Peppermint OS Community Forum

Support => Hardware => Topic started by: paulus on July 18, 2015, 12:38:46 pm

Title: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: paulus on July 18, 2015, 12:38:46 pm
Hi all,

I have a very old desktop, an ASUS, with only 256 MB RAM. It has a CD drive for reading only, from which it can start. It cannot start from an USB device, like a pen drive. I checked that in the BIOS, and there is no option for that.

I want to install Peppermint OS on it, and tried to install Peppermint OS 6, but it took for ages to load, in fact it didn't, so that is not an option.

It has now Windows XP Pro installed, that works with "...at least 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM (128 MB is recommended)...", so that is possible, but hasn't my preference.

I also tried Simplicity Linux, a derivative of Puppy Linux, but even that is too heavy for 256 MB RAM.

I really like to have Peppermint OS installed on it, even if it has to be Peppermint OS 1! Would that be possible?

Or is there another way to remove Windows XP and install Peppermint OS on it, in such a way, that it runs normally?

Thanks for replying!

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: AndyInMokum on July 18, 2015, 01:39:06 pm
Hi Paulus, how's it going?  256 MiB RAM is really the rock bottom you're going to be able to use with Peppermint Six.  It's still going to struggle.  One open web page and all or your memory is used up.  That's just the way thing are these days: http://peppermintos.com/guide/downloading/ (http://peppermintos.com/guide/downloading/)

I offer a word of EXTREME CAUTION if you're using your XP machine while connected to the internet.  Windows XP has not been supported for over a year.  Its dead in the water - kapot and poses a serious security threat to both your data and other people's.  If it hasn't already been exploited, it will be exploited sooner or later. 
This is a fact.  Now's the time to backup any critical data and get rid of XP once and for all  ;).
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: paulus on July 18, 2015, 01:42:22 pm
Hi AndyInMokum,

I know! That's the reason I really want to get rid of XP!

But what if I throw it away, without a working alternative? :(

Therefor my question, as I really, really want to install anything but XP on that computer! ;)

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 18, 2015, 01:44:08 pm
You need more than 256 RAM to run a Live session, which is necessary to install the system.  The installed system will use less RAM than a Live one will, but that point is moot if you can't run the Live session to install.  Honestly, if Puppy won't run on the computer, not much will.  Puppy is by far one of the lightest Linux distros on the planet.

Edit:  According to Puppy's forum, their current release requires 768MB RAM.  I don't know how that compares to Peppermint, but I don't see why Peppermint would require any less.
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: AndyInMokum on July 18, 2015, 01:58:27 pm
Hi AndyInMokum,

I know! That's the reason I really want to get rid of XP!

But what if I throw it away, without a working alternative? :(

Therefor my question, as I really, really want to install anything but XP on that computer! ;)

paulus
You could give antiX a go.  It looks like it about as light as you can get with a GUI: antix.mepis.org (http://antix.mepis.org/index.php?title=Main_Page).  It can't hurt to give it a try  ;).
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 18, 2015, 02:40:57 pm
Really any lightweight Ubuntu based distro is going to struggle in less that 512MB .. and even with that you're liable to start swapping out as soon as you fire up a modern web browser.

I'd say minimum useful spec is 1GB .. you migh get away with less if you're going to use a lightweight web browser lie Midori, but I think you're pushing even getting it to install/run in 256MB
(same goes for XP .. it'll run, but as soon as you load any apps it'll start to use the swapfile, and slow to a crawl)

something like DSL or Slitaz wll work in that amount of RAM, but again don't be expecting to run a modern web browser.
(and expect them to be a PITA to configure/use .. there's a penalty for  being that light ;) )
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 18, 2015, 02:57:05 pm
Idle, my system uses over 400MB. (no desktop effects) With Firefox up, it jumps to over 800MB.

I ran XP (ages ago) on 128MB.  NOT recommended, I don't care what M$ claims the "minimum" is.  (I think it's 64MB for XP)

1.  They underrate those things. 

2.  That's the bare minimum required to boot the OS, not to do anything else.

I hate to say this, but you do eventually have to let old hardware go.  That or just keep it and leave XP on it but don't let it even remotely near a network.
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: paulus on July 18, 2015, 03:27:17 pm
Hi AndyInMokum,

I know! That's the reason I really want to get rid of XP!

But what if I throw it away, without a working alternative? :(

Therefor my question, as I really, really want to install anything but XP on that computer! ;)

paulus
You could give antiX a go.  It looks like it about as light as you can get with a GUI: antix.mepis.org (http://antix.mepis.org/index.php?title=Main_Page).  It can't hurt to give it a try  ;).


@AndyInMokum: I am trying now to load AntiX; I happened to have a CD around, and it's loading now. I'll let you know if/how this works.

@all: thank you all, but if I understand well I probably have to except that this old computer isn't workable any longer.

I have to admit that I find it hard to believe that XP wins on the realm of lightest OS(, although support is officially halted). >:(

I would have expected that Peppermint, or at least a distribution of Linux would have that honor! :-\

If there still is any idea of a solution, I would appreciate that very much!

