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General => GNU/Linux Discussion => Topic started by: VinDSL on March 29, 2019, 04:52:36 pm

Title: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: VinDSL on March 29, 2019, 04:52:36 pm
Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
By Jason Evangelho, Contributor - Forbes, 29-Mar-2019

Quote
The bottom line is that Windows has too many potential attack points, most of which are not directly overseen by the very company who develops the operating system. The vast majority of the code cannot be audited by the community. There are less checks and balances in place to ensure that these attacks are prevented. After seeing how Ubuntu and various other Linux distributions ensure the security of their users, the Microsoft Windows approach starts to seem a lot less sane.

Good read: https://goo.gl/xGAHmH
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: christianvl on March 29, 2019, 05:31:49 pm
I've heard that on Linux Unplugged. It looks like they've had two certificates stolen (that's how I've understood it, ok?), one is already revoked, the second one was still valid! 
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 29, 2019, 08:58:47 pm
I can't help but think of the push to entice proprietary software via snaps/flatpaks.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: scifidude79 on March 29, 2019, 10:27:50 pm
I can't help but think of the push to entice proprietary software via snaps/flatpaks.

I was thinking the same thing while reading that. Those actually undermine the security that the author of that excellently written article loves as we do.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: pin on March 30, 2019, 07:12:39 am
snaps or flatpaks won't exist on my systems, even If that means dropping Peppermint  :'(
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: perknh on March 30, 2019, 08:49:48 am
snaps or flatpaks won't exist on my systems, even If that means dropping Peppermint  :'(

There's no need to drop Peppermint.  My new solution to this problem is to run two OSs -- Linux Peppermint OS and Windows.  I'm using Windows for Skype.  I've decided to stop using Snaps and Flatpaks any longer within GNU/Linux.  I never much liked the idea of WINE.  I've concluded I don't like Snaps and Flatpaks much either.  These programs muddy the nice clean waters of GNU/Linux.

I'm writing right now from Windows since I'm about to launch Skype.  It's strange over here in Windows Land.  I can't tighten up Windows 10 as well as I can Peppermint.  Remember, over here you need an AV.  And I haven't been able to successfully add Stubby to Windows 10, though they say you can do so.  Also the uBlock Origin app in Edge browser is by someone called Nik Rolls.  It's called uBlock-Edge at GitHub forked from gorhill/uBlock, but I'm shocked they're able to get away with calling it uBlock Origin in the Microsoft Store.  I thought the word Origin was what distinguished Raymond Hill's uBlock from the others.

Overall I think Windows is better than it used to be back in the Windows Vista days, but it's still a far cry from good.  I don't thing one can move from Windows to a good Linux distribution and then ever comfortably return to Windows.  Once your eyes are opened it's tough to go back.  That said, I'm going to try running Skype from Windows instead of using a Snap or a Flatpak within any Linux distribution. ;)


 
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: scifidude79 on March 30, 2019, 09:09:52 am
snaps or flatpaks won't exist on my systems, even If that means dropping Peppermint  :'(

I don't see why you'd have to drop Peppermint. As far as I know, there's no plans to ever include them as part of the base OS. All we have is support for people to optionally install them.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: pin on March 30, 2019, 10:46:13 am
@perknh
Edge  :-[  :-[
Why don't you install Firefox?!
I have to use windows at work, but I don't touch edge... made sure it only started once, and it was already one time too many  ;)

@scifidude79
Peppermint is Ubuntu based, so that will depend on Ubuntu.
Unless, PCNetSpec has plans to move the base, which I don't think he does. So, If Ubuntu defaults to snaps... what would we do?
I know, so far is just as you said and, so far I'm fine with it  :)
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: perknh on March 30, 2019, 11:45:51 am
@perknh
Edge  :-[  :-[
Why don't you install Firefox?!
I have to use windows at work, but I don't touch edge... made sure it only started once, and it was already one time too many  ;)

@scifidude79
Peppermint is Ubuntu based, so that will depend on Ubuntu.
Unless, PCNetSpec has plans to move the base, which I don't think he does. So, If Ubuntu defaults to snaps... what would we do?
I know, so far is just as you said and, so far I'm fine with it  :)

Hi pin,

I did -- along with Peppermint's Start Page (perknh edition, of course) and Peppermint's DDG search engine!  I was just checking it out in order to see if it had been Chromeified yet -- which is supposed to happen sometime this year.  But no, Edge hasn't be Chromeified yet.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 30, 2019, 07:31:39 pm
snaps or flatpaks won't exist on my systems, even If that means dropping Peppermint  :'(

Why would it mean dropping Peppermint ?

