Peppermint OS

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: emegra on April 07, 2017, 01:39:08 pm

Title: Strange
Post by: emegra on April 07, 2017, 01:39:08 pm
Today I received in the post a new 260gb SSD I had ordered from Amazon it came inside a sealed plastic bag inside a sealed San Disk box just as you would expect

I unpacked it put it in my PC booted up with a live PM7 USB and started installing PM7 during the install process it said it has found Windows10 do I want to install alongside or erase the disc and install Peppermint on it's own

I thought that was strange this is a new drive why is it saying Windows10 is installed, so I quit the installation rebooted the PC this time selecting the new SSD as the boot drive and sure enough Windows10 is installed with a login screen showing a pic icon of an Indian looking guy with an unpronounceable name, but I couldn't log in because it was password protected,

So I rebooted again this time into my original HDD with PM7 and tried to access the SSD from there to see what was inside the drive but I can't open the drive because I get this error message

Quote
Error mounting /dev/sdb3 at /media/graeme/OS: Command-line `mount -t "ntfs" -o "uhelper=udisks2,nodev,nosuid,uid=1000,gid=1000" "/dev/sdb3" "/media/graeme/OS"' exited with non-zero exit status 14: The disk contains an unclean file system (0, 0).
Metadata kept in Windows cache, refused to mount.
Failed to mount '/dev/sdb3': Operation not permitted
The NTFS partition is in an unsafe state. Please resume and shutdown
Windows fully (no hibernation or fast restarting), or mount the volume
read-only with the 'ro' mount option.

The other odd thing is now my PC is trying to boot into the wrong drive so I need to open the Boot Manager and select my HDD from there which would normally be easily fixed by going into the BIOS and correcting the boot order but when I tried to do that I find my BIOS requires a password and I've never put a password on my BIOS, that said I can't remember ever being into the BIOS on this PC so the password may have always been there.

It all leaves me with a few unanswered questions

(1) Maybe I'm being paranoid here but is it possible that there is anything on this drive that could have put a password on my BIOS ?
(2) If I mistakenly purchased this as a used drive why would it be be so perfectly packaged like it was new is that normal with Amazon?
(3) Why would anyone selling a used drive not wipe it clean first ?



Graeme


 
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: murraymint on April 07, 2017, 02:00:21 pm
3) Because they don't care about the guy's data that's on there

2) So you would assume it was new

1) I doubt it
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: perknh on April 07, 2017, 02:03:35 pm
You're not being paranoid about this, emegra; there's something definitely wrong here.  There's got be a way to call Amazon.  They really should know about this.  From my experience, once you make contact with Amazon, they're pretty helpful. 
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 07, 2017, 05:30:08 pm
Unless you got it VERY VERY VERY cheap I'd return it .. you have no idea why it's for sale in the first place (though you can get an idea of how many hours it's clocked up.

The error message you got ws because the file system is flagged as "dirty" (read "corrupt") .. this may be nothing more that it was hard shutdown, or it could mean there are failing sectors.

Also .. is "260GB" a typo ? .. I'm not aware SanDisk do a 260GB SSD :-\
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: scifidude79 on April 07, 2017, 05:42:04 pm
Was it actually sold through Amazon or was it a third party seller on Amazon?  That's the real question.  Amazon themselves probably wouldn't do that, but it's sometimes hard to tell if you're actually buying from them or another seller selling things on Amazon.
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: AndyInMokum on April 07, 2017, 09:05:35 pm
SanDisk don't make a 260GB SSD.  They make 240GB ones.  These are in fact 256GB with close to 7% overprovisioning included.  I think you've bought something "special" from "Del Boy" Trotter  :-X.
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: emegra on April 07, 2017, 10:17:00 pm
Quote
Unless you got it VERY VERY VERY cheap I'd return it .. you have no idea why it's for sale in the first place (though you can get an idea of how many hours it's clocked up.

