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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: VinDSL on June 17, 2017, 03:26:45 pm

Title: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: VinDSL on June 17, 2017, 03:26:45 pm
Dell now sells 7 different Ubuntu-powered premium laptops (and an all-in-one desktop)

Quote
Dell is one of the few major PC makers that offers high-end laptops with GNU/Linux software as an alternative to Windows. 5 years after the company launched Project Sputnik to gauge interest in a version of the Dell XPS 13 with Ubuntu software, Dell now sells 7 different laptop models with Canonical’s popular Linux distribution.

There’s also a 27 inch all-in-one desktop option.


SOURCE:  https://goo.gl/DmfZba
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 17, 2017, 03:32:24 pm
Why is it ever only "premium" models ?

And I'm betting they're not for sale in the UK
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: The PoorGuy on June 17, 2017, 04:13:46 pm
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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: pin on June 17, 2017, 04:34:54 pm
That's kind of cool...
But, I would like to be able to buy a PC with no OS installed...and at a comparable price to the version shipping with micro$oft windows. That would be Great! I know that in some countries you can get it, but I don't know if price is comparable?! What I know is that, where I live I can't get it.


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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: VinDSL on June 17, 2017, 05:20:07 pm
Why is it ever only "premium" models ?

Maybe it's because only "premium" clients use Linux ...  ;)
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 17, 2017, 05:47:47 pm
I just find it odd that Linux could be used to make laptops cheaper .. instead it's only ever put on expensive models :-\
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: The PoorGuy on June 17, 2017, 06:44:14 pm
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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: VinDSL on June 17, 2017, 06:45:05 pm
I just find it odd that Linux could be used to make laptops cheaper .. instead it's only ever put on expensive models :-\

The link, in the article, does a pretty good job of explaining their rationale:  https://goo.gl/Hjmjk3

Project Sputnik: crazy idea to community driven developer systems

Basically, these are high-end machines, made by the dev community, for the dev community ...   ;)
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: VinDSL on June 17, 2017, 06:57:44 pm

I'll say it again.

Linux The Smart Choice For Smart People. Windows For Everyone Else.  :P

Well said !

I've been dual-booting my 'Road Warrior 2', since the advent of Creators.  Wasn't interested in winders after W2K Pro.

It took me a while to match the look n' feel of the Peppermint Dark Theme, but they are amazingly similar now - and I mean that in a good way.

I don't use '10' for anything private or important - mostly just the Office 2016 Suite.  It's totally useless for developing software, maintaining websites, etc.

That's probably why there's a demand for Linux on high-end Dell machines.

I'd be interested to find out how many of these devs are dual-booting with winders, and which version they are running.
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: The PoorGuy on June 17, 2017, 07:02:02 pm
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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: The PoorGuy on June 17, 2017, 07:21:32 pm
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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: VinDSL on June 17, 2017, 07:22:40 pm
Devs can afford them ...

Software Developer Salary

SOURCE:  https://goo.gl/rrWhhG

... even if they have to pay for them, out of pocket.

Most likely, their employers lease these machines from Dell, on a 3-year program.

When these models come back off-lease, that's the time to snap one up on the Dell Refurb site, for pennies on the dollar with a 50% off promo code.

I'll be searching for one in 2020.   ;)

Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: VinDSL on June 17, 2017, 07:28:52 pm
I have nothing against Windows and believe that people should use what they are most comfortable with.

Agreed !

I H-A-T-E Microsoft in general, and winders in particular, but ...

That's what all the morons I deal with use, and it's a PITA to collaborate with them.  Even then, I refused to use XP-W8.

'10' is different.  It doesn't get the gag reflex going in me, like their other products, but they'll probably mess it up too.   ::)
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: mac on June 17, 2017, 07:38:53 pm
... but they'll probably mess it up too.   ::)
That would be the safe bet! :D
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: The PoorGuy on June 17, 2017, 08:07:14 pm
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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: The PoorGuy on June 17, 2017, 08:12:47 pm
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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: VinDSL on June 17, 2017, 11:03:39 pm
People love their Windows and most will never change however will always complain when it isn't working 100%.