If upstream switch to snaps for necessary core functionality and there's no working around it, we'll rebase (if by then there's any base without them, and if not you'll likely see a Peppermint BSD because I'd expect a LOT of developers switch too and BSD come on by leaps and bounds).

That said, AFAIK upstream aren't planning on switching core functionality to snaps .. at least not in the short term.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: scifidude79 on March 30, 2019, 07:59:10 pm
If upstream switch to snaps for necessary functionality and there's no working around it, we'll rebase (if by then there's any base without them, and if not you'll likely see a Peppermint BSD because I'd expect a LOT of developers switch too and BSD come on by leaps and bounds).

Like I said, no need to switch. I know you well enough to know that would be your answer on the matter, but I didn't want to speak for you. :)

I've been with Peppermint since version 1 and I'll go along with whatever base distribution you switch to. I don't imagine every independent Linux distribution will switch to Snaps and Flaps (yes, I spelled it that way on purpose.) There will always be ones that will be like: "Nope."

I actually wonder how Debian feels about the matter. No matter how independent they claim to be, Ubuntu is still largely based on Debian, and they would actually have to go even more independent if Debian doesn't switch.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: VinDSL on March 30, 2019, 08:08:43 pm
If upstream switches to snaps [...] you'll likely see a Peppermint BSD [...]

Ooh! Ooh! I'm getting a woody  ;D


Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 30, 2019, 10:16:55 pm
Brain don't, don't, don't .. damnit, now I've gotta un-think that image ::) :-X
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: christianvl on March 30, 2019, 10:51:50 pm
I believe that in the long-term Ubuntu will be all about snaps. They're putting too much time and effort on it and it makes sense as it looks like it's easier to maintain. Fedora is the first on that path and well probably see in the near future silverblue taking the place of the regular release.

It will be something like systemd. Many will argue against, some will work with forks using regular repositories but most will just go with the default.

Will I use it? Yes, if I have to, just like installing proprietary drivers on my computer. I don't like, I know it's a deal with the devil, but it's the easiest way to get work done.

BTW, snaps even have the advantage to show that a software came from a registered and trusted developer (for example, the Plex snap comes from the plex developers). There's no such a thing for flatpacks.

Canonical will improve snaps and soon we will all be cornered.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 30, 2019, 11:15:05 pm
Isn't it funny, Microsoft and Apple have seen the benefit of and moved towards curated 'app stores' .. and Linux is now headed the other way into an uncoordinated proprietary free for all where we have to simply 'trust' software developers because we no longer insist they make the source code available for  peer review ???

Anyone else see something wrong with this picture ?



I haven't a problem with the technology behind snaps/flatpaks/other universal package formats, just with the thinking behind them .. snaps would be fine if the thinking behind them wasn't directly opposed to "make the source available or you can't get in" .. they are designed to tempt proprietary software into Linux, but they're doing it at the expense of peer reviewed security.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: scifidude79 on March 31, 2019, 12:06:08 am
Anyone else see something wrong with this picture ?

Yes.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: pin on March 31, 2019, 03:02:30 am
@PCNetSpec
That was really good to know  :-*
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: pin on March 31, 2019, 03:23:52 am
BTW, snaps even have the advantage to show that a software came from a registered and trusted developer (for example, the Plex snap comes from the plex developers). There's no such a thing for flatpacks.

Canonical will improve snaps and soon we will all be cornered.

Who 'labels' the dev 'trusted' and why?

Your pick  ;)

I won't use it!
I'm already running BSD, just in case  ;) ...and because it has no systemd!
Actually, it doesn't NEED work arounds. Linux distros running without systemd need quite some engineering.
Look what a mess, systemd did  :o

But, right now I'm happy with PCNetSpec answer  :D
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 31, 2019, 08:19:59 am
BTW, snaps even have the advantage to show that a software came from a registered and trusted developer (for example, the Plex snap comes from the plex developers).

So do .deb's (digital signing), .debs also insist that to get into the default repos (or be compiled on launchpad for PPA's) the source code MUST be available for peer review and buildable against included (and therefore themselves peer reviewable) libraries.

From what I gather the plan is for snaps not to make this insistence .. that's the part I disagree with, not the technology itself.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: stevesveryown on April 04, 2019, 12:39:34 pm
I must had foresight, I removed the Asus updater from my wife and son's sytems.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: scifidude79 on April 04, 2019, 06:06:39 pm
I must had foresight, I removed the Asus updater from my wife and son's sytems.