I paid £65 for it


Quote
Also .. is "260GB" a typo ? .. I'm not aware SanDisk do a 260GB SSD :-\

Your right it is 240gb as Andy suggested
Quote

Was it actually sold through Amazon or was it a third party seller on Amazon?  That's the real question.  Amazon themselves probably wouldn't do that, but it's sometimes hard to tell if you're actually buying from them or another seller selling things on Amazon.

I never use Amazon I only used them this time because I got a gift card for my birthday, so maybe it was sold as used and I wasn't paying attention but the thing is if it was sold as used why was it so perfectly packaged as new it was in a proper sealed bag inside a proper sealed san disk box  exactly how it would be if it was new, it even came with the registration card and warranty/installation guide leaflet in perfect condition perfectly folded
Quote

(http://i.imgur.com/SLN5DSH.jpg)

Another thing that's strange if you look carefully at the screenshot you'll see it says it's 480gb on the box but I've checked and it is only 240gb.

Quote
though you can get an idea of how many hours it's clocked up.

How can I do that ? it would be helpful information to go back to Amazon with



Graeme






Title: Re: Strange
Post by: AndyInMokum on April 07, 2017, 10:50:16 pm
Without question Graeme, send it back  >:(.
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: zebedeeboss on April 07, 2017, 11:17:29 pm
Hi emegra,

The corrupt data is generally caused by leaving Windows 10  "Fast startup" option enabled in "what does the power button do" settings. 
There are also a number of tutorials on the web if you wanted to get past the unknown Windows Password. Not that I have tried any with Windows 10.
My usual Win go to site https://www.howtogeek.com/222262/how-to-reset-your-forgotten-password-in-windows-10/ (https://www.howtogeek.com/222262/how-to-reset-your-forgotten-password-in-windows-10/)
The 2nd of the two options offered.
It might get you further "proof" leverage against Amazon or the re-seller for misrepresenting the item being it was all perfectly sealed again.
Either way - Best of Luck and hope you get it sorted soon.

Regards Zeb...
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: emegra on April 07, 2017, 11:25:27 pm
Quote
Without question Graeme, send it back  >:(.

I will Andy thanks, I purchased it through my daughters Amazon account, She's emailed them and we're waiting to hear back, I don't think there will be a problem getting it replaced to be honest,

I'm more curious than anything my thinking is that someone (possibly the Indian guy with the unpronounceable name) has bought a 480gb drive from Amazon and returned it but instead of returning the new drive cleverly packaged his old one and got his money back, but the problem with that is why was it sold as a 240gb drive

One thing in my favour the login screen shows the guys email address and I'm so tempted to email him, not sure what I'll say at this point but I'm gonna wait till I hear back from Amazon



Graeme
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: emegra on April 08, 2017, 12:56:40 am
I finally got into the Windows filesystem, I booted into windows let it run updates then shutdown from the login screen there's thousands of family photos and video, I might just email him and offer him them back in case he doesn't have copies.

Probably just leave the pornography though
boy does he like his pornography  :o



Graeme
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: murraymint on April 08, 2017, 06:10:59 am
Get her to check the order confirmation email. It should say Condition - used or whatever under the item if it wasn't sold as being new. Also yeah, the box is for a drive double that size!
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 08, 2017, 08:19:53 am
Quote
though you can get an idea of how many hours it's clocked up.

How can I do that ? it would be helpful information to go back to Amazon with

The drives SMART data should give you that information (if it supports SMART, which pretty much all drives do these days).

Open a  terminal and run:
Code: [Select]
sudo smartctl --xall /dev/sda(where /dev sda is the SSD)

The look for the lines:-
Quote
0x01  0x008  4            1518  ---  Lifetime Power-On Resets
which is how many times the SSD has been powered ON
Quote
0x01  0x010  4           11041  ---  Power-on Hours
which is the total hours the SSD has been used since new (total uptime)
Quote
0x01  0x018  6     33464741168  ---  Logical Sectors Written
which is the total amount of sectors that have been written to
Quote
0x01  0x028  6     22690108926  ---  Logical Sectors Read
which is the total amount of sectors that have been written to.

