Peppermint OS

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 02:44:49 am

Title: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 02:44:49 am
Over the last few weeks I've started to receive email marketing flyers where some of the online retailers are advertising 3 laptops that result from HP's foray into Linux.

But now Ebuyer (probably the biggest UK online tech retailer) are now making a FEATURE out of them
http://www.ebuyer.com/ubuntu

Add that to Dell no longer hiding their Ubuntu PC's on a page you'd only ever find if you were actively searching for it and things are looking up.

It seems Wn8 did make manufacturers and retailers look elsewhere, it just took a while for it to filter through (probably whilst they still had Win7 PC's they could sell) .. problem is it took *so* long it's liable to get drowned out in the Win10 push .. let's hope not.

I'm not sure Ubuntu is the smart choice here though, people didn't like Win8 because of its UI so why offer a replacement that also has a weird UI .. wouldn't Mint or even Peppermint have been a smart choice ? .. then you could make a point of it NOT being Win8 like.
I'm pretty sure if you stood a Win8 PC (Metro UI) next to a Mint/Peppermint PC (normal menu bottom left) people would have gravitated towards the Mint/Peppermint layout .. this doesn't apply to Unity which is equally alien.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: AndyInMokum on June 13, 2015, 03:11:09 am
Yup, Peppermint Six would have been the ideal choice.  Failing that, Linux Mint Cinnamon or MATE.  Both of these distros have a familiarity that Windows refugees will appreciate.  Ubuntu's Unity desktop is too heavy to be a prime representative of the Linux computer experience.  The Unity user interface is too alien for the cynical nOOb coming from Windows.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 03:34:05 am
Yep, Ubuntu with Unity is a bit of a weird choice .. specially when you consider these PC's ARE an OEM reaction to Win8  :-\

Maybe it's as much a "hey Microsoft there are other options if you don't listen to us" as a "hey customers, here's a viable alternative".

Then again it may just be that the HP bigwigs don't understand Linux and think Linux = Ubuntu
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 03:48:59 am
Hello Gentlemen,

I'd like to see something like this in the United States.  Unity is heavier for sure, and call me a cynical blankety blank if you want, but what is ebuyer.com still doing working with Ubuntu 12.04 --getting rid of old stock while aware of the lack of appeal of Windows 8 also?*

Still, if they move out quickly, might ebuyer see the light and keep asking for these, and other devices with GNU/Linux installed?  Peppermint 5 or 6 would help would help that 4 GB laptop move right along.

Hope springs eternal**. ;)

perknh

*I'm unaware of this company.  Maybe getting rid of old stock is what it does --sort of like our eBay over here.

** It's tough to compete with Chromebooks.  Some boot up in 7 seconds, and you never have to update a darn things.  But, currently they sure have weaknesses too. (Notice how I cowed away from one with my last purchase.)  They are tough to boot from a flash drive.  (Supposedly one can do so it you learn some trick.)  And adding Ubuntu is a royal pain, and Skype, and getting Skype to work with Ubuntu is a real PITA, or pity.  Chromebooks have their limitations -- that's for sure. 

And this opinion is coming from a non-power user at that!
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 03:59:08 am
Ebuyer don't put the OS on .. they're purely an online retailer .. probably akin to your newegg (?)

It's HP that are doing the PC's:
http://www8.hp.com/uk/en/products/laptops/product-detail.html?oid=6732470#!tab=models
so it's probably them that chose 12.04

I was drawing attention to the fact that not only are the OEM's now doing Linux boxes, but the retailers seem to be putting a little effort into the push too (hence the FEATURE page, as opposed to the normal tiny mention in the regular listings)

Maybe there's a possibility Ebuyer bought some old stock from HP .. or Maybe P only do em with 12.04 .. who knows, as the HP site doesn't mention it

One other thing about the HP site .. doesn't it p*ss you off when they actually charge MORE for the privilege of having a free OS ::)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 04:11:33 am
One other thing about the HP site .. doesn't it p*ss you off when they actually charge MORE for the privilege of having a free OS ::)

Yes, I've noticed that for sometime now, and it infuriates me!  >:(
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 04:14:36 am
I'm a little confused about the Ubuntu version here anyway....

It "SAYS" Ubuntu 12.04

But ALL the images are showing the 14.04 Wallpaper  :-\

Typo maybe ?
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 04:21:56 am
Maybe they pulled up some old write up, and just ran it --not knowing about Ubuntu's release schedule.  I bet they are 14.04s!  :)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 04:25:55 am
Sounds about right to me .. bit worrying though  ::)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: emegra on June 13, 2015, 08:42:05 am
Don't you think it's more to do with the company behind the desktop than the desktop itself

whether we like it or not Ubuntu is the flagship Linux distribution and Unity is their flagship desktop, Ubuntu is a brand and we live in a brand-centric world that's just how it is

by choosing Ubuntu they'll have the backing of a big company whose name is becoming ever well known and who I've no doubt will bend over backwards to make sure these laptops are successful

I don't think it's all about the best operating system for the job it's about brand awareness and the important thing to me is that Ubuntu is a brand people are slowly becoming aware of

and in time people will become aware that there is more to ubuntu than unity

Yes i agree these laptops would be better running Peppermint but the fact there running Linux is a giant leap for mankind


Graeme
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 09:22:46 am
So Mint isn't well known ?

