Peppermint OS Community Forum

General => GNU/Linux Discussion => Topic started by: perknh on February 25, 2015, 02:17:34 pm

Title: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on February 25, 2015, 02:17:34 pm
Hello Peppermint Nation,

I just spent the last couple of days playing with Ubuntu's GNOME desktop.  And the first thing I noticed about Ubuntu's GNOME DE is that it looked, and felt, like an earlier, and rougher, version of Unity Desktop.  GNOME seems to be a winner, and perhaps even a victim of its own success -- meaning it has been adopted and modified into numerous desktop environments such as MATE, Unity, and Cinnamon which must be now collectively even more popular than GNOME itself.  (I know Fedora is big into GNOME DE.)

If what I'm saying is so; why such a dislike for Unity?*  This dislike of Unity within the Linux community seems almost visceral to me. And only a few distributions, if that, have adopted Unity as a desktop environment.

I'm not getting it.  :-\

Thank you,

perknh

* The privacy issues of Unity can turned off with a couple of clicks.  And, as for sluggishness, Unity appears to be getting faster and faster with each release.  I've been finding Unity within Utopic Unicorn to be terrific.  Unfortunately it only has several more months of support.  Also one can easily uninstall Amazon.

P.S.

Here Nixie Pixel describes the differences between Unity and Gnome 3.

Code: [Select]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZU9XzJBgVc


                                                         or     


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZU9XzJBgVc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZU9XzJBgVc)
                                             



 
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on February 25, 2015, 02:44:11 pm
Hi perknh, how's it going?  The only use I can see for the Unity DE is with touch screens and mobile devices.  I tried it with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS PPC on my old Mac G4 PowerBook.  Apart from the very evident bloat, it looked great; really eye catching.   However, to use it with a touch pad and/or mouse, it was just horrible.  For me it was like trying to use a computer while wearing boxing gloves  >:(!!
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on February 25, 2015, 03:18:17 pm
Hello AndyInMokum!

I see.  So, besides the bloat (too many programs -- some of which are unnecessary such as Amazon) is a lack of ease of use.  Now that is an interesting answer.

Since I know you're a both a MATE as well an Lxde user, I can appreciate your answer --especially since you're the one who introduced me to MATE in the first place!   :)

But what a shock I had when I first saw GNOME:  All I could think of was Unity.  I saw the foundation of Unity nearly everywhere I looked.

Thank you,

perknh
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on February 25, 2015, 03:19:13 pm
not only what Andy said, but Andy forgot to mention that it just plains sucks, it is ugly it is a resource hog, did i mention its ugly?   :P
 
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on February 25, 2015, 03:26:14 pm
Hello rjm65,

I was just going to edit my post to tell AndyInMokum how nice-looking I find Unity to be.  But somehow I get a sense that you may feel otherwise.  ;D

perknh
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on February 25, 2015, 03:40:53 pm
I actually found 12.04 LTS PPC quite attractive to look at.  Unity is just impracticable in a non-touch screen environment.  It's a resource hog for sure.  That makes it next to useless on lower resource machines.  Thankfully there is Xubuntu and Lubuntu and their derivatives for us tightwads and lovers of older coal and steam powered machines  :D!!
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on February 25, 2015, 03:46:32 pm
gee ya think? LOL  unity is the reason i left ubuntu and found mint and then peppermint...  I like mint cinnamon the best then i like mint mate second best and plain old lxde ranks 3rd in my opinion of de's...  I wouldn't use or put unity on a persons machine even if i hated them, i wouldn't subject them to unity...  When unity came out i wrote to the guy in charge of ubuntu, and i told him back then unity sucked and he lost me and everyone i know as a user because of it...  Obviously they don't care about what their users think cause they still have unity.... 
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: VinDSL on February 25, 2015, 03:55:34 pm
If what I'm saying is so; why such a dislike for Unity?*  This dislike of Unity within the Linux community seems almost visceral to me. And only a few distributions, if that, have adopted Unity as a desktop environment.

I'm not getting it.  :-\

I'll try to keep this brief...   8)

I don't dislike the Unity DE.  Matter of fact, I defended Unity for a year in the Ubu forums and on Launchpad.

I actually got a positive feedback from Mark Shuttleworth, when I was hashing it out with the boneheads on Launchpad...   :D

Spoiler (click here to view / hide)
Quote
<-----Original Message----->

From: Mark Shuttleworth [748739@bugs.launchpad.net]
Sent: 4/4/2011 9:26:01 AM
To: perfect.pecker@excite.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Bug 748739] Re: no config tool currently provided for UbuntuUnity Plugin

On 04/04/11 12:39, VinDSL wrote:
> Personally, I don't care what 'they' do, or don't do.
>
> I'm going to make Unity look however I wish. Nobody is going to stop me.
>
> Did anybody stop Mark Shuttleworth? Hell no! And, he came up with Unity.
>
> The same applies to us!
>
> Things are more exciting, when you don't have permission, right Mark?
>
> We'll just have to work at it a bit harder, just like he did, that's all... :)

Well said.

--

You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber
of the bug.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/748739

Title:
no config tool currently provided for Ubuntu Unity Plugin

Status in “unity” package in Ubuntu:
Invalid

Bug description:
Binary package hint: unity

At the moment there is no gui config tool provided for the unity plugin and possibly a few other compiz plugins
I can't see ccsm being default installed, users can't be expected to use gsettings, dconf-editor or gconf-editor
One should be in place fairly soon

ProblemType: Bug
DistroRelease: Ubuntu 11.04
Package: unity 3.8.2-0ubuntu1
ProcVersionSignature: Ubuntu 2.6.38-7.39-generic 2.6.38
Uname: Linux 2.6.38-7-generic i686
NonfreeKernelModules: nvidia
Architecture: i386
CompizPlugins: [core,bailer,detection,composite,opengl,decor,vpswitch,move,compiztoolbox,regex,imgpng,place,mousepoll,unitymtgrabhandles,gnomecompat,animation,resize,session,expo,wall,ezoom,staticswitcher,fade,scale,unityshell]
Date: Sat Apr 2 20:31:23 2011
InstallationMedia: Ubuntu 11.04 "Natty Narwhal" - Beta i386 (20110330)
ProcEnviron:
LANGUAGE=en_US:en
LANG=en_US.UTF-8
SHELL=/bin/bash
SourcePackage: unity
UpgradeStatus: No upgrade log present (probably fresh install)

To unsubscribe from this bug, go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/748739/+subscribe
.
[close]

I biggest complaint, back then, was the lack of a configuration tool for Unity.  Users wanted the ability to customize it.