BTW, if that's a 480GB SSD as your pic suggests, and you paid £65 .. you **DID** get it cheap (roughly half price).
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Ultra-Sata-2-5-inch-Internal/dp/B00M8ABFX6

If on the other hand it's a 240GB as you say, then the price is about right FOR A NEW ONE (which it obviously isn't) .. so I'd get in touch with amazon and complain, sending them the SMART data, and pics of the wrong box.
(if the amazon advert didn't mention it was "used", then the price makes it reasonable that you would have assumed it was new)

If I had to guess, I'd say the seller has upgraded his 240GB to a 480GB, then used the (very carefully opened) box to repackage and sell the old 240GB drive.

Do Amazon not keep the page active for a while after a sale (as ebay do), so you can recheck how it was advertised ?
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: VinDSL on April 08, 2017, 09:23:40 am
Just a an observation ...

I order a lot of things online [don't we all?] sometimes NIB, sometimes open box/used/refurb, et cetera.

Every purchase presents a different set of concerns, depending on the product and the seller.  And, after a while, I've learned to pattern red-flag items.

Without getting all wordy, and turning this into a white paper report ...

When buying drives online, especially bargain-priced USB thumb drives and SSDs, one needs to be careful about getting illegal counterfeits [only way to check is by opening up and dissecting them] and grey market items [legal non-counterfeit goods sold outside normal distribution channels, e.g. no warrant, no guarantee].

Bottom line:  There's a LOT of fraud going on, with certain items, in certain markets.  SSDs are prime examples, right now.

Be careful out there !   ;)
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: emegra on April 08, 2017, 11:35:32 am
Hi guys

I couldn't use smartctl as it's not installed and when I tried to install it I got an error message saying there was no installation candidate but I found gsmartcontrotl in the repos (which I think is just a frontend for smartctl, If I understand it correctly it's run up 253 hours (Power up Hours).

Here's the output
Spoiler (click here to view / hide)
[close]

I got an email back and it seems it was listed as used like new
Spoiler (click here to view / hide)
[close]
So it looks like I've bought a second hand drive for the price of a new one, I can't find the original listing but I imagine if I do it will be listed as used so I obviously wasn't paying attention, that said it seems strange he went to so much bother to package it so perfectly if he was selling it as used, so it looks like "used like new" means used packaged like new

There may be a way to complain to Amazon (I can always argue on the pornography angle I mean I don't think Amazon would be too happy if there sellers are distributing pornography) but it's Saturday night and I can't be bothered checking it out right now and even if I could I doubt it would do me any good

Suckered



Graeme
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 08, 2017, 11:46:42 am
smartcl is part of the smartmontools package ;)

But if I had to guess that was probably installed as a dependency of gsmartcontrotl .. so the command would probably work now.
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: murraymint on April 08, 2017, 11:58:15 am
"used only once" is a bit of a stretch for 253 hours, even if he never switched off  ???

But it says 511 hours, where did 253 come from?
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: emegra on April 08, 2017, 12:00:49 pm
Yeah you're right it works now but it looks like it's giving me the exact same data as gsmartcontrol

Spoiler (click here to view / hide)
[close]

There are 2 things I find misleading with his description

(1) Condition: Used - Like New

Other than the packaging exactly what part is "Like New"

(2) Comments: Used only once and still Package is available.

It may only have been used in one machine but according to the smart data it's clearly been used more than once

Maybe I'm clutching at straws  :-\



Graeme


Title: Re: Strange
Post by: murraymint on April 08, 2017, 12:04:45 pm
And it's not even the packaging for the right drive.
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 08, 2017, 12:14:33 pm
There is no "used like new" category for electronic items on Amazon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=3149161

The closest would be "Like New", which according to their description is:-

Quote
Like New: an apparently untouched item in perfect condition. The original plastic wrap may be missing, but the original packaging is intact. There are absolutely no signs of wear. Suitable for presenting as a gift.

