Peppermint OS Community Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: MarkUK on December 12, 2016, 02:03:59 am

Title: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on December 12, 2016, 02:03:59 am
I noticed we've got a list of members available here on the website. Is there any way to tell who's female ? I wonder if we have some females here.  :D

Apparently there is a community called "Ubuntu Women". Here's the link http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/

Have you ever met a female that is genuinely interested in learning nuts and bolts about Linux ?
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 12, 2016, 06:10:44 am
There are a few, on my other forum we had a lady that wanted to figure out Gentoo, as her FIRST foray into Linux, then went on to change her university course to CompSci.

We certainly get a lot of women "liking" our posts on the social media sites, but for whatever reason less so members of this forum.

In answer to your original question - NO there's no way to KNOW .. members can CHOOSE to enter male/female in their forum profile but they can equally choose to leave it blank which most do.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on December 12, 2016, 06:18:39 am
I'm happy to hear that. I lot of females got inspired by the project Hour Of Code. Personally, I admire females who's trying to learn how to program or who likes the taste of Linux. Unfortunately females I get to talk to are usually the ones who uses laptop just for browsing Facebook, Twitter or Instagram.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on December 12, 2016, 06:21:42 am
Well, at least you get to talk to some females !!  :D


Regards,


-- Slim

Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on December 12, 2016, 06:23:36 am
Well, at least you get to talk to some females !!  :D

XD
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: scifidude79 on December 12, 2016, 10:16:12 am
Does it matter?  I mean, we're all users of a great Linux distribution and we come here to socialize and get/provide help with issues.  I personally never worry who's male or female.  I know a number of forum members who are most definitely male, but that doesn't make any difference as to how I treat (or would treat) them.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on December 12, 2016, 10:25:46 am
You misunderstood, I'm afraid. Nobody here talks about treating females different. I was just curious how much is Peppermint (or Linux in that regard) popular among females if at all. There are ladies who actually likes Ubuntu and who likes to talk about it and share opinions and experience. Needless to say there are very few.

Hope I cleared this up to you a bit.

Best Wishes ....
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: emegra on December 12, 2016, 01:41:16 pm
I agree with you Mark it's a shame we don't have more female members, I think there's a few reasons such as I don't think in general females are as interested in technology as males and those who are might feel intimidated joining a male dominated forum such as ours




Graeme
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: scifidude79 on December 12, 2016, 07:39:35 pm
You misunderstood, I'm afraid. Nobody here talks about treating females different.

No, I didn't misunderstand, I got your meaning.  You're just curious.  I was just wondering why.

For the most part, we have about a dozen people or so who post here regularly.  Most everyone else shows up if/when they have a problem or to drop the occasional compliment when a new version drops.  (and for various other reasons, but you get my drift)  How many of that second group are female?  It's hard to say.

It's possible there are plenty of women running this OS who simply don't feel the need to hang around the forums.  For that matter, there are plenty of men who feel that way.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: AndyInMokum on December 12, 2016, 07:48:13 pm
Maybe they've just figured it all out and don't need any help  :o.  Seriously, we've a few of the fairer sex as members.  They pop in once and a while  ;). 
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: travis82 on December 13, 2016, 12:44:26 pm
Today, most students of computer engineering try to learn linux to improve their skills. I know women how are linux experts. However, their main interest area is linux servers and their preferred distros are CentOS and Debian. But I have noticed some girls who have installed Ubuntu on their laptops. Why they don't use peppermint? I don't know, perhaps they rather aesthetic than functionality.  :P

Sorry for my english
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on December 13, 2016, 01:53:34 pm
Today, most students of computer engineering try to learn linux to improve their skills. I know women how are linux experts. However, their main interest area is linux servers and their preferred distros are CentOS and Debian. But I have noticed some girls who have installed Ubuntu on their laptops. Why they don't use peppermint? I don't know, perhaps they rather aesthetic than functionality.  :P

At first I was going play here and have a little fun, because, honestly, Peppermint 7 is one of the most aesthetically pleasing distributions I've ever seen, and my wife loves the look of it too.  But you MAY be onto something here --if you go back to functionality along with aesthetics.

Let's call "functionality" user-friendliness.  What is the most user-friendly Linux distribution you can think of?  I say it's Chrome OS.  Nothing but nothing is easier than to use than a Chromebook.  You don't have to do a darn thing other than open it up and sign into it --that's all!  You're up and running.  But what's the second most user-friendly distro?  Please forgive my French here, but the word is Unité --and it's a feminine noun.  Unity is nearly as user-friendly as Chrome OS (In fact I believe Chrome OS is actually built off of Unity).  All you've got to do is install it, run it, and update it when it tells you too --nothing more.  Their functionality is almost identical.

It seems to me that configuring and tweaking an distribution is more of guy thing.  Xfce takes a little configuring, but, for the little you put into configuring Xfce, you gain countless benefits after doing so.  Peppermint becomes very simple to use, after configuration and personalization , but not before.  That's the difference that I see.  It does appear to me that the guys like to tinker with this or that more than the gals do.  That's been my observation in my house --and it is purely anecdotal.  My job is to configure the computer, my wife's job is to work OS without a glitch.

The truth is is that this is a timeless, open-ended, question, and it won't be answered here or elsewhere in this forum.  Still, it's a fun topic to wonder about.  :)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 13, 2016, 02:16:21 pm
I'm with scifidude79 .. Peppermint is gender neutral, it doesn't come into the equation.

Is anyone suggesting we should specifically target on gender ? .. seriously I see no need it's used by people that "like" it and "get" it whoever they are :)

Sure, there's more males around here but that doesn't mean anything beyond there are differences between the sexes, be they physical, psychological, or social the differences DO exist.

If there are any ladies out there that can tell us how we could engage them more, that would be great .. but that applies equally to ALL groups.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on December 13, 2016, 07:14:51 pm
I'm with scifidude79 .. Peppermint is gender neutral, it doesn't come into the equation...Sure, there's more males around here but that doesn't mean anything beyond there are differences between the sexes, be they physical, psychological, or social the differences DO exist.

I agree.  Socialization is HUGE part of why men and women interact differently with cultural artifacts (in this case, digital technology).  Powerful gender norms, and powerful gender expectations control so much of what human beings do.

If there are any ladies out there that can tell us how we could engage them more, that would be great .. but that applies equally to ALL groups.

That says it all.  I have NEVER heard one complaint from any woman in this forum.  In fact, I've heard very few complaints from anyone in this forum ever --except veggie.  Fortunately veggie achieved special status in our forum by having a thread remain in Peppermint's top 10 most read list for the longest time.  Perhaps veggie is happy with Peppermint 7 now and feels no reason to complain. :)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 14, 2016, 01:49:22 pm
Is this really what you guys think? That women don't like tech and don't like to tinker and have to have things all set up for them or they won't use something? Maybe that is why we don't hang out with you.  ;)  Probably, Ubuntu (which I do not find to be more user friendly than Peppermint) has more women posting because they have a forum for women. Also, Ubuntu just has a lot more people in general posting. Peppermint has a smaller user base. Anyway, I think Peppermint has a very friendly forum. I have been to others where I used a gender-neutral user name just so I would not be dismissed or talked down to. I'm not a science geek  at all, just a happy user, so I do need things explained in detail sometimes. People here seem happy to do that.

In my world, my man is the one who throws up his hands if something doesn't work right. Then he gives it to me to try to fix. He's not willing to spend a little time figuring out the problem and fixing it, he'll just go on without it instead. He's a Windows user and he's afraid of Linux. I've never been able to get him to even try it. And if you dropped him into a forum full of women he would not have much to say.

Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: emegra on December 14, 2016, 02:17:58 pm
Well said LNXlady,

My own comment regarding women not generally interested in technology was a generalisation based on my own experience and certainly not meant to suggest that all women were not interested in technology

Personally I'd love to see more women involved in our project, at present we don't have any on the development or admin side that I'm aware of which is a shame because I think we could benefit from a female perspective

Ubuntu has a much larger user base than we do so it stands to reason will have enough female users to make a women only forum viable unfortunately we don't have that luxury

In my world my missus uses Peppermint on her PC & laptop and other than moaning about not having MS Office has no problems doing the things she wants to do at all, but isn't in the slightest interested in learning how it works or understanding the concept of free/open source software,

to her a computer is a tool to do a job and nothing else



Graeme
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: zebedeeboss on December 14, 2016, 02:23:34 pm
Having been happily married for 36 years - I am keeping well out of this topic....     :D :D :D

ps Well said LNXlady
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 14, 2016, 04:04:23 pm
Quote
Is this really what you guys think? That women don't like tech and don't like to tinker and have to have things all set up for them or they won't use something?

Did I miss something ? .. maybe it's just me but that's not what I took from this topic :-\ .. in fact my first response(second posting) was to draw attention to a lady on my other forum that put me to shame as far as being "tech inquisitive" and speed of achieving "Linux competency". (and if you extrapolate that alongside the amount of males I know in Linux Vs the amount of females I personally know .. women are WAY ahead by my current count)

All I got was that nobody knows why there are "apparently" less women in this forum, possibly partly because we're male so cannot understand, and that social pressures (not stereotypes), whatever they may be, MAY play a part.

I certainly didn't mean to come across as though I blamed outdated (if they ever existed) and patronising (40s cartoon style) gender stereotypes .. and I don't think anyone else meant that either.

[EDIT]

Truth is the Peppermint team *is* (AFAIK) all male (not through choice, simply through circumstance) .. now I don't know if that makes Peppermint itself "male oriented" we certainly don't want it to be, hence my request for female feedback if we're overlooking something blatantly obvious that may appeal to women .. we may be lacking "perspective" or there may not be a gender "perspective" where Linux is concerned (?), it'd currently be hard for us to know ;)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 14, 2016, 04:32:32 pm
Quote
Is this really what you guys think? That women don't like tech and don't like to tinker and have to have things all set up for them or they won't use something?

Did I miss something ? .. maybe it's just me but that's not what I took from this topic :-\ .. in fact my first response(second posting) was to draw attention to a lady on my other forum that put me to shame as far as being "tech inquisitive" and speed of achieving "Linux competency". (and if you extrapolate that alongside the amount of males I know in Linux Vs the amount of females I personally know .. women are WAY ahead by my current count)

All I got was that nobody knows why there are "apparently" less women in this forum, possibly partly because we're male so cannot understand, and that social pressures (not stereotypes), whatever they may be, MAY play a part.

I certainly didn't mean to come across as though I blamed outdated (if they ever existed) and patronising (40s cartoon style) gender stereotypes .. and I don't think anyone else meant that either.

I'm just poking a little fun (hence the wink) but also you read it as a man and I read it as a woman so I noticed things like:
Quote
I think there's a few reasons such as I don't think in general females are as interested in technology as males
Quote
It seems to me that configuring and tweaking an distribution is more of guy thing.
Quote
It does appear to me that the guys like to tinker with this or that more than the gals do.

But don't worry, I did notice the other things, too. I especially liked AndyinMokum's
Quote
Maybe they've just figured it all out and don't need any help  :o.  Seriously, we've a few of the fairer sex as members.  They pop in once and a while  ;). 

More Women use Ubuntu than Peppermint for the same reasons that more men do, because they know about it.  Peppermint is not my main distro but I like it a lot. It's more beautiful than Ubuntu and more sensible, too. The forums are friendly and inclusive. I do think some might pass it up because it is described as being a "lightweight" distro and because one that is cloud friendly. Some of us do like our bells and whistles and don't need lightweight. And the cloud thing makes it sound similar to ChromeOS, as if you can't just download anything you need. It isn't clear at a glance that you don't have to use cloud based stuff to use Peppermint. When I first tried Peppermint it was on a netbook so I was looking specifically for lightweight. I don't need lightweight on either of the computers I have it on now but I probably wouldn't have looked at it if I hadn't used it on the netbook before.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 14, 2016, 04:47:47 pm
LOL .. you're absolutely right, until you pointed those things out I'd TOTALLY missed how they can be interpreted more than just my (male ?) way .. it just goes to show how (unintentionally) gender blinkered we can sometimes be eh (?) :)

Yeah I agree about the "cloudiness" references to Peppermint, we've been making a concerted effort to break away from that recently .. if you read the main website now we've dropped the "cloud hybrid" slant (which was probably damaging) and are trying to push ourselves as more of a "minimal pre-installed where the user is the driver" distro .. the slideshow on the front page now goes to great lengths to explain that apps can be installed locally (mentions of Ice are kept to a minimum, and then explained as just an option).

Problem is it's hard to take back 5 years of stuff from the web and peoples perceptions based on old web pages we don't control .. heck places like DistroWatch (and others) still say we use Mozilla's Prism tech which we haven't since Peppermint ONE (Prism hasn't even been available for 5 years +) ::)

It's also hard to break perceptions that we somehow try to be like ChromeOS .. fact is Peppermint predates ChromeOS so really it would be more accurate to say "ChromeOS is just a LESS functional Peppermint"  but Google have the "mindshare" that comes with corporate size and advertising on their side.
(there are a TON of even "Linux press" articles calling us "Linux answer to ChromeOS" which overlook that fact)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 14, 2016, 05:55:32 pm
I like and agree with this:
Quote
ChromeOS is just a LESS functional Peppermint

Sounds like you are on the right track. I've noticed a lot of Peppermint videos on Youtube so maybe those will help change perceptions. This distro feels very put together, very cohesive and girls do like that. :)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 14, 2016, 06:04:18 pm
Thinking about it and the only non-relative I've met IRL who was also a full-time Linux user was also female, a Fedora user in a local art group. So not only do girls like Linux, even us right-brained artistic types like it.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on December 14, 2016, 06:53:28 pm
Wow ! Respect ! Thanks for your words !

I actually never encountered a lady that would be more techy than a guy in a couple or in general. It was truly interesting and funny to read your post.

And by the way welcome among us haha.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on December 14, 2016, 06:57:34 pm
I think I speak for everybody here when I say that ladies are more than welcome here and we certainly encourage 'em to post on topic if they feel they have something to say.

In fact I hope Peppermint's popularity will increase one day beyond belief. Peppermint has the potential in my opinion. I ditched Win 10 for Peppermint and ain't going back.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: AndyInMokum on December 14, 2016, 07:06:35 pm
I think I speak for everybody here when I say that ladies are more than welcome here and we certainly encourage 'em to post on topic if they feel they have something to say.

In fact I hope Peppermint's popularity will increase one day beyond belief. Peppermint has the potential in my opinion. I ditched Win 10 for Peppermint and ain't going back.

+1 from me  ;)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 14, 2016, 07:23:20 pm
Wow ! Respect ! Thanks for your words !

I actually never encountered a lady that would be more techy than a guy in a couple or in general. It was truly interesting and funny to read your post.

And by the way welcome among us haha.

I had to go to a special work dinner with him recently and I heard him tell some of the other men, "oh, she doesn't let me touch her computers."  ;D

Thank you for the welcome. I ditched Windows for Linux years ago. There is no going back. Windows just keeps getting worse while Linux gets better and better.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 14, 2016, 07:28:21 pm
Heh, something tells me you'll get little argument here on that last point :)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 14, 2016, 07:40:29 pm
BTW, being a 55 year old dinosaur and as a joke I nearly called the pink gtk/icon themes "Peppermix Girly Pink" as an in-joke at my son who asked for it since Ronaldo famously got rid of that particular barrier .. but thought better of it :)

In fact the versions on his laptop actually DO list them as that .. I couldn't help myself >:D

[EDIT]

He's 20 and at University by the way .. for Christ sake don't all think I was giving say a 10 year old insecurities :D
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on December 14, 2016, 08:42:05 pm
Ouch!  I think I just got beat up here.  I only live with one woman who loves Linux and who won't use Windows --so, really, what do I know?  I going with what LNXlady says here in this thread.  Although we have plenty of knights in this forum, it's good to know there are no damsels in distress!  :)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 15, 2016, 09:47:34 am
BTW, being a 55 year old dinosaur and as a joke I nearly called the pink gtk/icon themes "Peppermix Girly Pink" as an in-joke at my son who asked for it since Ronaldo famously got rid of that particular barrier .. but thought better of it :)

In fact the versions on his laptop actually DO list them as that .. I couldn't help myself >:D

[EDIT]

He's 20 and at University by the way .. for Christ sake don't all think I was giving say a 10 year old insecurities :D

Being American, not a TV watcher, and not a sports fan, I had no idea who Ronaldo was so I had to google him. He wears pink well. :) A little girly pink never hurts. It is easier on the eyes than an orange/purple combo! Let's keep it.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 15, 2016, 09:58:14 am
Ouch!  I think I just got beat up here.  I only live with one woman who loves Linux and who won't use Windows --so, really, what do I know?  I going with what LNXlady says here in this thread.  Although we have plenty of knights in this forum, it's good to know there are no damsels in distress!  :)

Sorry to call you out, Perknh. I really was amused, not offended. It's interesting to see what a bunch of men have to say about women when they think there are none listening.   ;D Anyway, you DID get at least one woman to post more so mission accomplished, LOL.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 15, 2016, 05:52:25 pm
It is easier on the eyes than an orange/purple combo! Let's keep it.