I discovered early-on that I could hack the Unity DE by using Gnome-Shell as a pseudo-dev tool.  Simple pimple.

As a result of being forced to use GS to hackor Unity, I actually started liking it more than Unity.

GS is my favorite DE these days, but I don't want to hijack this thread.  That said, I like Unity just fine... when it works.   ::)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on February 25, 2015, 03:57:51 pm
Don't get me wrong.  I've used Unity and its functionality left me less than impressed.  I'm not planning to use it again.  My first taste of Linux was LMDE Cinnamon.  The Mint gang really have produced a very polished desktop.  Apparently it is getting better all the time too.  Many of the kinks and quirks I experienced have now been ironed out  ;).
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: emegra on February 25, 2015, 04:38:38 pm
Hi guys

Ubuntu was my first foray into Linux starting with the version just prior to Unity I was just getting to like Ubuntu when I was offered a distribution  upgrade which broke almost everything so I had to do a full install of the first Unity version  and I hated it so much I almost went back to Windows until I discovered Mint

My biggest gripe about Unity was global menus it just seemed messy and hard work but I'm sure it's improved much since these early days

But in Canonicals defence I think they really had to move towards a touch orientated interface in view of their long term plans for convergence with portable touch screen devices which is beginning to bear fruit with the new Ubuntu phone and to be fair I think they've done a much better job of it than Microsoft has with their Metro interface


I know some people here will likely disagree but I still believe in spite of Unity Ubuntu is the flagship Linux distribution and the only distribution moving Linux forward in the touch screen age and we should admire their tenacity for taking on the big boys and keeping Linux relevant which ultimately benefits us all



Graeme

Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on February 25, 2015, 05:41:40 pm
There are MANY reasons people dislike Unity..

The first haters disliked the fact that Ubuntu broke away from Gnome 3 shell development to create their own DE (some people always bitch at a fork), some thinking too many DEs' is a  bad thing, others just thinking Ubuntu's leaving slowed GS development.

Second group of haters disliked Unity because it was out before GS, so was the first of the "new metaphor" DE's that people could hate .. they tended to dislike GS too, but less because they'd already spent their hate on Unity (though beleive me they hated GS too, at least at first)

There's the "it's not configurable (so not very Linuxy)" and "it's too much like OS X", and "dumbed down like Windows" and "going too commercial" haters

Then there's those that hate it because it's "in vogue" to hate it (half of which probably have little experience of it) or to hate Ubuntu in general, or only hate it so they can "big up" their distro of choice, or just look for any reason to hate the perceived "leader".

Then there's the group I belong to, that simply hate the whole "new metaphor" thing, both Unity and GS .. at least Gnome 3 can easily be re-shelled like Mint have done with Cinnamon .. Unity on the other hand is kinda like Windows desktop, you get what you're given which is a real pain if you think what you're given SUX ;)

Personally I don't get people who say Windows "Metro UI" sucks, but then use Unity or GS .. they are all attempts to "unify" the mobile and desktop UI's, and they all fail miserably because it never needed unifying .. IMHO the "desktop metaphor" was pretty much perfected a long time ago and doesn't need to change to accommodate "mobile", I know Microsoft/Canonical/Gnome think otherwise but people ARE smart enough to master 2 different UI's for 2 different devices  ::)

Mark my words .. the "new metaphor" DE's will all fail in the long run .. forcing a mobile UI onto the desktop PC (as opposed to giving you an option to switch between the two .. Microsoft actually did that BETTER than Unity or GS), and bloating up mobile UI with features for desktop users is simply ridiculous.
(what's next .. a full on version of windows 10 / Ubuntu 16.04 on your router / calculator / mp3 player)

OK, rant over  >:(
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on February 25, 2015, 07:02:03 pm
AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW  Mark, Cmon keep ranting, I was enjoying the good read and then it ended, please rant some more...   LMAO...   :D
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on February 26, 2015, 05:27:57 am
I'm in the same group as PCNetSpec and AndyInMokum. I also do not like KDE: too much of a resource hog and too much flashy junk for my simple little mind.  :P

When on a computer with a keyboard plus a mouse and/or a touchpad, then I prefer something simple, configurable and light-weight such as i3 or Openbox or JWM. When using a tablet then something like Unity or the Android interface works just fine (for me).

I understand that some folks find Unity on a desktop PC the best solution -- but I don't. So I'll stick with my choices and hope that i3, Openbox, JWM and similar solutions never go away.  8)

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on February 26, 2015, 08:08:41 am
Mark, Cmon keep ranting

OK then....

Uninty / GS = A clear example of what you get when you let the same people that use marketing and boardroom "buzz words" dictate design decisions  ::)

And as Andy suggested, there's clearly something wrong when new users are saying Windows appears faster and lighter  :o
(this should NEVER be said about ANY Linux)

As for Gnome .. I understood the need for Gnome 3, the Gnome 2.x code base had become a mess of tangled patches and additions that meant every time they needed to add another patch it was nearly impossible to tell what it would break .. so a code base rewrite was in order, and why not add some stuff / make some changes in the process.
Problem was they made a hash of it .. surely a code base rewrite is intended to clean up the code so it should end up lighter right ?, wrong it ended up HEAVIER yet with LESS functionality, how the **** did they manage that ?  >:(
Since then (after a LOT of user pressure that they originally chose to ignore) some of the functionality has been added back in, but now it had to be added back by patching the code, kinda goes against the reason for the rewrite in the first place don't you think  ::)
This *should* have been an opportunity to make an excellent DE and framework even better .. an opportunity that they not only missed, but smashed with a sledge hammer then kicked the resulting dust into users faces.

Then there's the shell they decided to bung on top of it .. sucked that bad that everyone felt the need to either leave, start their own shell adding functionality to gnome-session-fallback (cinnamon), or resurrect and fork Gnome 2.x

Gnome 3 Plus Gnome Shell = an object lesson in how to go from highly praised  market leader to ridiculed bloated also ran in one quick move....

