Peppermint OS Community Forum

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: configX on August 08, 2015, 02:44:46 pm

Title: Why pyshot?
Post by: configX on August 08, 2015, 02:44:46 pm
Just curious why pyshot continues to be used instead of something more robust such as xfce4-screenshooter? It doesn't seem like pyshot is maintained anymore and lacks the ability to select an area or window. Obviously it was easy enough for me to replace but it seems like an under-powered tool for a new user. Even the keyboard shortcuts are mapped to scrot and not pyshot. If Peppermint were to use xfce4-screenshooter alone to replace both pyshot and scrot you would only be using about 1 MB more of disk space and have more functionality from a single program.
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: scifidude79 on August 08, 2015, 02:52:21 pm
Pyshot is small, simple and it works.  XFCE4-Screenshooter requires the installation of XFCE4-Panel.  Peppermint uses LXPanel, so there's no good reason to include a program by default that requires a second panel.  I'd assume those are the main reasons.
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: configX on August 08, 2015, 02:57:40 pm
Pyshot is small, simple and it works.  XFCE4-Screenshooter requires the installation of XFCE4-Panel.  Peppermint uses LXPanel, so there's no good reason to include a program by default that requires a second panel.  I'd assume those are the main reasons.

Xfce4-panel is only recommended but not needed for xfce4-screenshooter to work. :)
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: scifidude79 on August 08, 2015, 03:04:49 pm
Tell that to APT, because, using the terminal or Synaptic, XFCE4-Screenshooter won't install without XFCE4-Panel.  If you mark XFCE4-Screenshooter for installation in Synaptic, it marks XFCE4-Panel too.  If you then unmark XFCE4-Panel, it unmarks XFCE4-Screenshooter.  I know, there are other ways to install the screenshot program, but that's what I'm getting just trying to install it using APT.
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: configX on August 08, 2015, 03:29:45 pm
You can use the following:
Code: [Select]
sudo apt-get --no-install-recommends install xfce4-screenshooter
You can also change /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99synaptic to make it permanent:
 
Code: [Select]
APT::Install-Recommends "false"
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: PCNetSpec on August 08, 2015, 04:04:10 pm
I'm happy to consider it if people prefer it ?

Though keeping the ISO under 700MB (at least for the 32bit version) is becoming harder to do of late, so 1MB may not seem much when considered in isolation but could be the final straw that pushes us from CD to DVD
(should this even be considered important any more ?)
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on August 08, 2015, 04:12:28 pm

Hi PCNetSpec,

If someone wants it, then they can install it using the method configX describes. But by looking at the descriptions I've found for XFCE4-Screenshooter I fail to find any really significant additional functionality that I personally need or even might like to have compared to scrot.


Regards,


-- Slim

Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: scifidude79 on August 08, 2015, 04:48:15 pm

Hi PCNetSpec,

If someone wants it, then they can install it using the method configX describes. But by looking at the descriptions I've found for XFCE4-Screenshooter I fail to find any really significant additional functionality that I personally need or even might like to have compared to scrot.


Regards,


-- Slim

I agree with Slim.  It's simple enough for the end user to install anything they want and remove anything they don't.  What you're giving them is a base from which they can customize their own installation.  If you start adding things by popular demand, you'll lose control of things rather quickly.
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: configX on August 08, 2015, 04:50:45 pm
Does SMF have the ability to create polls? Honestly a screenshot utility is not a major factor when deciding on a distro but it does come in handy. I was surprised when I tried to take a screenshot of a window in Peppermint with pyshot and it didn't have the option. Basically if a new user (or anyone) wants to take a screenshot to show an error or problem, they need to know keyboard shortcut for scrot or capture their entire desktop and edit it in Gimp or similar tool. I'm not opposed to another screenshot other than xfce4-screenshooter as long as it can capture regions and windows. To Slim.Fatz point, users can always install something else but some people don't know that better options exist until they have it. My suggestion is to not include every piece of software that people want, but to choose the best one if better options exist as long as it stays true to Peppermint's goals.
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: scifidude79 on August 08, 2015, 05:09:01 pm
ALT+Print Screen takes a screenshot of a window.  It will save somewhere on your computer (default: Desktop) as "Windowshot_date_time.png"
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: configX on August 08, 2015, 05:18:14 pm
I think you may have missed my point.  ;)