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 18, 2015, 03:44:32 pm
Windows XP came out in 2001.  Compare that to a Linux distribution from 2001 and I'm willing to bet XP wins nothing.  However, compare it to just about any OS from 2015 and, yeah, it will probably win.  Computers are a lot different than they were back then.  In 2005, you could still get computers with under 1GB RAM.  However, nowadays, you can't even buy a computer without at least 3GB.  (NOT counting tablets)  And that's a low end system.
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 18, 2015, 03:51:22 pm
As I said .. XP is the same (particularly after service pack 3) .. it aint gonna run a modern web browser without swapping in less than 1GB.

and it doesn't WIN

IIRC, slitaz loads the whole OS into RAM and still only uses sommat like 80MB .. but there's a tradeoff between modern software/ease of use/lightness .. Peppermint attempts to be light but user friendly, we're not aiming for "as light as possible, but a b*tch to use, and no modern software".

There is ZERO chance of you getting XP to run in 256MB with service pack 3 and without it swapping like crazy (just like Peppermint will as soon as you open an application)) .. and even then its security is outdated.
Peppermint is modern, easy to use,secure, and up to date .. XP isn't.

I could say AmigaOS kicks XP's teeth in when it comes to size (entire multitasking GUI OS on a single 880k floppy disk) .. but its a pointless comparison as it's a lot older so doesn't have a lot of the libraries/api hooks required to run modern hardware and software ;)

[EDIT]

And what scifidude said :)
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: paulus on July 18, 2015, 03:54:05 pm
Windows XP came out in 2001.  Compare that to a Linux distribution from 2001 and I'm willing to bet XP wins nothing.  However, compare it to just about any OS from 2015 and, yeah, it will probably win.  Computers are a lot different than they were back then.  In 2005, you could still get computers with under 1GB RAM.  However, nowadays, you can't even buy a computer without at least 3GB.  (NOT counting tablets)  And that's a low end system.

scifidude79, that brings me to the following idea!

Would it be possible to get this old computer running with an also old version of a Linux distribution? From about the same age? Which Linux distribution would be the best to try out, if it is still around/downloadable?

Maybe we should turn to your way of thinking, and find out which (very) old Linux distribution would fit to this old computer. I guess it would fit on the area of hardware requirements for sure, as they together would be a fine old couple! :D

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: aagimob on July 18, 2015, 04:15:17 pm
Try Tiny Core...
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: paulus on July 18, 2015, 04:37:59 pm
I will definitely try TinyCore. At the moment I am trying an old version of Asturix, version 3 Lite.

After that I will try TinyCore, and let you know.

AntiX was not a succes: though it loaded, it took very long to get anything to work, so that is not an workable option.
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 18, 2015, 04:42:34 pm
You're not listening .. there are distros that will easily load n 256MB of RAM

But they're still going to be useless as soon as you open a modern web browser, which in itself with flash and a couple of other plugins, and a single modern website open in a single tab is going to weigh in around that size, leaving the OS no option but to use the swap partition/file.

It's simple .. 256MB is not enough any more for modern GUI OS and software (including XP SP2/3), and older software (particularly web browsers) won't cut it any more.
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on July 18, 2015, 04:56:37 pm
Hi paulus,

I agree with aagimob ("try Tiny Core") and PCNetSpec ("Slitaz") as about the smallest you can use with a GUI. That said, I think that you need to know Linux fairly well to install and configure either of them.

I have never tried Tiny Core but have read about it in several reviews.

Slitaz is a distro that I used for quite a while and it was really quite nice.

If you can get Peppermint Five or Six to install, then I would suggest turning immediately to the JWM window manager. I use it regularly and when it is configured properly, you can get logged in and have the GUI using only about 85 MB of RAM. It is fast and really easy to configure too. It looks somewhat like maybe Windoze 95 ?? I really don't remember Windoze 95 very well though.

An alternate to the JWM window manager is i3wm, which I also regularly use. Configuration is relatively easy, it is fast and about as light weight on RAM use as JWM. However, i3wm is a what is referred to as a dynamic tiling window manager. If you do not know what this is, it is not easy to describe. But there are YouTube videos out there demonstrating it. But NOTE: not everyone can get comfortable with a tiling window manager! Still, when set up (configured) properly, it can look pretty much like a primitive Windoze or Openbox WM.

So it looks like your main problem is going to be getting through the installation process -- and with only 256 MB RAM that is probably most likely possible only with Tiny Core or Slitaz. After that, there are definitely several ways to go.
And as for light weight web browsers: try dwb. I like it, but then I am rather weird too ...  :-X

Good luck!

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: paulus on July 18, 2015, 05:09:06 pm
You're not listening .. there are distros that will easily load n 256MB of RAM

But they're still going to be useless as soon as you open a modern web browser, which in itself with flash and a couple of other plugins, and a single modern website open in a single tab is going to weigh in around that size, leaving the OS no option but to use the swap partition/file.

It's simple .. 256MB is not enough any more for modern GUI OS and software (including XP SP2/3), and older software (particularly web browsers) won't cut it any more.

I do listen and I try to understand what you say, but I did not specify enough what I am after.

- I look for a simple system, for <= 256 MB RAM
- It is only needed for simple browsing, without the need of flash or any extension, plugin or whatever
- Simple text writing/mailing is enough
- I don't mind a bit swapping: I fully understand that it is quite impossible to do without!
- For browsing I would use a very, very lightweight browser; by no means a modern browser - maybe a Linux equivalent of Kmeleon (Windows browser)

By putting my expectations that low, I expect to find a solution, in which I am grateful for input from forum members.

I hope to have expressed myself better. For misunderstanding by being not specific enough, I apologize.

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: paulus on July 18, 2015, 05:13:39 pm
Hi paulus,

I agree with aagimob ("try Tiny Core") and PCNetSpec ("Slitaz") as about the smallest you can use with a GUI. That said, I think that you need to know Linux fairly well to install and configure either of them.