Rant over again .. probably .....
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on February 26, 2015, 09:29:02 am
OH I am not so sure the rant is over, I bet if Mark tried really hard he could rant some more...   Tee Hee..  :D
 I dunno  am I enjoying this too much? maybe, maybe not...   LOL    ;)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on February 26, 2015, 09:49:01 am
Nah, rant is definitely over .. soapbox is now vacant :)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: 10i on February 26, 2015, 01:50:56 pm
Unity is the main reason people are leaving Ubuntu, I dislike it and the Metro interface of Windows 8.

Give me choice: classic shell to bring back the start menu for Windows and LXDE for Linux.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on February 26, 2015, 06:52:20 pm
This has been an interesting conversation.  All I can tell you is that I find the entire phenomenon of Ubuntu and its various derivatives fascinating.  And, from what I can see, Ubuntu's GNOME-based Unity desktop environment is, as emegra has said, the flagship distribution within Linux.  And what makes Ubuntu's Unity DE so interesting is that it is both brilliant and flawed.

Many here have said they don't like the lack of customization options within Unity.  Those here who say this are right about that.  There isn't much one can customize in Unity.  If however one likes the way Unity is preconfigured, then the end user is all set.  My wife and I fortunately fall into this latter category.  Unity's DE is very easy to use.

I do have some issues with Unity however.  It can still be buggy.  Last night, after updating in 14.04.2 Unity, my computer froze.  I waited and waited, and then tried innumerable times to use R E I S U B -- all to no avail.  I had to do a hard shutdown, and after that I had to install Peppermint and Ubuntu back onto the two hard drives I use,  That was a pain.  But even worse than a couple of miserable updating experiences within Unity is the bloatware factor.  I happen to agree with Richard Stallman that searching within Dash, especially without knowing the trick of how to opt out of handing over your data to various commercial interests, is a form of spying on unaware users.  If anything, allowing Amazon, or whatever other interested third party, to collect your search data should be an opt-in process; or, better yet, should not be in the distribution at all.  With Richard Stallman, I agree on that particular point.  (All those third-party plugins are bloatware and resource hogs.)

I should note I have so far found Trisquel, which is another GNOME-based Ubuntu derivative, and the FSF browser that Richard Stallman uses, to be completely un-user friendly.  He would say I'm valuing convenience over privacy and freedom.  But, I would say I need a distribution that works well and values privacy and freedom.  Even Chromium browser, the last I knew, was considered unacceptable by Trisquel and the FSF.  In my opinion, that's pushing a principle a little too far -- principled to a fault!

At the end of the day, the two most user friendly Linux distributions I've ever used are Ubuntu's Unity and Peppermint OS.  In this house, we've got two Peppermint installations and one installation of Unity.  And although my wife enjoys Ubuntu's DE, she prefers and runs Peppermint on her computer.  I run both Peppermint and Unity*.  Peppermint is easy to use, customizable, and fast.  Unity is easy to use, quite intuitive, and getting faster all of the time -- despite its bloatware!   

Perhaps PCNetSpec hit the nail on the head when he mentioned Canonical's boardroom.  A little more listening to the valid concerns of Ubuntu's loyal and true users would be helpful in the development, and adoption, of Ubuntu's Unity DE.  Time will tell what direction Unity will go from here.



*When I get tired of Unity, I switch over to Ubuntu's MATE LTS. (But, right now, I'm waiting for MATE to bump up to LTS 14.04.2.  Should happen any day, I think.)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: iamesperambient on February 28, 2015, 05:57:14 pm
Hello Peppermint Nation,

I just spent the last couple of days playing with Ubuntu's GNOME desktop.  And the first thing I noticed about Ubuntu's GNOME DE is that it looked, and felt, like an earlier, and rougher, version of Unity Desktop.  GNOME seems to be a winner, and perhaps even a victim of its own success -- meaning it has been adopted and modified into numerous desktop environments such as MATE, Unity, and Cinnamon which must be now collectively even more popular than GNOME itself.  (I know Fedora is big into GNOME DE.)

If what I'm saying is so; why such a dislike for Unity?*  This dislike of Unity within the Linux community seems almost visceral to me. And only a few distributions, if that, have adopted Unity as a desktop environment.

I'm not getting it.  :-\

Thank you,

perknh

* The privacy issues of Unity can turned off with a couple of clicks.  And, as for sluggishness, Unity appears to be getting faster and faster with each release.  I've been finding Unity within Utopic Unicorn to be terrific.  Unfortunately it only has several more months of support.  Also one can easily uninstall Amazon.
 


i dont care for all the 'bloat' as was said above i also dont liek the side dock i think its just ugly in my opinion.
I prefer something much more minimalistic. i dont know each person is different but for me i just find it
a bit too much for my taste.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on February 28, 2015, 07:51:58 pm
Hi iamesperambient,

I'm not trying to sell you on Unity, but you can hide the side launcher within Unity if you want.  You go into System Settings > Personal > Appearence > Behavior > Auto-hide the Launcher > Turn from Off to On.

As for the bloat; well you can remove Amazon, from within Ubuntu's Software Manager, and you can go into Security & Privacy and turn a couple things off in Search and Files & Applications.  But, yeah, Unity is pretty well stuffed with programs and plugins.

perknh
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: iamesperambient on March 02, 2015, 11:06:54 am
i hear ya but i dont see the need. i have the LTS support of ubuntu, but no bloat with peppermint
and the customization i wanted to be able to set my desktop exactly how i want it. Its faster
cleaner, more efficient for how i use a computer. to me peppermint vs ubuntu its a no brainer
i honestly dont ever see changing distros.  but it is good to know i can remove that ugly side bar.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 02, 2015, 07:49:51 pm
Hi  iamesperambient,

Right now, I'm giving GNOME another try.  When I talk about GNOME, I want to be able to give it a fair assessment.