I don't have a print screen button on my netbook. It was easy enough to change the key binding. But what's the keyboard shortcut for capturing a rectangular region?
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: scifidude79 on August 08, 2015, 05:23:06 pm
You're right, I completely missed your point.   :-[

I don't even know if you can do that.  I always just edit them in GIMP, so I'm the wrong person to ask.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: configX on August 08, 2015, 05:29:54 pm
Not need to apologize. :)

I know that Peppermint aims to be nimble while also intuitive. Having to use a separate program to crop screenshots doesn't seem intuitive. To each their own though. Using pyshot is not an issue for me, I was mostly curious about the rationale for choosing it over other options. If everyone likes it the way it is then I can't complain - you've been here longer than me.
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: scifidude79 on August 08, 2015, 05:35:20 pm
See, I'm an amateur artist, so I have all kinds of art software like GIMP, Inkscape, Blender, etc. installed.  So, taking an image to another program and cropping it or making other changes is second nature to me, it doesn't even feel like work or an inconvenience.  But, I can see where other people might find it a bit of a pill.

You have every right to complain.  Time of use has nothing to do with it.  I'm sure, if enough people wanted it, the screenshot program could easily be changed for the next release.  Popular vote has led to different image viewing programs, media players and other things.  This may be something Mark (PCNetSpec) could put to a vote before the next release, if he felt so inclined.  As you say, I'm sure SMF has a poll option.  If not, there are free poll hosting sites.
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: PCNetSpec on August 08, 2015, 05:38:12 pm
Sure SMF can do polls, but currently only moderators and admin can set them.

Personally I don't find them useful for this kind of decision because they tend not to give the reasoning behind peoples choice .. is it just lack of knowledge about the keyboard shortcuts where it may be better to just advertise the shortcuts better, or is their choice coming from a position of knowledge (such as is there a call for a selectable area over familiarity)

We're always open to "reasoned" suggestions for improvement, so I'd be happy to hear peoples thoughts :)
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: configX on August 08, 2015, 09:20:15 pm
I don't care what anyone says,  you guys are alright in my book.  :D

Luckily a screenshot app isn't mission critical - it was only a thought I had from a newbie UX perspective. I've been using Linux since 2007 and can get around just fine - it's the newcomers I worry about. I've always been a big fan of lightweight software that is simplistic but doesn't lack in function, hence my interest in Peppermint. So, you can imagine my surprise when everything was going swimmingly until I needed to take a screenshot...lol. Not a big deal for me, I know how to install packages. But then I thought how that might affect newcomers to the Linux world. Let's show them how awesome lightweight open-source and free software can be while not skimping on the sauce. 

Perhaps this could be discussed more during development of the next release. Like PCNetSpec said, it could be as easy as making the shortcuts more accessible. Or maybe we find another utility that's just as light as pyshot but with more bang for the buck.

Is there any kind of project management during each release cycle? Just curious how things work around here.  :)
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on August 09, 2015, 08:02:26 am
Hi configX,

PCNetSpec is our coordinator for new releases and manages the project of getting new versions into beta-testing, etc. He also consults with the Big Shots who run PeppermintOS LLG (or whatever it's called).




As to your desire for making it easier for newbies to get screenshots of the desktop or an active window (without using things like GIMP to crop the screenshot to the window): if PCNetSpec decides to stay with the handy and small program scrot then he could include some new menu items (one called "Screenshot" and another maybe "Window Shot") that do not use pyshot but just call a script that in turn uses scrot to achieve the results they would be missing if they did not have the PrintScreen key.

