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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: scifidude79 on July 14, 2015, 10:52:54 am

Title: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 14, 2015, 10:52:54 am
In case anybody is suddenly having Flash related issues in Firefox, this is why:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/14/8957177/mozilla-blocks-flash-as-facebook-security-chief-calls-for-its-death

If you ask me, everyone everywhere should stop using Flash.  It's horrible and outdated.  But, some site insist on still using it.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 14, 2015, 11:50:28 am
It's not being blocked by my version of Firefox (39) which is the latest  :-\
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 14, 2015, 12:45:54 pm
Yeah, I haven't figured out if that means the next version or what.  :-\ I saw this earlier and just wanted to make sure everybody was aware of this in case people come around asking about it.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 14, 2015, 04:18:30 pm
Good idea :)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on July 14, 2015, 10:21:05 pm
Apparently you're not alone, scifidude79

Today I read this article about Firefox's current problem with Flash.  Although I know very little about Flash in general.  I've read that killbits is supposed to be a safer alternative to Flash.

Everything I've read about Flash has said that its day has come and gone.  Yes, Flash should be retired.  ;)

I'm wondering if Flash in Chrome, or Chromium, would be any safer for its users until Flash is finally put out to pasture.  :-\

http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/07/firefox-blacklists-flash-player-due-to-unpatched-0-day-vulnerabilities/ (http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/07/firefox-blacklists-flash-player-due-to-unpatched-0-day-vulnerabilities/)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 15, 2015, 01:42:19 am
Flash in Chrome is the same thing that you get from installing the browser plugin from the repositories.  It just comes bundled with the browser.  So, it wouldn't be any more or less safe.

HTML5 is the future.  No plugin required.  Sites like YouTube are on that now, I even read that Netflix is using it now.  We just need sites like Amazon and others to get aboard and we can officially kick Flash to the curb.

I'll tell you what's hilarious is that Facebook is apparently behind Firefox's move.  I want to know how they think that's a great idea when they're one of the biggest sites keeping Flash alive.  It's what videos on there use and it's what their stupid games use too.  Kill Flash and you cripple Facebook.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: AndyInMokum on July 15, 2015, 02:04:43 am
Flash in Chrome is the same thing that you get from installing the browser plugin from the repositories.  It just comes bundled with the browser.  So, it wouldn't be any more or less safe.

HTML5 is the future.  No plugin required.  Sites like YouTube are on that now, I even read that Netflix is using it now.  We just need sites like Amazon and others to get aboard and we can officially kick Flash to the curb.

I'll tell you what's hilarious is that Facebook is apparently behind Firefox's move.  I want to know how they think that's a great idea when they're one of the biggest sites keeping Flash alive.  It's what videos on there use and it's what their stupid games use too.  Kill Flash and you cripple Facebook.
What's needed is for Microsoft to pull the plug on on Flash; just like Mac did.  Give its users a notice period.  After that has expired.  It's tough luck matey - use HTML5.  That would put the final nail in Flash's coffin  ;)!!
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 15, 2015, 02:14:16 am
What's needed is for Microsoft to pull the plug on on Flash; just like Mac did.  Give its users a notice period.  After that has expired.  It's tough luck matey - use HTML5.  That would put the final nail in Flash's coffin  ;)!!

Yeah, that would probably do the trick.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 15, 2015, 05:57:53 am
I take it back, flash is indeed being blocked by Firefox 39 .. so thanks for the heads up scifidude79 :)

It no longer has an option to "Always Activate" the plugin .. your options are "Ask to Activate" or "Never Activate", as in the first pic below

With it set to "Ask to Activate" the second pic shows a dialog asking you to "Allow" or "Continue blocking"

and if you click "Allow", your then presented with an option to "Allow Now" or "Allow and Remember" as in the third pic.

