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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: perknh on October 02, 2016, 06:56:59 pm

Title: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: perknh on October 02, 2016, 06:56:59 pm
WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share

By Wayne Williams

http://betanews.com/2016/10/01/wtf-windows-10-losing-share/ (http://betanews.com/2016/10/01/wtf-windows-10-losing-share/)

I can't say that I'm too surprised at this news.  Even though it was free, my short-lived experiment with Windows 10 wasn't particularly pleasant. 
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: VinDSL on October 02, 2016, 07:00:00 pm
Reposted on LinkedIn.

Thx !  ;)
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: scifidude79 on October 02, 2016, 09:26:37 pm
This was to be expected once the "free" copies stopped rolling out, whether or not people wanted them.  People are probably going back to Windows 7.
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: VinDSL on October 02, 2016, 10:22:38 pm
I never saw winders 8/8.1 in the wild, but ...

Didn't ppl like that ?  Why are they switching back to winders 7  :-\
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: zebedeeboss on October 03, 2016, 12:46:05 am
I never saw winders 8/8.1 in the wild, but ...

Didn't ppl like that ?  Why are they switching back to winders 7  :-\

They hated the "Metro" interface of 8.0 and the mickey mouse menu of 8.1 did not satisfy them...

Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: scifidude79 on October 03, 2016, 01:31:24 am
Why are they switching back to winders 7  :-\

Because it has a regular desktop interface, not that stupid mobile crap.  Too bad they don't know how awesome Linux is.
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: GNULINUX on October 03, 2016, 04:10:13 am
I think we should thank M$ for Windows 10 and hope it's indeed their last OS...  :D

This was to be expected once the "free" copies stopped rolling out, whether or not people wanted them.  People are probably going back to Windows 7.
Like you say, after they stopped forcing it on their own consumers the growth stopped...

Why are they switching back to winders 7  :-\

Because it has a regular desktop interface, not that stupid mobile crap.  Too bad they don't know how awesome Linux is.
Some of them do know!  8)
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: acer on October 03, 2016, 05:07:19 am
[Rant start]  >:(

As an MS OS user since windows for workgroups 3.11 on a 486DX2 66MHz CPU with 2Mb Ram  Good! Serves them right!

Considering that Win 8 was a transition period combining PC/Tablet interface to work in conjunction with mobile phones, and all beyond that MS has stuck with it, I'm not surprised a bit.
Karma is taking place at MS.  ;D

Win XP & Win7 will always be the best home-user OSes MS has produced but, the new rollout patch scheme starting this month will put an end to the Win7 legacy.
Their QA dept is non existant when it comes to windows update since the introduction of win 10.
MS stuck on belated mobile tech/interface that they were far too late to adopt again..(Googles domination of the search engine) MS missed that boat too.

I tried and hated Windows 10 malware for about a fortnight, an OS in a straight jacket!
So back to win7 and closed all the portals to GWX campaign and now windows updates.
I use the catalogue and download individual patches when and only if needed.

Note: I'm not an MS hater, just disillusioned with their ethics, resorting to corporate malware, virtually no QA dept and forced downgrades to Win 10
[Rant over]
Feel much better now  ;D
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: rjm65 on October 03, 2016, 08:16:34 am
I never switched I stayed with windows 7, it is the best windows they ever made...
With the problems my aunt is having with windows 10 upgrade right now, I don't think I will ever try it because it is not stable at all...  After 6 hours of trying to get it to connect to the internet I finally called Verizon DSL and they tested the modem, and they told me there is a device on the router that is causing the problem....  that device was the only device hooked to the router her tower with windows 10...  as soon as I unplugged the lan cable from the windows ten tower, the two laptops popped right online again....   The tech guy at verizon claimed the windows ten upgrade we did on the machine was the problem, and he suggested I download the full version of win 10 and do a clean install for her... However I am going to take my windows 7 disc along for the ride to my aunts house, in case she wants to go back to windows 7 again....   ;)
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: perknh on October 03, 2016, 09:07:41 am
I'd say that Spencer Rhodes' first couple of sentences, which can be found buried in the comment section below the article, pretty much summed up my experience with Windows 10.   

Quote
People asking their tech savvy friends what this Linux stuff is all about after win 10 updates and reboots at a very inopportune time or they get sick of Cortana constantly trying to be oh so helpful all the time. Or my favorite: they log on after an update and find all the dumb***[Edit mine] bloatware that they uninstalled has been reinstalled by windows updater, because of course you want Skype, you must've uninstalled it by mistake, not to worry friend we'll fix that for ya. --Spencer Rhodes

Really, who wants that experience?  In my case I wanted Skype --not Skype Preview-- so I had to uninstall Skype Preview and then install Skype from online.  But he's right; every time you go back to your programs, you see that new programs have been installed without your permission.  I suffer much less using Skype's 2014 version 4.3.0.37 in Linux than using Windows 10 with Skype's latest version.

