Peppermint OS

Support => Installation => Topic started by: sskarma on September 29, 2015, 03:33:30 am

Title: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on September 29, 2015, 03:33:30 am
hi guys,

So I upgraded my RAM to 2 GB yesterday and I was making plans to replace my existing 32 bit install of Peppermint with its 64 bit Version. But as I was going to download it, I went through the peppermint site and saw some points like these :

" 64 bit is generally faster, but things such as Adobe Flash may suffer."

" Most desktop users will not likely see any drastic performance differences between the two."

" Consensus opinion is usually that 32 bit is a tiny bit more stable than 64 bit."


http://peppermintos.com/guide/downloading/

Now I'm confused. what should I do? :( Should I continue sticking with the 32 bit version because I have had no problems with it so far. I just thought 64 bit Version will be faster
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: Slim.Fatz on September 29, 2015, 03:38:02 am
Hi sk_sarma,

Like the saying goes: if it's not broken, don't fix it!

 :P

Of course, you can play around if you wish. That you will see any difference one that machine is, however, rather questionable.

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on September 29, 2015, 03:45:50 am
Hi sk_sarma,

Like the saying goes: if it's not broken, don't fix it!

Thank you Slim. I will stick to the 32-bit version then because I'm loving it :)
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on September 29, 2015, 07:25:12 am
Just to expand on that a bit, it all comes down to usage.  In most cases, there's no advantage to 64-bit.  The only cases where it's going to be advantageous are if you're into things like video production, CGI, those sort of things.  Programs for those kind of things are designed to take advantage of 64-bit processors.  Most other software isn't.  Even games aren't designed to take advantage of 64-bit.  Heck, Steam isn't even 64-bit software, it's 32-bit.  So, it all comes down to what you use your computer for.

The only other reason I would advise 64-bit is if you more than 4GB of RAM, which you obviously don't.  Supposedly, with PAE kernels, you can use a 32-bit distribution with more than 4GB of RAM and it will register the full amount of RAM, but I've never seen it happen.  I tried it once (admittedly, a few years ago) and it only showed 4GB on my desktop with 8GB.  *shrugs*

Anyway, those are the only reasons I would suggest 64-bit.  For the record, Adobe Flash works fine in 64-bit.  Also, I only run 64-bit and I generally suffer from no stability issues on any of my computers that are caused by the 64-bit system, that I know of.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on September 29, 2015, 10:14:52 am
I got your point. no need to upgrade to 64-bit unless I have more than 4 gigs of RAM and my motherboard doesn't support more than 4 GB of RAM, so 32-bit is okay for me :D thanks scifidude79
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on September 29, 2015, 10:29:20 am
There's nothing wrong with 32-bit, it's tried and true.  I only use 64 because I do CGI and, when it comes to rendering, anything you can do to speed up things helps.   :)  I only wish more software had 64-bit support.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on September 29, 2015, 02:08:03 pm
I guess 32 bit apps run on 64-bit but 64-bit apps dont run on 32-bit, right?
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on September 29, 2015, 03:19:12 pm
Correct.  Also, I don't know if Linux is this way, but I know 64-bit Windows won't run 16-bit programs.  However, 32-bit will run 16-bit.  Important if you have something really old that you want to run.  (from the mid to late '90s or earlier)
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on September 29, 2015, 08:17:27 pm
I think it wouldn't be hard to find emulators or ported versions of 16-bit apps. :)
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on September 29, 2015, 08:26:12 pm
Depends on the program.  I had some old CGI sofware from 1998 that was 32-bit but the installation program was 16-bit.  So, the installation program wouldn't run in Windows 7 64-bit and there was no compatibility setting to make it do so.  There's no emulator (or wasn't back then that I knew of) for running 16-bit Windows programs on Windows 64-bit and M$ couldn't be bothered to include support for 16-bit software.  The company that made the software no longer existed, so there was no hope of a port.  What I actually wound up doing was using Linux Mint to install the software using Wine and then I copied the program folder over to Windows 7.  Running the program itself after doing that wasn't an issue because it was 32-bit software, just its installer was 16-bit, probably a holdover from an earlier version.  ::)  Funnily enough, the software itself never ran very well in Wine either, but I never needed it to, I just needed to run the installer to create the program folders so that I could copy them.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on September 29, 2015, 10:49:51 pm
Are there no modern version of those CGI apps still available? Computers should be backward compatible. Sometimes, it gives a chance to the application developers to increase their sales. Like for example, my dad used to have a printing press in the early 2000s and we used to have a font/typing software for indic languages along with Windows 98. The software was quite expensive and it was worth it. When we upgraded to Windows XP a few years later, the typing software was no more working on XP. So my dad had to re-buy it (newer version). I was a school kid back then and even now, I try to figure out why it worked on 98 but didn't work on XP
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on September 29, 2015, 11:35:11 pm
Are there no modern version of those CGI apps still available?