Pretty much a flashblocker with a whitelist .. though I'd still use the Flashblock extension to block ALL flash content allowing you to enable them on an item by item basis

(click image to enlarge)
(http://i.imgur.com/D0xl8HR.png)

(click image to enlarge)
(http://i.imgur.com/OMO776B.png)

(click image to enlarge)
(http://i.imgur.com/TQvmSXq.png)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on July 15, 2015, 08:04:42 am
Hey, two thumbs up for System 76.  See!  There's a movement afoot --even if it's not moving like a Flash! :P

System76 removes Adobe Flash from its Ubuntu Linux computers

By Brian Fagioli for betanews.com

http://betanews.com/2015/07/14/system76-removes-adobe-flash-from-its-ubuntu-linux-computers/ (http://betanews.com/2015/07/14/system76-removes-adobe-flash-from-its-ubuntu-linux-computers/)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 15, 2015, 08:50:34 am
Flash NEEDS to die, but trying to kill it by making it difficult for users to access it (when massive chunks of the web still use it) is a ****ing stupid idea.

It needs developers to be talked into stopping using it, and replacing their current flash content .. this isn't a user generated problem, so why are they being targeted for the hit ::)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 15, 2015, 11:14:43 am
I take it back, flash is indeed being blocked by Firefox 39 .. so thanks for the heads up scifidude79 :)

The funny part is, I didn't even know until I saw that story.  I don't even have Flash installed.  :))
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on July 16, 2015, 07:46:02 am
Hello my friends,

Yesterday I found myself of advising a long, lifetime friend of nearly fifty years, to use Chrome browser within her Windows 7 laptop computer instead of using Firefox browser within her very comfortable desktop computer that is running Xubuntu 14.04.2.  I advised her to do this when she does banking, or when doing anything requiring the highest levels of security online, because of the risk factors involved with using Flash within Firefox browser of which we have been discussing.

See, on her 11-year-old HP desktop, she cannot run Peppermint, or Google Chrome, or anything that has a Chromium base.  Also her computer will not work with the latest versions of Flash either, so with help from my friends here within Peppermint forum (in this particularly case, PCNetSpec), I was able to give her old computer new life, but at the cost of having an old unsupported version of Flash.

Tell me, old Peppermint vets, did I advise this woman wisely for her particular situation?  On one hand I feel quite guilty advising this woman to use anything Windows related, but, on the other hand, because of the unsupported version of Flash within her Xubuntu installation, I felt this was the most prudent advice to give her until Flash itself eventually goes the way of the horse and buggy.

Crazy isn't it --the anxiety Flash is giving to its users lately?  The more I think about this issue, the more I think Flash needs to be retired as quickly as possible.  The worse thing about having given this advice to my longtime friend, is that I know it is because of the use of Windows that Flash is staying around as long as it is.  Knowing this gives me a  >:( feeling when advising to her use Chrome within Windows 7.  It feels a bit like I'm asking her to help keep the monster --the very same monster that wants to eat us all.  ::)

Did I overreact, and commit an unpardonable sin, when advising my friend to use her Windows 7 computer for the reasons mentioned above?  Or, in this case, did I advise this woman wisely?

Thanks so much,

perknh
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on July 16, 2015, 08:48:46 am
Hi perknh,

Personally I would have told her to stay with her Xubuntu + Firefox or Google-Chrome. Whether that is the safest, I don't know. Maybe someone with more knowledge will let us know.

What she and everyone else should start doing is officially complaining to their bank about using Flash on their banking pages.

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 16, 2015, 08:54:36 am
Flash has got vulnerabilities, but only if the website with the flash content is specifically taking advantage of them.

Something tells me her bank are not going to be using flash content to attack her PC ;)

Just tell her when banking to only have one tab open (the banking one), and she should be safe.
(in fact you should do this anyway)

Pepperflash in Chrome on Windows has the same vulnerabilities .. sure as a PPAPI plugin it's sandboxed, but the running instance still has the same vulnerabilities.

And I'd not personally be advising the use of Windows over Linux for online banking under ANY circumstances .. windows will ALWAYS be a bigger risk.
(even if flash were safer, which it isn't, the rest of the OS has more holes than a fishing net .. it's MUCH more likely that some other Windows vulnerability or malware will be the source of any leak)

The ONLY reason to not use Linux over Windows for online banking is if the banks fraud protection guarantee expressly prohibits its use.
(Natwest bank in the UK used to [dunno if they still do] say the only time they'd guarantee cover against online fraud was if you were using Windows or OS X and IE/Chrome/Firefox .. f*cking insane I know, but those were their rules ::) )
But even then I'd be more likely to use Linux with a user agent switcher so it reported to the banks website that I was running Windows, then just not tell them ;)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 16, 2015, 09:44:56 am
Further info -

Sense seems to be prevailing......