Also, let's not forget that Windows 10 still needs an antivirus program too.  Yeah, it's included in the software, but that fact that you need one is disconcerting.  Its builtin firewall appears to have plenty of holes, or exceptions, too.  Speaking only for myself after using Linux for several years, my experience with Windows 10 felt a little bit creepy.
Title: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: Pikolo on October 03, 2016, 09:55:49 am
I believe that we're seeing a dawn of Windows. Most people I know use it for 3 reasons:
a) that's what they know
b) that's where the games are
c) that's what the PC came with

Windows 8 broke part a. Steam and Vulkan are breaking b. C is the biggest problem for the forseeable future, one that got much more important with the rise of laptops.

As for me, I had Win XP on my first PC, in 2004. It worked, games worked, no problems. We got it upgraded to Vista, had some hardware upgrades. It still works, even though it chuggs a lot slower these days.
My laptop, in 2013, came with Windows 8 on it. I hated that thing with passion. Windows 8.1 upgrade made it much more acceptable, and I didn't really think there were alternatives. My father showed me Ubuntu in a VM, but none of my games were on it, so I just accepted the fate. SuperKey+X and a handful of shortcuts was what I used instead of Start menu(I only when to Metro interface by misclicks  ;D and the reader app. It had decent TTS integration).
Then 2015 brought along a "free" Windows 10 update. I finally tried it during winter break in 2016, hoping it would be back to things I respected. Vista for one, or Windows 7 which people praised, even though I've actually never had on my gear. Oh, boy this things was SLOOOOOOOOW. Seriously, I know that i3 and 4 GB RAM might not be that high end, but why would the system menus lag? This was unnacceptable, so I went back to Win8.
Before upgrading to Windows 10, I read a bit about it. for some reason, one of the articles mentioned a guy called RMS. I've been subscribed to his blog ever since. From Stallman, I ran into Distrowatch, where I lurked for 5 months, reading reviews and trying to understand what Linux was. I ran into Peppermint, and a bit as a detox after Win10 bloat, installed a lightweight system. And here I am, not going back.

I'm also NOT going to install windows to any of my grandpas&mas and grandmas who want to go digital, but I'm still not sure about the distribution they could work with. I'd put PeppermintOS for them, but the language barrier is too big(they don't speak English), and not enough parts of the OS are translated. Especially the settings screens are half translated and it's far from ideal. I'll probably give them Mint, or vanilla Ubuntu, as all they ever need is Firefox+LO+PDFviewer+photo viewer, none of which are hard to come by, and the automatic updates on Linux will significantly ease my maintenance time. I think they might even be taught to do that by themselves.

As for people my age(teens, early 20s), we'll see Windows start seriously loosing market share when Vulkan completely replaces DirectX. For now, going to Linux means giving up 75% of your games. When that's <30%, they'll switch. I can see that every time Windows update kicks into the middle of their session, they cringe. Step by step, they'll make the change happen.
And once it does, it will snowball.
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: PCNetSpec on October 03, 2016, 10:48:22 am
Translations for the Peppermint 'parts' is something I'm planning, but I doubt if it'll happen in Peppermint 7 .. maybe 8 :)
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: scifidude79 on October 03, 2016, 11:17:09 am
b) that's where the games are

Unfortunately, that is still mainly true.  Are there games for Linux?  Sure there are.  There are even some exceptional ones.  However, Valve was the main reason that a lot of big developers started looking at Linux.  First, they developed Steam for Linux, which is fantastic.  Then they even released their own Linux-based OS and their own "consoles."  (low profile PCs that look like game consoles and run SteamOS)  Unfortunately, SteamOS is based on Debian stable, which has issues, especially if you like current software, which isn't usually present in the stable releases, not even at the time of release.  Plus, SteamOS is a very specialized version of Debian, with a focus on gaming.  It runs Steam by default in Big Picture mode.  So, most people who run it will be ignorant of the other benefits of Linux.  However, if they had really continued development, SteamOS could have been great.

Unfortunately, Valve has the collective attention span of a gnat.  Since Steam runs on Win8/8.1 and Win10, (albeit not without issues, according to the massive amount of threads on the Steam forums) Valve has pretty much stopped pushing Linux.  Since their initial release last year, they've even stopped pushing their Steam Machines.  All they seem to be focused on right now is VR.  ::)  About 99.8% of all computer VR games are being developed for Windows only.