It'll make no difference how big the name is if people take one look at it and think "if the UI is as stupid as the one I want to get away from, what's the point".

You don't think HP are doing this because they suddenly like Linux .. they're doing it because they're p*ssed off with Microsoft .. I just think Mint would sell better to Win8 refugees, who IMHO are the target market.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 09:29:05 am
Don't you think it's more to do with the company behind the desktop than the desktop itself

whether we like it or not Ubuntu is the flagship Linux distribution and Unity is their flagship desktop, Ubuntu is a brand and we live in a brand-centric world that's just how it is

Yes, I do believe this.  I actually discovered Linux through stumbling upon Peppermint's website.  And, I went months (yes, months!) reading over and over Peppermint's claims --that it was free, supported, and was virus free...etc.  And, although I wanted all of this to be true, I was very, very skeptical with the claims being that were being made.  After having using Windows for a while, these claim are all very hard for a person to believe. 

So, when I did take the leap to Linux, I did so by purchasing a flash drive from OSDisc.com --which had Ubuntu 12.04 installed.  And, there, I noticed there was no Peppermint OS for sale!  :-\  I didn't know what was think about this, so I started with Ubuntu.  After this, I learned how to install Peppermint 3 on a flash drive by myself, and after this I learned how to check MD5 sums with a check sum tool --still my favorite way of checking them.

Now most people say that Linux Mint is overtaking Ubuntu.  But where would LInux Mint, or even us for that matter, be without Ubuntu? 

I have to agree with emegra here.  For the average person who has heard about Linux --Ubuntu is the first name that comes to mind.  And, although, I'm deeply empathetic to my friends here who have personally  experienced the the painful history behind Ubuntu's Unity desktop,  Ubuntu Unity, in all honesty, really is a snap to use.

Although Peppermint, for the average user would be a better overall experience , Ubuntu Unity is not a bad OS on which to begin for a Linux newbie.

P.S.

I was writing when PCNetSpec posted.  I will admit Linux Mint, Cinnamon edition, is the most like Windows 7 of any Linux distribution I have ever seen --but since I removed Window 7 from our two computers here, you probably can guess that we're not too crazy about Windows 7 in this house.

Would Linux Mint be a better Linux intro distribution for people coming from Windows 7?  I have to say, "Yes!"  Is it better known than the word Ubuntu?  I still don't think so.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: AndyInMokum on June 13, 2015, 09:42:55 am
So Mint isn't well known ?

It'll make no difference how big the name is if people take one look at it and think "if the UI is as stupid as the one I want to get away from, what's the point".

You don't think HP are doing this because they suddenly like Linux .. they're doing it because they're p*ssed off with Microsoft .. I just think Mint would sell better to Win8 refugees, who IMHO are the target market.
I agree with you.  If HP had to use Ubuntu.  They could easily have used Xubuntu, Lubuntu or the MATE spin, (I'll leave Kubuntu out of the equation) with much better effect.  Instead they're going to foist the goony googoo crap that's Unity on first time users.  Most of the nOObs are going to tar all of Linux with that first impression.  I personally think using Ubuntu with Unity for their flagship Linux computers, is a small shuffle forward and two large hops backwards  :(!!
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: rjm65 on June 13, 2015, 09:43:23 am



I have to agree with emegra here.  For the average person who has heard about Linux --Ubuntu is the first name that comes to mind.  And, although, I'm deeply empathetic to my friends here who have personally  experienced the the painful history behind Ubuntu's Unity desktop,  Ubuntu Unity, in all honesty, really is a snap to use.

Although Peppermint, for the average user would be a better overall experience , Ubuntu Unity is not a bad OS on which to begin for a Linux newbie.

I have to disagree here, Unity is the wrong choice if you plan on grabbing windows users... 
Unity may be a snap for you to use but as soon as Unity came out most of ubuntu users went to other distros to escape unity!
Now that windows has seen the light, if you notice in windows 10 the task bar and start menu have returned again, so now it is should i go with windows 10 which is kinda sorta like the windows xp vista and windows 7 I am used too, or should I try this linux with unity desktop that looks like the failed windows 8 which nobody likes?
what do you think most windows users are going to do given that choice?
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 13, 2015, 09:49:04 am
Hm, I wonder how much shipping to the US is.  ;)

I'd like to see something like this in the United States.

The problem with that being, when US retailers have tried to offer computers with Linux, somebody from M$ has shown up and threatened them.  (true story, you can do a web search to verify this)  I guess they don't have that kind of pull over in the UK, probably because M$ is a US company.  I don't know how they have that kind of power in the US with its antitrust laws, but somehow they do.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 09:52:54 am
Quote
But where would LInux Mint, or even us for that matter, be without Ubuntu? 