In case you didn't see it, I edited the very first post of this discussion.  I put a link in for you at the end of the very first post.  In that YouTube Video Nixie Pixel compares and contrasts GNOME Shell with Unity.  I put the link in code format for you as well as in a ready-to-go video format for the rest of Peppermint Nation and our guests.   You may find what Nixie Pixel says concerning GNOME and Unity interesting.

perknh
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 03, 2015, 08:23:54 am
The only way i was able to use ubuntu after they went to unity was i found a way to install the old classic gnome shell they had before unity and then logged in that way...  but as far a unity goes it just plain sucks, and I can not fathom why anyone would even like it, or attempt to like it, or force themselves to like it for that matter....   :-\
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 03, 2015, 09:32:27 am
What he said :)

The HUD is a good idea .. the rest of the UX definitely comes prefixed with an S ;)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: emegra on March 03, 2015, 04:42:01 pm
Quote
The HUD is a good idea .. the rest of the UX definitely comes prefixed with an S

Ok let me guess
Superb ?
Super Dooper ?
Snappy ?
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 03, 2015, 05:17:03 pm
Quote
The HUD is a good idea .. the rest of the UX definitely comes prefixed with an S

Ok let me guess
Superb ?
Super Dooper ?
Snappy ?
I have this feeling he wanted you to take the letters UX and add the prefix of S in front of the UX...   :D
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: VinDSL on March 03, 2015, 06:44:48 pm
The HUD is a good idea .. the rest of the UX definitely comes prefixed with an S ;)

But, wait, you forgot the best part of Unity...   :D


(http://vindsl.com/images/2015-03-03-163938_1280x1024_scrot.png)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 03, 2015, 06:49:10 pm
Quote
Ok let me guess
Superb ?
Super Dooper ?
Snappy ?

Erm, there's most definitely an adjective that starts with 'S' that springs to mind .. but it's not in your list ;)



Quote
But, wait, you forgot the best part of Unity...

Am I missing something here.....

What's compiz got to do with Unity ? .. you can get compiz including the desktop cube working in Peppermint  :-\
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: VinDSL on March 03, 2015, 06:53:50 pm
Quote
But, wait, you forgot the best part of Unity...

Am I missing something here.....

What's compiz got to do with Unity ? .. you can get compiz including the desktop cube working in Peppermint  :-\

Not at all!

The nice thing is, Peppermint will work without it...   ;)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 03, 2015, 07:00:48 pm
Ahh right gotcha .. sarcasm :)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: VinDSL on March 03, 2015, 07:07:11 pm
Ahh right gotcha .. sarcasm :)

I was thinking of another word...

HINT:  It contains the vowels A-E-I-O-U (in that order).   :)

EDIT

But that's close enough.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 03, 2015, 07:22:03 pm
OK, either you were being FACETIOUS

or

Unity = TRAGEDIOUS

Both will do for me :D
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 03, 2015, 08:50:15 pm
Where would we be without GNOME or Unity now?


Code: [Select]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_eEgD2Fl_I
or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_eEgD2Fl_I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_eEgD2Fl_I)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 04, 2015, 05:48:38 am
Quote
"but given how light Linux already is, that's overkill"

If we're talking about "desktop" Linux that was true once upon a time maybe .. now there's more need for lightweight distros than ever ::)

Quote
Where would we be without GNOME or Unity now?

If you mean Gnome 3 .. Personally I'd probably still be using Ubuntu with the smaller, lighter, more resource efficient, more customisable, and simply better laid out Gnome 2.x

but if you mean if "Gnome" had never existed .. erm, missing a lot of apps and libraries, and probably still on WIndows  :(
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 04, 2015, 06:44:06 am
"but given how light Linux already is, that's overkill"

If we're talking about "desktop" Linux that was true once upon a time maybe .. now there's more need for lightweight distros than ever ::)

Quote
Where would we be without GNOME or Unity now?

For sure, that video was wrong about the lightness of the various Ubuntus.  Running Xubuntu, MATE, Lubuntu, and, of course, Peppermint makes a huge difference on how well an old computer runs with Linux.  (Unfortunately that aura rendering feature within Chromium hasn't been so helpful on old computers.)  >:(

But as for GNOME, isn't Ubuntu's official flavor of GNOME essentially the old Ubuntu?  I'm a latecomer here, maybe I've never really experienced the original GNOME desktop, but I thought Ubuntu's GNOME flavor was a continuation of the original GNOME Ubuntu.

This is the GNOME desktop I mean:

http://ubuntugnome.org/screenshots/ (http://ubuntugnome.org/screenshots/)


Isn't this Ubuntu flavor a continuation of the original Ubuntu?

Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on March 04, 2015, 08:22:29 am
Hi perknh,


I agree with you: you discovered Ubuntu a little too late to have experienced the "original" Gnome version of Ubuntu. No, the "old ubuntu" with the original gnome that PCNetSpec mentions is not what your screen shots are showing. I do not have any screen shots to show it but maybe someone else does ...


Regards,


-- Slim

Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 04, 2015, 08:28:37 am
Hello Slim.Fatz,

I guess what I'm missing here is GNOME 1 -- something I'll never experience with Ubuntu.

Thank you,

perknh
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 04, 2015, 08:58:16 am
If my only choice was ubuntu linux with unity or windows, i would take windows every time....  :)
Oh wait I am using windows 7 on my main computer so all I run is windows, so I guess that tells you what I think of linux and unity... 
None of the distributions is good enough for me yet...  Until they can do what windows does windows will always be my OS of choice... 
All hail windows the greatest OS ever made...   :)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 04, 2015, 11:27:11 am
What your screenshots of Ubuntu-Gnome show Gnome 3 and the Gnome Shell

Gnome 2.x looked like MATE .. indeed MATE is a fork of Gnome 2.x by people who didn't like Unity and G3/GS



Here's Ubuntu 10.10 Maverick Meerkat .. the last version with Gnome 2.x and IMHO the best Ubuntu ever (as soon as you moved the minimise/maximise/close buttons back to the right) .. more configurable, WAY lighter, and with MANY more third party plugins for functionality expansion.