Worryingly it took far longer than it should before I "got" that ???
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on December 15, 2016, 05:54:33 pm
Sorry to call you out, Perknh.

Hi LNXlady,

My wife, mrs.perknh, would think you're off to a good start, but she's be even happier with you if you would get a little tougher on me the next time around.  I know what she'd say to you, however:  She'd say, "LNXlady (https://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1562), give me a high-five!"  ;)

LNXlady, it's nice to have you here!  :)

Thank you,

perknh

P.S.

It is easier on the eyes than an orange/purple combo! Let's keep it.

Worryingly it took far longer than it should before I "got" that ???

Why are Ubuntu colors orange and purple?

By Muntasim-Ul Haque from Quora

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Ubuntu-colors-orange-and-purple (https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Ubuntu-colors-orange-and-purple)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 15, 2016, 07:47:13 pm
She'd say, "LNXlady (https://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1562), give me a high-five!"  ;)
LOL, then give her a high five from me.  Explaining why is optional.  :D

Quote
Why are Ubuntu colors orange and purple?

By Muntasim-Ul Haque from Quora

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Ubuntu-colors-orange-and-purple

And there's this:
Quote
We have introduced a palette which includes both a fresh, lively orange, and a rich, mature aubergine. The use of aubergine indicates commercial involvement, while orange is a signal of community engagement.
from https://design.ubuntu.com/brand/colour-palette
Nice colors but not together, I think.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on December 15, 2016, 08:26:47 pm
She'd say, "LNXlady (https://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1562), give me a high-five!"  ;)
LOL, then give her a high five from me.  Explaining why is optional.  :D

Will do.  The mischief I got myself in, here in Peppermint forum yesterday, delights mrs.perknh to no end!  ;D

Quote
Why are Ubuntu colors orange and purple?

By Muntasim-Ul Haque from Quora

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Ubuntu-colors-orange-and-purple

And there's this:
Quote
We have introduced a palette which includes both a fresh, lively orange, and a rich, mature aubergine. The use of aubergine indicates commercial involvement, while orange is a signal of community engagement.
from https://design.ubuntu.com/brand/colour-palette
Nice colors but not together, I think.

Great resource.  Thank you, LNXlady.  I like the color aubergine very much.  Aubergine, for whatever reason, helps cheer me up --even helping me to fight the winter blues I experience here in New England every winter.  That color is one of the reasons why I like the look of Unity so much --though I don't like Unity's G-Editor tool, or even Ubuntu's forum, much at all.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 16, 2016, 09:36:44 am

Great resource.  Thank you, LNXlady.  I like the color aubergine very much.  Aubergine, for whatever reason, helps cheer me up --even helping me to fight the winter blues I experience here in New England every winter.  That color is one of the reasons why I like the look of Unity so much --though I don't like Unity's G-Editor tool, or even Ubuntu's forum, much at all.

It's a favorite of mine, too. I wear it a lot, but never with orange. ;) I have to give Ubuntu points for stepping out of the box, though. Very few OSs move away from blue or gray.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: Pikolo on December 16, 2016, 10:33:40 am
My take one the subject is going to be a bit more statistics driven. I'm a Computer Science student, with 58 people in the class. There are 7 girls and 51 guys.
I run Peppermint, my friend runs Debian, another guy is a Fedora user. Other than that, it's 75% Windows & 20% OSX. Our lab has Windows 7 and Ubuntu 16.04 installed, and we actively use both.

I'm on my first year. The OS usage changes over time, with the proportion being 50-30-20, Windows - OSX - Linux among graduates. This data is based on my estimates from their presentations.

It's probably just the numbers disparity that causes no Linux users among 1st year women. That said, I find men to be more willing to experiment. I've convinced a friend running OSX to try Linux in a VM, and he's playing with it. Another friend running Win7 tried installing Linux in a VM on his own and was absolutely delighted when I told him that there exist other GUIs then Unity  ::) I showed him Peppermint, we'll see what comes of it. I tired doing the same with a friend running Win10 and she actively refused, even when it meant going to the lab to finish some exercises. But that's a very small sample

Computer literacy matters a lot more. Linux still has the "it's for command line professionals only" appeal, so with the sex disproportion of people with CS degrees(I think it's 80-20 male to female, and getting more even over time. My university runs 5 CS degrees, and others have even up to 30% women), we are naturally going to have less current female users, and see their number grow over time.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 16, 2016, 11:13:25 am
My take one the subject is going to be a bit more statistics driven. I'm a Computer Science student, with 58 people in the class. There are 7 girls and 51 guys.
I run Peppermint, my friend runs Debian, another guy is a Fedora user. Other than that, it's 75% Windows & 20% OSX. Our lab has Windows 7 and Ubuntu 16.04 installed, and we actively use both.

I'm on my first year. The OS usage changes over time, with the proportion being 50-30-20, Windows - OSX - Linux among graduates. This data is based on my estimates from their presentations.

It's probably just the numbers disparity that causes no Linux users among 1st year women. That said, I find men to be more willing to experiment. I've convinced a friend running OSX to try Linux in a VM, and he's playing with it. Another friend running Win7 tried installing Linux in a VM on his own and was absolutely delighted when I told him that there exist other GUIs then Unity  ::) I showed him Peppermint, we'll see what comes of it. I tired doing the same with a friend running Win10 and she actively refused, even when it meant going to the lab to finish some exercises. But that's a very small sample

Computer literacy matters a lot more. Linux still has the "it's for command line professionals only" appeal, so with the sex disproportion of people with CS degrees(I think it's 80-20 male to female, and getting more even over time. My university runs 5 CS degrees, and others have even up to 30% women), we are naturally going to have less current female users, and see their number grow over time.

I'm not surprised that out of 7 girls none of them would be running Linux but I am surprised that out of 51 guys in a computer science course, only 3 of the guys do. I wonder, if the lab was running Windows 8 (!) or  Windows 10 instead of 7, how many would be using either Ubuntu or OSx by the end of the course.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: spence on December 19, 2016, 06:36:45 pm
Of the hundreds of females with whom I am related or in contact with via social media, only one has any idea what an operating system is. Much less what version of Windows they are using  :o... That one lady is a big wig linux developer mostly working on Amarok, she travels the world going to linux conferences. I guess all the women I know, save Valorie, are predominately just overly busy Moms or Grandmas with no time or interest in diving deeply into technology.  ::)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on December 19, 2016, 08:45:12 pm
Hello spence,

LNXlady singlehandedly --well, with the full support of mrs.perknh -- recently put me on the straight and narrow.  Yep, in the nicest possible way, LNXlady served me my head on a platter  --even putting a shinny apple in my mouth.  (Word on the street was that I never looked better!)  Let's not forget, as well as being as computer savvy as woman choose to be, these gals have a knack for decorating too.  ;)

perknh
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 20, 2016, 05:51:59 am
Quote from: spence
Of the hundreds of females with whom I am related or in contact with via social media.....

None understand my pain and the anguish of my inner child screaming to get out....