Another issue not in favor of gaming on Linux is the "most popular" distributions.  I see more people on the Steam forums having issues with games not running correctly in Mint and Ubuntu than anything else.  Of course, that could simply be because they are such popular distributions and more people are running them, or it could be something else.  If memory serves, I have had issues with Steam on Mint, but it's been ages since I tried to run it.  I have no issues at all with Steam on Peppermint.  However, people have these issues and think Linux isn't good for gaming, so they go back to Windows.  Others see all of the threads where people are having issues and (completely ignoring the 100x as many threads with people having issues on Windows) stay with Windows.

So, with no driving force behind them, most major game studios are still ignoring Linux.  Even indie developers, who would do well on Linux, don't seem to be paying much attention to Linux.  So, we still see the major trends in gaming staying the same:  Everyone develops for Windows.  Of those, a small percentage develop for Mac OS.  Even less develop for Linux.

It's a frustrating situation, but it's not like there aren't games for Linux.  I have many in my ever increasing Linux library.  The issue is, getting gamers to let go of that ability to buy and run any game that has been released.
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: PCNetSpec on October 03, 2016, 11:26:23 am
Ah, but I think Pikolo's point was - If/when game houses start making games for Vulkan rather than DirectX, porting Windows games that leverage Vulkan to Linux / OS X should be trivial for the devs ;)

That may even be what Steam are waiting for (?)
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: perknh on October 03, 2016, 11:31:13 am
Hi PCNetSpec,

Which distribution would you suggest for the language considerations of Pikolo's grandparents as well as their need for ease of use?

I'm guessing that Ubuntu probably would have Pikolo's grandparents language needs covered.  For ease of use, I still think that Ubuntu's Unity is as simple as simple can be right out of the box.  A lot of people like Mint's Cinnamon DE, but I don't believe it's easier to use than Ubuntu's default Unity UI --but Mint Cinnamon edition does look and feel more like Windows 7.

In rjm65's case, concerning ease of use for his aunt, I don't know about Windows 10.  I never tried Windows 10 with Cortana.  I don't know if Cortana makes computing easier or not.  :-\  It's an intrusive program, I know that for certain.  rjm65, if you're reading this, and if your aunt wants to continue using Windows, keep that Windows 7 disc nearby. ;)

perknh

@scifidude79

I thought Steam OS was going to be the bridge to better gaming in Linux.  This sure is a bummer reading what you and Pikolo have to say about gaming in Linux.  I say this because gamers are often on the cutting edge of computing.  I don't want to see Windows monopolizing anything, including gaming.

Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: PCNetSpec on October 03, 2016, 11:36:41 am
That would depend on the hardware perknh .. probably Xubuntu or Mint Xfce .. light(ish) but fully featured.
(my respect for Xfce is growing daily .. as VinDSL put it 'it has a lot of hidden gems, that just keep giving')

But its not my decision .. Xfce might not suit either the hardware or grandparents ;)

[EDIT]

And NO, don't anyone read too much into that .. we already have most of the best bits from Xfce in Peppermint.
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: Pikolo on October 03, 2016, 12:01:38 pm
I'm guessing that Ubuntu probably would have Pikolo's grandparents language needs covered.  For ease of use, I still think that Ubuntu's Unity is as simple as simple can be right out of the box.

I thought Steam OS was going to be the bridge to better gaming in Linux.  This sure is a bummer reading what you and Pikolo have to say about gaming in Linux.  I say this because gamers are often on the cutting edge of computing.  I don't want to see Windows monopolizing anything, including gaming.

I used to play 2 games: World of Tanks and War Thunder.
 WoT released an official tutorial, how to run it with Wine... 2 years ago. I tried following it with the updated components, and failed. I tried with Play on Linux, failed again and gave up. After all, it's games that should seek after players, right?
 WT on the other hand is heavily focused on being portable. They support 7 types of hardware, including SteamOS, Steam ran on Linux and a standalone Linux version, except it's not a .deb file, no that would be too much to ask for ;) It runs on minimal settings, similarly to it's Windows performance(thx Intel HD! No irony here, GJ for making it work so well), but that's just because my laptop isn't meant for games.
If you follow OMG Ubuntu, new games are releasing Linux versions daily, and newer games usually have them right from full release(alpha/beta releases on Linux are something I've yet to see). They usually have 40% lower performance compared to DirectX implementations, and this is especially relevant on machines that have to choose between 30 FPS and medium settings