Exactly where we are now.....

Linux != Ubuntu ;)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: emegra on June 13, 2015, 09:54:06 am
Quote
So Mint isn't well known ?

Well known in the Linux world maybe but that's not the target is it ? at this point in time I don't think they could sell these things to Linux users but just ask yourself where would be Mint be without Ububtu and where would Ubuntu be without Mint (unless you're suggesting Mint Debian edition


Quote
It'll make no difference how big the name is if people take one look at it and think "if the UI is as stupid as the one I want to get away from, what's the point".

Does the Ui really have to work like Win98 or XP to be popular millions of people are turning to smartphones to do their computing these days and they have an entirely different UI from a traditional PC without an issue

Quote
You don't think HP are doing this because they suddenly like Linux

of course i don't but there has to be some other reason and I'll admit I don't know what it is but I'd put money it's not because they don't like Win 8 Ui

Quote
I just think Mint would sell better to Win8 refugees, who IMHO are the target market.
You're probably right but they might be looking into the future and the convergence Unity offers with the Ubuntu phone


Graeme



Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 09:54:18 am
Hi AndyInMokum and rjm65,

My understanding is that Ubuntu Unity is attempting imitate Apple, perhaps trying to draw in the Apple crowd --that is has a Mac-like, or Apple-like, interface.  Now keep in mind, I've never owned an Apple computer, but I've heard there are similarities between Ubuntu's Unity DE, and at least one of Apple's DEs.  (I don't know how many DEs Apple has.)

This is all from reading.  I have no real-life experience to back up what I am saying here.  And I would think it would be a dumb thing to go after Apple niche market anyway, but maybe I'm wrong about this too.*  Who knows?  I just can't see the Apple folks migrating over to Linux.  These people like to pay big bucks and then flaunt their stuff!  ;D

perknh

*Strangely enough, Chromebooks are doing a good job of taking on the MacBook Air.  One of Samsung's Chromebooks favors the MacBook Air a great deal.

Example:

http://www.amirkurtovic.com/blog/can-the-samsung-chromebook-compare-to-the-macbook-air-it-depends/ (http://www.amirkurtovic.com/blog/can-the-samsung-chromebook-compare-to-the-macbook-air-it-depends/)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 09:59:38 am
Quote
but just ask yourself where would be Mint be without Ububtu and where would Ubuntu be without Mint (unless you're suggesting Mint Debian edition

See my last response

do you think all the people (and their work) who contribute to Ubuntu would not exist if Ubuntu didn't ?

Of course they would .. they'd just be doing it elsewhere.

Quote
Well known in the Linux world maybe but that's not the target is it ?

So Ubuntu *IS* well known in the Windows world ? .. I guess I was wrong then and ebuyer have no need for the feature page ;)

In truth NEITHER are known to Joe Average until they go-a-lookin, or it's stuck under their nose by someone like Ebuyer/HP/Dell .. and they could have chosen ANY distro to promote.

Quote
Does the Ui really have to work like Win98 or XP to be popular

Apparently YES .. see the Win8 sales figures  :o and look at M$ backpeddling.

Quote
they might be looking into the future and the convergence Unity offers with the Ubuntu phone

If Win8 has proven anything it's that neither users or retailers give a flying **** about convergence .. it's purely a dev driven dream.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 13, 2015, 10:15:28 am
Isn't it funny how Ubuntu used to be the best Linux OS, or at least the most user friendly one, but they make a few bad decisions here and there and it's become the scourge of the Linux community?   I think it's funny anyway.  Of course, that doesn't stop plenty of enterprising Linux developers from using its base to create other distributions.  ;)

No matter how bad their base distribution gets, Ubuntu still holds a special place in my heart because Ubuntu 9.10 was my first Linux crush.  It was the one that got me thinking I could ditch Windows entirely and switch to something like that.  And, even though I don't run Ubuntu anymore, I almost exclusively run Linux based off of it.  I've tried the .rpm side, but I can never get as comfortable with the Red Hat commands as I can with the Debian .deb commands, especially the ones used in the more user friendly Ubuntu derivatives.

Though, having said that, if I got one of these computers, I would remove Ubuntu and put Peppermint on it.  ;)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: emegra on June 13, 2015, 10:21:57 am
Quote
do you think all the people (and their work) who contribute to Ubuntu would not exist if Ubuntu didn't ?

Of course they would .. they'd just be doing it elsewhere.