Sure, there were newer versions, but this was one of those instances where the newer versions were buggy pieces of crap that didn't work like they should.  The one I was using was actually the best version they ever made of this particular software.  Fortunately, I don't use that particular software anymore.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on September 30, 2015, 02:48:33 am
Exactly. I know a lot of people who still use older versions of Adobe photoshop, Adobe Pagemaker, Coreldraw etc in their printing/designing business. they may not compete with the newer versions in terms of aesthetics and features but performance -wise, they're way better.

So far, I have found almost every Windows alternative on Linux. like, I never learned AutoCAD but I use freeCAD for building drawing and there is a freeCAD on Linux as well. There can be no better substitute to Photoshop than GIMP :D I have no reason to go back to Windows anymore. Performance wise, I think these apps perform better on Linux.

I hope you have find useful CGI apps on Linux.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on September 30, 2015, 07:52:55 am
Man, I love GIMP, I've been using it since 2006.  I've never even used Photoshop.  I also use Inkscape, which is a great CorelDraw and similar program alternative.  For video editing, I like OpenShot and KDENLive.  The only software I had to really change when moving to Linux was my 3D software.

I hope you have find useful CGI apps on Linux.

I'm using Blender these days.  Not only is it 1000% free, but it has no operating system requirements other than something modern.  The Blender Foundation releases versions for just about anything, Windows, OSX, Linux and BSD.  It's available in both 32 and 64 bit for both of those.  Getting the latest version is as simple as downloading the archive (.tar.gz for Linux) from their website, then extracting and running it. I have it in a folder in my /home folder and I created a .desktop file to put it in the menu.

There are a few other 3D CGI packages available for Linux.  One I was checking out a few months back is called Modo, but it's too expensive for me.  $1799 USD.  Though, it's presently on sale for "only" $1079.40.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on September 30, 2015, 09:17:17 am
Yes I have installed Inkscape but never paid attention to it. If it's similar to Coreldraw then I'll be delighted to find a Coreldraw alternative for Linux :D It's good for designing logos and polymer stamps (or seals). Sums up, a printing press can fully make use of Linux.

Woah, that's too much! it costs even more than original Windows DVDs. :O Perhaps you can search for its Debian package.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on September 30, 2015, 10:35:28 am
Woah, that's too much! it costs even more than original Windows DVDs. :O Perhaps you can search for its Debian package.

If you mean the $1799 software, I wish I could say it's even the most expensive.  3DS Max and Maya cost $3699 for a perpetual license, or $123/month for an annual license.  ($1,470 per year)  Why do you think movie and TV special effects cost so much?  Though, a lot of effects houses these days use Lightwave, which is cheaper at *only* $995, though it's about $500 more when it's first released.  I actually have a older version of Lightwave, but I didn't pay anywhere near that much because I got it on Ebay.  Though, it won't run in Linux with Wine because it uses a USB hardware lock and Wine has no USB support.  I've even compiled Wine from source with the patch and it's no joy.  So, I use Blender now.

On the subject of prices, crap like Photoshop isn't exactly cheap either.  AfterEffects is even worse.  And, unfortunately, there's no open source replacement (or even a less expensive one) for what AE does.  There is a package called Blackmagic Fusion that is similar and was released for free a while back, but they didn't release the Linux version (there is one) for free, they only did for Windows.  ::)  Their next Beta is Windows and Mac only.  I need to see if Fusion 7 works with Wine.

There are no "Debian packages" for these things, they're commercial software.  There's no free version other than a free trial.  Modo, when you buy it for Linux (or use the trial) comes in a shell script (.sh) that can be easily be installed using any Linux distribution.