Minimise/maximise/close buttons had been on the right in all previous versions .. they moved to the left in 10.10, the first sign of the idiocy to come and everyone went nuts, luckily it was easy to move them back to the right (something that would later be made impossible in Unity ::) )

This release also marks the point at which Canonical/Ubuntu stopped listening to its users .. they were told the buttons were staying on the left no matter what users thought  .. Shuttleworth decreed that's were they were going to be in Unity so get used to it >:(

(click image to enlarge)

(http://i.imgur.com/AOkro9I.jpg)

Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 04, 2015, 11:58:46 am
I was an ubuntu user long before this switch in meerkat, I always thought ubuntu was the greatest, then came the changes and i went elsewhere and found mint which is my go to OS, and peppermint for the older machines.... 
But I still love and use only windows on my machine...  just can't find programs to work my equipment that is not windows based, so I am stuck with windows myself...  however all other machines in my house run linux....
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 04, 2015, 02:06:34 pm
Hello PCNetSpec & rjm65,

I think I would have liked Maverick Meerkat if I had had a chance to try it.  The Ubuntu you guys are talking about existed a year and a half before before I got involved with Precise Pangolin.  And, needless to say, I was delighted with Ubuntu after escaping from Windows.  But It sounds to me as if Ubuntu was really the People's OS at one time.

This is sad tale I'm hearing.  I understand the feelings of nearly universal rancor now.  It sounds as if the movement back to the original GNOME would be to make use of MATE -- but I get a sense something is still missing that Meerkat had.  I don't hear people saying that they've now got Ubuntu back now that they have Ubuntu MATE, but maybe that's only because MATE isn't an officially recognized flavor of Ubuntu yet. (This being said, I've never heard one ill word uttered about Ubuntu's MATE project -- not one.  Heck, at their request, I even sent MATE a tiny $2 tip, a feature I'd like to see appear in Peppermint, I might add.)

If either one of you guys has checked out MATE, I'd like to know how close is it to Ubuntu's Maverick Meerkat?  MATE is great, but the project hasn't bumped up from 14.04.1 to 14.04.2 yet -- although MATE's 15.04 Vivid Vervet is on a roll, and with the 3.19 kernel too!  ;)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 04, 2015, 02:32:03 pm
I was installing ubuntu on peoples machines two years before maverick came out the first ubuntu i was installing was hardy heron 8.04 lts...
see chart below:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 04, 2015, 02:41:19 pm
Wow!  We're talking nearly seven years.  Yes, rjm65, you've seen Ubuntu from both sides now.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 04, 2015, 02:44:46 pm
I only would install lts, i think but not sure lucid lynx was lts, and when meerkat came out i went back to installing lucid lynx, because it was such a stable piece and worked on everything i installed it on back then....   :D
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 04, 2015, 03:13:05 pm
Maverick Meerkat was probably something like Peppermint 4 -- my all-time favorite Peppermnt distribution.  Peppermint 4 flew like a rocket, and was as solid as a rock.  And it didn't have that unhelpful aura rendering service going on within Chromium either.

I do admit I like Unity, but I started there.  This being said, I do keep an eye on it.  I don't trust it completely.  I don't like needing to know the secret handshake in order to turn off online search results, or to turn off the recording of file and application usage, or Ubuntu's addition of Amazon -- as if we need any of that nonsense.

Maybe MATE will be the way to go for Ubuntu in the future, but if Unity is going to be the wave of the future for mobile devices, I think MATE will remain a desktop environment more than an interface for mobile devices.

But, here's the thing I have with MATE:  When I finish configuring it, it always ends up looking nearly identical to Peppermint anyway. (I believe I've been Peppermintized!  ;))  Still MATE it is a wonderful flavor of Ubuntu, and I really do like it a lot.

All credit for this discovery goes to AndyInMokum.  Without him telling me about it, I would have missed learning about a wonderful DE.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on March 04, 2015, 05:00:35 pm
Hi all, how's going? As of Ubuntu 15.04, Ubuntu MATE is going to be officially in the Ubuntu stable: https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/ (https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/).  I find this news both strange and somewhat amusing.  Is this decision to officially include the MATE spin an unofficial admission that Unity is a marketing disaster?  Whatever the reason, it must have been a painful decision for Mark Shuttleworth to make.

I ran Ubuntu MATE 14.10 64bit for a short while.  It is very quick, very slick and it appears to be rock solid.  I have to say I was really impressed with it.  However there are words of wisdom from PCSpecNet in regards to MATE's long term viability.  The reason that the plug was originally pulled on GNOME 2 was because the development team felt it had reached its "sell by date".  I can fully understand PCNetSpec's concerns that the MATE team are trying to maintain the DE by patching patches so to speak?  I personally hope that MATE development can continue without a hitch.  One has to ask though.  Could this official support of Ubuntu 15.10 MATE herald an official Ubuntu renaissance or, is it just an accident waiting to happen  ;)?
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: VinDSL on March 04, 2015, 05:34:51 pm

Ubuntu 10.10 Maverick Meerkat .. the last version with Gnome 2.x and IMHO the best Ubuntu [...]

Agreed!  That's my backup OS, to this day [I use it when I break the dev branch].  Saved my bacon again, this week.

Really it's a 'cosmic' thing.  You just know that any release named 10.10 has to be a 10/10.   8) 
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: VinDSL on March 04, 2015, 05:51:40 pm
I personally hope that MATE development can continue without a hitch.  One has to ask though.  Could this official support of Ubuntu 15.10 MATE herald an official Ubuntu renaissance or, is it just an accident waiting to happen  ;)? 

This podcast is worth 1000 posts...   ;D

http://linuxluddites.com/media/LinuxLuddites026.mp3  (fast-forward to 1:07:00)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 04, 2015, 06:07:59 pm
Well give us a clue .. I'm not sure I want to sit through a 94MB, 2 hour 17 miuntes mp3  :o
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: VinDSL on March 04, 2015, 06:10:11 pm
Well give us a clue .. I'm not sure I want to sit through a 94MB, 2 hour 17 miuntes mp3  :o

Sorry!  I edited the post above.

Fast-forward to 1:07:00
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 04, 2015, 06:11:52 pm
yeah just spotted that :)

I'll check it out now....
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 04, 2015, 08:03:42 pm
Interesting stuff .. but as I've said before I'm of the opinion MATE has no long term future, Gnome 2.x is dead, they're doing a good job of keeping the corpse warm, but at the end of the day it's still a corpse.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 04, 2015, 09:02:03 pm
I'm taking it, PCNetSpec, that you're seeing LXQt, or Cinnamon, as the next movers and shakers in the desktop world.  From what I can gather, it's the Cinnamon desktop that is so popular in Mint.  Why wouldn't Ubuntu co-opt Cinnamon DE if it's so popular in Mint?  Also, as we talked about months ago, Lxde is generally moving more and more towards LXQt within most distributions -- even if not in Peppermint.  Sounds as if Cinnamon is already big now, while LXQt is up and coming.