No they'd be doing it everywhere a little bit here and a little bit there Cannonical has galvanised the Linux desktop into something or a brand that  joe public can relate to and begin to trust, that's my point the vast majority look at the brand before the product how do you think Apple get away with selling the junk they do at the prices they sell them at, it's because some people don't care what the product is so long as it bears the right logo

Look I'm not a Unity/Ubuntu/Cannonical fan in fact my first foray into Linux was Ubuntu and I loved it but when they switched to Unity i hated it so much I  almost went back to Windows but was rescued by Mint but let's be fair Unity has improved since then and it's still far better than Win/Metro



Graeme
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 13, 2015, 10:23:58 am
Look I'm not a Unity/Ubuntu/Cannonical fan in fact my first foray into Linux was Ubuntu and I loved it but when they switched to Unity i hated it so much I  almost went back to Windows but was rescued by Mint but let's be fair Unity has improved since then and it's still far better than Win/Metro

Yeah, Unity was a killer for a lot of people.  Fortunately, my uncle had already told me about Mint, so I'd been using that and I'd already found Peppermint by the time they switched to Unity as their main interface.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 10:31:11 am
Is this only me, or am I right in concluding that Linux Mint Cinnamon edition is Linux' improved take on Windows 7?  The two OSes appear quite similar on the surface.  I don't think this all came about accidentally .
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: rjm65 on June 13, 2015, 10:44:30 am
Is this only me, or am I right in concluding that Linux Mint Cinnamon edition is Linux' improved take on Windows 7?  The two OSes appear quite similar on the surface.  I don't think this all come about accidentally . :-\
When Unity came to be I found Mint like everyone else, and when i came across a computer that would not run mint the mint forum told me to try peppermint antix and puppy, well antix worked on that particular machine it had a funky video card that pepermint 4 would not even start up, then i found peppermint 3 and that worked on it as well...  sorry for the long wind but what I was trying to say was not being able to run XP anymore on certain machines made me gravitate toward linux, and when ubuntu failed me switching to unity which 99% of said machines did not have enough power to even run it, I was forced to go towards lighter versions...  even if that was not the case, I still hated unity and could not bring myself to install it for others because I knew i would be getting phone calls daily how do i do this and that, and I just went with LXDE and peppermint for people cause it was the easiest for xp users to grasp and comprehend with a few minutes of showing them where things were and what they were named... 
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 11:11:19 am
I have plans to install Peppermint 6 on an old XP computer next Tuesday.  Knock on wood, but the owner of the this old XP is a Chrome user --and only Chrome.  If I don't have to downgrade anything, I'm going to bring her right over to Peppermint and to Chromium.

I believe her computer is an HP --but a desktop.  But we all share the same belief here; be they laptops or desktops, with rare exception, Peppermint belongs on every one of them!  I don't think this woman will have difficulty going from Windows XP to Peppermint 6 either, and I believe her computer will be a lot happier with a Peppermint 6 conversion too.  :)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 13, 2015, 11:16:22 am
Chromium is essentially the same browser as Chrome, just without the Google branding and other enhancements, such as the flash plugin.  However, they act and "think" the same.  Though, if that person doesn't want to use Chromium, Chrome is a simple download away.  You can get 32 or 64 bit .deb or .rpm packages easily on their download page.  Plus, installing it automatically adds the repository for updates.  :)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 11:27:05 am
Launchpad - now there's the main reason others base on Ubuntu .. you've gotta give em that one :)

But Linux would be here with or without them .. and it's impossible to say if they've advanced Linux or held it back.

All you can really do is say it like it is in the moment .. Ubuntu certainly used to be a unifying force in Linux, they're now more and more viewed as the  disruptive one.

But let's be realistic . Linux != Ubuntu .. Linux would still have the same amount of people working on it if Ubuntu had never existed .. and if they disappeared tomorrow, sure it'd cause ripples (big ones) but Linux would adjust quickly, that's what it does best.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 11:30:14 am
Hi scifidude79,

I've taken PCNetSpec's word to heart, and with the safe exception of wallpapers, I try very much to do everything from our repositories, or the command line.

Now, I confess,  I don't really know what a deb file is, but I believe I get a warning whenever I go to download one.  Now, I'm pretty sure that in google.com I'm in a very safe download environment.  And the thing I like about Google is that it always has up-to-date flash.

Now his woman --a senior citizen, and owner of this old XP computer-- is a confirmed Chromeiac.   And I wan't to make things as user-friendly, and comfortable for her, as possible.  I have wondered, in this particular case, which would be the better way for me to go --Chromium or Chrome.  :-\

Thank you,

perknh

@PCNetSpec

Quote
Quote from: PCNetSpec on Today at 02:27:05 PM
But let's be realistic . Linux != Ubuntu .. Linux would still have the same amount of people working on it if Ubuntu had never existed .. and if they disappeared tomorrow, sure it'd cause ripples (big ones) but Linux would adjust quickly, that's what it does best.

Graveyards are full of indefensible men.  Might the bowels of cyberspace one day be full of indispensable Linux distributions?

We all know that, one day, there will be a special place in Hell for Windows.  It will spend eternity surrounded by computers, tablets, smartphones, etc. that will all be running Linux OS! ;D
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 11:36:04 am
Quote
in this particular case, which would be the better way for me to go --Chromium or Chrome.