Good call. It sounds like something that's dangerous to have on there, from reading that article.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 05, 2019, 06:45:42 am
Bloatware ::)
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: scifidude79 on April 05, 2019, 07:07:43 am
Bloatware ::)

That too. I bought an ASUS budget laptop once that had a bunch of utilities preinstalled to speed it up. All they did was slow it down. Taking them off sped it up a lot. Switching to Peppermint sped it up a lot more.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 05, 2019, 07:45:17 am
ASUS have always been one of the worse bloatware offenders.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: VinDSL on April 05, 2019, 03:54:25 pm
I don't know about nowadays, but Toshiba used to be the worst.

Legend has it, that Toshiba made more money off installing the cruft than the machines themselves.

Around 2008, I was in a crunch and needed a laptop, like immediately. So, I went to Best Buys and bought a new Toshiba.

The salesman asked if I'd like to have their service department remove the 'ad-ware'. He said it cost $30,00 USD.

I asked how long it takes, He said, about 30 minutes. I said, no, that's okay. I'm in a hurry, and I'll do it myself.

Three (3) days later, I finally got the last of the cruft purged from my shiny new lappy.

If I'd known what was involved, I would have gladly paid the $30 ransom, with a kiss.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 05, 2019, 05:23:09 pm
I dunno why the OEM's don't offer that...

Option 1 - $30 cheaper because it's subsidised by ad-ware bloat.

Option 2 - Full price.

Then instead of the shop getting the money for removal, the OEM would get it (for not putting it on in the first place) .. and I'm fairly sure customers would respond well to the honesty.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: scifidude79 on April 05, 2019, 05:55:24 pm
Yeah, I heard back in the day that Toshiba was bad at bloatware. HP and Compaq (even before HP bought them) were bad for bloatware too. I'd imagine HP still is. I guess those companies pay them to install all that crap on there. ::)
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: peppycrab on April 05, 2019, 08:46:37 pm
I have a several-yeat-old Toshiba that I  inherited from my late Father, Which bloatware programs should I do away with?
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: VinDSL on April 05, 2019, 08:54:53 pm
I have a several-yeat-old Toshiba that I  inherited from my late Father, Which bloatware programs should I do away with?

My Toshiba came with Vista. I'm still running it... LoL  ;D


(http://vindsl.com/images/vista_update_mar_2019.png)


If you're running winders, you should get rid of all the bloatware.

The only difference between winders and a virus is... a virus works every time.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: scifidude79 on April 05, 2019, 11:10:52 pm
If you're planning to use Windows, a fresh install using regular Microsoft installation media is the best. With most of those older computers, they have the activation code for that copy of Windows on the bottom. Once you install the OS, you'll just have to install any needed drivers and updates, and any software you want, and the computer should run faster just because you're running an OTB copy of Windows with none of the "extras" that those OEMs like to install.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 06, 2019, 12:33:25 pm
I have a several-yeat-old Toshiba that I  inherited from my late Father, Which bloatware programs should I do away with?

ALL OF IT ;))
(possibly including Windows)

Basically anything that starts with "Toshiba" and anything that asks for a subscription such as Norton/McAfee/M$ Office/etc., but that's likely not all the crapware they bung on, some of it will be buried deep.

As scifidude79 suggests, often the easiest way is a nuke and pave.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: christianvl on April 06, 2019, 12:53:09 pm
This also reminds me of the Lenovos's superfish "fiasco".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish

These companies... They're not only damaging the user experience of their products, sometimes they're selling computers with pre installed viruses.

If possible, stay away from windows. Even if you can get it installed to a bearable use, you'll have a hard time to keep it secure and updated.
Title: Re: Asus Just Gave You 1 Million Reasons To Switch From Windows To Linux
Post by: perknh on April 09, 2019, 02:10:16 pm
@peppycrab

I have a several-yeat-old Toshiba that I  inherited from my late Father, Which bloatware programs should I do away with?

ALL OF IT ;))
(possibly including Windows)

Basically anything that starts with "Toshiba" and anything that asks for a subscription such as Norton/McAfee/M$ Office/etc., but that's likely not all the crapware they bung on, some of it will be buried deep.

As scifidude79 suggests, often the easiest way is a nuke and pave.

You can get rid of Toshiba's bloatware if you reinstall Windows 10 without Toshiba's help.  I used the Windows 10 installation media tool after reading this (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianmorris/2018/01/26/how-to-get-windows-10-for-free-in-2018/#7f20e5ab5145) article from Forbes.  I have one installation of Windows 10 running on a Toshiba Satellite C70-A, and I installed it locally without using a Microsoft account.  All that said, Windows 10 still tried to install lots of bloatware on the my computer.  So now whenever I see a new program in the Windows 10 menu, I uninstall it.  That's how I get rid of the bloatware in Windows 10. 

I run Peppermint 9 off an external hard drive attached to my Toshiba Satellite laptop.  It's set to boot Peppermint first, of course! ;)