I just got a flashplugin-installer update (11.2.202.491) and the Shockwave Flash plugin is back to "Always Activated" in Firefox 39 again. :)
(so flash is no longer being blocked by Firefox 39 in any way, shap,e or form)

I hate flash with a vengeance (badly written resource hog that it's become), but IMHO it's wrong to block users from accessing it (specially whilst it's still widely used) .. the target should be to get web devs to stop using it, or offer alternatives with a higher priority (in a way were websites load an HTML5 version if it's available).

But it NEEDS to be that websites stop offering it, not that browsers stop accessing it .. I didn't give Mozilla a remit to make judgement calls on  what I can and can't load .. by all means WARN me of the possible dangers, then load the damn flash if I want it.
(and even give me the option to disable the warnings once I've said I understand the risks)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on July 16, 2015, 10:24:19 am
Thank you Slim and PCNetSpec,

I want the two of you to know that I read your responses to my friend whose computer runs Xubuntu, with the unsupported version of Flash, and she will now continue to use Firefox in Xubuntu --with ONLY one tab open when doing her online banking..

Although well-intended, I gave this terrific woman poor advice.  And I have now retracted this advice, and informed her of my error. 

Sometimes we need to have one tab, and only one tab open, we we are online taking care of important financial or personal matters.  How easy it is to overlook such a simple and sensible practice.

Thank you very, very much.

perknh

P.S.

In the meantime, I will eagerly await the day when Flash is no longer in use anywhere on the web at all.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: VinDSL on July 16, 2015, 08:13:43 pm
I disabled Flash in Chromium three days ago, just to see what would happen.

The only difference I've noticed was one time, on one news site.  They used their own home-brew flash player, which didn't display the video, of course - just a small notification that Flash needed to be installed or updated to see the video, with the obligatory link to Adobe.  LoL

I'm just gonna keep running Chromium with Flash disabled.  It hasn't created any problems for me, yet...  ;)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on July 16, 2015, 08:55:32 pm
I disabled Flash in Chromium three days ago, just to see what would happen.

I just did the same, and YouTube is working just fine so far without it.

Simple enough:  chrome://plugins > Hit Enter > Go to Adobe Flash Player > Click Disable

That is easy peasy, nice and easy.  :)

I'm going to trying living without Flash in my Chromium browser too.

Great idea, VinDSL!  ;)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: VinDSL on July 16, 2015, 09:15:04 pm
It seems to have improved Chromium's performance and behavior, of this machine, too.   ;)



Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 16, 2015, 09:33:18 pm
Wait until you find a YouTube video in a codec your system can't play.   ;)  I've found a few of those since I got rid of Flash.  Mostly just trailers for games on Steam Greenlight.  I figure it's the uploaders' fault for using some weird codec.  ;)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: VinDSL on July 17, 2015, 07:18:17 am
Wait until you find a YouTube video in a codec your system can't play.   ;)

Actually, I'm looking for a little better performance in Chromium on low resource machines.  A few years ago, I used to be able to open 20-30 tabs in Chromium on this machine, without breaking_a_sweat.  Those days are over.

I'm lucky if I can open three 'complex' sites in tabs at the same time, for instance: LinkedIn, Plug.dj, and Soundcloud, without having Chromium lag out and/or the entire system freeze. 

Disabling Flash made a noticeable improvement, in this regard...

I've also limited the core file size:

Code: [Select]
vindsl@Zuul:~$ cat /etc/security/limits.conf
# /etc/security/limits.conf
#
#Each line describes a limit for a user in the form:
#
#<domain>        <type>  <item>  <value>
#
#Where:
#<domain> can be:
#        - a user name
#        - a group name, with @group syntax
#        - the wildcard *, for default entry
#        - the wildcard %, can be also used with %group syntax,
#                 for maxlogin limit
#        - NOTE: group and wildcard limits are not applied to root.
#          To apply a limit to the root user, <domain> must be
#          the literal username root.
#
#<type> can have the two values:
#        - "soft" for enforcing the soft limits
#        - "hard" for enforcing hard limits
#
#<item> can be one of the following:
#        - core - limits the core file size (KB)
#        - data - max data size (KB)
#        - fsize - maximum filesize (KB)
#        - memlock - max locked-in-memory address space (KB)
#        - nofile - max number of open files
#        - rss - max resident set size (KB)
#        - stack - max stack size (KB)
#        - cpu - max CPU time (MIN)
#        - nproc - max number of processes
#        - as - address space limit (KB)
#        - maxlogins - max number of logins for this user
#        - maxsyslogins - max number of logins on the system
#        - priority - the priority to run user process with
#        - locks - max number of file locks the user can hold
#        - sigpending - max number of pending signals
#        - msgqueue - max memory used by POSIX message queues (bytes)
#        - nice - max nice priority allowed to raise to values: [-20, 19]
#        - rtprio - max realtime priority
#        - chroot - change root to directory (Debian-specific)
#
#<domain>      <type>  <item>         <value>
#

* soft    core            0
root hard    core            1024
#*               hard    rss             10000
#@student        hard    nproc           20
#@faculty        soft    nproc           20
#@faculty        hard    nproc           50
#ftp             hard    nproc           0
#ftp             -       chroot          /ftp
#@student        -       maxlogins       4

# End of file
vindsl@Zuul:~$


vindsl@Zuul:~$ vindsl@Zuul:~$ ulimit -a
core file size          (blocks, -c) 0
data seg size           (kbytes, -d) unlimited
scheduling priority             (-e) 0
file size               (blocks, -f) unlimited
pending signals                 (-i) 7844
max locked memory       (kbytes, -l) 64
max memory size         (kbytes, -m) unlimited
open files                      (-n) 1024
pipe size            (512 bytes, -p) 8
POSIX message queues     (bytes, -q) 819200
real-time priority              (-r) 0
stack size              (kbytes, -s) 8192
cpu time               (seconds, -t) unlimited
max user processes              (-u) 7844
virtual memory          (kbytes, -v) unlimited
file locks                      (-x) unlimited
vindsl@Zuul:~$

And, tuned the VM:

Code: [Select]
vindsl@Zuul:~$ sudo sysctl -p
[sudo] password for vindsl:
kernel.shmmax = 100000000
vm.overcommit_memory = 0
vm.overcommit_ratio = 50
vm.dirty_background_ratio = 10
vm.dirty_ratio = 15
vm.swappiness = 10
vindsl@Zuul:~$

Web performance will never be the way it used to be, on ancient iron.  Everything has evolved to the point that simply surfing the web has become an arduous task.

Really, I think it's time for Flash to disappear from the face of the planet, like the other dinosaurs... 
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 17, 2015, 11:55:35 am
Really, I think it's time for Flash to disappear from the face of the planet, like the other dinosaurs...

Yes, definitely.  Silverlight too.  While less sites use it, there are still a few clinging to that crappy plugin.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on July 17, 2015, 12:53:29 pm
Really, I think it's time for Flash to disappear from the face of the planet, like the other dinosaurs...

Yes, definitely.  Silverlight too.  While less sites use it, there are still a few clinging to that crappy plugin.

And, one site which is still "clinging to that crappy plugin" is CNET.  I would have thought CNET would have transcended Flash by now.  By disabling Flash within Chromium, I'm learning more and more about the sites I visit.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 17, 2015, 01:11:28 pm
I haven't been on CNet in ages.

But, yeah, you'd think a big tech site like them wouldn't be using outdated web protocols.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: curtvaughan on July 21, 2015, 06:37:35 pm
Flash NEEDS to die, but trying to kill it by making it difficult for users to access it (when massive chunks of the web still use it) is a ****ing stupid idea.