In nearly every case CHROME :)

We only use Chromium out of the box for licensing reasons

just be sure to download the .deb package directly from the Google website.
https://www.google.com/chrome/#eula

be sure to get the .deb version for your achitecture .. then double-click the downoadeed fle to install.

it will then be kept up to date automagically
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 11:38:43 am
Quote
in this particular case, which would be the better way for me to go --Chromium or Chrome.

In nearly every case CHROME :)

We only use Chromium out of the box for licensing reasons

just be sure to download the .deb package directly from the Google website.
https://www.google.com/chrome/#eula

be sure to get the .deb version for your achitecture .. then double-click the downoadeed fle to install.

it will then be kept up to date automagically

Really, wow!  Will do!  ;)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 11:45:38 am
Quote
Might the bowels of cyberspace one day be full of indispensable Linux distributions?

Once upon a time people would have said that about Mandrake/Mandriva ;) .. they were considered one of the heavyweights a while back (with spinoff/forked distros such as PCLinuxOS), now nobody bats an eyelid as they quietly die  :-X

Sh*t happens .. the Linux world adapts :)

If Ubuntu died, sure for a short while there'd be a vacuum .. but we all know what nature thinks of those ;)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 13, 2015, 12:01:52 pm
I use Chrome for the up to date flash plugin.  I'm at heart still a Firefox user.  But, these things happen.  Since Adobe is a *word deleted for the good of the community*, and won't release ANYTHING for Linux anymore, we're left with either an incredibly old flash plugin or running Chrome.  So, I run Chrome.  Though, if more sites would stop using flash and just let that horribly outdated technology die, we'd be better off.

Mandrake, or by then Mandriva, was my second choice after Ubuntu when I started using Linux.  However, they were having issues even then, so I didn't use it very long.  I think one thing that helped the community cope with the "death" of Mandriva is that it was a long, slow death.  At the end, it seemed more like a mercy that it finally died.  Besides, the project's spirit lives on in PCLinuxOS and Mageia.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 12:11:29 pm
+1 what scifidude79 says.

Except I'm still a Firefox user .. and flash still works equally well in Firefox (DRM aside)

If I understand things properly, Google licence flashplayer for redistribution from Adobe and have an agreement to modify it as long as they include the adobe licence and EULA in the Chrome one, they then turn it into a sandboxed PPAPI plugin for Chrome and rename it Pepperflash .. but under the skin it's still adobe's fllashplayer.

Adobe aren't doing ANY new version of flashplayer for Linux .. but they're still security patching version 11 which is why it gets updated in the repos every now and again.
So how I understand it is Chrome is still using version 11 too .. even though it appears to get incrementally reversioned by their naming scheme, but that's all it is, a name.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 13, 2015, 12:16:36 pm
Well, maybe I will just go back to Firefox then.  I love Firefox.  I hated it during the FUBAR days (4-5) but I came back to it after that fiasco.

Adobe is on my **** list with a vengeance.  They used to release stuff for Linux, but stopped for no apparent reason.  They don't even offer .deb or .rpm downloads of their crappy .pdf reader anymore.  Oh well, I like Evince better anyway, no fluff.  Plus, they don't even offer regular versions of their stupid graphics software anymore, you have to buy a subscription to it.  (not that I used their stuff anyway, I just hate stuff like that)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 12:20:34 pm
Quote from: scifidude79
Adobe is on my **** list with a vengeance

Like I said .. what scifidude79 said :)

BTW, Master PDF Editor is MUCH quicker for PDF reading than evince, and can edit them too .. I'd have included it in Peppermint 6 except it's close source (but free) ;)
http://code-industry.net/free-pdf-editor.php

As I said, closed source so a bit of a leap of faith .. that said, it's quite well known and  I've never heard of any problems, and I've monitored the apps (and PC's') behaviour and spotted nothing weird.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 12:20:53 pm
If Ubuntu died, sure for a short while there'd be a vacuum .. but we all know what nature thinks of those

I bet we'd move over to Fedora is that ever happened --heaven forbid!
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 12:27:38 pm
Yep, I made a phone call, and you're right .. heaven forbids.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 12:33:35 pm
Yep, I made a phone call, and you're right .. heaven forbids.

With connections like that, let it be known:   We're all glad you're on our side, PCNetSpec!  :)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 13, 2015, 12:35:55 pm
Quote from: scifidude79
Adobe is on my **** list with a vengeance

Like I said .. what scifidude79 said :)

BTW, Master PDF Editor is MUCH quicker for PDF reading than evince, and can edit them too .. I'd have included it in Peppermint 6 except it's close source (but free) ;)
http://code-industry.net/free-pdf-editor.php

As I said, closed source so a bit of a leap of faith .. that said, it's quite well known and  I've never heard of any problems, and I've monitored the apps (and PC's') behaviour and spotted nothing weird.