Please send donations to my psychiatric fund to mark@morefoolyou.com :'(
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 20, 2016, 10:43:14 am
Of the hundreds of females with whom I am related or in contact with via social media, only one has any idea what an operating system is. Much less what version of Windows they are using  :o... That one lady is a big wig linux developer mostly working on Amarok, she travels the world going to linux conferences. I guess all the women I know, save Valorie, are predominately just overly busy Moms or Grandmas with no time or interest in diving deeply into technology.  ::)
PCNetSpec & perknh, you guys are so funny. ;D

Spence, you should help some of those hundreds  :o of females out, and tell them about Linux. Especially any of them unfortunate enough to be running Windows 8-10. Most of them probably just don't know know their options. I was lucky to have had a male relative show me Linux Mint years ago. I probably wouldn't have found out about it, otherwise.  I'm so glad he didn't think I was someone who would have no interest in it  just because I am female (and a busy mom).
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: Skara Brae on December 22, 2016, 05:23:03 am
In my world, my man is the one who throws up his hands if something doesn't work right.
So, LNXlady, is it true that you are a tomboy?  :D (Just kidding, please do not feel offended...)

I have a female friend. She knows her way around in Windows (more than many women I know, which aren't  THAT many, but anyway), but she has no interest in installing and trying out Linux.

I think that computers-and-stuff is a bit of a technical thing, and "technical things" are more of a male thing? Women will be interested, but to dive into Linux, for example, is another matter.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on December 22, 2016, 07:47:10 am
Oh, nooo... Here we go again!  ::) :P :P

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on December 22, 2016, 09:33:32 am
Oh, nooo... Here we go again!  ::) :P :P

Yeah, Slim.Fatz...Peppermint's pool in on again.  The smart money is going on LNXlady for Round 1!  ;)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 22, 2016, 09:53:36 am
In my world, my man is the one who throws up his hands if something doesn't work right.
So, LNXlady, is it true that you are a tomboy?  :D (Just kidding, please do not feel offended...)

I have a female friend. She knows her way around in Windows (more than many women I know, which aren't  THAT many, but anyway), but she has no interest in installing and trying out Linux.

I think that computers-and-stuff is a bit of a technical thing, and "technical things" are more of a male thing? Women will be interested, but to dive into Linux, for example, is another matter.

LOL, no I'm not a tomboy. My favorite color is pink! Sometimes, even my computer is pink. Linux is so customizable. I'm not even especially technical minded. I hate math. But I am practical. I like my computer (and everything else) to look the way I want and behave the way I want. Most women have never even heard of Linux and have not had anyone show them the benefits of it. The majority of my male friends had never heard of Linux. I remember one asking me what it was and I told him it was an operating system and then he wanted to know what an operating system was.  ??? None of my male friends have any interest in installing or trying it.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on December 22, 2016, 06:11:52 pm
"I remember one asking me what it was and I told him it was an operating system and then he wanted to know what an operating system was. "

omg ... this must make you think like "What people I hang out with ???"  LOL
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 22, 2016, 09:07:30 pm
"I remember one asking me what it was and I told him it was an operating system and then he wanted to know what an operating system was. "

omg ... this must make you think like "What people I hang out with ???"  LOL

Yep. And it's why most of my IRL friends don't even know I run Linux. So if you asked them, they would probably say they don't know any females interested in Linux. Right after they asked you what it was, LOL. Thank goodness for the internet.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on December 22, 2016, 09:17:03 pm
...most of my IRL friends don't even know I run Linux. So if you asked them, they would probably say they don't know any females interested in Linux. Right after they asked you what it was, LOL. Thank goodness for the internet.

I agree.  I know a lot of people who would go blank on that question.  If you say "computer", they understand.  If you "Apple", they understand.  I you say "Windows", they understand.  But if you say, "an OS", they go blank.  They don't know the lingo, and they don't understand the differences between various OSes --and, most of all, they don't care.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 22, 2016, 09:38:43 pm
...most of my IRL friends don't even know I run Linux. So if you asked them, they would probably say they don't know any females interested in Linux. Right after they asked you what it was, LOL. Thank goodness for the internet.

I agree.  I know a lot of people who would go blank on that question.  If you say "computer", they understand.  If you "Apple", they understand.  I you say "Windows", they understand.  But if you say, "an OS", they go blank.  They don't know the lingo, and they don't understand the differences between various OSes --and, most of all, they don't care.

Very true. I don't understand it, but it's true. I also don't understand why some of my friends choose to have a cat when they could have a dog instead, but that is also somehow true. It's a strange world.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on December 23, 2016, 05:04:06 am
I'm scared :'(
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: spence on December 26, 2016, 03:52:10 pm
I'm so glad he didn't think I was someone who would have no interest in it  just because I am female (and a busy mom).

 FWIW, I talk about my computer/laptop rebuilding quite a lot... my sis just rolls her eyes "i don't have time, why can't it just work like the phone does?" I'm not being sexist, most males my age say virtually the same thing... folks are just mostly over "computers" and bypass them for their phones...

Meanwhile, my Mom lives her entire life via martyrdom... hoping someone will finally tire of her wails & woes and come fix whatever it is she's complaining about that day for her. I moved 2500 miles away, her grandchildren who can't be bothered with anything besides their personal iPhone (which are all still on their Dad's work account) can't seem to find any interest to learn anything about triaging any computer system. Just be glad none of us have to pay my brother-in-laws phone bill  :o.

Against my better judgement, I recently decided to clean up Mom's old Compaq M2000 laptop and send it back to her. She's been wailing about not comprehending the Win 10 her newer laptop upgraded to. Y'all will recollect the Compaq has a dual boot system WinXP which she's familiar with and Peppermint7... I have it set to automagically boot into Peppermint 7. Somewhere in the back of my mind, something was telling me I would be being helpful to her, and take a load off of my sister who gets tired of Mom calling 90 times a day to warn her about her latest news driven fears. So now she'll be calling me to help with the laptop instead... I mailed it back to her nearly two months ago, she hasn't yet plugged it in, complaining about "technology being too much for me to handle..." 
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on December 26, 2016, 07:44:08 pm
... folks are just mostly over "computers" and bypass them for their phones...


Sadly, this is true. Not me, though. I have a beautiful brand new Pixel phone but I'd still rather do my computing on an actual full sized computer. I can't even let go of my desktop pc, even though I have 2 laptops that I mostly use. I guess I'm just old skool. Or maybe just old, LOL.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: spence on December 27, 2016, 03:16:58 pm
... folks are just mostly over "computers" and bypass them for their phones...


Sadly, this is true. Not me, though. I have a beautiful brand new Pixel phone but I'd still rather do my computing on an actual full sized computer. I can't even let go of my desktop pc, even though I have 2 laptops that I mostly use. I guess I'm just old skool. Or maybe just old, LOL.

Ol'skool here too... just rummaged thru the computer parts bin down at the computer recyclers http://riseequipmentrecycling.org/ (http://) to find 2gb of matching 512 mb memory to give this old Dell a longer life. Sitting right beside it is my old self built Antec box waiting for the day I become bored and do a multi-boot install of old windoze OSes... and next to that my Palm III xe ... ... ...

I think my laptop days are over as I acclimate to using the Galaxy Note 4 cell phone... its holding my entire photo archive... and am about to upload the entire ancestry photo archive too... laptop batteries are all useless here, i shoulda dropped them at the recyclers...
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on February 02, 2017, 06:13:14 am
Here's an interesting thesis as to why there are now fewer women in the world of computer science than men.  Was the turning point for this phenomenon really in 1984?  Could it all really be as simple as this --that personal computers were generally put in boys' rooms first?  :-\

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPuyDbQwfHs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPuyDbQwfHs)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on February 02, 2017, 07:37:39 am
Interesting video. The truth may lie somewhere along the lines mentioned in the video that "people tell stories to themselves". When I was growing up I overheard so many times somebody saying that "computers are for boys". Never realised that if ladies hear this often enough throughout their lives they will start believe in it regardless if it's bs or not.