I have never tried Tiny Core but have read about it in several reviews.

Slitaz is a distro that I used for quite a while and it was really quite nice.

If you can get Peppermint Five or Six to install, then I would suggest turning immediately to the JWM window manager. I use it regularly and when it is configured properly, you can get logged in and have the GUI using only about 85 MB of RAM. It is fast and really easy to configure too. It looks somewhat like maybe Windoze 95 ?? I really don't remember Windoze 95 very well though.

An alternate to the JWM window manager is i3wm, which I also regularly use. Configuration is relatively easy, it is fast and about as light weight on RAM use as JWM. However, i3wm is a what is referred to as a dynamic tiling window manager. If you do not know what this is, it is not easy to describe. But there are YouTube videos out there demonstrating it. But NOTE: not everyone can get comfortable with a tiling window manager! Still, when set up (configured) properly, it can look pretty much like a primitive Windoze or Openbox WM.

So it looks like your main problem is going to be getting through the installation process -- and with only 256 MB RAM that is probably most likely possible only with Tiny Core or Slitaz. After that, there are definitely several ways to go.
And as for light weight web browsers: try dwb. I like it, but then I am rather weird too ...  :-X

Good luck!

Regards,

-- Slim

Hi Slim.Fatz,

Thanks for your input!

I will try and really study what you suggested: many thanks for that!

After having tried out I will let know what the outcome is.

Again: thank you for sharing these thoughts: they are much welcome! ;D

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on July 18, 2015, 05:15:38 pm
Hi paulus,

No need to apologize. We now know what you are looking for.

So, for your interest: I fired up the dwb web browser and it took only 14 MB of RAM to start. I called up www.distrowatch.com (http://www.distrowatch.com) and that took another 70 MB of RAM. So there you have some idea of how light it is. And that is with images being shown!

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: paulus on July 18, 2015, 05:19:51 pm
Hi paulus,

No need to apologize. We now know what you are looking for.

So, for your interest: I fired up the dwb web browser and it took only 14 MB of RAM to start. I called up www.distrowatch.com (http://www.distrowatch.com) and that took another 70 MB of RAM. So there you have some idea of how light it is. And that is with images being shown!

Regards,

-- Slim

Hi Slim.Fatz,

I will take that with me in my "studies"! ;D

Thanks again for this contribution!

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 18, 2015, 06:08:48 pm
distrowatch is a bad example and being an old style static site is not indicative of the modern web

Try a more representative site like webupd8 or omgubuntu, or any other site with dynamic content and popups/popovers/popdowns/popunders/popcorn/poppets/pop-goes-the-weasle/just popping down the pub .. and you'll see the webpage itself adds 300MB+

[EDIT]

Maybe try  Peppermint 3 (which is still supported till 2017, and will be lighter than 4/5/6) .. then if it'll install (which it probably will if you run the installer from the "Try Peppermint / Install Pepermnt" screen rather than the live session desktop) follow Slim.Fatz recommendations for slimming it down even more.
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: AndyInMokum on July 18, 2015, 07:13:40 pm
As PCNetSpec has mentioned, Peppermint Three is still a viable option.  It's based on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.  If Chromium Browser is still too heavy, you could always try the Epiphany-Browser.  The Debian based OS, Raspbian that's written for the Raspberry Pi uses it as its default browser. So it's really light on resources.  It certainly has no bells or whistles.  It will work for casual and simple web browsing though  :).
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on July 19, 2015, 05:37:03 am
Hi everyone,


Just an additional remark: using dwb and opening the PeppermintOS Forum, and after getting logged in, the forum seems to use an average of 70-75 MB of RAM (depending on the ads that appear). I can reply to posts, search the forum, etc. very quickly with dwb. Quite handy  8)


Regards,


-- Slim

Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: rjm65 on July 19, 2015, 08:46:19 am
I am running antix on my old laptop, it has 64 megs ram soldered to the motherboard and one slot which has the maximum 128 megs ram chip for a total of 192 megs ram minus what it shares to run the video card....  Antix was the only one i tried out of about 100 different distros which worked...  what it nice about antix which I wish others would do is during the install you can uncheck everything you do need to install, which saves the machine from running things in the background you are never going to ever use, like samba for sharing, and bluetooth, and printers, and scanners, etc. etc...  then after installing antix I went further and took out the famous wifi manger loved by vindsl, that they use and went with an old wifi manager that runs in terminal...  that alone saved me 32 megs on bootup...  all said and done i can boot antix to the desktop using about 32 megs of ram...
sorry to say this my friends but I run peppermint 3 too and I can not tweak pep 3 under about 75 megs of ram...  I know 43 megs don't sound like a big deal when you have 512 megs or a gig, but when you have less then 256 megs ram it makes all the difference in running or not running....  :)
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 19, 2015, 09:16:54 am
As I said Peppermint is not meant to be a "light as possible" distro .. it's meant to strike a balance between user friendliness, ease of adoption, looks, customisability, software availability, and lightness.

Resource footprint will always be an important consideration, but it's NOT a primary overriding goal ;)
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: VinDSL on July 19, 2015, 05:54:31 pm
...then after installing antix I went further and took out the famous wifi manger loved by vindsl, that they use...

HERESY !!!   :D
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: plumtreed on July 19, 2015, 07:41:26 pm
You really have to get friendly with Slitaz......it is just the thing for your PC and it has a helpful :-[ forum with similar problems to yours.