Sweet, I'll check it out.  Thanks.  I like Evince, but my one comic collection that I have on DVD-Rom really hangs on it.  Sometimes, I have to wait a few seconds for a page to load, which really sucks.  I was using Foxit in Windows, but their Linux version is incredibly old.  (another company that obviously stopped releasing for Linux)  Closed source software doesn't bother me, as long as it works.  ;)

EDIT:  And it doesn't work.  My comic collection uses .pdf files linked together on the disc to open the various comics, but Master PDF Editor does't appear to be capable of opening links within .pdf files unless they're web links.  :(

I wish Okular didn't come with so many dependencies.  You practically have to install the entire KDE desktop to use it.  It handles my comic collection beautifully.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: VinDSL on June 13, 2015, 12:45:05 pm
I'm not sure Ubuntu is the smart choice here[...] people didn't like Win8 because of its UI so why offer a replacement that also has a weird UI[...]

IMO, the biggest mistake in winders 8 was -- Microsoft mixed the weird 'metro' UI with the standard UI, e.g. it wasn't an either/or proposition - user selectable @ login.   That decision made winders 8 'totally weird'.

Unity is just kinda weird, and getting less weird, as time goes on.

One of the nicest things about Ubuntu et. al. is they don't mix n' match UIs - that's what we do.  And, we do it right!   :D

As you know, I like breakage.  Ubuntu dev branches are GREAT for this weird fetish - and, it gives me a chance to see which direction the Canonical devs are taking their OS.  So, there is an ancillary benefit to be had, for the taking, other than just satisfying masochistic tendencies.

Personally, I don't like or dislike the Unity UI.  I'm neutral to it, but find it LESS irritating than winders 7, and infinitely preferable to winders 8.  So, to that means, I'm not so sure it wasn't the right UI choice for weening dissatisfied winders 8 client/users off of their dependency.

That said, I run the Gnome-Shell UI when testing Ubuntu, preferably GS Staging (when it's available).  To my way of thinking, the GS3 UI (in comparison to Unity) is the functional equivalent of Peppermint (vs. Lubuntu/Mint), i.e. a lighter, stripped-down version of Unity, e.g. GS doesn't get in your way, in the same way(s) Unity does.

Anyway, just thinking out loud, for the sake of discussion...   8)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 01:14:16 pm
I used GS for some considerable time (in an "it's better than Unity" fashion) and even sang its virtues by comparison .. but eventually (once the novelty wore off) I had to come to the conclusion that these so called "task oriented UI's" just continually get in the way of doing what I want to do.

2 or 3 clicks became 10 and some typing and searching, and going through results...

Simply put I think the UI layout reached it's pinnacle with what's commonly known as the win95 --> Win7 object oriented layout. Sure Unity and GS have some nice new features, but IMHO they'd have been better applied to the oldschool layout.

Just an opinion though, no more valid than anyone else's .. Aww who am I kiddin, I'm right Unity/GS fans are wrong :)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 01:39:36 pm
Just an opinion though, no more valid than anyone else's .. Aww who am I kiddin, I'm right Unity/GS fans are wrong :)

And your thoughts on Xfce, or Xubuntu itself?  Xfce is the default DE for a lot of Linux distributions --and it's not Unity or GNOME!

Thinking about it, I've don't recall you ever saying much about Xfce one way or another. :-\
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 13, 2015, 02:13:53 pm
To tell the truth perknh I've never given Xfce a thorough enough testing over an extended period so it'd be wrong for me to comment one way or the other

I've played with it, but I always end up back at LXDE .. they're similar in layout (which is good), it has some components I like (obviously .. we borrow some) and some I don't, but I've never really dug into the way it all comes together as a whole or how modular it is (or not) and whether it can easily be bent to my will

IIRC I was initially put off by their panel and thunar .. but I never stuck around long enough to figure out how easily these could be modified/replaced so it'd be wrong if I said they were a "problem" as such.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: AndyInMokum on June 13, 2015, 05:46:36 pm
Quote
in this particular case, which would be the better way for me to go --Chromium or Chrome.

In nearly every case CHROME :)

We only use Chromium out of the box for licensing reasons

just be sure to download the .deb package directly from the Google website.
https://www.google.com/chrome/#eula

be sure to get the .deb version for your achitecture .. then double-click the downoadeed fle to install.

it will then be kept up to date automagically

Really, wow!  Will do!  ;)

After you've installed Google Chrome.  I highly recommend this little tip for transferring the existing default Chromium Browser SSBs over to Google Chrome.  It will save a whole bunch of confusion in the future.  Checkout PCNetSpec's instructions: Peppermint 5 - Changing ALL your SSB's to open in Chrome instead of Chromium (http://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php/topic,967.0.html).  Good luck and keep spreading the word  ;)!!
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 13, 2015, 10:30:44 pm
Thank you AndyInMokum and PCNetSpec,