My grandparents are Polish, and I know the language is available on Ubuntu. They even have a polish portal(http://ubuntu.pl/), albeit the language on it is very... stiff? formal? artificially sounding for sure. But correct and understandable. Unfortunately, I don't know how well is the system translated.
Some programs are translated better than the others, for example Open Office(haven't bothered to upgrade it to since before the LO fork) has a beautiful translation.
I tried using Peppermint in Polish and gave up quickly. The translation is half-done and leads to a lot of confusion. Translation is something that Linux has catching up to do, or at least so I though. My Vista is 100% in Polish. My grandparents Windows 7 is a mix, and if not for Team Viewer, they would need to seek a local professional. But if Windows continues to degrade, that will make the barrier of entry ever lower.
BTW, if you need help with the translation PCNetSpec, I should be able to help. I'm on the first year cybersecurity, so I should get the basics of OS inner workings by winter

The DE performance doesn't matter that much, though I'd probably try to get them Cinnamon as it looks similar to what they consider a desktop. Unless I'm missing something, the default XFCE layout mirrors the OSX shell
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: PCNetSpec on October 03, 2016, 12:38:50 pm
Default in Xubuntu may mirror OS X as far as having a dockbar and panel at the top .. Mint Xfce on the other hand, well see for yourself in this screenshot tour ;)
http://news.softpedia.com/news/linux-mint-17-3-rosa-xfce-screenshot-tour-498731.shtml#sgal_0

That said Cinnamon is a good DE too, if a little heavy.
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: emegra on October 03, 2016, 02:23:17 pm
Hi Pikolo

If you're looking for a Polish language distro Sparky Linux might be worth a look, it's Polish in origin although I've never used it myself but it seems to get good reviews and as far as I understand do LXDE, OpenBox, E17 & MATE, versions


http://sparkylinux.org/



Graeme
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: scifidude79 on October 03, 2016, 11:22:24 pm
That may even be what Steam are waiting for (?)

@scifidude79

I thought Steam OS was going to be the bridge to better gaming in Linux.  This sure is a bummer reading what you and Pikolo have to say about gaming in Linux.  I say this because gamers are often on the cutting edge of computing.  I don't want to see Windows monopolizing anything, including gaming.

Unfortunately, there seems to be more of an anti-Linux vibe at Steam these days.  Steam has a mechanic built into it where it's supposed to only show you games in the OS of your choice.  It doesn't work.  Indeed, it even has really frustrating things it does.  For example, if I choose to look at New Releases, it automatically has Windows and Mac OS filters activated, making me deactivate them and choose the Linux filter.  And, this happens when running the Steam client on Linux.  Similarly, we used to be able to filter our Discovery Queues to show us only games in our OS of choice, they did away with that.  Anymore, mine is full of mainly Windows games.  ::)  Many of us have pointed out these flaws, but Valve doesn't care enough to do anything about it.  That plus their treatment of Steam OS makes me doubt their commitment to Linux.

When they first brought out Steam for Linux and ported all of their games over, they were afraid that Steam wouldn't run on Win8.  However, it does and it runs on Win10.  So, I think their priorities have shifted.  Now all they seem to care about is VR. ::)

Windows 10 losing in the market share race may be a shot in the arm for Linux and Linux gaming, or it may not.  It's hard to say.  Win7 has support until 2020.  Plus, some people apparently don't care about that.  There are still people using XP. :o
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: scifidude79 on October 05, 2016, 10:00:36 am
Hm, Valve appears to have fixed some of those issues.  That or it's a fluke.  My Discovery Queue today was full of only games available for Linux.  I also hit "New Releases" and it appropriately had the OS filter for SteamOS/Linux activated.  Maybe they do give a crap.  *shrugs*

Though, they broke at least one other thing on there, so...
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: VinDSL on February 16, 2018, 06:09:51 am
WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share

I know, I know ... Welcome to 2016; but I thought it was time to revisit this thread.  ;D

In my (principle) workplace, they're finally converting 10s of 1000s of W7P desktop machines to W10P.

Truthfully, and surprisingly, I haven't heard any complaints. I think '10' has finally come of age.

Personally, I'm beta testing 'Redstone 5' now. I don't know HOW it happened.

I've been on 'Fast Ring' since its inception, but during my last update, they skipped me ahead to 'Skip Ahead (Build 17604) (https://goo.gl/QQzy2d)'.

There are only so many seats available on the 'Skip Ahead' Buildfeed, so I'm pleasantly surprised.

