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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: zebedeeboss on May 25, 2016, 02:24:43 am

Title: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: zebedeeboss on May 25, 2016, 02:24:43 am
https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/67367/upgradegate-microsofts-upgrade-deceptions-undermining-windows-10 (https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/67367/upgradegate-microsofts-upgrade-deceptions-undermining-windows-10)

Another riveting good yarn...  Microsoft would be better off employing "Dumb and Dumber" instead of a Marketing Dept.   OH Wait!   It looks like they already are...

Regards Zeb

ps. Couldn't resist the urge in the topic title  :P   
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: AndyInMokum on May 25, 2016, 03:38:17 am
Microsoft's unethical approach towards its users, is really shameful.  If smaller, less influential companies behaved like this.  It would be the prelude to their failure.  Not so for M$.  Deceitful business practice is the key to increased profits for them.  For those who care, it looks like Steve Gibson to the rescue - top man  ;)!
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: zebedeeboss on May 25, 2016, 03:48:24 am
Microsoft's unethical approach towards its users, is really shameful.  If smaller, less influential companies behaved like this.  It would be the prelude to their failure.  Not so for M$.  Deceitful business practice is the key to increased profits for them.  For those who care, it looks like Steve Gibson to the rescue - top man  ;) !

Hi AndyinMokum

yes GRC website is a great place to go... a must for anyone running windows

Regards Zeb...
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: GNULINUX on May 25, 2016, 06:02:30 am
How Microsoft's tricky new Windows 10 pop-up deceives you into upgrading (http://www.pcworld.com/article/3073457/windows/how-microsofts-nasty-new-windows-10-pop-up-tricks-you-into-upgrading.html)
Quote
But here’s the icky part: The redesigned GWX pop-up now treats exiting the window as consent for the Windows 10 upgrade.

So after more than half a year of teaching people that the only way to say “no thanks” to Windows 10 is to exit the GWX application—and refusing to allow users to disable the pop-up in any obvious manner, so they had to press that X over and over again during those six months to the point that most people probably just click it without reading now—Microsoft just made it so that very behavior accepts the Windows 10 upgrade instead, rather than canceling it.

That’s gross.

Updategate: Microsoft uses technique to lure you to Windows 10 from the 'X' button (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2459169/updategate-microsoft-uses-technique-to-lure-you-to-windows-10-from-the-x-button)
Quote
A report at MSPoweruser explained that the latest trick from GWX.exe, Microsoft's ever-growing wart on Windows 7 and 8, is to change the behaviour of the 'X' button, traditionally meant to signify 'close and do nothing'.

The pop-up messages that we previously reported offered a specific date and time when your system would be updated, but the 'X' button now seems to be short for 'I accept the upgrade'.

Malware has the same ethics... none!  ;)
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 25, 2016, 08:57:23 am
In truth, you knew it was coming right ?

and screw your apostrophe .. Microsaft don't deserve one even if it were correct ;)
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: Capivara on May 25, 2016, 09:54:33 am
I would love to say "You get what you pay for", but in the case of Windows nothing could be more far from the truth.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: scifidude79 on May 25, 2016, 10:02:44 am
In truth, you knew it was coming right ?

Yes, yes we did.  Hence, being here, not there.  8)

Though, wouldn't one think it would be illegal to do this?  I mean, updating your installed system is one thing, but a forced upgrade to a newer version sounds like something they could be sued over.  I mean, it is literally making people unable to use their computers, from what I'm reading in the comments sections of those articles.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: aagimob on May 25, 2016, 12:01:22 pm
...hello friends...this issue is on the front pages of...politics in Romania...for those who do not know...Romania is at war with Microsoft...but that is another story...
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 25, 2016, 01:27:35 pm
Good for Romania .. someone needs to speak out.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: Capivara on May 25, 2016, 01:47:23 pm
On the positive side: one victim of this phoned me that he was fed up with it now and wants Linux on his notebook. That' s #3 in less than 4 weeks.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: PCNetSpec on May 25, 2016, 04:11:09 pm
Nice :)
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: Will Dojinn on June 03, 2016, 02:56:12 pm
I swapped my gaming desktop (that's a decade old) to linux because of this.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: perknh on June 03, 2016, 05:43:46 pm
This stuff is for real.  Just two days a fellow told me that his Windows 7 installation automatically upgraded to Windows 10.  He was not happy about it.