Now I did download Chrome because it has been quite a while for me since I've used Chrome.  I did notice that for more than one user Chromium works better than Chrome.  I say this because Chromium places an icon in the top left corner of the browser, where Chrome puts one name in the top right corner.  This sounds like nothing, I know, but it's tough to change the name you have in Chrome if is it's not the name you go by in your house.  You have to go by Chrome's default name for you, then add another person, then delete yourself, then add yourself back through the other person account to put the nickname you use in your house.  It's a bit of pain.  Also, in Chrome, in Show advance settings > Content settings..., well, there's more Google stuff residing there than in Chromium, and I figure it's probably nosy, unnecessary stuff if it's Chrome!  ::)

But, on the plus side for Google Chrome, the browser is a smidgen ahead, numerically, of Chromium browser.  And as for Flash, I suspect Chrome's Flash is better than Chromium's, but I'm not certain if this is really so.  Also, for one user, the icon representing a person doesn't exist --so the above icon stuff doesn't really matter.  You need to have at least two people to start seeing the icons in the top left corner--but the pictures can be fun and cool.  :)

What really is the significant difference between Chromium and Chrome?  If you disregard the above mentioned differences of the two browsers that I have noticed, what extra bang for the buck does Chrome have over Chromium?  I always used to download Chrome because Chrome used to work better than Chromium , but I'm not noticing much of difference these days in regards to performance.  In fact, Chrome took a long time booting up for me today --probably because it was shocked that I had installed it!  :o  Still, I could be missing something important here regarding the two browsers; I just don't know what it is.  :-\

Thank you both. 

perknh
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: AndyInMokum on June 13, 2015, 11:01:16 pm
Quote
...Still, I could be missing something important here regarding the two browsers; I just don't know what it is.  :-\

Thank you both. 

perknh

If you ever want to stream Netflix natively, you need Google Chrome.  I gave up on the Chromium Browser about a year ago.  It was always giving me problems with Flash.  This is something I've never experienced with Google Chrome.  It's easy enough to tighten up the privacy on both browsers.  My only gripe with Google Chrome and for that matter, the Chromium Browser too, is the memory footprint.  It's like a sasquatch made it  :o.  As part of my installation process.  I always ditch the Chromium Browser in favour of Google Chrome.  It feels more like a finished product and it just works better for me  ;).
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 14, 2015, 12:35:39 am
I noticed Chrome's moronic bookmark thing that was trying to be like Opera is back to how it was before.  It's nice to know they take user complaints seriously. (Mozilla and Microsoft could learn from that :P) I don't know who besides me complained about that, but there must have been plenty for them to revert it.

Of course, I only noticed this because I was backing up my bookmarks so that I could transfer them back to Firefox, which is what I'm running now.  Try as I might, I just don't like Chrome as well as Firefox.  Heck, I've been running Firefox since version 1.  Prior to that, I ran the original Mozilla browser.  I'm also trying an experiment to see how long I can go without Adobe Flash installed.  So far, only one site has complained about me not having it, and it's not something I frequent.  That's a far cry from a few years ago, when every other site you visited whined if you didn't have a flash plugin.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: AndyInMokum on June 14, 2015, 12:56:47 am
Me, I complained bitterly about it within minutes of seeing it.  I told 'em in no uncertain terms what I thought of that experiment.  Now it's back to the way it was, I'm a much happier camper  ;)!
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 14, 2015, 05:09:32 am
@ scifidude

are you SURE you don't have flashplayer installed ? .. I can't remember if we ever removed that from when Chromium used to require it ?
Code: [Select]
dpkg -l | grep flash
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 14, 2015, 06:09:26 am
If you ever want to stream Netflix natively, you need Google Chrome.  I gave up on the Chromium Browser about a year ago.  It was always giving me problems with Flash.  This is something I've never experienced with Google Chrome.  It's easy enough to tighten up the privacy on both browsers.  My only gripe with Google Chrome and for that matter, the Chromium Browser too, is the memory footprint.  It's like a sasquatch made it  :o.  As part of my installation process.  I always ditch the Chromium Browser in favour of Google Chrome.  It feels more like a finished product and it just works better for me  ;).

Hello, and thank you, AndyInMokum,

I did not know that about Netfix.  I did know that Flash can sometimes be a problem.  And, yes, there is a way to block some of those unnecessary Google cookies.  I will give this woman, the owner of this old HP computer, an explanation of both browsers --both the pluses and the minuses of using either browser.  That's the fair thing to do, since Peppermint is equipped to handle both. 

Knock on wood for me that this will work.  I believe this computer has some age on it.  I'm hoping Google will play nice.  I've seen what can happen when Google doesn't; hence, I'm always a little nervous working with Google on an old computer. 

In Chinese medicine some would say, if Google were a patient, that Google has a tendency towards Shen disturbances, or affective disorders.  :(

Thanks so much,

perknh
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: AndyInMokum on June 14, 2015, 06:22:32 am
Hi perkhn, I always go into Settings > + Show advanced settings > System and uncheck/deselect the two boxes.  Everything then runs a lot smoother on older machines  ;).
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: perknh on June 14, 2015, 07:11:07 am
Thanks AndyInMokum,

I'm taking it you don't think, that on an older computer, hardware acceleration would be available.