Now the next category down is "Very Good" which reads:-

Quote
Very Good: a well-cared-for item that has seen limited use but remains in great condition. The item and its instructions are complete and undamaged, but may show some signs of wear. The item works perfectly.

So as there's definitely signs of wear, I'd say it was misrepresented.

"Like New" appears to be purely about opened packaging .. not "used".
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: murraymint on April 08, 2017, 12:18:17 pm
There is no "used like new" category for electronic items on Amazon
There is because "like new" is a subheading under the heading of "Used Electronics & Photo items"
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 08, 2017, 12:23:37 pm
Yep you're right, but that's where the descriptions are from

Can I also add that IMHO (and that of any other reasonable person) 512 hours on the drive can in NO WAY be considered "no signs of wear",

[EDIT]

That said it's not a huge amount either .. my SSD has over 11000 hours on it ;)

I mean if you say it's been running for 8 hours a day .. it's only 64 days or a little over 2 months old, so pretty young in the grand scheme of things ;D

[EDIT 2]

Code: [Select]
169 Total_Bad_Block         -O--CK   100   100   ---    -    314
171 Program_Fail_Count      -O--CK   100   100   ---    -    0
172 Erase_Fail_Count        -O--CK   100   100   ---    -    0

And more importantly, though it says you have 314 bad blocks this is quite normal for an SSD (even new) .. the important facts are it has never failed to be able to program or erase a block.
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: perknh on April 08, 2017, 12:36:52 pm
Quote
252 - 512 hours on the drive can in NO WAY be considered "no signs of wear"...--PCNeSpec

I agree.  You've got a good case here, emegra.

Amazon, at least in the States, is very responsive to its customers.  I pretty certain you'll be alright with this.  Jot down a few talking points, and then use the broken record technique:  repeat your points over and over again until they remedy the situation.  If they're not cooperative, ask to speak to their supervisor. Then, again, repeat your points over and over again until they remedy the situation.  Sometimes they'll even tell you to keep the darn thing, and then they'll refund your money.  But chances are, in this case, you'll have to do a return.  They may email you a label to print out for the return.

P.S.

In fact, I'd repeat that line that's above, over and over again, from PCNetSpec.  It's a good one! ;)
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: zebedeeboss on April 08, 2017, 12:42:23 pm
Samsung Magician says I have Power-on Hours 12645 and front screen says 14.1 TB written - That's my plain SSD 850 Evo that I got in Mid 2015. It won't read the Samsung NVMe drive...
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 08, 2017, 12:51:23 pm
Personally I'd say as the drive is pretty young and has experienced no program/erase failures, I'd write this off as a learning experience and not worry about it too much ;)

But if you wanted to return it, I'd say you have a case as long as you inform Amazon pretty quickly .. so he can't say the 512 hours on the drive are mainly yours.
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: emegra on April 08, 2017, 01:18:50 pm
To be fair it was my own fault I purchased this as a used item it apparently said it was used on the description, that said I don't think the price reflects a used 240gb SSD regardless of how much hours it's clocked up, if I had only paid £30-£40 for this drive (which is all it's worth) I wouldn't have anything to complain about after all you only get what you pay for but I could have bought a new one for the same money,

He's misrepresented it as Mark pointed out there is no Used-Like New in the electronics category and the definition of like new is described as  "an apparently untouched item in perfect condition" & "absolutely no signs of wear." in my opinion neither of these definitions can be attributed to this drive there is also inappropriate data on this drive which might help my case, I don't really want to use that, (what guy hasn't looked a porn on the internet) but hey all's fair in love & war

I'll pursue it as far as I can nothing ventured nothing gained at the end of the day the drive is probably ok and it seems 253-512 hours isn't a whole lot in the grand scheme of things