I take it you see Unity as here to stay within Ubuntu.  Hopefully Canonical will clean up its act concerning privacy issues within Unity in the future.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: VinDSL on March 04, 2015, 10:46:01 pm
Interesting stuff .. but as I've said before I'm of the opinion MATE has no long term future [...]

Hrm...

I just realized that Compiz has a 'Mate Compatibility' tic in CCSM now.   ;)


(http://vindsl.com/images/2015-03-04-203831_1280x1024_scrot.png)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: emegra on March 05, 2015, 01:39:24 am
I used to think the same way as Mark that Mate was just Gnome 2 on life support but This podcast is changing my mind in fact I wouldn't mind it being adopted as a replacement for LXDE in future Peppermint releases

Anyway here's a podcast I think is definately worth listening to as well http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/78217/ubuntu-mate-gets-legit-lup-82/ (http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/78217/ubuntu-mate-gets-legit-lup-82/)

It's an interview with the Ubuntu Mate maintainer it starts at 59:03 and lasts for 25 mins approx and by the sound of it Mate is here for the long haul



Graeme
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on March 05, 2015, 03:53:15 am
I'm with you Graeme.  It is obvious that Martin Wimpress and the MATE team have really worked hard.  I think the effort they have put into the project has made MATE a lot more than a well maintained corpse.  As I have previously mentioned, I ran for a short time Ubuntu MATE 14.10.  It's really surprisingly very good.  According to Arindam Sen's blog review.  Its not quite as quick as Lubuntu. It's much snappier than Xubuntu though: ubuntu-mate-1410-review (http://mylinuxexplore.blogspot.com/2014/11/ubuntu-mate-1410-review-for-gnome-2.html).  I installed Peppermint's Ice application to see how it would work in the MATE environment.  The SSB's appear in the menu structure but without icons.  I guess that would be easy to fix.  Everything else worked flawlessly.  The SSBs fired up with no problems.  From what I have gathered from hearing several interviews with Martin Wimpress.  It really sounds like MATE is here to stay.  Ubuntu MATE is most certainly attracting a lot of attention and receiving very favourable reviews in the process.  I would most certainly back a MATE spin of Peppermint to run as an alternative desktop to LXDE

I also like perknh's idea of initiating a tip option in future Peppermint releases with, Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ (https://www.patreon.com/).  It's a fantastic and very affordable way of raising revenue to help our developers keep Peppermint the awesome distro it is now  ;).
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 05, 2015, 07:08:52 am
I used to think the same way as Mark that Mate was just Gnome 2 on life support but This podcast is changing my mind

Odd, because I saw it as strengthening my position  :-\

So the fact it's based on a ton of dead libraries that the lead developer admits they haven't the manpower to update (more than a few) .. or that they can't switch to gtk3 as they haven't the manpower to keep up with Gnome .. or the fact that that tells you they haven't the clout of Gnome yet are tasked with maintaining a whole Gnome version and indeed one that Gnome themselves considered hard to maintain .. leaves no impression on you ?

There's also the fact that if they switch to anything other than Gnome 2.x (and even gtk2), they'll hit the same user arguments that Unity and Cinnamon faced .. that it'll not be Gnome 2.x and work with the plethora of third party Gnome 2.x plugins there are.

They seem to know they've got to change .. yet the whole reason for their existence is to NOT change .. bit of a dilemma there don't you think ;)

@AndyInMokum

I'm not detracting from the hard work they've obviously put in .. I'm just suggesting that the job of maintaining Gnome 2.x is too big for them so it'll age badly and at an ever increasing rate .. or they'll have to switch to something else (which he admits having discussions about) which kinda renders MATE as you know it dead anyway.

Your ICE SSB comment points out their problem .. they *should* work, icons and all as they use the freedesktop.org standards .. if they don't  it meanssomething is broken in their desktop environment, but they guy in the podcast suggests that little problems like that will likely not be fixed as they haven't the manpower.
Over time there'll be more and more apps that break in the MATE environment and go unfixed .. and this will likely accelerate.

Seriously guys, I hope I'm wrong .. or they get the devs they'd need to keep up with bugfixing .. but that would require them to become larger than Gnome as even they were having problems.

To me MATE already feels 'rougher' than Gnome 2.x did in say Ubuntu 10.10 .. If MATE continues to exist and be relevant I doubt it'll be as the Gnome 2.x fork it is today .. but then again my crystal balls are not infallible :)

Quote from: perknh
I take it you see Unity as here to stay within Ubuntu.

Yes .. in fact I'm not even sure Ubuntu are in the Linux desktop market any more, besides it being treated as a useful plugin and test bed for their mobile push.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on March 05, 2015, 01:35:32 pm
Wow! I didn't know that PCNetSpec had crystal balls!! Must have been one of the more expensive surgical procedures that only private medical insurance covers ...

 :P

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 05, 2015, 02:16:16 pm
The crystal balls are nothing you should see his Silver Sceptre....   LMAO     :o
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 05, 2015, 02:51:26 pm
Quote
Peppermint is not planning on going down the Qt route, it'll be sticking with Gtk .. Peppermint has been progressively moving away from a pure LXDE environment for some time (in fact it never was), and will continue to do so .. if anything, the LXQt thing will probably just speed this up a bit, but if you really take a good look at Peppermint 5 there's not rally that many LXDE components left, certainly not that many that couldn't easily be swapped out ;) --PCNetSpec

http://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php/topic,926.msg7987.html#msg7987

It will be interesting to see which direction Peppermint 6 goes.  But we do have PCNetSpec's back.  If the fog clears for MATE, and PCNetSpec wants Peppermint 6 to return to the better Maverick Meerkat days.  I'm sure he'll have Peppermint Nation behind him. 

I was shocked to see that when I finished configuring Ubuntu's MATE 14.04.1, I had it looking almost exactly the same as Peppermint.  It would not be a large leap for Peppermint's users to go from our Peppermint version of LXDE to a Peppermint version of MATE.  Changes are coming for Peppermint 6.  I imagine MATE has to be one of the options on Peppermint 6's drawing board.