Not only that, it has it's own minilmalist Browser that keeps things moving!

It is 'active' and very worthwhile.....I am always amazed at the speeds and versitility from Slitaz

Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: paulus on July 20, 2015, 07:27:34 am
Hi to all,

I have tried them all! And all had something that didn't work the way it should be, or the way I wanted.

Among the problems: instable; not logic enough, not able to upgrade, still not fast enough, too large to fit on a cd.

I ended with Slitaz, a very nice looking distribution, but even Slitaz stopped working and got stuck, the bottom panel disappeared, and It froze twice, so I had to put off the computer by hand. That was my last hope.

So I just think it over, and let the case rest for the moment.

But I say a great THANK YOU for all the really great contributions here! :)

I read them all, and tried them out, all of them. Last weekend it looked like a "disk burn factory": I downloaded a distro, burnt it onto cd, tried it and read documentation here on this forum or on the internet, removed it and went on another distro that I downloaded, burnt onto cd... (and so on). ::)

So again: all your posts I read carefully and tried them, and I am grateful for all the advices! So if somebody is to blame that it didn't work out the way I thought it would, than that is only me! :-X

If somebody comes up with another suggestion (if you still dare :-\), I am really open to that, so please, let me know.

Kind regards,

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 20, 2015, 08:37:47 am
How about this.....

Instead of spending money on CDR's .. spend it on RAM ;)

Sorry if that came across a bit like I'm taking the mick, but it's really the only solution .. in fact if you're in the UK I have tons of old SDRAM (probably what you need) SODIMMs and DIMM's lying around you can have if you pay the postage.
(any other country and it'd likely be cheaper to just buy some off ebay)
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: plumtreed on July 20, 2015, 09:11:17 am
You can restore a lost panel in Slitaz quite easily. You may find the more recent Slitaz versions less problematic.....but when you are trying to put 'life' into a dead dawg you might have to go through a few hoops. >:(

Anyhow, Slitaz should work on your dawg but you may need to persist and ask a few questions before you understand the compromises you need to make. :-\
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: AndyInMokum on July 20, 2015, 09:20:25 am
How about this.....

Instead of spending money on CDR's .. spend it on RAM ;)

Sorry if that came across a bit like I'm taking the mick, but it's really the only solution .. in fact if you're in the UK I have tons of old SDRAM (probably what you need) SODIMMs and DIMM's lying around you can have if you pay the postage.
(any other country and it'd likely be cheaper to just buy some off ebay)
Just to add to what PCNetSpec has suggested.  You're located in The Netherlands.  You should try looking on Marktplaats for SDRAM memory.  I just had a look and there's loads of it at varying sizes and prices: www.marktplaats.nl (http://www.marktplaats.nl/z.html?query=SDRAM&categoryId=322&postcode=).
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: paulus on July 20, 2015, 11:36:39 am
@ PCNetSpec, plumtreed and AndyInMokum,

Thanks for your offer and suggestions to place more RAM. I have tried that before, but as this old computer is a really compact one, it's not possible to replace/install new/other memory. I tried once, but couldn't really reach the memory banks, as this computer is from the time it was modern to produce "little" computers, about less than half the size of a standard desktop computer.

So many thanks, but I already tried that before, with no success.

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 20, 2015, 12:13:24 pm
Is it a mini tower or one of those old "flat" jobs?  Either way, I guarantee you it can be taken apart.
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: paulus on July 20, 2015, 12:51:48 pm
It is a mini tower, but trust me: I tried very hard to reach the memory banks, but with an equivalent computer I already damaged the attachment of the memory to the placeholders, the banks, so that is not an option.

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 20, 2015, 01:30:42 pm
What's blocking the RAM slots?

Last year, I was "gifted" an HP Slimline from around 2010, I think.  Anywho, tiny form factor.  It had a fried GPU in the motherboard from a nearby lighting strike, but was otherwise functional.  In order to replace the mobo and get it into working order, I had to partially disassemble the case because there are framework pieces that hold other components in the way of the motherboard.  It was a pain, but worth it in the end because the computer is working and I (of course) put Peppermint on it.  :D

So, my point is, some of those smaller form factor cases can be a real pill, but it's always possible.  But, if you don't want to go to that much work and risk breaking stuff, I understand.
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
Post by: paulus on July 31, 2015, 12:31:40 pm
What's blocking the RAM slots?

Last year, I was "gifted" an HP Slimline from around 2010, I think.  Anywho, tiny form factor.  It had a fried GPU in the motherboard from a nearby lighting strike, but was otherwise functional.  In order to replace the mobo and get it into working order, I had to partially disassemble the case because there are framework pieces that hold other components in the way of the motherboard.  It was a pain, but worth it in the end because the computer is working and I (of course) put Peppermint on it.  :D

So, my point is, some of those smaller form factor cases can be a real pill, but it's always possible.  But, if you don't want to go to that much work and risk breaking stuff, I understand.

scifidude79,

Thanks for your reply, but for this moment I don't think it's worth all the trouble. I agree it would be possible, but at what price? :-\

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions: I conclude that with 256 MB RAM it is NOT possible to run Peppermint OS.

The next question would be: Is 512 MB RAM the absolute minimum required for Peppermint OS? Maybe, I don't know, and I am not in a position to check it.

For that reason my question remains unanswered.  So that will be the addition to my subject, in stead of "SOLVED".

If anyone will able to really answer the question and let it know here, I will update my subject.

