will have to consult with someone who has, for I am no use to you in solving your problem....
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: az2020 on July 12, 2020, 08:27:17 am
obviously this is a google chrome issue, ... for I am no use to you in solving your problem....

I understand. That's a valid point. However, why is the site serving javascript to do something unadviseable? Especially when no other sites are doing it? (Isn't that a valid point too?).

I use Chrome because Firefox has always seemed a little slower/bloated. I know Chrome brings other problems with it (proximity to Satan, for example). I totally agree that I brought this on myself by using Chrome. But, why take advantage of something unadviseable with Chrome (when nobody else is)? Wouldn't the peppermintos.com site be better for not doing that?
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: VinDSL on July 12, 2020, 10:08:44 am
This takes care of the mouse wheel event hijacking 'problem' in Opera. It provides 'complete inheritance', e.g. it disables JavaScript on every Peppermint OS web page - main site & the forums.

I assume every Chromium-based browser supports this function, although it might be located in a different spot. Opera is my 'daily driver', plus I use Chromium for bots. If one is using another Chromium-based browser, they'll need to test it for themselves.   ;)

I've emboldened the text, in order to make it easier to read...


(http://vindsl.com/images/Opera Snapshot_2020-07-12_094448_settings.png)
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: az2020 on July 12, 2020, 10:44:26 am
This takes care of the mouse wheel event hijacking 'problem' in Opera.

Thanks, that seems a bit broad (turning off all javascript. That causes the menu not to work (among other things), there's no fallback for no javascript. Which begs the fundamental question: why make visitors do that (even think about it) when there's no reason to tamper with their mouse (even if they did invite trouble using Google Chrome).

I noticed you put "problem" in quotes, suggesting it's debatable? I got the impression from a previous reply that it wasn't debatable.

Anyway, if you guys don't think it's a problem (or a bad idea, etc), that's fine with me. It's certainly not a big problem. It's just something that is known to be bad netiquette. I wanted to bring that to the community's attention. I've done that, so I'll leave it at that.

FWIW: It sounded at one point like WordPress was being blamed. But, I'm sure I visit a lot of WP sites and haven't noticed this. It's pretty rare to have my mouse/scroll hijacked. I've never used WP. I suspect it's something configurable (simply because I never see this with what I assume must be a fair amount of WP sites I've visited without knowing.).

To summarize: It's widely considered a bad practice. Making someone disable javascript to stop the bad practice seems like the long road there. Especially when that breaks other (potentially essential) functionality which has no accessibility fallback for javascript-less visitors.

That's all I'll say if you guys think it's not a problem (or Google Chrome users need to be punished, which we do.). It seems more of a principle thing. If there are different principles, then no reason going back and forth about that as if it's personal to "win."

Good luck with 11.
Title: Re: Website "slick" scrolling (mouse hijacking)
Post by: VinDSL on July 12, 2020, 11:22:10 am
This takes care of the mouse wheel event hijacking 'problem' in Opera.

I noticed you put "problem" in quotes, suggesting it's debatable? I got the impression from a previous reply that it wasn't debatable.

I used single quotes ('...') not double quotes ("...") but that's fodder for another discussion.  :)