For example, by creating an executable script similar to this:

Code: [Select]
#!/bin/bash


# shootWindow.sh : This is a script that uses scrot to make a picture of the
# currently active window and saves it in the user's desktop folder as a PNG file.


scrot -u -d 1 -b 'Win_%Y-%m-%d_%H:%M:%S.png' -e 'mv $f ~/Desktop/'

and putting it into the user's PATH and then creating a .desktop file similar to this:

Code: [Select]
[Desktop Entry]
Version=1.0
Encoding=UTF-8
Type=Application
Name=Shoot Active Window
Comment=Take a picture of the focused window
Icon=camera
Exec=shootWindow.sh
Terminal=false
Categories=GTK;Utility;
StartupNotify=false
You have an entry in the Accessories category of the main menu that makes a picture of the currently active window.

Similarly for the entire desktop with this script:

Code: [Select]
#!/bin/bash


# shootDesktop.sh : This is a script that uses scrot to make a picture of the
# entire desktop and saves it in the user's desktop folder as a PNG file.


scrot -d 1 'Desk_%Y-%m-%d_%H:%M:%S.png' -e 'mv $f ~/Desktop/'

and this .desktop file:

Code: [Select]
[Desktop Entry]
Version=1.0
Encoding=UTF-8
Type=Application
Name=Shoot Desktop
Comment=Take a picture of your desktop
Icon=camera
Exec=shootDesktop.sh
Terminal=false
Categories=GTK;Utility;
StartupNotify=false

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: 10i on August 09, 2015, 08:55:11 am
I used to take a lot of screenshots, but haven't lately.

Normally I install shutter for this, but it does not have to be included in the ISO or anything. I just use it because it is what I have used for a while now.
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: configX on August 09, 2015, 08:57:50 am
Oh wow, I didn't even know that scrot could capture rectangular areas. Slim.Fatz got me thinking so I was looking at the man page and the -s flag allows you to select an area. Perhaps we could cobble together a decent Zenity gui for scrot that would let the user choose a screenshot type, delay, save location, etc. That would probably be under 5KB in Bash.
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on August 09, 2015, 09:40:30 am
Hi configX,

Yes, scrot is really quite versatile, so I was wondering why you wanted something else. I did not include them, but I also have a menu entries for: area selection pictures and picture taking after 5 or after 10 second delays. I always store my scrot-pix in the same location so I personally don't need an option for storing them elsewhere.

But feel free to throw a gui together and present it to PCNetSpec for consideration.

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: configX on August 09, 2015, 09:49:50 pm
I'm not much of a programmer but I was able to put this together. Eventually I can add a delay option when choosing window or desktop and also have it ask where to save the file.  For now files are saved in Desktop.

(http://i.imgur.com/MNLvF5B.png)

Code: [Select]
#!/bin/sh

mode=$(zenity --list --width 450 --height 220 \
  --title="Choose a Screenshot Mode" \
  --column="Mode" \
    "Click and Drag Rectangular Area" \
    "Active Window Only" \
    "Entire Desktop")

case $mode in
    "Click and Drag Rectangular Area" )
    scrot -sz '%Y-%m-%d_$wx$h.png' -e 'mv $f ~/Desktop/'
    ;;
    "Active Window Only" )
    scrot -buz '%Y-%m-%d_$wx$h.png' -e 'mv $f ~/Desktop/'
    ;;
    "Entire Desktop" )
    scrot -z '%Y-%m-%d_$wx$h.png' -e 'mv $f ~/Desktop/'
    ;;
esac
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: scifidude79 on August 09, 2015, 10:00:37 pm
That's really cool.  :)  As somebody who has literally tried and failed to learn programming, I'm highly impressed.
Title: Re: Why pyshot?
Post by: configX on August 09, 2015, 10:56:25 pm
Yeah I'm actually surprised I got that far.   :)