I have always been in the habit of keeping that box checked, but from what I'm gathering here, you think this is putting needless stress on the system of an older computer for little or no gain.

I had never thought about it that way before --of course, our computers here are only a few years old in this house --but not the one I'll be working on Tuesday.  This one will be a legacy computer, I'm sure!

Thanks of tip!  ;)

perknh
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: AndyInMokum on June 14, 2015, 07:36:52 am
I find having it on, causes the graphic to go out of wack on older machines.  It causes tearing, ghost images and just general weirdness.  Turn it off and everything works fine and considerably quicker  ;).
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 14, 2015, 10:02:02 am
@ scifidude

are you SURE you don't have flashplayer installed ? .. I can't remember if we ever removed that from when Chromium used to require it ?
Code: [Select]
dpkg -l | grep flash

Only the one in Chrome, which Firefox can't use.  As for the one that's installed by default, I removed that when I installed Chrome because it would be redundant.  Trust me, one site told me in no uncertain terms that I didn't have a flash plugin installed when I tried playing a video.  Oddly enough, YouTube played fine, though.  Maybe it uses a different protocol now.

But, I can run that command on the desktop later to be sure, I'm on my laptop right now because I'm down stairs watching racing in the family room.  And, since Firefox doesn't run well on this thing, (I don't know why) I'm running Chrome.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 14, 2015, 11:28:54 am
This is on my laptop:

(https://evilgenius180.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/2015-06-14-142338_660x459_scrot.png)

I'm assuming, if there was a flash plugin installed, that command would have returned something.  So, no flash.  I'm running Firefox on here now too.  The race I'm watching had a rain delay, so I got a bit bored.  ;)  I removed and purged Chrome and deleted the folders from ~/.config for Chromium and Chrome.  So, no flash and no config files.  And, still no issues with websites and no flash.  Even YouTube videos play.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 14, 2015, 12:47:09 pm
Yep you're right .. no flashplayer :)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 14, 2015, 12:58:03 pm
I did a little Googling and I found out why this is working.  A lot of sites anymore have switched to HTML5 instead of Flash, because Adobe doesn't develop the flash plugin for iPad and iPhone.  So, sites like YouTube have completely switched from flash to HTML5 to remain compatible with those devices.  So, I guess that one site I was on was just behind the times.  ;)

Though, in the interest of full disclosure, I do have an ad blocker enabled.  Without that, I may have more issues due to a lot of animated banner ads being flash driven.  Though, it's precisely because ads went from simple banners to animations and things that appear in your face that I use this, so it's not like I'm missing anything good.  ;)
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: PCNetSpec on June 15, 2015, 06:36:36 am
Concerning the images clearly showing the laptops running 14.04 yet tthe description stating 12.04 .. SK from Ebuyers Fekbook page says:-

Quote from: SK from Ebuyer via Facebook
Hi, the images are just for illustration purposes only. The description should be the correct details. SK

Googling seems to suggest he's right .. In which case you have to ask:-

Would it be acceptable to advertise PC's showing Windows 8 on the screen then selling them with Vista ? .. or unless there was a plain to see caveat that "Images are for illustration purposes only and may not reflect what's in the box" would it be considered false and misleading advertising ?

Or should the small 12.04 in the description legally be enough to override people natural predisposition to "trust their eyes". I guess it's not so important here and possibly a genuine misunderstanding/mistake, but a pet hate of mine is the recent drop in advertising standards and the obviously misleading info or even downright lies advertisers are being allowed to get away with these days.

Let me be clear here .. I am in NO WAY knocking Ebuyer here, I use them regularly and in my experience they are a great company to deal with .. I'm aware this is probably new territory for them and I've never seem them try to mislead in the past so this is AFAIK a one off and a genuine mistake where they're probaby taking the lead from elsewhere. .. this is just me bitching about modern advertising standards in a general sense and probably using a bad example .. it just happened to come up here.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: AndyInMokum on June 15, 2015, 07:55:33 am
It really makes no difference if it's an honest mistake or, a genuine effort to deceive.  False advertising is exactly what it says on the box - "False Advertising".  It's not the for the customer to accept it.  It is for the retailer to correct it.
Title: Re: Ebuyer now featuring HP's Ubuntu Laptops
Post by: scifidude79 on June 15, 2015, 09:50:34 am
I hate it when retailers have lousy pictures that don't match the product.  Usually, big companies aren't as bad about stuff like this, but you have to watch the smaller sellers on sites like Amazon.  Sometimes, they'll just grab some pics from Google Images or something, even if it doesn't exactly match their product, rather than take a picture of their actual product.  It's not only lazy, it's deceitful.  If you're selling a product, your images should match said product as they are a strong selling point.  If the laptop has Ubuntu 12.04 on it, put up images of it with 12.04 on the screen.  It can't be that hard.  All they do is take a standard product image for that laptop and put a screen shot onto the screen using photo editing software.  It can't be that hard to get a screen shot from 12.04.