Thanks for all your interest and advice guys it's much appreciated I'll keep you posted on how it goes

watch this space :)


Graeme
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: VinDSL on April 08, 2017, 02:22:30 pm
watch this space :)

Sweet !   Popcorn time  :D

Go get 'em, Graeme !
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: murraymint on April 08, 2017, 02:50:52 pm
as Mark pointed out there is no Used-Like New in the electronics category
We've established that there is, to be fair.
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: Ly on April 08, 2017, 03:05:59 pm
never ordered anything on the net and i see that you got good advices anyway :), will just watch "Graeme's adventure".
*grabs popcorn*
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 08, 2017, 03:52:16 pm
as Mark pointed out there is no Used-Like New in the electronics category
We've established that there is, to be fair.

You're getting hung up on my earlier minor technical mistake .. it doesn't matter if the definitions are from a subheading of Electronics > Used > [Category], those category descriptions still stand no matter that I didn't see they were from a subheading, they're still the right descriptions and the item doesn't fit the one the seller chose, so it was misrepresented.



watch this space :)

Sweet !   Popcorn time  :D

Go get 'em, Graeme !

LOL :))



@emegra

The hour counts is 512 hours .. the 253 is some kind of default (otherwise all readings are either 253 or 100) .. its the RAW_VALUE that's the figure you're after.
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: murraymint on April 08, 2017, 04:03:32 pm
You're getting hung up on my earlier semantic mistake .. it doesn't matter if the definitions are from a subheading of Electronics > Used > [Category], those category descriptions still stand no matter that I didn't see they were from a subheading, they're still the right descriptions and the the item doesn't fit the one the seller chose, so it was misrepresented.
I'm not, I'm just pointing out that Graeme has missed that, there's no use him complaining about a groundless point.

I agree he shouldn't be listing it as "Used - like new" but that's exactly how the listings appear and that's all I'm clarifying.

Title: Re: Strange
Post by: emegra on April 10, 2017, 03:49:55 am
UPDATE

According to my daughter she's checked the listing on Amazon and can see nothing that suggests the drive is being sold as used, she emailed him back pointing this out & that it was misrepresented etc and he agreed to return the money without any argument.

I'm gonna have a look at the listing myself when I get a chance and I'll post the link here later, but it now looks to me judging by the perfect packaging and the price he's tried to pass this off as a new drive (probably an attempt to offset the cost of his shiny new 480gb ssd) and simply made a schoolboy error by forgetting to wipe it clean.

If he had wiped it clean I would have had no reason whatsoever to suspect this was anything other than a brand new drive,




Graeme

Title: Re: Strange
Post by: murraymint on April 10, 2017, 03:54:13 am
As I said before, it'll be in her confirmation email when she made the order, easy enough to check that.
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: emegra on April 10, 2017, 05:43:17 am
Quote
As I said before, it'll be in her confirmation email when she made the order, easy enough to check that.

According to my daughter (Angela) there is nothing on the listing or the confirmation email suggesting it's used, anyway here's the emails sent back and forward
Spoiler (click here to view / hide)
[close]



Graeme

Title: Re: Strange
Post by: murraymint on April 10, 2017, 06:47:44 am
OK, none of those is the confirmation email from Amazon. Under Condition it has to say New, Refurbished, Used, or whatever.

(https://preview.ibb.co/gyc6y5/amazon.jpg)

Title: Re: Strange
Post by: PCNetSpec on April 10, 2017, 07:01:46 am
Be sure to send it recorded delivery (with insurance) ;)
Title: Re: Strange
Post by: emegra on April 10, 2017, 07:06:38 am
Quote
OK, none of those is the confirmation email from Amazon. Under Condition it has to say New, Refurbished, Used, or whatever.

Yes I know I will get her to forward it to me and post it later I don't want to pester her too much at the moment with it




Graeme