Basically, I'm running the Fall Edition now, with ‘Ultimate Performance’ mode for power users (https://goo.gl/9Q4Tae), ReFS, beta apps and all that.

Things are likely to get shaky, but that's okay. I really don't NEED winders for anything except the MS Office Suite.

Anyway, I judge '10' is here to stay. Peppermint OS + W10P (dual-booted) is a wicked combination. ...  8)
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: PCNetSpec on February 16, 2018, 10:57:23 am
Quote
Truthfully, and surprisingly, I haven't heard any complaints. I think '10' has finally come of age.

And yet I've had a plethora of calls this week from people who's audio has disappeared after an update .. Win10 routinely breaks stuf, or undoes user system settings on updates.
(sure the Windows audio troubleshooter fixes the issue .. but that's buried in the stupid new "settings" panel thingy)

I don't remember breakage and settings being reset being "the norm" in Win7.
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: VinDSL on February 16, 2018, 12:48:29 pm
I'm not a winders user, so I can't really say. I just like to Toy with it, for something different to do.

The only machine I have to maintain is the missus', and usually it's a matter of PEBCAK.

I wouldn't want to depend on it for anything mission-critical.

Then, there's the anti-virus software ... LoL!

I was curious how I got moved to 'Skip Ahead' - that's all. Seems like an odd fluke; if it was a fluke.  :-\
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: PCNetSpec on February 16, 2018, 01:09:51 pm
If it weren't for updates continually breaking things and undoing user settings I think Win10 would be a major "hit" with Windows users, and they;d MUCH prefer it over 7

But that's not what i'm seeing/hearing .. I'm constantly hearing "damn updates broke it again" .. and I can't even turn updates off.

If users are wanting to disable updates, something is SERIOUSLY wrong.

I've come across people "living with" issues like no sound/touchpad/messed up screen resolution/etc. because they don't know how to fix the issues themselves and are fed up with having to pay someone to "fix" their PC every couple of weeks ::)
(and the people paid to fix the issue can't make it permanent even if they wanted to)

This is not me doing the anti-Microsoft/Windows dance (personally I couldn't care less) .. it's what I'm hearing and seeing from Windows users.
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: spence on February 16, 2018, 01:57:21 pm
Why are they switching back to winders 7  :-\

Because it has a regular desktop interface, not that stupid mobile crap.  Too bad they don't know how awesome Linux is.

They all use linux... but don't know it on all of their cellphones, almost none of my family and friends use anything but their cellphones anymore...
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: VinDSL on February 16, 2018, 07:27:00 pm
I'm constantly hearing "damn updates broke it again" .. and I can't even turn updates off.

I guess I live a blessed life  ;)

I have pretty much left winders 10 alone ... except for giving it a Peppermint Seven makeover.

'Redstone 5' Preview with Peppermint OS Seven Theme
(http://vindsl.com/images/VinDSL_Capture_16-February-2018.PNG)
[close]

'10' comes with more options OOTB than I'll ever need or use. And, Dell and Intel do a good job of updating the drivers/BIOS.

I've done numerous (what we call) distro-upgrades, and the only thing that 'breaks' is the ancient trackpad software that I prefer.

Peppermint and '10' are both running with UEFI and Secure Boot enabled, without any issues,et cetera.

Maybe that will all change now on the ''Skip Ahead' Buildfeed. Only time will tell.

In the meantime, here's to swimming with bow-legged women ...   8)


https://youtu.be/sl03NlOZYnQ
Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: VinDSL on February 16, 2018, 07:46:04 pm
They all use linux... but don't know it on all of their cellphones, almost none of my family and friends use anything but their cellphones anymore...

Funny you should mention cellphones.

This 'Redstone 5' build allows users to create and use a PIN to login, instead of a password, just like on cellphones.

Technically speaking, it's two factor auth, e.g.  both Username/Password + PIN, but who's counting?

Maybe this feature has always been there, and I didn't "know it", but now it asks if you want it enabled. I Did. LoL!  :D

I'll take a PIN over a password any day. Why? The same reason I use a PIN on my cellphone ...


(http://vindsl.com/images/PINvsPassword.png)

Title: Re: WTF? Windows 10 now actually losing market share
Post by: scifidude79 on February 16, 2018, 08:07:03 pm
Why are they switching back to winders 7  :-\

Because it has a regular desktop interface, not that stupid mobile crap.  Too bad they don't know how awesome Linux is.

They all use linux... but don't know it on all of their cellphones, almost none of my family and friends use anything but their cellphones anymore...

Unless they have an iPhone.  iOS is most definitely not Linux.