Microsoft can certainly be a lowdown dirty company.   This is one time when I wish we had an emoticon or an Emoji, for the boo or thumbs down sentiment.  I'm certain it would get a lot of use when discussing Microsoft.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: zebedeeboss on June 29, 2016, 03:10:12 am
Too little too late

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3089438/microsoft-windows/microsoft-backs-off-click-the-x-trick-in-windows-10-upgrade-pitch.html (http://www.computerworld.com/article/3089438/microsoft-windows/microsoft-backs-off-click-the-x-trick-in-windows-10-upgrade-pitch.html)

Regards Zeb...
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 29, 2016, 10:43:57 am
Haven't had time to read that yet .. was it anything to do with this:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/27/woman_microsoft_windows_10_upgrades/
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: scifidude79 on June 29, 2016, 10:48:23 am
No, it was basically just saying that their "Red X trick" is being done away with. (clicking the red X confirms the installation, rather than cancelling it) Though, the end of the article does acknowledge that the woman winning $10,000 in a settlement probably helped lead to the decision.  More people need to sue M$ over this crap.  Now that someone has won one, that will inevitably lead to more suits as people realize that they can beat the tech giant in court.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 29, 2016, 10:52:35 am
Yeah I figured it'd be due to that even though they'd not admit it :))
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: scifidude79 on June 29, 2016, 12:23:44 pm
It's Microsoft, they admit nothing.  But, yeah, you know that's what led to it.  They finally got caught doing something they can be successfully sued for, so they reversed it.  Of course, that won't stop the suits from coming, the floodgates are open now.  I figured there would be lawsuits, since a lot of people have had this update forced on them and, in some cases, it actually causes their computers to stop working.  I don't know why they though they could get by with it, other than the fact that it's Microsoft.  ::)  No matter what BS they make you agree to with their EULA, you own the hardware.  They can't claim ownership to that, only the software.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 29, 2016, 01:19:17 pm
Sommat needs to be done .. forced upgrades and keylogging are unacceptable, end of story.

I'm still of the opinion that their keystroke logging leaves them in breach of British/European data protection legislation .. irrespective of acceptance of their EULA.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: scifidude79 on June 29, 2016, 03:14:35 pm
I'm pretty sure key logging is illegal in the US too, except in certain situations.  Certainly doing it without someone's knowledge is illegal.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: Timo on June 29, 2016, 03:18:18 pm
Who cares? I mean who cared about NSA/GCHQs practices? Much blabla, but it didn't get better... and for them Win10 is probably a dream. Anything they could possibly want is allready built in :o
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 29, 2016, 03:28:05 pm
I care.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: Slim.Fatz on June 29, 2016, 04:13:16 pm
Hi PCNetSpec,

Of course, you care -- and I care, and probably Timo as well. But who are we? NOBODY!! If a big-shot, social-parasitic politician cares -- look out! Things are going to change!!

Not pretty, but that's the way modern "democracies" work.  >:(

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: Timo on June 29, 2016, 04:33:05 pm
I care.
I know that...
Germany's consumer protection is pretty active (and they're able to make penaltys). However only thing they do is let you know it's illegal. Basically you could sum all their tests up with "stay away from big companies, they've illegal business practices". Because Google, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, ... all don't care about EU/national law. Even transferring your IP adress into the US without permission is already illegal. They at least don't care...

If a big-shot, social-parasitic politician cares -- look out! Things are going to change!!
Not pretty, but that's the way modern "democracies" work.  >:(
Horst Seehofer (Minister President of Bavaria) in TV about our democracy: "Those who decide aren't elected and those who are elected have nothing to decide."
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: Slim.Fatz on June 29, 2016, 04:54:44 pm
Hi Timo,

Yes, sad but true.

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 29, 2016, 04:57:33 pm
If enough people care, stuff changes .. problem is making enough people care.

That said, change is in the air.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: scifidude79 on June 29, 2016, 05:43:14 pm
Last time I checked, a lot of people cared when they found out the NSA and CIA and whatever other government agencies were spying on their own citizens and citizens of allied countries.  The major differences between them and M$ is that they're government agencies who hide their practices behind a veil of secrecy that's nearly impossible to peer behind.  And, when someone finally comes out and blows the whistle on what they're doing, that person is then branded a traitor and a criminal because they violated the oath they swore to when they were hired.  So, it's extremely hard to even find out what those agencies are doing.