Again: many thanks to ALL of you! ;D

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS? >STILL UNANSWERED<
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 31, 2015, 05:07:08 pm
Absolute minimum is (as stated in the user guide):

Quote
The absolute minimum required specs are as follows:

    256 MB of RAM
    Processor based on Intel x86 architecture
    At least 3 GB of available disk space

Again, do note that these are the absolute minimum required specs. We strongly recommend having something a little stronger to install on. Our minimum recommended specs are as follows:

    512 MB of RAM
    Processor based on Intel x86 architecture
    At least 4 GB of available disk space

Taking it a step further, the preferred minimum specs on a candidate for installation are as follows:

    1 GB of RAM
    x86_64 or amd64 compatible processor
    At least 4 GB of disk space

Bear in mind with 256MB, you'll need to install from the "Try Peppermint/Install Peppermint" screen and NOT the Live session .. but I REALLY wouldn't advise running Peppermint in 256MB, it'll be as slow as a snail as it'll pretty much be using the swapfile just to run the OS.

Even in 512MB itll start accessing the swapfile if you start using a modern web browser with eiither more than one tab or some flash content

IMHO iGB is really a minimum comfortable amount of RAM

The point is these days it's impossible to say what a "minimum RAM" figure is except as a minimum amount necessary for INSTALLATION because after installation the swap file acts as additional RAM (but MUCH MUCH MUCH slower).

So really your asking the wrong question....

BARE minimum (to install) is 256MB but the system would be that slow you'd consider it pretty unusable .. the question should really be either:-

a) What's the bare minimum to INSTALL
or
b) given x/y/z usage case, what's a minimum comfortable amount of RAM where the system would be unlikely to start using the swap partition/file.
Title: Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS? >STILL UNANSWERED<
Post by: paulus on August 02, 2015, 01:04:40 pm
Hi PCNetSpec,

You specified my question in the ways one could interpret it: by just installing it, or by able to use the OS in an acceptable manner with an average of running applications. I think that's more useful and clear than my original question, used as the subject of this thread.

So I do agree with you that my question must be more specific: I therefor will change my question/subject to the second interpretation of the original question: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably in an average way?

Thank you for correcting me: this is much clearer and specific; also the question can be answered now, as you stated: it is not less than 1 GB, but starting with that.

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: AndyInMokum on August 02, 2015, 07:09:40 pm
Hi paulus, how's it going?  I'll throw in my thoughts on the comfortable minimum working RAM.  Back in March 2015, I bought an old Acer Aspire One ZG5 from Marktplaats.  It had the default, 1GB of RAM.  One permanent 512MiB card and one 512MiB removeable memory card.  It had an obsolete version of Ubuntu installed that was really slow.  I installed Peppermint Five and this booted up fine.  It ran okay, as long as I kept the web browser usage down to a bare minimum.  For example, don't expect Flash based videos to run.  I couldn't reasonably expect to have more than two apps open at the same time.  I increased the RAM to the maximum of 1.5GB for this machine and installed Peppermint Six 32-bit.  I've also reduced the swappiness from the default setting of 60 to 1.  This has significantly enhanced the performance of this little netbook.  It now runs as a very capable little light weight computer.  It's never going to breath fire.  These little netbooks were never expected to do that  :).  With a minimum amount of modifications and tweaking, lower RAM machines can be made into very serviceable computers. 

I would say, 1GB on a 32-bit machine is going to be the bare minimum comfortable working RAM.  It's still going to annoy you at times  >:(.  With 1.5GB, you'll have a very capable machine.  With 2GB or more, you'll have no complaints whatsoever.  All of this is based on my own experience of Peppermint on a low RAM machine.  Other people may have differing views, based on their own experiences.  I hope you find this helpful and it gives you a better idea of what to expect from these lower RAM machines  ;).
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: Slim.Fatz on August 03, 2015, 02:16:24 am
Hi paulus,


Terms such as comfortable or satisfactory are notoriously subjective and in the context of this thread they also depend greatly upon your typical software usage habits. What might be just great for me might be intolerable for you. But, having said that, I think that what AndyInMokum wrote is a good guide for you.


Regards,


-- Slim

Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: paulus on August 03, 2015, 09:15:37 am
Hi paulus, how's it going?  I'll throw in my thoughts on the comfortable minimum working RAM.  Back in March 2015, I bought an old Acer Aspire One ZG5 from Marktplaats.  It had the default, 1GB of RAM.  One permanent 512MiB card and one 512MiB removeable memory card.  It had an obsolete version of Ubuntu installed that was really slow.  I installed Peppermint Five and this booted up fine.  It ran okay, as long as I kept the web browser usage down to a bare minimum.  For example, don't expect Flash based videos to run.  I couldn't reasonably expect to have more than two apps open at the same time.  I increased the RAM to the maximum of 1.5GB for this machine and installed Peppermint Six 32-bit.  I've also reduced the swappiness from the default setting of 60 to 1.  This has significantly enhanced the performance of this little netbook.  It now runs as a very capable little light weight computer.  It's never going to breath fire.  These little netbooks were never expected to do that  :).  With a minimum amount of modifications and tweaking, lower RAM machines can be made into very serviceable computers. 

I would say, 1GB on a 32-bit machine is going to be the bare minimum comfortable working RAM.  It's still going to annoy you at times  >:(.  With 1.5GB, you'll have a very capable machine.  With 2GB or more, you'll have no complaints whatsoever.  All of this is based on my own experience of Peppermint on a low RAM machine.  Other people may have differing views, based on their own experiences.  I hope you find this helpful and it gives you a better idea of what to expect from these lower RAM machines  ;).