Heh !  Yeah, they put up with it until they don't, then buy a Mac and gloat.   ;D
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: The PoorGuy on June 18, 2017, 01:39:07 am
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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: scifidude79 on June 18, 2017, 09:23:54 am
This again.  As PCNetSpec said, it's never offered on the Home laptops, even though it would perform better on those than Windows.  The least expensive one is the XPS 13 Developer Edition, which is $850.
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 18, 2017, 08:17:55 pm
I have nothing against Windows and believe that people should use what they are most comfortable with.

I can agree only with the second half of that statement :)
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: The PoorGuy on June 18, 2017, 09:49:34 pm
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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 18, 2017, 09:56:56 pm
I don't "despise" it, and you're right people should use it if that's what they're most comfortable with and are not looking to change. Ramming Linux down a happy Windows users throat is nearly always counter-productive.

But saying "I don't despise it", or that people should stick with it unless they WANT to change is not the same as saying "I have nothing against it" .. I have plenty "against it" .. in the same way as the damn OS seems to have something against me, so it's only fair :))
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: The PoorGuy on June 18, 2017, 11:57:09 pm
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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: scifidude79 on June 19, 2017, 10:12:53 am
It was always available to me for personal use for my own computers from where I use to work as we had corporate copies of all Windows OS.

Your instance is different, but most people who buy computers in retail stores also think that, quite incorrectly.  They've paid for Windows, it's just included in the price of the computer.  Don't believe me?  Just go to any OEM and ask them what they'll charge for any computer without windows (any one that normally comes with it, that is.)  They're usually $90 to $100 cheaper.  Also, look at the $1049.99 configurations on this computer:

http://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/productdetails/xps-13-9360-laptop?3x_nav=OS_BRAND%3DUBUNT&3x_page=1&filterCollapsed=true

For that price, you can get one with Windows 10 and a 128GB SSD, or you can get one with Ubuntu 16.04 and a 256GB SSD.  Same price, twice the hard drive capacity when you **don't** pay for that Windows license.  So, yes those people have indeed paid for Windows, it just wasn't itemized when they purchased computers with it preinstalled.
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: pin on June 19, 2017, 10:27:29 am
I'm 100% with you. That’s the problem, here in Sweden you can't get a machine without an OS installed. Yes, I have paid for window$ just to remove it as soon as I came home. Peppermint 7 on it! I have donate to Peppermint, of course!
I think consumer rights organisations world wide should be doing more for all of us.

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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: scifidude79 on June 19, 2017, 11:33:04 am
They're not so easy to get in the US either, trust me.  It usually involves going to the website of a computer company and live chatting with a sales associate who doesn't really know what they're talking about.  You tell them that you want to buy X computer without an OS and they balk at you.  They say that computer isn't available without an OS, which shouldn't be true.  You go round and round and, if you're lucky, you get what you want.  From what I understand, it doesn't always happen.  It usually depends on who you're dealing with.

Truth be told, if a computer company wants a sale that badly, they'll do it.  It shouldn't realistically matter to them, they don't make any money on the Windows license anyway, it's included at cost.  All they're making money on is the hardware anyway.  Some will even insist on selling you the OS anyway, and you have to talk them into just including it on discs in the box.  It's a huge pill.  ::)

With desktops, you're better off either building one or getting someone you know to do it for you if you can't do it yourself.  The problem is laptops.  Nobody sells DIY laptop kits anymore, or at least not the big component stores.  So, you're pretty much stuck with either a few companies that actually make Linux computers, or you have to try the above method for getting one without an OS, or just wipe the Windows OS and replace it with Linux.  It's not an easy process, no matter what you choose.
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 19, 2017, 03:37:23 pm
I think consumer rights organisations world wide should be doing more for all of us.

Here ya go, have some karma for that :)
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 19, 2017, 03:40:38 pm
Can you still get the money back off Microsoft if you refuse to agree to the EULA on first boot .. like you used to be able to do ?

Theoretically they could tell you to take the PC back, but the shop would then have to sell it as used or refurbed.
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: pin on June 19, 2017, 04:39:03 pm
Humm!
Don't remember the exact words from the first boot... there was something about giving them the right to collect information... but don't remember the rest 😥!

It would be nice to claim the money back, even if just to make a statement... but that's no longer an option...

I did start windows, since I had to check that all ports and drivers were functional... The guy in the shop did tell me that the waranty would no longer be valid if I removed the OS and installed a linux distro.
I'll try to remember that in the future.