It needs developers to be talked into stopping using it, and replacing their current flash content .. this isn't a user generated problem, so why are they being targeted for the hit ::)

I agree with this.  I'm a big fan of bicycle racing - a survivor of the Lance Armstrong debacle, even as an Austinite - and paid a fee to NBC Sports for network coverage (both live and replays) of the Tour de France, which began on July 4 and continues until the end of the month.  This flash debacle started after one week into my subscription, and unfortunately, NBC Sports uses Flash.  Most of my browsers on various computers (Firefox,Chrome, Chromium, Safari, and Midori) had to be reconfigured/updated in order for my subscription to work.  If content providers still use Flash, something needs to be done to get them to reconfigure their servers before interrupting access to downstream paying clientele.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 24, 2015, 02:22:00 pm
I find the fact that quite a few of the "major" entertainment sites still using Flash to be disturbing.  As I indicated, I don't have the flash plugin installed, so all I have to do to see if a site still uses flash is to try playing something.  As I already indicated earlier, Amazon still uses it and (even worse) Silverlight.  Yuck.  I found out the other day that Hulu is still using Flash.  Of course, Facebook does.  (try watching one of the FB hosted videos with no flash plugin ::) )  Various sports and news websites use it.  The problem is, people go to sites like these and see that they have to have that stupid plugin to view content, so they install it without question.  That's what is keeping Flash alive.  So, while we can blame the end user or Microsoft or whatever, the truth is that the big issue is still sites using Flash.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: AndyInMokum on July 24, 2015, 05:51:24 pm
I know what you mean scifidude79.  I was following what, VinDSL was saying and I disabled Flash in Google Chrome.  I was really shocked when the BBC iPlayer wouldn't work until it was re-enabled  :o!  I really think that the major web browser providers should put their heads together and work out a schedule of mutually phasing out Flash support.  This will give site owners time to convert to HTML5.   Without some sort of bullying tactic, Flash is never going to fully disappear.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on July 24, 2015, 06:24:07 pm
I agree what everyone has said above.  ;) 

This is what my local newspaper says when I visit its site:

(http://admin.brightcove.com/viewer/upgrade_flash_player2.gif)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 24, 2015, 06:44:18 pm
I really think that the major web browser providers should put their heads together and work out a schedule of mutually phasing out Flash support.  This will give site owners time to convert to HTML5.   Without some sort of bullying tactic, Flash is never going to fully disappear.

So you think it's for the browser authors to dictate web site content and protocols ?

Have you taken a job at Google Andy ?  :o

Wouldn't work anyway .. if the major browsers got together and dropped Flash, another browser would pop up to fill the gap using Flash support as its selling point .. and the big boys know it.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on July 24, 2015, 06:57:43 pm
But, PCNetSpec, Andy could be correct about this.  As Gandhi said, "When the people lead, the leaders will follow."  Who knows?  Maybe scifidude79 has kicked off a quiet little revolution to gently retire Flash from the world.  And to think this gentle revolution to retire Flash all began right here within Peppermint Forum.  ;)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: AndyInMokum on July 24, 2015, 06:59:17 pm
Something  has to be done about it.  Flash is becoming a liability and it's only going to get worse.  If Adobe won't do the right thing and pull the plug.  The next level in the food chain should start to take responsibility.  Flash is like cyber herpes.  It just won't go away  >:( 
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 24, 2015, 08:03:10 pm
The ONLY people that can break this cycle other than the users (who won't whilst the big sites use it) and Adobe (who won't for obvious reasons) is the site authors.

They are the ONLY ones with the power to get rid of flash without interrupting content .. these are the people that need targeting, it's NOT a browser authors place to dictate web content accessibility and protocols, nor a user created problem.



I REPEAT .. I hate Flash with a vengeance, but if Firefox (or any other browser) tries to deny me access to Flash content, I'll drop that browser immediately.
(if for no other reason than a political statement .. I will NOT have them dictating to me what I do on the web, they can INFORM me of the risks, but the final decision to access flash or not has to lie with the user .. meanwhile site authors need to be tempted away from it, and that's happening anyway so there's no need to screw over users)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 24, 2015, 08:11:06 pm
The ONLY people that can break this cycle other than the users (who won't whilst the big sites use it) and Adobe (who won't for obvious reasons) is the site authors.

They are the ONLY ones with the power to get rid of flash without interrupting content .. these are the people that need targeting, it's NOT a browser authors place to dictate web content accessibility and protocols, nor a user created problem.



I REPEAT .. I hate Flash with a vengeance, but if Firefox (or any other browser) tries to deny me access to Flash content, I'll drop that browser immediately.