M$, on the other hand, has it all spelled out in their EULA and Software Agreement, two 25 or so page documents that 99% of people who use the OS are too stupid to read before clicking "I Agree."  The fact that they can get by with not only doing what they're doing but doing it with the level of transparency with which they're doing it is something that most people should find deeply troubling.  However, most people can be flat out told what M$ is doing and still won't care because they think they can't get on Facebook without Windows.

So, yeah, "Who cares?" is exactly the kind of attitude that led us to this point.  It's the wrong attitude to have.  If these tech giants can keep getting away with crap like this, then there's no limit to what they'll try next.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: Timo on June 29, 2016, 09:19:17 pm
M$ isn't the issue, it's a symptom of a broken system. There are a few guys who have the right to print money (the FED is a private bank) and then there's compound interest, making rich richer and poor poorer. Naturally it should be the other way round, if anybody works the same they should (at least after an infinite amount of time) all have the same. If someone worked harder/had luck/whatever he can have more and maybe quit working, but it shouldn't be like from this point on he and all his descendants will just get richer and richer over generations without doing anything. There should be a slight draft into the middle, drawing the rich down a bit and the poor up. Doesn't have to be much, but at least the tendency should be right.
However anyone in the position and willing to change this has yet been killed (it's over 100 years working like this) and instead the current system has been kept going with wars and anything necessary to keep it from crashing.

And I'm not sure if people will understand this or hit the reset switch with a big war and restart, running into the same issues again a few decades afterwards.


EDIT: to clarify with "who cares?" I meant politicians and judges, law doesn't matter if none of them looks after it. Obviously I care as well and yeah I red that Win10 EULA with a friend (black humor + alcohol required) and tried Linux a few days afterwards... although it was only the drop that brough the barrel to overflow...
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: scifidude79 on June 30, 2016, 09:34:36 am
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if M$ didn't actually put all of this spying stuff right into Win10 at the behest of the US Government.  Either the data is going directly to them, or perhaps they're even just running a social experiment to test how people react to various levels of "big brother" watching them.  They may want to see how willing people are to put up with this stuff and exactly how much people will accept willingly.  Having a major company put this level of surveillance out absolves them of any guilt in the matter and puts the target squarely on M$.

After all, it's not like the government has never been involved in tech companies in the past.  It's a pretty well known fact (at least in certain circles) that the FBI put money into Facebook so that Facebook would create the world's largest searchable photo ID database.  They may have similarly funded Win10, or at least certain aspects of it.

EDIT: to clarify with "who cares?" I meant politicians and judges, law doesn't matter if none of them looks after it. Obviously I care as well and yeah I red that Win10 EULA with a friend (black humor + alcohol required) and tried Linux a few days afterwards... although it was only the drop that brough the barrel to overflow...

Ah, I got you now.  Unfortunately, what you intend to say doesn't always come across in text.  I misread what you were saying there.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: murraymint on June 30, 2016, 10:23:04 am
They may have similarly funded Win10, or at least certain aspects of it.

That would help to explain why they've made it "free of charge" and tried to force so many people into using it.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: Timo on June 30, 2016, 12:47:48 pm
Military, big Media and big tech comanies have always had strong connections in the past.

And maybe there are social experiments running, the refugee crysis beeing an other one. (Next to all western states had cut their funding for refugee camps in half, making them unable to supply the refugees with enough foot. This made them move, Merkels welcome only gave them a destination.)

Little mindgame:
There's Russia, their ressources have to be integrated into the western world next. Either through a regime change or war. Giving a handfull of companies controll over American, European and African ressources and starting to round up China (Vietnam and Japan are currently getting in position) in order to get Asia.
There might have never been so much power in so few hands before, some of them are probably dreaming of their world government. Biggest issue remaining are the people, precisely understanding how they act might be the key.
Title: Re: Microsoft's Latest Tactic (Note apostrophe)
Post by: scifidude79 on June 30, 2016, 01:10:05 pm
They may have similarly funded Win10, or at least certain aspects of it.

That would help to explain why they've made it "free of charge" and tried to force so many people into using it.

They're certainly getting something out of it.  I've always felt that way, as Microsoft usually does nothing for free or out of the goodness of their heart.