Being a latecomer to Linux, I never realized how the early Ubuntuites must have felt after the introduction of Unity.  The early GNOME users of Ubuntu must have felt like they got shot at and missed, ignored, and then bit.  :(

That would leave anyone with a bad feeling.

Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 05, 2015, 03:05:36 pm
I vote peppermint 6 adopts Cinnamon, because linux mint 17 cinnamon is the best linux I ever ran, my only beef with it is you can't turn off crap you don't use, which would save a ton of memory... Since peppermint has always been light weight, I would definitely switch all my machines over if they looked and ran just like Mint 17 Cinnamon...     :D
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 05, 2015, 03:26:09 pm
But if we adopted the Cinnamon desktop, we wouldn't have the look and feel of Peppermint any longer.  It would be a lot like adopting Unity.  With the exception of MATE's Applications, Places, and System, the MATE DE is an awfully lot like LXDE.  Peppermint Nation would feel right at home is they used MATE.  There would hardly be any learning curve at all.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on March 05, 2015, 03:48:22 pm
My first taste of Linux was with LMDE Cinnamon 1.8.  I was shocked how beautiful it was.  I often had both friends and strangers asking how I got my Windows to look and behave like this or that  ;D.  Everyone was really surprised when they realized it was Linux.  They were even more surprised to find out LMDE Cinnamon was just one of hundreds of Linux distros and variations of a theme.  While I do think the Cinnamon DE wins the crown for best looking of any DE, on any platform.  It is a little too heavy to be seriously considered as a spin for a lightweight distro like Peppermint. 

Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 05, 2015, 03:54:55 pm
Hi AndyInMokum,

Cinnamon even looks nicer than Windows 7 itself.  It is very attractive.  But MATE flies.  I don't know which distribution is faster, Peppermint or MATE; but they're both extremely fast.  ;)

perknh
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on March 05, 2015, 04:16:17 pm
Hi perknh, how's it going?  I know where you are coming from.  Ubuntu MATE is undoubtedly fast and I think it is also really nice looking.  I have already expressed my enthusiasm to the idea of a Peppermint MATE spin.  I do have go back to what PCNetSpec keeps saying about MATE being based on old defunct code though.  Is it like beating a dead horse?  I don't know, I'm not that experienced in these matters.  I sincerely hope that this is one of those rare occasions that PCNetSpec is wrong.  However as we all know, those instances are far and few between  ;).
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 05, 2015, 04:34:31 pm
I sincerely hope that this is one of those rare occasions that PCNetSpec is wrong.  However as we all know, those instances are far and few between  ;).

Hi AndyInMokum,

You're right.  Everything PCNetSpec makes sense.  But I believe this is one of those rare times when even PCNetSpec is hoping he will be wrong.  It would be nice if all the old true Linuxites could have their old GNOME experience back -- even if it is now called MATE.

I can see there is a grassroots movement happening right now with MATE.  I'm excited to see how far it will go.  Something has to change. This is exciting stuff.  Linux is the People's OS after all!   :)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 05, 2015, 05:07:44 pm
However as we all know, those instances are far and few between  ;).

That depends who you ask .. according to my missus I'm rarely (if ever) right ;)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: emegra on March 05, 2015, 05:13:12 pm
Quote
I sincerely hope that this is one of those rare occasions that PCNetSpec is wrong.

What do you mean "Rare"

Quote
However as we all know, those instances are far and few between 

"Are they ?"

Yeah ok he's probably right (he does have a habit of being right a lot, it's very annoying) but like you Andy I don't know that much about libraries and all that behind the scenes stuff that goes into making a distro but in spite of that Mate did look to me a perfect fit for Peppermint

When Mate was first introduced I was running Mint (Can't remember the version) but if I remember correctly it was offered alongside the first version of Cinnamon and was more or less a transitional option until Gnome got their act together with Gnome3 and most people gave it a very short life expectancy that was a few years ago now and Mate is still being actively developed, gaining interest and used in many distros

@Mark

Just out of curiosity If you don't think Mate would be a good choice for Peppermint what would you suggest ?


Graeme
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 05, 2015, 05:35:10 pm
I didn't say MATE wouldn't be a good fit, just that it has no LONG TERM future unless there are major changes or a LOT more active developers (which I hope they get).. I didn't say anything at all about which direction Peppermint should take, that's not my call.

Personally I've always liked Peppermints willingness to mix and match desktop components.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on March 05, 2015, 05:36:49 pm
Quote
That depends who you ask .. according to my missus I'm rarely (if ever) right ;)
Your missus and mine must be reading the same instruction manual  :D!!
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 05, 2015, 05:38:54 pm
LOL :)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 05, 2015, 05:52:55 pm
Your missus and mine must be reading the same instruction manual  :D!!

And it's been translated into multiple languages too!  ;D
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on March 05, 2015, 06:17:04 pm
Quote
And it's been translated into multiple languages too!  ;D
That's for sure, it can sound like a session of the UN in this house sometimes  :P!!
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 26, 2015, 06:14:00 pm
The Linux desktop battle (and why it matters)
Jack Wallen ponders the problem with the ever-lagging acceptance of the Linux desktop and poses a radical solution.

By Jack Wallen March 26, 2015, 10:24 AM PST for TechRepublic / U.S.

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-linux-desktop-battle-and-why-it-matters/ (http://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-linux-desktop-battle-and-why-it-matters/)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 26, 2015, 06:30:55 pm
Biggest bunch of drivel I've read in  while

Yeah sure, lets turn Linux into Windows 8.1 with one desktop and one package manager, choice is confusing, etc. etc. blah blah blah......

Windows users don't like the new metaphor either (mac users don't count as they'd buy a turd if it had an apple logo on it and was priced so they could feel elitist).. and let's face it, it's not being done to make a "better" desktop UI, it's being done to converge the desktop UI and mobile UI so less work for the devs in the long term .. problem is it's at the expense of both ::)

He says he's against change for the sake of change .. then babbles on about its only benefit being it "looks" more modern ..