At one point, Blender was commercial software too.  It was an in-house program written by a European effects company, who later sold it to the masses.  After the company went under and Blender went away, in a very rare move, a group of Blender users banded together to form The Blender Foundation and pooled their money to buy the rights to Blender so that they could continue to develop it and release it for free.  That's the only reason Blender is even available for free.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on September 30, 2015, 11:07:27 am
And considering how movies with good visual effects gross in hundreds of millions (sometimes billions) now a days, I don't think those prices for CGI software is coming down any time soon.

I didn't know that Adobe after effects was crap from CGI perspective . We used it to create a Farewell video for some seniors. Earlier, people used Microsoft movie maker and other simple applications. Now I've seen AE being used to create wedding videos as well.

I have noticed Blender on the software center. I am gonna give it a try. Although FreeCAD does it too but I just want to see if Blender can allow me to draw 3D diagrams of buildings with proper scaling. CAD apps are just too simple.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on September 30, 2015, 11:16:11 am
I don't like anything Adobe, so it's all crap to me.  I think that company sucks and their more recent anti-Linux views aren't exactly warming me to them lately.  They stopped developing their POS Flash plugin for Linux and stopped releasing the Adobe Reader, both for unclear reasons.

If you're going to try Blender, I'd suggest not going with the extremely outdated version in the repositories.  You can download the latest version and use it from their website:

http://www.blender.org/
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on September 30, 2015, 07:05:01 pm
html5 will take over flash one day :) And there are a lot of PDF readers for Linux which are good enough for everyday use.

Thank you. blender looks professional. But excellent. I will give it a try. :)
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on September 30, 2015, 07:29:33 pm
html5 will take over flash one day :) And there are a lot of PDF readers for Linux which are good enough for everyday use.

I'm waiting for that day.  (the HTML5 thing)  Meanwhile, a whole lot of sites still use those horrid Flash videos.

It's not that I like Adobe Reader or anything, (hell, I used to use Evince even in Windows) it's the sudden anti-Linux stance that the company has taken that I don't like.  After years of developing some of its software for Linux, they stopped suddenly.  Why, I wonder?  it makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on September 30, 2015, 10:20:06 pm
Same with Foxit Reader. it's a very well featured yet simple PDF Reader. I was using it on Windows as well as Lubuntu. After I installed Peppermint, I couldn't find it no more on the official Foxit site. Turned out, they've discontinued it. After a lot of google-searching, I finally found a link to the official Debian version of Foxit. Although foxit has been discontinued and is not on their website anymore, they still have it on their official download ftp site. I use foxit now. However, evince is good as well but I'm kinda like hooked on to foxit. :D

And yeah, it doesn't make sense why they suddenly discontinue app development for linux. Sucks :/

When I was on Facebook, I used to play some Facebook games on Windows which made use of Unity web player. I wonder Unity works on Linux. because if it does, then the days of Flash gaming are over! Unity provides much better graphics and smoothness compared to Flash.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on September 30, 2015, 11:54:33 pm
Actually, you can still get Foxit from their site, it's just version 1 and the current version is 7.  But, it's still on there.  However, Adobe completely removed the download for their reader.  It's one thing to stop developing it, it's another to completely remove it like it never existed.

As for Unity, check out this discussion from a month ago:

http://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php/topic,2345.0.html
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on October 01, 2015, 01:55:49 am
Foxit Reader for LINUX is still on their official site! but a few weeks ago when I checked, it wasn't there. Perhaps they added this one recently. Besides, they used to have separate installers for debian, fedora etc. now they have put an archive file. Users will have to manually extract it and create desktop/menu shortcuts. I have the Debian version from a link I got in a blog. It automatically creates menu shortcuts like any regular *.deb installer :)

It's good that Unity has finally arrived on Linux. I used to play counter strike online on Facebook years ago and that was with unity web player on windows. Unity is the future of online web-browser based gaming :)
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on October 01, 2015, 08:24:50 am
It looks like they took it down and then put it back up because it says it was added on 09/15/15.  However, it was there several months ago when I checked.  They probably had it down temporarily when they were changing from the separate installers to the archive version.   8)

Yes, Unity support for Linux is very exciting news.   ;D
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on October 01, 2015, 09:19:22 am
Yeah it wasn't there. But the Debian package is still available on their official mirror, like I said.