Right now I'm very happy to be with Peppermint, just wish I had done it earlier 😆!

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Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 19, 2017, 05:24:22 pm
Okay so answer me this question...

You walk into a PC shop and buy a boxed PC .. you get home and turn it on for the first time asking you to agree to an end user liceense agreement that you disagree with, so you click "No I Don't Accept" so the OS refuses to boot.

You were sold a PC with thr reasonable expectation that it would boot .. at no point (until you got it home) pre-sale were you told you were going to have to accept an EULA and given the opportunity to read it.

Under EU law you were sold something that was being misrepresented and is now unfit for purpose unless you agree to a contract that wasn't brought to your attention pre-sale.

Don't you think the shop would be legally obliged to accept it as return ?

One they can now not sell as "new" (box opened)

A few years ago you could claim the price of Windows back from Microsoft .. it was their way of protecting OEM's from having to bear the cost of returns in these circumstances .. Unless Microsoft can now somehow say the OS didn't add to the cost of the PC then your refusal to accept the EULA legally only leaves them 2 options

a) drop the EULA contract, and make the OS work anyway (they'd never do this as it sets a precedent)

b) return the money either for the thing they attempted to license to you, or the entire PC
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: murraymint on June 19, 2017, 05:27:44 pm
The guy in the shop did tell me that the waranty would no longer be valid if I removed the OS and installed a linux distro.

I just bet that's not legal either. At the very least it could do with a challenge.
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 19, 2017, 05:33:59 pm
Yep, I'd also think that wouldn't stand up in court .. these are not "devices", it's .perfectly reasonable to expect to be able to install whatever software you like on a PC, they're designed and marketed with this in mind.

If they try to argue that Linux could somehow harm the hardware, then they're admitting a hardware fault, and having knowingly sold you something faulty.
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: murraymint on June 19, 2017, 05:44:49 pm
Maybe the guy in the shop thinks you have to open up the case and physically INSTALL Linux. Like how the internet is a little box that sits on a filing cabinet  :D
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: spence on June 19, 2017, 05:45:31 pm
Check out the cost. I don't know about any of you but I sure do't find any of these within my budget nor would I put out this kind of money.  ::)
i spent way than all of those on my rebuild... and If I'd seen those then, I might have opted for one... We're retired and out of the usual spending pool on everything else... but we still like our tech.  8)
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: scifidude79 on June 19, 2017, 06:05:45 pm
I've never seen a PC warranty where changing the OS voids your warranty.  Most OEMs even include drivers on their website specifically for changing your installed version of Windows, with no warranty warnings.  Besides, putting such a stipulation would prevent people from upgrading to the next version of Windows under warranty.
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 19, 2017, 06:11:35 pm
Short answer .. the guy in the shop is a tit.
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: scifidude79 on June 19, 2017, 11:10:23 pm
I can go along with that.

Probably, if you had a hardware issue, the company would repair it under warranty and wipe your Linux install for a fresh version of Windows for "diagnostic" purposes.  ::)
Title: Re: Dell Now Sells 7 Ubuntu-Powered Laptops (15-June-2017)
Post by: pin on June 20, 2017, 03:55:37 am
@PCNetSpec
“Don't you think the shop would be legally obliged to accept it as return?”

Actually I do, but right now I just have to accept I was “dumb” and accepted EULA straight away   :-[… I knew I was going to remove windows and install Peppermint upfront, so I wasn’t paying attention to any legal issues. I do agree that shops should be better in informing about this, but as usual it is the consumer that has to do the reading… again I was “dumb”, or maybe just naïve… :(

@murraymint and PCNetSpec
“I just bet that's not legal either. At the very least it could do with a challenge.”

Probably not, and the shop was most likely just covering their asses and trying to avoid any issues with either the manufacture or microsoft… he did recommend keeping the windows installer in order to recover the OS in case I had to report any issues with the hardware, but I didn’t want to keep that... So, I accepted the EULA, tested that all the drivers and ports were working and wiped it clean.

With all this said, I have to agree that I wasn’t paying enough attention to all the legal details and that was my own fault. Though, I have learned something… next time, I’ll not be paying for windows and accepting EULA.
The important thing it's to learn from earlier mistakes,... even though I feel somewhat ripped off at the moment.