On the other hand when you think about it nowadays literally everybody owns a laptop. Whether it's a Windows PC, Chromebook (Linux), Macbook or my personal favourite Linux.
And from what I get to see every day all ladies own a laptop too. Not just men. But majority of women (disclaimer: I said majority not all)  use laptop just to scroll through Facebook or Instagram or to binge on YouTube. They usually don't care how it all works "under the hood".They usually don't realise what a great opportunity they have to learn amazing skill and potentially ... (well I should say likely) they can develop something cool by themselves. When it comes to programming there's no limit. And you don't have to blow your wallet on coding courses to learn. Research says that 80 % of all software engineers are self-made. Very small percentage of programmers have a formal education related to CS.

In the past I watched some videos on YouTube where female programmers were PROMOTING coding to women. I thought what a great idea ! And I shared the video on socials as well so it may inspire some females in my circles. And those women were genuinely passionate about coding.  Some women got inspired indeed. But the percentage of women who's really interested in computing / coding is still very low. Somewhere around 2 or 3 % which only covers the bottom of the graph.

Also I suppose you need to allow yourself to be a "nerd". Who says being a "nerd" is a bad thing ??? Sadly you can see plenty examples of computer geeks to be portrayed in movies as the weird, socially awkward individuals which again ... ain't true !  (computer geek being a weirdo = false)   (as a matter of fact one of my fav movies is "The Social Network")
And so is on socials. Sometimes I see non-flattering jokes on programmers in my Google+ feed. It's just makes my head shaking. I guess it all boils down to how do you find building programs ? Interesting ? Boring ? Inspiring ? Engaging ? Those 2 or 3 % of ladies in CS find it very interesting and coding and coding their heads off regardless what other women think of them !
And who knows some day that "weird" lady probably will create software that will work with some medical device and will help save some human lives in the future.

The program GPs use ? The program grocery stores use to check your shopping out ? Your Android, iOS, Windows 10 phone ? Programs astronauts use ? All that was created by a programmer.

Wow ... what a long post .... Mark out ....

Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on February 02, 2017, 09:48:16 am
Here's an interesting thesis as to why there are now fewer women in the world of computer science than men.  Was the turning point for this phenomenon really in 1984?  Could it all really be as simple as this --that personal computers were generally put in boys' rooms first?  :-\
Interesting. My brother had a computer and I wanted one so badly. Luckily, he shared and we spent a lot of time on it together. I remember a little game we made. I made the sprites for it. It had this horrible thing called Windows that took all day to load and then we could only do 1 or 2 things on it and then had to get back out to DOS to do anything else we wanted to do, LOL.  When I left home, one of he first things I bought was a computer. I didn't have a TV or a phone for years, but I had a computer. By then, everything was Windows. I did not become a programmer and probably wouldn't have even if I'd had one as a kid but a lot of girls would have. It's still my favorite toy and if my brother hadn't had one I would probably be one of those women MarkUK knows who just want a computer to scroll through Facebook *shudder*. Ok, that part is a lie. I kind of think Windows is what killed it for a lot of people at that time, but that's not gender related. Now that many schools require the students to have a computer, this should be changing. It won't be seen so much as something for boys if all the girls have one, too.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: mac on February 02, 2017, 10:06:28 am
In my part of the world, for the younger generation at least, computers are no longer a luxury but have become essential.  In fact, it would be extremely difficult to get through grade school, let alone college, without one.  Kids, male & female, grow up with all this technology, today, and the line between male & female (computerwise) is rapidly disappearing.  I'm reminded  of a now ancient song by James Brown, "This is a Man's Word."  Well, it ain't anymore.  Hmmmm.... :-\

cheers
mac
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: spence on February 02, 2017, 01:33:22 pm
In my part of the world, for the younger generation at least, computers are no longer a luxury but have become essential.  In fact, it would be extremely difficult to get through grade school, let alone college, without one.  Kids, male & female, grow up with all this technology, today, and the line between male & female (computerwise) is rapidly disappearing.  I'm reminded  of a now ancient song by James Brown, "This is a Man's Word."  Well, it ain't anymore.  Hmmmm.... :-\

Agreed, but I can name only ONE of our dozens of nieces & nephews and zero of our younger cousins who know anything about the code, nor the workings under the cover of their phones, laptops, chromebooks nor desktops.... not a single one of them wants to know anything about the OS... my sister's two boys were fascinated by coding early on, but the gawdawful jr high school teacher bored them to tears and they left coding behind. Their sister... well... ummm "none of my friends are in that class, I don't wanna"
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: mac on February 02, 2017, 01:43:52 pm
Point well taken, spence.  I think it's more environment than gender, though.  Of course, I could be wrong.   It amazes me what even toddlers are able to do with computers today but, you're right, not many want to get under the hood.   As is a title from another ancient song, "The Times, They Are A Changing."   ;)

cheers
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on February 02, 2017, 04:02:10 pm
Friend of mine study CS in uni and he says some females are better at coding than he is ! He said sometimes HE is asking THEM questions. My jaw dropped when he said that to me. So I'm happy it slowly gets better. Very very very and one more time very slowly it gets better.  :)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on February 02, 2017, 04:09:15 pm
Not sure why you would find that jaw dropping Mark ???

I could maybe understand being surprised that ladies had joined the course in the first place, but not that the ladies with an interest would be good at it ;)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on February 02, 2017, 04:18:44 pm
Mark ... I just noticed you've got ICQ contact listed here. Are you really using ICQ ? I was using ICQ like 10 years ago. Inevitably it got replaced but I loved it. Although it is still available to download and use I wonder how many people actually actively using it for everyday communication in 2017.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on February 02, 2017, 04:30:04 pm
Not really .. I haven't used it in ages, but I may again at some point so I'll leave the contact intact for now :)

I don't really do Skype or Google Talk either .. but still have accounts (I think).

Maybe I just keep those icons on the left because they put me in mind of military ribbons, and make me look like some kind of high ranking hero type :))
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: spence on February 04, 2017, 08:14:19 pm
To be fair to the younger crowd, I felt the same way at their age. Dad tried like the dickens to get me interested in coding back in the late 70's. I thought it was boring as all get out and only wanted to go outside and play. I was into botany & horticulture... the out of doors... Couldn't fathom a desire. need nor any wants for computers, much less coding them. Space Invaders was sorta cool on the Apple ][e he bought. I think I played it for a few weeks before becoming bored. I did not take it with me to college in the fall of '80. Didn't buy another until 1994, didn't go online for another two years. Dad was still urging me to go apply at AOL... ... ...
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: mac on February 04, 2017, 08:18:53 pm
AOL....there's one I haven't thought of in years   ::)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on February 04, 2017, 11:25:06 pm
Sorry, gentlemen, but we're discussing females here --and AOL doesn't quite cut it!  How the heck did we go from females to AOL?   That's a question I DON'T want to know the answer to!  ;D

In the meantime:

Quote
Friend of mine study CS in uni and he says some females are better at coding than he is ! --MarkUK

&

Quote
I could maybe understand being surprised that ladies had joined the course in the first place, but not that the ladies with an interest would be good at it ;) --PCNetSpec

Agreed!  When I attended a small junior college in California years ago, everyone knew there the best students in math and logic usually came out of Asia and the Horn of Africa --at my school usually meaning Japan (especially for math) and Ethiopia (for BOTH math and logic).  And, believe me, it didn't matter what gender these students were.  Male or female, all of them were A students all the way.  I get it that biology and culture mix and mesh, but with brain power, honestly, I've never seen any difference between the genders at all.

I'll confess, I wanted to hear from LNXlady  (https://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1562)on this issue most of all:  The thesis of the video was so interesting, I was curious about whatever she'd have to say about it.  Our little sampling here in Peppermint has shown me that the video's thesis hasn't been debunked yet at all.  I find this, in and of itself, to be astonishing --that we are now tracing this disparity today between females and males, in in the world of computing, back to what happened with Apple computers and boys' and girls' bedrooms  back in 1984.  If this thesis is so, this is absolutley amazing, if you take a moment to think about it.  :o
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on February 05, 2017, 07:51:38 am
Just to make things clear .... I didn't mean to offend females and I hope <em>nobody</em> got it that way.