http://cdn01.foxitsoftware.com/pub/foxit/reader/desktop/linux/1.x/1.1/enu/FoxitReader_1.1.0_i386.deb

Unfortunately they have taken it down from their website and replaced it with a universal linux package.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on October 01, 2015, 09:45:15 am
There's nothing wrong with universal Linux packages.  They're better than targeted packages, in my opinion. (less to maintain and no compatibility issues) Until recently, you could only get GOG games in .deb packages or the drop in a folder and run version, there were no packages for installation in other package management systems.  However, they recently switched to shell scripts that can be installed on any Linux system.  That's great for people not running Debian-based distros.   8)
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on October 01, 2015, 10:14:40 am
Shell script is great as well. I'm assuming it's a *.sh file which opens up the terminal and starts to download and install the required application. I had installed an app on my previous Peppermint installation that way. Its cool.

I have no problem with the archived packages because the required application can be run from the folder itself and can also be manually configured to appear on the menu but I don't know why it feels a little incomplete to me. Having said that, I had installed SeaMonkey web browser from a repository but it was an outdated version. But the archived package of SeaMonkey from their official version was updated and the browser could be run from the extracted folder itself and after the first run, it appears on the local/share/applications folder. But I'm always very cautious and careful about choosing my browser and installing them correctly. So I resorted to the outdated version
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: scifidude79 on October 01, 2015, 10:32:45 am
Yeah, you just open a terminal where the shell script is located.  Then you make it exectuable:

Code: [Select]
chmod +x nameofscript.sh
Then you install it like this:

Code: [Select]
./nameofscript.sh
It's really simple.  I have several GOG games installed this way.

Downloading, dropping into a folder and then creating a .desktop file for the menu entry is exactly the way I run Blender, since the current version is 2.76-RC2 and the version in the repository is 2.69.  ::)  They've added a lot of features since 2.69 that I'd be missing out on using that version.  That's one thing I hate about Ubuntu's repositories, some packages get "frozen" when the OS is in alpha and are never updated through the life of it, even if the life is 5 years.  But, fortunately, the folks at Blender make it simple to get the latest version.   8)

Unfortunately, running Seamonkey that way is a crap shoot.  If I remember correctly, it doesn't work properly, so you're better off with the repository version, even if it is a bit outdated.  That's one instance where an installer would be nice.
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on October 02, 2015, 04:24:47 am
Exactomundo! It would have been great if all Linux applications came with a shell script instead of a tarball archive. It would have been a little bit easy on beginners. When I first started using Linux as a full time user (with Lubuntu 13.10), I had a tough time googling how to install applications on Linux. Because I had a DVD from a computer magazine which had a lot of Linux apps in tarball archives. Lubuntu software center didn't work because I didn't know that I was supposed to update my repositories after a fresh installation.

Is it possible to install Ubuntu software center on Peppermint? Because I think USC has more apps than Peppermint software manager (maybe some more good apps)
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: AndyInMokum on October 02, 2015, 04:56:34 am
Hi sk_sarma, Peppermint already has access to everything that's in Ubuntu's repos.  There were paid for apps available in the Ubuntu Software Center.  However after the recent debacle over poor maintenance of these apps and even poorer communications with their developers.  Ubuntu is quietly letting their Software Center die.  Even Ubuntu Mate have dropped it.  There's absolutely no advantage to using the Ubuntu Software Center.  All it will do is take up valuable disk space and use up your memory.  Check out this article from PC World: Canonical is letting the Ubuntu Software Center wither and die (http://www.pcworld.com/article/2974148/software/canonical-is-letting-the-ubuntu-software-center-wither-and-die.html).  It says it all  ;).
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on October 02, 2015, 05:08:11 am
That's tragic. :( I don't understand why is Canonical doing that. I use Synaptic anyway but I thought it'd be cool to install another software manager on PM6 :)
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: PCNetSpec on October 02, 2015, 05:54:04 am
Because the USC sucks big time, and even Canonical know it ;)

If you wanna try another software manager, try

lubuntu-software-center <-- Available in the repos
or
AppGrid
or
Deepin Software Center
Title: Re: Confused whether to install 64 bit or not
Post by: sskarma on October 02, 2015, 10:50:54 am
I have used Lubuntu software center. Thanks for suggesting Appgrid and Deepin. I gotta try them :)