Yeah, what he said.  It's not the software providers' job, it's the site authors' job.  They have to kick Flash to the curb, which will make the plugin no longer useful and it will die a quiet death.  I'm not a fan of my web browser telling me what plugins I can and can't use either.  If I owned anything from Apple, who dropped Flash support, I'd be livid with them.  Because, without it, there is simply some stuff you can't view on the web.

Me choosing not to run it is something different.  The option is still there.  So, say I want to watch a show on Hulu.  (I'm in the middle of the first season of Lost in Space on there and may pick it back up at some point)  All I have to do is apt install flashplugin-installer and I'm good to go.  And, if that suddenly didn't work in Firefox, I'd just switch browsers to watch that show.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: VinDSL on July 24, 2015, 09:23:24 pm
I agree what everyone has said above.  ;) 

This is what my local newspaper says when I visit its site:

(http://admin.brightcove.com/viewer/upgrade_flash_player2.gif)

I get those too, occasionally, on antiquated   legacy web sites.  The funny thing is... 

I can't say I've missed anything that I care about.  It's a great way to get rid of cruft on news sites - you know, the ones that autoplay videos, whether you want to see them or not?!?!?

Adobe might be "sorry", but I'm not...   :D

Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on July 24, 2015, 09:31:35 pm
Hi VinDSL,

It is an antiquated site, and I'm still not going to enable Flash in Peppermint --no matter what it says.

I admit I always have fun here, and Gandhi* really is so quotable, but the truth is there has to be a global solution to this problem --meaning that the world's largest sites need to pull the plug on Flash.  That will do more than anything to resolve this problem than anything else.  I'm astonished here at the reports coming into Peppermint forum which name so many big sites that are still using Flash.  This, quite frankly, shocks me,  :o

Personally, I believe that Microsoft is actually the biggest culprit here for helping to keep Flash alive.  But I have no data to back up this claim.  This just seems like common sense to me.

*To the philosophically curious:   

Spoiler (click here to view / hide)
Using Gandhi as some sort of standard here, which I did in a previous post, is a form of fallacious thinking which is called "An appeal to authority."  I threw it in just because I like the quote.  On the other hand, a doctor can smoke and tell you that smoking is bad for your health.  Just because the doctor smokes does not mean that what he or she is saying is untrue.  In fact all scientific data will back up his or her claim whether or not the doctor smokes at all.
[close]
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: VinDSL on July 24, 2015, 09:58:36 pm
Hrm...

I'm curious if switching UAs will make any difference.

Hrm... I think I'll pretend I'm using an Android smartphone...

(http://i.imgur.com/Oq01jBh.png)

I'm gonna find a site with Flash content and give it a whirl.   ;D
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 24, 2015, 10:30:32 pm
I think the main sticking point  (and I could be wrong here) was the original lack of DRM in HTML5 which a lot of sites saw as necessary to protect their content .. leaving aside that's a stupid and disproven argument .. AFAIK, DRM has now been added, but not that long ago.

Point is .. Flash is dying anyway now, it doesn't need the web browser authors to hurt their users .. it's going to fade away all on its own (as evidenced by less sites using it now, and as sites are updated more of it will bite te dust).

But I'll GUARANTEE Firefox, Google, et al. will NOT disable flash support .. Firefox didn't, they just disabled it by default until the next version (all of a couple of days) .. if they dropped support altogether, their userbase would dry up overnight.....

Consider ths - If Mozilla and Google decided to drop support for Flash tomorrow, and Opera kept it (or any other browser) how many peolpe do you think would drop Firefox/Chrome and move to Opera when you consider 90%+ of Fekbook games are Flash ;)
(Ask Joe Average which is most important, their web browser of choice or access to Farmville/Candy Crush Saga/etc.)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: VinDSL on July 24, 2015, 10:41:01 pm
Aha!  Just as I suspected !!   8)

Found a stale news site with Flash content.

Here's a video in Chromium...

(http://i.imgur.com/aSHWEeH.png)


And, here's Chromium masquerading as an Android smartphone ...

(http://i.imgur.com/IbG4cna.png)

Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 24, 2015, 10:49:22 pm
It's a great way to get rid of cruft on news sites - you know, the ones that autoplay videos, whether you want to see them or not?!?!?