Many thanks, both AndyInMokum and Slim.Fatz,

It's good to see things from a multitude of meanings, ways to look at it, aspects etc. So also regarding this subject.

I have a question to AndyInMokum: you lowered the swappiness from 60 to 1; isn't that too low? A I read on several forums, e.g. https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/first#TOC-Decrease-the-swap-use-very-important- it is recommended to put it down to 10, regarding the amount of RAM. In this case is recommended 10:

Code: [Select]
Note: your machine might benefit from an even bigger decrease in swappiness. A useful rule of thumb might be this:
1 GB RAM or more: swappiness at 10
Less than 1 GB RAM: swappiness at 5
Please explain to me why only 1 is better than 10. I really like to learn more from your knowledge! ;D

Thanks again!

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: AndyInMokum on August 03, 2015, 10:58:48 am
Hi paulus, how's it going?  I'll throw in my thoughts on the comfortable minimum working RAM.  Back in March 2015, I bought an old Acer Aspire One ZG5 from Marktplaats.  It had the default, 1GB of RAM.  One permanent 512MiB card and one 512MiB removeable memory card.  It had an obsolete version of Ubuntu installed that was really slow.  I installed Peppermint Five and this booted up fine.  It ran okay, as long as I kept the web browser usage down to a bare minimum.  For example, don't expect Flash based videos to run.  I couldn't reasonably expect to have more than two apps open at the same time.  I increased the RAM to the maximum of 1.5GB for this machine and installed Peppermint Six 32-bit.  I've also reduced the swappiness from the default setting of 60 to 1.  This has significantly enhanced the performance of this little netbook.  It now runs as a very capable little light weight computer.  It's never going to breath fire.  These little netbooks were never expected to do that  :).  With a minimum amount of modifications and tweaking, lower RAM machines can be made into very serviceable computers. 

I would say, 1GB on a 32-bit machine is going to be the bare minimum comfortable working RAM.  It's still going to annoy you at times  >:(.  With 1.5GB, you'll have a very capable machine.  With 2GB or more, you'll have no complaints whatsoever.  All of this is based on my own experience of Peppermint on a low RAM machine.  Other people may have differing views, based on their own experiences.  I hope you find this helpful and it gives you a better idea of what to expect from these lower RAM machines  ;).

Many thanks, both AndyInMokum and Slim.Fatz,

It's good to see things from a multitude of meanings, ways to look at it, aspects etc. So also regarding this subject.

I have a question to AndyInMokum: you lowered the swappiness from 60 to 1; isn't that too low? A I read on several forums, e.g. https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/first#TOC-Decrease-the-swap-use-very-important- it is recommended to put it down to 10, regarding the amount of RAM. In this case is recommended 10:

Code: [Select]
Note: your machine might benefit from an even bigger decrease in swappiness. A useful rule of thumb might be this:
1 GB RAM or more: swappiness at 10
Less than 1 GB RAM: swappiness at 5
Please explain to me why only 1 is better than 10. I really like to learn more from your knowledge! ;D

Thanks again!

paulus
My Acer Aspire One has an SSD.  I want to minimize unnecessary writing to the SSD in order to help preserve it.  Reducing the swappiness to 1 accomplishes this very well..  If you are using an SSB on any machine, I recommend reducing the swappiness to 1.  Continuously writing to an SSD is not good for it and can reduce its operational life significantly.   I have even reduced it to 1 on my 64-bit machine with 4GB RAM and a 750GB HDD, just to boost its performance.  On any desktop machine, you really don't want it any higher than 10.  I even think this is too high.  I find 1 works really well for me.  It gives me the best performance from my machines.  Just don't set it to 0.  That's when you end up crashing your computer, when you run out of RAM.  Here's a great link explaining how to get the most out of your SSD: https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd (https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd).  This link is well worth bookmarking ;).
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: paulus on August 03, 2015, 01:59:14 pm
Hi paulus, how's it going?  I'll throw in my thoughts on the comfortable minimum working RAM.  Back in March 2015, I bought an old Acer Aspire One ZG5 from Marktplaats.  It had the default, 1GB of RAM.  One permanent 512MiB card and one 512MiB removeable memory card.  It had an obsolete version of Ubuntu installed that was really slow.  I installed Peppermint Five and this booted up fine.  It ran okay, as long as I kept the web browser usage down to a bare minimum.  For example, don't expect Flash based videos to run.  I couldn't reasonably expect to have more than two apps open at the same time.  I increased the RAM to the maximum of 1.5GB for this machine and installed Peppermint Six 32-bit.  I've also reduced the swappiness from the default setting of 60 to 1.  This has significantly enhanced the performance of this little netbook.  It now runs as a very capable little light weight computer.  It's never going to breath fire.  These little netbooks were never expected to do that  :).  With a minimum amount of modifications and tweaking, lower RAM machines can be made into very serviceable computers. 

I would say, 1GB on a 32-bit machine is going to be the bare minimum comfortable working RAM.  It's still going to annoy you at times  >:(.  With 1.5GB, you'll have a very capable machine.  With 2GB or more, you'll have no complaints whatsoever.  All of this is based on my own experience of Peppermint on a low RAM machine.  Other people may have differing views, based on their own experiences.  I hope you find this helpful and it gives you a better idea of what to expect from these lower RAM machines  ;).