I only expressed my amazement about the fact that friend of mine met females who seem to have greater knowledge and skill in computing than him 'coz in a last fifteen years of my interest in computing that never happened to me. I think I'll be very pleasantly surprised when I strike up a random conversation about IT and some female will have something to say to it. Wonderful day everyone !
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on February 05, 2017, 09:16:45 am
Hi MarkUK,

With only three words and a question mark, you started one of the most interesting threads in the forum.  Thank you, MarkUK. ;)

This is an interesting topic and I'm now more convinced than ever that mores (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/mores?s=t) and socialization have historically played a huge role to create the gender gap we see in the world of computing now.  What I find so interesting it that much of this has happened right under our noses, but so few people seemed to notice it.  I mean we can see this clearly in other fields today.  Take swimming for instance:  You have to be able to wear a swimsuit in order to enter into a swimming pool, right?  If this assumption is correct, I don't expect to see many female divers and swimmers coming out of Saudi Arabia any time soon.  Why?  Socialization based upon the mores of a culture.  Maybe it's that simple.  But, when there's a phenomenon happening within our own culture, it seems to be much harder to see and to understand.

I suspect we'll see more women in computer related fields over time.  Young people, boys and girls, have equal access to computers and smartphones now.  I think the gender gap will eventually narrow.  But I still wonder, as you do, about Peppermint.  How do we have more gals to use Linux, or in our case, Peppermint?  You posed a very good question, MarkUK.  And I don't have an answer to it either.  :-\

perknh
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on February 05, 2017, 09:49:31 am
Sorry, gentlemen, but we're discussing females here --and AOL doesn't quite cut it!  How the heck did we go from females to AOL?   That's a question I DON'T want to know the answer to!  ;D

In the meantime:

Quote
Friend of mine study CS in uni and he says some females are better at coding than he is ! --MarkUK

&

Quote
I could maybe understand being surprised that ladies had joined the course in the first place, but not that the ladies with an interest would be good at it ;) --PCNetSpec

Agreed!  When I attended a small junior college in California years ago, everyone knew there the best students in math and logic usually came out of Asia and the Horn of Africa --at my school usually meaning Japan (especially for math) and Ethiopia (for BOTH math and logic).  And, believe me, it didn't matter what gender these students were.  Male or female, all of them were A students all the way.  I get it that biology and culture mix and mesh, but with brain power, honestly, I've never seen any difference between the genders at all.

I'll confess, I wanted to hear from LNXlady  (https://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1562)on this issue most of all:  The thesis of the video was so interesting, I was curious about whatever she'd have to say about it.  Our little sampling here in Peppermint has shown me that the video's thesis hasn't been debunked yet at all.  I find this, in and of itself, to be astonishing --that we are now tracing this disparity today between females and males, in in the world of computing, back to what happened with Apple computers and boys' and girls' bedrooms  back in 1984.  If this thesis is so, this is absolutley amazing, if you take a moment to think about it.  :o

Well, I promised to be on my best behavior here for a while  but since you specifically asked I will say that I do believe there is some basis to this.  I have 3 brothers and I'm the only girl. I was treated differently. It's not a subject you want to get me started  on really. I was a good student but there was never any talk of college. My younger brother was even allowed to get his driver's  license before me. I can't say it's true for every family out there but my parents did not think I "needed" a computer or college or a driver's license or any number of other things I wanted and we didn't have a lot of money so if we didn't need something we weren't likely to get it. Computers were for boys. All the fun stuff was for boys, actually. Makes me wonder what lame people were in charge of deciding these things. Now, that's enough personal info. Mark me down as a believer. I do believe it has changed a lot and is still changing. I have friends with daughters and those girls are being told they can do whatever they want to do if they work hard at it. Those girls are going to college, some of them are going into the military, and I'm sure some of them will go into technology.

On the flip side, when I was a kid I knew a little boy who loved to play with dolls as a toddler. His parents allowed it when most wouldn't have. At the time, I thought it was a little creepy. Why should it be creepy? He was just a toddler. Now we have dolls that aren't so specifically and obviously girl toys but then dolls were all either female babies or Barbies. So, I do think someone was deciding what was ok for boys too, it just wasn't as limiting as it was for girls. Boys and girls are different but I think society has set up some unnatural barriers to separate us all further and it's unnecessary and possibly harmful. 
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on February 05, 2017, 10:05:51 am
Good talk lady & gents ......   :)

Let me just ask you LNXlady .. since you're running P7 did you have to tweak your system before you got it working the way you want ? Meaning .... it's a general knowledge that unlike Windows Linux does deal with incompatibilities with computer's hardware. Simply 'coz the crushing majority of computers on the market are designed to be operated under Windows. And Linux devs do their best to share their knowledge on how to eliminate those bugs.

Was your P7 up and ready out of the box or did you have to play with the terminal a bit to get it in shape  ?
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: zebedeeboss on February 05, 2017, 11:03:21 am
Hi

Irrespective of Gender, I will chirp in on that last Question.  P7 worked for me out of the box. I only had to add nvidia drivers this on a 2016 i7.  I also had a 2009 i5 that it worked on out of the box.  I also have an i5 Lenovo Laptop that worked out of the box.  Maybe I have been very lucky with my hardware?   Maybe it was because I chose my purchases wisely?  All I know is that what ever I throw at Peppermint 7  IT JUST WORKS   :D

Regards Zeb...

ps  Sure I tweaked and poked around since but I could have simply installed it and used it.  My nature doesn't allow me to do that though  :)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: MarkUK on February 05, 2017, 11:57:25 am
Good for you, zebedeeboss !

This is getting a little bit off-topic but anyways .....

Yes hardware awareness may play a part at how your system works. Of course. For example from my experience I had a lot of difficulties with getting my laptop making friends with Ubuntu 16.10. My laptop has all the bits inside with AMD mark on it and I learnt that Ubuntu 16.04 and 16.10 work well with AMD computers but only with specific models. As you can guess my bits weren't on the list and therefore my laptop experienced hiccups. (Had to switch from Ubuntu 16.10 to P7 'coz eventually I got this warning on the screen after installing all updates saying "An internal error occurred" and that was it . But quite frankly I don't really mind 'coz I learn loads along the way and that what really counts.

What supports what I'm saying here is also the fact the this forum is overflowing with people asking for an advice how to make P7 work. What workaround they should try and what command in terminal might help to fix the issue. Thank goodness for the forum ! I've found so many helpful contributors namely Mark Greaves from top of my head.

So yeah I dare to say you're lucky fella  ;)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on February 05, 2017, 12:48:49 pm
Well, I promised to be on my best behavior here for a while...

That statement in and of itself demonstrates that our society still has different expectations from gals than from guys.

I have 3 brothers and I'm the only girl. I was treated differently...I was a good student but there was never any talk of college. My younger brother was even allowed to get his driver's  license before me. I can't say it's true for every family out there but my parents did not think I "needed" a computer or college or a driver's license or any number of other things I wanted and we didn't have a lot of money so if we didn't need something we weren't likely to get it. Computers were for boys. All the fun stuff was for boys, actually. Makes me wonder what lame people were in charge of deciding these things.

Me too, LNXlady.  Me too.  What's more we have to realize our parents were influenced by the culture in which they grew up in too.  And on and on it goes until something changes the pattern.  I'm just glad you fought back when you were so young against adult behavior that you clearly recognized as being unfair.  I wonder how many girls had similar experiences such as yours and then decided, for whatever reasons, not to fight back and assert themselves as you have done. :( 

So what's the best way to fight against gender bias, as well as a myriad of other biases plaguing humanity right now?  Personally, I'm a big fan of a secular liberal arts education --exploring as many directions of thought as possible.  Give everything a fair hearing, and then let the chips fall where they may.  So far I see this form of education as giving humanity the best chance of reaching its full potential.  If this is so, humanity sure have a long way to go...