I know, right?  I'd rather see the "missing Adobe flash" thing than some of those autoplay videos.  In fact, autoplay videos are a pet peeve of mine.  If I choose to watch a video, fine.  If not, I shouldn't have it playing anyway, especially when I don't know it's there and I'm not expecting it (and probably don't have my speakers turned on.)  Stuff like that just slows your connection to other, better content that you're trying to load simultaneously.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: VinDSL on July 24, 2015, 11:16:51 pm
...autoplay videos are a pet peeve of mine. 

Me too !!

I have to be pretty  desperate to visit an 'alphabet news site' ABC- CBS - NBC - CNN, et cetera. 

They're the worst offenders, in my experience.  They'll clobber you with 2-3 autoplay videos at the same time.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: VinDSL on July 24, 2015, 11:27:38 pm
BTW, switching UAs is stupid simple, these days, via extensions.

Here's the one I use in Chromium:  https://goo.gl/YybG4
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 25, 2015, 02:46:17 am
...autoplay videos are a pet peeve of mine. 

Me too !!

I have to be pretty  desperate to visit an 'alphabet news site' ABC- CBS - NBC - CNN, et cetera. 

They're the worst offenders, in my experience.  They'll clobber you with 2-3 autoplay videos at the same time.

Yeah, I hate it when all I want is to read an article on one of those news sites and it's trying ro play a video.  I like NASCAR racing, but they do that on their site too.  It breaks my heart that the NASCAR website uses Flash, so I can't get those anymore.  ;)  Steam has auto play vids, but you can easily disable that on the site.  That's good, because they use HTML5 instead of Flash.

I read a while back that Google was adding a setting to Chrome to allow users to stop videos from automatically playing, but I don't know if they actually did it.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on July 25, 2015, 07:18:21 am
That's actually a great idea and something the browser devs *could* do .. if the browsers effectively had a flashblocker built in that simply required  you to click on flash content before it started to play website authors would quickly learn to code with HTML5 as their adverts would cease to function.

a) Users can still VERY easily access flash content

b) Site devs are encouraged to learn HTML5 for the adverts, and at the same time would be worried that the masses would get used to advert blocking.

I think a large part of the problem is there are a LOT of devs out there that know Flash and haven't bothered to learn HTML5 .. this will push them to learn or suffer the consequences.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on July 25, 2015, 12:03:51 pm
Mobile browsers have the ability to only use plugins on demand due to mobile data usage limits.  I don't see why they can't do that for desktop browsers.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on July 25, 2015, 02:18:35 pm
Hey, it works VinDSl. 

Great idea!   ;)

Thank you,

perknh
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: VinDSL on July 25, 2015, 03:07:35 pm
Hey, it works VinDSl. 

Great idea!   ;)

Thank you,

perknh

Great !!  I *thought* it might...   ;)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on August 12, 2015, 06:24:46 pm
Has anyone else noticed the new Firefox 40 defaults to HTML5 on sites like Youtube, even where flashplayer is installed.

This is a MUCH better way of pushing flash towards extinction than simply disabling flash by default.
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: scifidude79 on August 12, 2015, 08:04:44 pm
That's the way it should be.

Though, I have to say, I'm not overly enthusiastic about YouTube's new player.  It automatically decides what your system can handle and will only give you video options at a certain resolution with HTML5. (not the case with Flash)  I was intentionally testing HD playback on my laptop yesterday for a reply in another thread, and I wanted to see how well it did on actual HD, not whatever they thought it would run. (I knew it would play like crap, I just wanted to see how bad it would be)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on August 12, 2015, 08:33:48 pm
Has anyone else noticed the new Firefox 40 defaults to HTML5 on sites like Youtube, even where flashplayer is installed.

This is a MUCH better way of pushing flash towards extinction than simply disabling flash by default.

Hello PCNetSpec,

How were you able to determine this?  I don't see HTML5 in Page Info, or I don't know where to look to find it.

perknh
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: PCNetSpec on August 13, 2015, 05:40:02 am
Right-click on the playing video .. you'll see an "About the HTML5 Player" option (along with other options)
Title: Re: Having issues with Flash in Firefox?
Post by: perknh on August 13, 2015, 06:05:28 am
Right-click on the playing video .. you'll see an "About the HTML5 Player" option (along with other options

Ah, I see!  ;) 

Thank you.