Many thanks, both AndyInMokum and Slim.Fatz,

It's good to see things from a multitude of meanings, ways to look at it, aspects etc. So also regarding this subject.

I have a question to AndyInMokum: you lowered the swappiness from 60 to 1; isn't that too low? A I read on several forums, e.g. https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/first#TOC-Decrease-the-swap-use-very-important- it is recommended to put it down to 10, regarding the amount of RAM. In this case is recommended 10:

Code: [Select]
Note: your machine might benefit from an even bigger decrease in swappiness. A useful rule of thumb might be this:
1 GB RAM or more: swappiness at 10
Less than 1 GB RAM: swappiness at 5
Please explain to me why only 1 is better than 10. I really like to learn more from your knowledge! ;D

Thanks again!

paulus
My Acer Aspire One has an SSD.  I want to minimize unnecessary writing to the SSD in order to help preserve it.  Reducing the swappiness to 1 accomplishes this very well..  If you are using an SSB on any machine, I recommend reducing the swappiness to 1.  Continuously writing to an SSD is not good for it and can reduce its operational life significantly.   I have even reduced it to 1 on my 64-bit machine with 4GB RAM and a 750GB HDD, just to boost its performance.  On any desktop machine, you really don't want it any higher than 10.  I even think this is too high.  I find 1 works really well for me.  It gives me the best performance from my machines.  Just don't set it to 0.  That's when you end up crashing your computer, when you run out of RAM.  Here's a great link explaining how to get the most out of your SSD: https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd (https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd).  This link is well worth bookmarking ;).

Thank you for answering!

I knew that for SSD swappiness 1 is the best value, but for HDD I didn't presume that also 1 is the best setting.

I also have 4 GB RAM on a 64-machine with 25 GB empty space left on my HDD-Peppermint-partition. So, if I understand well, you would advice me to lower swappiness to 1 in stead of 10, which I allocated before? :-\
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: VinDSL on August 03, 2015, 08:49:31 pm
Thank you for answering!

I knew that for SSD swappiness 1 is the best value, but for HDD I didn't presume that also 1 is the best setting.

For the sake of discussion, here's how I config my HDD system...

Code: [Select]
vindsl@Zuul:~$ sudo sysctl -p
[sudo] password for vindsl:
kernel.shmmax = 100000000
vm.overcommit_memory = 0
vm.overcommit_ratio = 50
vm.dirty_background_ratio = 10
vm.dirty_ratio = 15
vm.swappiness = 10
vindsl@Zuul:~$ cat /etc/security/limits.conf
# /etc/security/limits.conf
#
#Each line describes a limit for a user in the form:
#
#<domain>        <type>  <item>  <value>
#
#Where:
#<domain> can be:
#        - a user name
#        - a group name, with @group syntax
#        - the wildcard *, for default entry
#        - the wildcard %, can be also used with %group syntax,
#                 for maxlogin limit
#        - NOTE: group and wildcard limits are not applied to root.
#          To apply a limit to the root user, <domain> must be
#          the literal username root.
#
#<type> can have the two values:
#        - "soft" for enforcing the soft limits
#        - "hard" for enforcing hard limits
#
#<item> can be one of the following:
#        - core - limits the core file size (KB)
#        - data - max data size (KB)
#        - fsize - maximum filesize (KB)
#        - memlock - max locked-in-memory address space (KB)
#        - nofile - max number of open files
#        - rss - max resident set size (KB)
#        - stack - max stack size (KB)
#        - cpu - max CPU time (MIN)
#        - nproc - max number of processes
#        - as - address space limit (KB)
#        - maxlogins - max number of logins for this user
#        - maxsyslogins - max number of logins on the system
#        - priority - the priority to run user process with
#        - locks - max number of file locks the user can hold
#        - sigpending - max number of pending signals
#        - msgqueue - max memory used by POSIX message queues (bytes)
#        - nice - max nice priority allowed to raise to values: [-20, 19]
#        - rtprio - max realtime priority
#        - chroot - change root to directory (Debian-specific)
#
#<domain>      <type>  <item>         <value>
#

* soft    core            0
root hard    core            1024
#*               hard    rss             10000
#@student        hard    nproc           20
#@faculty        soft    nproc           20
#@faculty        hard    nproc           50
#ftp             hard    nproc           0
#ftp             -       chroot          /ftp
#@student        -       maxlogins       4

# End of file
vindsl@Zuul:~$

I'm NOT suggesting anyone else should do this.  Just saying...   ;)
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: AndyInMokum on August 04, 2015, 12:58:37 am
Hi paulus, how's it going?  Yeah, dropping the swappiness down to 1 isn't going to hurt.  You've plenty of RAM to spare.  I hate it when the swap space starts to be used.  Everything slows down to a crawl.   I want to keep everything in RAM; where it's nice and quick.  If 1 doesn't work for you.  Raise the swappiness up in increments until you find your, "sweet spot".  I look at it this way.  Peppermint is built to be quick.  I'm going to do everything possible, to keep it that way  ;).
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: paulus on August 04, 2015, 12:59:07 pm
@VinDSL,
Thank you for your reaction! I see that your swappiness is set to 10.

@AndyInMokum,
Thanks for replying! According to your advice I dropped my swappiness to 1, and till now I didn't have any problems with that. I notice that my memory level is higher than before, but that's just the goal of it: to put more in memory in stead of swapping to the HDD all the time! :D

I continue to work with this 1-level and if there are remarkable things that show up, I will let know here.