Now, what's the best way to get gals to use Peppermint?  What do you think?  Might it be too late, as everything becomes more and more cloud-based over time?  With my own family, thanks in part due to our experiences with Web TV in the past, and a Chromebook now, I have to remind others over and over again that updating an OS is essential for its security and its functionality.  Now as platforms become more and more cloud-based, updating occurs in the background.  It seems to me as if fewer and fewer people want to deal with updates these days.  Could updating itself be what's holding back Linux for the desktop now?  Could it be that now, due in part to an historical accident discussed above, that the guys who are into Linux are here to stay, but that the gals won't be coming to us after all?   Although females have more access to a leveler playing field today regarding computers than ever before, the new perception for both guys and gals --even if incorrect-- is that OSes that update in the background are the way to go now? :-\
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on February 05, 2017, 02:40:17 pm
What supports what I'm saying here is also the fact the this forum is overflowing with people asking for an advice how to make P7 work. What workaround they should try and what command in terminal might help to fix the issue. Thank goodness for the forum ! I've found so many helpful contributors namely Mark Greaves from top of my head.

So yeah I dare to say you're lucky fella  ;)

Of course you'll find people asking for support on a SUPPORT FORUM .. the vast majority of people with no issues are unlikely to post are they ???

Doesn't mean what you see here is representative of how Peppermint works for the majority.

I'd stop building it if I thought that were the case.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on February 05, 2017, 04:36:53 pm
What supports what I'm saying here is also Thank goodness for the forum ! I've found so many helpful contributors namely Mark Greaves from top of my head.

Absolutely, MarkUK!   I'll also be forever grateful for the ways Kendall Weaver (https://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) and Shane Remington (https://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2) envisioned Peppermint and Peppermint's forum.  I love the way Peppermint was conceptualized --light and web-centric.  And, even after all these years, I still can't imagine a better place to be online than right here within Peppermint's forum.  It remains, by far, my favorite place to be on the Web!  :)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on February 05, 2017, 04:37:39 pm
Good talk lady & gents ......   :)

Let me just ask you LNXlady .. since you're running P7 did you have to tweak your system before you got it working the way you want ? Meaning .... it's a general knowledge that unlike Windows Linux does deal with incompatibilities with computer's hardware. Simply 'coz the crushing majority of computers on the market are designed to be operated under Windows. And Linux devs do their best to share their knowledge on how to eliminate those bugs.

Was your P7 up and ready out of the box or did you have to play with the terminal a bit to get it in shape  ?

When I installed it on my laptop it was perfect from first boot but on my desktop I had to switch to a newer kernel to get the correct screen resolution. I've installed Linux many times on many computers over the years and I have rarely had hardware issues. A few times, but most times it hasn't been a problem. I've never had a piece of hardware that I couldn't eventually get working with Linux with help from forums or searching the internet.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on February 05, 2017, 04:46:54 pm
snip...

What supports what I'm saying here is also the fact the this forum is overflowing with people asking for an advice how to make P7 work. What workaround they should try and what command in terminal might help to fix the issue. T

If you visit a Windows forum, you will find it overflowing with people asking for advice on how to make that work, too. Any time a Windows user adds a new piece of hardware, they are subject to the same problems.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on February 05, 2017, 04:56:27 pm

Me too, LNXlady.  Me too.  What's more we have to realize our parents were influenced by the culture in which they grew up in too.  And on and on it goes until something changes the pattern.  I'm just glad you fought back when you were so young against adult behavior that you clearly recognized as being unfair.  I wonder how many girls had similar experiences such as yours and then decided, for whatever reasons, not to fight back and assert themselves as you have done. :( 

So what's the best way to fight against gender bias, as well as a myriad of other biases plaguing humanity right now?  Personally, I'm a big fan of a secular liberal arts education --exploring as many directions of thought as possible.  Give everything a fair hearing, and then let the chips fall where they may.  So far I see this form of education as giving humanity the best chance of reaching its full potential.  If this is so, humanity sure have a long way to go...

Now, what's the best way to get gals to use Peppermint?  What do you think?  Might it be too late, as everything becomes more and more cloud-based over time?  With my own family, thanks in part due to our experiences with Web TV in the past, and a Chromebook now, I have to remind others over and over again that updating an OS is essential for its security and its functionality.  Now as platforms become more and more cloud-based, updating occurs in the background.  It seems to me as if fewer and fewer people want to deal with updates these days.  Could updating itself be what's holding back Linux for the desktop now?  Could it be that now, due in part to an historical accident discussed above, that the guys who are into Linux are here to stay, but that the gals won't be coming to us after all?   Although females have more access to a leveler playing field today regarding computers than ever before, the new perception for both guys and gals --even if incorrect-- is that OSes that update in the background are the way to go now? :-\

I hope not.  My new Pixel phone updates in the background instead of asking my permission first and I find it really  annoying. I can't tell it to wait until I have a wifi connection like I used to. A friend asked on Facebook a few days ago what to do when your computer decides to install 51 updates. My reply - Well, there's something wrong if the computer is making the decisions instead of the user. ;) But maybe you'll get lucky and it will decide to make you some coffee while you wait.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on February 05, 2017, 05:09:18 pm
...there's something wrong if the computer is making the decisions instead of the user. ;)


Yeah, there is something wrong, but it does seem to be direction in which things are headed.

But maybe you'll get lucky and it will decide to make you some coffee while you wait.

Wouldn't that be nice?  Hey, with the IoT, I'm bet that will be coming soon.  ;)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on February 05, 2017, 05:12:30 pm
...there's something wrong if the computer is making the decisions instead of the user. ;)


Yeah, there is something wrong, but it does seem to be direction in which things are headed.

But maybe you'll get lucky and it will decide to make you some coffee while you wait.

Wouldn't that be nice?  Hey, with the IoT, I'm bet that will be coming soon.  ;)

LOL, you're probably right! Alexa, make me some coffee. Please?!
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on February 05, 2017, 05:26:13 pm
LOL, you're probably right! Alexa, make me some coffee. Please?!

Since you're Peppermint's LNXlady, don't you think it would only be poetically just to drop the final a on Alexa and have Alex make a cup of coffee for you instead?  How's that idea sound to you?  ;)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on February 05, 2017, 05:31:33 pm
LOL, you're probably right! Alexa, make me some coffee. Please?!

Since you're Peppermint's LNXlady, don't you think it would only be poetically just to drop the final a on Alexa and have Alex make a cup of coffee for you instead?  How's that idea sound to you?  ;)

Sounds good to me. I'm more of a tea girl, myself. Alex, make me a cup of tea, cream no sugar. Please?!  :D 
I think the IoT is very cool in theory but I'm not so sure about in practice. Seems like it could be a security nightmare. I'm not sure Asimov would approve, either.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on February 05, 2017, 05:46:04 pm
Nor Orwell .. even he didn't foresee your toaster/toilet/kettle spying on you.
(IIRC at least there was a corner you could hide in)

The world isn't ready for the IoT yet, systems are FAR too vulnerable at the present.
https://www.wired.com/2016/08/jeep-hackers-return-high-speed-steering-acceleration-hacks/
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: spence on February 06, 2017, 02:14:29 pm
Sorry, gentlemen, but we're discussing females here --and AOL doesn't quite cut it!  How the heck did we go from females to AOL?   That's a question I DON'T want to know the answer to!  ;D

Not really off topic, I don't have any female family members with any interest in computers at all...  I was relaying my youthful agreement with them. Its nothing more than educational/familial/societal programming. Which gets reinforced in schools where kids all follow their friends'  lead in class choices. One of my neices is already complaining that her 2nd grade daughter wants to quit participating in gym class. "All the other girls are excused to sit aside and read books Mom, I'm the only girl going to gym class"... All those girls parents have submitted written non-participation requests, thereby setting in motion some different expectations between their daughters & sons... ... ... 

It seems to be a lost concept to have self determination about one's own education anymore, more herd instincts of late. Even my nephews worried about what their friends would think about their class choices, or only wanted to be in classes where their friends were... ... ... ... we may have made the same mistakes in our own pasts  >:( 

I think most kids, male or female, going to college these days are wasting their time and their parents money... Maybe college should be delayed until after they've set themselves free of the worry about what their friends will think about everything they're interested in... ... ...
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: spence on February 06, 2017, 02:21:33 pm
Not really .. I haven't used it in ages, but I may again at some point so I'll leave the contact intact for now :)

I don't really do Skype or Google Talk either .. but still have accounts (I think).