Off topic: According to your name we are almost neighbors! If that is the case, I can compliment you with your excellent knowledge of the English language! :o  If your nickname wasn't like that, I really thought that you were a native speaker! :)

Kind regards,

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: AndyInMokum on August 04, 2015, 02:22:10 pm
Hi paulus, I'll let into something that's top secret.  I'm English  :o!!  I've been permanently living in Amsterdam since 2006.  You're from Hoofddorp, so we are neighbours.  Thanks for the compliment though  :D.
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: paulus on August 04, 2015, 02:31:57 pm
Hi AndyInAmsterdam :D,

I've found a new (nick)name for you, but don't feel obliged to use it! :-\

I was already jealous, because of your excellent knowledge of English, because I can't keep up with you! :-[

But by confession you're English: you made my dag! ;D ;D

Thank you very, very much! 8)

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: AndyInMokum on August 04, 2015, 04:05:51 pm
Hi AndyInAmsterdam :D,

I've found a new (nick)name for you, but don't feel obliged to use it! :-\

I was already jealous, because of your excellent knowledge of English, because I can't keep up with you! :-[

But by confession you're English: you made my dag! ;D ;D

Thank you very, very much! 8)

paulus
:D!!
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: Slim.Fatz on August 04, 2015, 04:17:01 pm
Hi paulus, I'll let into something that's top secret.  I'm English  :o !!.


A-HA !! I always knew that something about AndyInMokum was suspicious! Now we have it !!  :P


Regards,


-- Slim

Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: paulus on August 08, 2015, 10:42:00 am
@VinDSL,
Thank you for your reaction! I see that your swappiness is set to 10.

@AndyInMokum,
Thanks for replying! According to your advice I dropped my swappiness to 1, and till now I didn't have any problems with that. I notice that my memory level is higher than before, but that's just the goal of it: to put more in memory in stead of swapping to the HDD all the time! :D

I continue to work with this 1-level and if there are remarkable things that show up, I will let know here.


As I wrote I would let know if something showed up, well, it did.

As I updated Thunderbird, and put some add-ons to it, it really stuck and the whole system became so unresponsive that I had to wait several minutes to become responsive again, only by closing every running program. My CPU monitor was on 100% all the time.

I know the cause was Thunderbird, but this kind of absence of a working machine had much to do with the swappiness of 1. So I changed it to 5, and now I just experiment with this amount, in order to see if this is a better number in my situation.

Till now it is just fine, so I guess swappiness of 5 is a good compromise and literately the (rounded) average of 1 and 10. ::)

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: AndyInMokum on August 08, 2015, 11:25:33 am
@VinDSL,
Thank you for your reaction! I see that your swappiness is set to 10.

@AndyInMokum,
Thanks for replying! According to your advice I dropped my swappiness to 1, and till now I didn't have any problems with that. I notice that my memory level is higher than before, but that's just the goal of it: to put more in memory in stead of swapping to the HDD all the time! :D

I continue to work with this 1-level and if there are remarkable things that show up, I will let know here.


As I wrote I would let know if something showed up, well, it did.

As I updated Thunderbird, and put some add-ons to it, it really stuck and the whole system became so unresponsive that I had to wait several minutes to become responsive again, only by closing every running program. My CPU monitor was on 100% all the time.

I know the cause was Thunderbird, but this kind of absence of a working machine had much to do with the swappiness of 1. So I changed it to 5, and now I just experiment with this amount, in order to see if this is a better number in my situation.

Till now it is just fine, so I guess swappiness of 5 is a good compromise and literately the (rounded) average of 1 and 10. ::)

paulus
Cool, I guess that 5 is your sweet spot  ;).
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: paulus on August 08, 2015, 12:07:12 pm
Hi AndyInMokum,

I guess it is! I just have to experiment with it, and see how my Peppermint will deal with another memory hog.

Thanks again; so you "survived" the exposure?! :-\ Well, I'm glad you did, not in the first place for being such a good guide! ;) :D

paulus
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: AndyInMokum on August 08, 2015, 01:31:03 pm
Oh yes, my secret is out  ;D.  It's almost one of those Scheveningen moments  ;D.  Yup, Thunderbird is one greedy, grunt pig when it comes to memory usage.  That's why I don't use it.  It's a Gmail SSB for me  ;).
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? &gt;SOLVED&lt;
Post by: 10i on August 10, 2015, 08:57:29 am
Oh yes, my secret is out  ;D.  It's almost one of those Scheveningen moments  ;D.  Yup, Thunderbird is one greedy, grunt pig when it comes to memory usage.  That's why I don't use it.  It's a Gmail SSB for me  ;).
I haven't used a desktop email client in a long while. Too many emails and they tend to slow down terribly.

Gmail or Hotmail is better IMHO. At least we have options for those wanting it. I just can't recommend it.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? &gt;SOLVED&lt;
Post by: VinDSL on August 14, 2015, 06:59:35 pm
I haven't used a desktop email client in a long while. Too many emails and they tend to slow down terribly.

Just use an IMAP client (like Thunderbird)  - subscribe to whichever folders you want - and download the headers only.  Also, set it up to delete emails immediately, e.g. don't send them to 'trash'.

Flies like the wind !!!   ;)
Title: Re: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<
Post by: 10i on August 16, 2015, 02:16:04 am
It looks doable, but at this point I find it easier to go to www.gmail.com or to use ICE.

I have had mayor trouble with imap, as my Internet connection is not always stable.

My primary method of checking mail is on my Android phone.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Tapatalk