Maybe I just keep those icons on the left because they put me in mind of military ribbons, and make me look like some kind of high ranking hero type :))

I was also very into ICQ back when it first arrived... a cool Israeli start up which put AOL messenger to shame. Now its a Russian owned entity. I did try recently to reclaim my number/account which I thought I'd closed ages ago. Apparently it is still out there, but I haven't been successful in wresting control of it so far. I've never used skype, nor google talk...
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on February 06, 2017, 02:46:27 pm
Sorry about that sentence, Spence.  Nobody by nobody in this forum goes more off-topic than me/I. (Take your pick.) Who was I to talk? ::) 

Believe it or not, I live in a neighborhood where the children still play outside.  But, I know we're losing Phys Ed in schools.  I weighed today at an all-time high.  Never mind the kids, I've got to get moving.  I hear you.  And, regarding higher education, on one hand we want our kids to grew up before they continue their higher learning, and on the hand we need to have an educated work force who can compete with the rest of the world.  I'm, personally, for K-16, or its equivalent, these days.  I believe our educational system is antiquated.  It's perhaps a hundred years behind times, as is our health care system, I might add.  What a mess! :-\

Unfortunately that sentence I wrote is now stuck there in amber.  Sorry about saying that, Spence and Mac. :-[
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: mac on February 06, 2017, 03:07:02 pm
No problem here, Perk.  Hijacking is illegal, anyway, isn't it?   :D

cheers
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: spence on February 06, 2017, 03:12:37 pm
yeah, what Mac said... apologias necessitas nada...  ::)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on February 06, 2017, 03:32:27 pm
No problem here, Perk.  Hijacking is illegal, anyway, isn't it?   :D

Thank you, Gents.  Yes hijacking is illegal, even though I've heard you can get a lot of loot out of it if it's done correctly. ;) 

That said, you're never going to see me jump out of an airplane.  I'm the guy who would grab the backpack instead of the parachute, I'm sure. ;D
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on February 07, 2017, 09:49:17 am
I got an update email this morning from a non-tech blogger I follow saying that her 6th grade daughter has been picked as Technology Captain at her school. I don't know what that entails but it shows definite female interest. As for getting more women interested in Peppermint specifically, I don't know. I don't think Peppermint's reputation has caught up with its reality. People (those who know it exists) still think of it as cloud based and light, only for when you need an OS for something old or slow. Reviews always mention that it is cloud based and light.  Well, a lot of us don't need something cloud based and light so it doesn't sound like the best option. It isn't really being marketed as beautiful and efficient and flexible as well as fast, which it is. It is never mentioned that it's great for those who don't use any of the cloud based software because you can install anything you like and use it anyway you want. I can't speak for all women but in general we want the best in all things. We are very good at making do with less than the best but if given a choice, we want the diamonds.  :)

I think most people come to Linux because they are not satisfied with what they have been using and want something better, but first they have to know that there IS something better.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: mac on February 07, 2017, 10:06:08 am
but first they have to know that there IS something better.

Good point, LNXlady.  I stumbled across Linux out of frustration with Windows back in the 90s.  I didn't even know it existed until I just happened to see a commercially packaged copy of Mandrake on the shelf at one of the big-box stores.  Most of my friends had never heard of Linux, either, and those who had advised me to stay away from it because it was difficult and had a lot of problems (this from Windows users).   Still today when I mention Linux the usual response is "What's that?" 

My point is that most Windows users, as you said, don't know there is something better and most Linux users don't how much better Peppermint really is.   We are definitely misunderstood.  But, then, greatness usually is.  Ha!   :D

cheers
mac
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on February 07, 2017, 10:14:20 am
It doesn't help that the Linux/Tech press keep using outdated info for their articles .. seems research is an outdated concept with a lot of the tech press these days :(

I've said it before, but I've NEVER had a single member of the tech press contact me before posting an article.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: mac on February 07, 2017, 10:18:23 am
It doesn't help that the Linux/Tech press keep using outdated info for their articles .. seems research is an outdated concept with a lot of the tech press these days :(

True 'dat....pretty much across the board.  You have to do your own research, these days, and try it out yourself.    Most (real) Linux people would do that, anyway.    :D

cheers
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on February 07, 2017, 10:24:49 am
It doesn't help that the Linux/Tech press keep using outdated info for their articles .. seems research is an outdated concept with a lot of the tech press these days :(

I've said it before, but I've NEVER had a single member of the tech press contact me before posting an article.

That's crazy. No wonder they don't seem to know what they are talking about. I've been having trouble finding anything I'd even call a review on any of the distros, lately. I get very frustrated when I click on a Youtube "review" only to find it is just a screencast of someone clicking around on the menus. That is NOT a review! And you can't do a review on something you haven't really used. I suppose the Peppermint team and its real users will have to be the ones to get the word out, somehow.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: murraymint on February 07, 2017, 10:31:57 am
Ah, but if you say up front "this is not a review", and then it kind of is a review but it's really just someone breaking/deleting their panel on a YouTube video...  I forget if I had a point to this :D

Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: PCNetSpec on February 07, 2017, 10:33:12 am
LOL :))
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on February 07, 2017, 10:34:59 am
Ah, but if you say up front "this is not a review", and then it kind of is a review but it's really just someone breaking/deleting their panel on a YouTube video...  I forget if I had a point to this :D

LOL, I think we've been watching the same videos.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on February 07, 2017, 10:52:21 am
I think most people come to Linux because they are not satisfied with what they have been using and want something better, but first they have to know that there IS something better.

Hi LNXlady,

I don't think we'll see a mass exodus of gals coming over to Peppermint, or Linux in general.  I'm now working on the premise, that many girls had experiences that mirrored yours, and that half our society got caught up in an unusual historical accident.  Many girls missed the entry point of using Linux.  Also, I still believe that updating is an issue.  Although updating one's computer is no big thing at all, I don't know many people who like doing it any more.  Cloud computing seems to be taking over the mass market.

This said, the girls who really get into computer science and robotics will discover Linux.  We'll get those gals, for sure.  And, that "6th grade daughter [who] has been picked as Technology Captain at her school", she's on her way to discovering LInux too --especially with you in her camp.  She'll make it, I'm sure. :)

perknh
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: LNXlady on February 07, 2017, 11:35:08 am
I think most people come to Linux because they are not satisfied with what they have been using and want something better, but first they have to know that there IS something better.

Hi LNXlady,

I don't think we'll see a mass exodus of gals coming over to Peppermint, or Linux in general.  I'm now working on the premise, that many girls had experiences that mirrored yours, and that half our society got caught up in an unusual historical accident.  Many girls missed the entry point of using Linux.  Also, I still believe that updating is an issue.  Although updating one's computer is no big thing at all, I don't know many people who like doing it any more.  Cloud computing seems to be taking over the mass market.

This said, the girls who really get into computer science and robotics will discover Linux.  We'll get those gals, for sure.  And, that "6th grade daughter [who] has been picked as Technology Captain at her school", she's on her way to discovering LInux too --especially with you in her camp.  She'll make it, I'm sure. :)

perknh

You are right but we don't need a mass exodus. We just need a few good ones. Those few will make sure that their sisters and friends and eventually their daughters and nieces know there is a choice. ;)
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: perknh on February 07, 2017, 11:46:23 am
You are right but we don't need a mass exodus. We just need a few good ones. Those few will make sure that their sisters and friends and eventually their daughters and nieces know there is a choice. ;)

That's true.  That is all it would take.  In time, the gals will be here.  I hope I'll get to see this happen.
Title: Re: Females using Peppermint ?
Post by: Pikolo on February 14, 2017, 05:36:23 pm
I wonder how many people will still have PCs in 10 years. I always knew tablets were a dead end, but they only started dying when Chromebooks got Android apps. The PC market is shrinking, despite the milions of people bridging the digital divide yearly.

I'm dubious we'll see a lot more Linux users. A bigger share of computer users, sure. But what I'm seeing is people who use computers as typewriters. Phones handle internet browsing, which is increasingly going through apps. I'm increasingly worried that there won't be enough people, who know how stuff works, before we get AI to manage software for us