Modern doesn't automatically equate to "better" .. in fact at an ever increasing rate, and in a LOT of fields it actually means worse/cheaper/shallow ::)

We don't make square wheels to make them look modern .. round works, end of development.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 26, 2015, 07:07:28 pm
Biggest bunch of drivel I've read in  while

I, personally, think that having multiple desktops is one of Linux' strongest suits.  But since Jack Wallen, who is a very good writer, a very bright guy, and a Linux lover, brought this subject up; I thought his opinion belonged in this thread.  Within this article he had such a strong focus on Canoncal's decision to adopt the Unity desktop, I felt an obligation to post it here.

I know I'm the only guy at Peppermint who will admit he likes Unity -- even though I'll admit Unity is a tremendous resource hog, is set by default to invade everybody's privacy, and has a pathetic history.  My wish, however, is that Unity would lighten up a bit -- resource-wise and on wanting all our personal info.

That being said, in this house, we're running two installations of Peppermint, and one of Ubuntu MATE -- nada más! ;)

And the thread goes one... :)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on March 26, 2015, 07:17:49 pm
Quote
Quote from: PCNetSpec on Today at 00:30:55:.."Windows users don't like the new metaphor either (mac users don't count as they'd buy a turd if it had an apple logo on it and was priced so they could feel elitist)........"
Lets get it right.  We don't want Tim Cook sending in the lawyers - it's an iTurd for God's sake  ;D!!
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 26, 2015, 07:54:53 pm
You know, AndyInMokum, they* did a study here in the U.S. and it was discovered that some Airline Internet ticket vendors set their ticket prices by which OS the purchaser was using at the time they where making their purchases.  In this study it was determined that Apple users paid more for the same ticket that Windows users bought. (I not making this stuff up, I'm sorry to say!)

Fortunately for us, I've always kept away from Apple as if it was the plague.  Naturally I'm hoping that us Linux users will get best break of all when purchasing anything.  I'm hoping this because I suspect most of us Linux users will be the users who will need this break the most!  ;D


*  http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/mac-users-higher-hotel-prices-orbitz/story?id=16650014 (http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/mac-users-higher-hotel-prices-orbitz/story?id=16650014)

P.S.

Therefore I conclude this:  If any device from Apple ends up being called an iTurd, it will because the poor buggers using it will be crapped on the most.  :D

Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 26, 2015, 08:18:28 pm
Quote
If any device from Apple ends up being called an iTurd

Believe me, they already are :)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 26, 2015, 10:54:36 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 27, 2015, 09:23:45 am
all you need to do if you want to be a happy camper is install LXLE it is the only linux I have seen that had like 5 DE's built into it...  install it and if you don't like the default of lxde then switch it to unity or even apple for that matter...  but don't gripe about a desktop, when their is a distro out there with multiple desktops not to mention it installs every program a user would want to have and isn't stripped to bare bones like peppermint is...  this is the one reason I always go with linux mint cinnamon over peppermint is because when I do a peppermint install i have to add all the programs, when I do a mint install i am done...  want to make the perfect distro??? you have to keep in mind what the users want like mint has done, and take a copy of mint and add 5 DE's to it like LXLE did and walla you are the best....  :P
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: 10i on March 27, 2015, 09:27:09 am
But if I installed LxLE, what would I complain about?

;)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on March 27, 2015, 09:51:55 am
As much as I like Mint, (especially the Cinnamon DE  ;)).  I find it hard work to setup the way I want it.  First I have to remove all the stuff they've decided I want and need.  I then have to install the stuff I need and want to use.  The thing that attracted me to Peppermint was the lack of pre-installed software.  No one had decided my preferences for me - fantastic  ;)!!  I like that I get a working stable distro that's a blank canvas.  In the user guide, there are plenty of nOObcentric instructions for anyone to easily create thier own unique distro.  This and having the Ice app to create easy Cloud integration, is for me a no brainer.  Plus, I found it was really enjoyable to do and I have learnt a huge amount in the process.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 27, 2015, 11:19:35 am
Quote from: rjm65
this is the one reason I always go with linux mint cinnamon over peppermint is because when I do a peppermint install i have to add all the programs, when I do a mint install i am done

I'm with Andy here .. I don't want the distro developers making software choices for me, I inevitably have to spend time working out what some unrecognised software does then decide if I want to keep it, then figure out how to FULLY and cleanly remove the stuff I don't want, then install the stuff I do.

For me it's MUCH easier to have a fairly bare bones "blank canvas" and just install what *I* want, nothing more, nothing less

There are other minimal install distros out there, but they have pretty much ZERO functionality OOTB, whereas Peppermint's ice allows Peppermint to be fully functional OOTB without having made locally installed choices for you, so nothing to uninstall

In any case we've tried to make "purposing" your Peppermint install as easy as possible with the "Peppermint <purpose> Pack" metapackages, where you can install a ton of software with a few clicks

Available packs are:-
peppermint-office-pack
peppermint-photography-pack
peppermint-graphic-arts-pack
peppermint-build-tools-pack
peppermint-networking-pack
peppermint-kids-edutainment-pack

I don't get why people whine when they get a laptop with pre-installed OEM chosen software (crying out for a clean Windows only setup), yet want pre-installed stuff in a Linux distro ?

BIG difference between "easy to install" and "thrust upon you" ;)



As for LXLE .. totally different ethos to Peppermint .. LXLE aren't an "everything including the kitchen sink" distro, they're a "everything including 6 kitchen sinks, 5 bathroom sinks, and dual sinks in the shed" distro, and sod you if you don't like unused stuff clogging your hard drive (or worse SSD).
Nothing wrong with that approach .. it's just different to what we're about ;)

Kinda the antitheses of Peppermints "minimal locally installed apps" ethos don't you think  :P

Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 27, 2015, 03:03:19 pm
I look at Unity as if the OS were a suite.  It's got EVERYTHING in it, and it's set by default to call home with your personal business too!  ::)  So, when I install Unity, the first thing I do is go into the privacy settings, and turn everything off. (I wonder, also, if such a heavy OS is harmful to one's laptop in the long run.  This I do not know.)  :-\

I find Peppermint and Ubuntu MATE to be quite similar to each other.  I Peppermintize MATE, and after I set it up, so I have look twice to see if I'm using MATE or using Peppermint.  But if I could make one change to Peppermint, it would be to add Firefox as an optional browser alongside Chromium browser.  The reason being, a lot of old computers do not play well with these later versions of Chromium and Chrome.  (We use Chromium at our house, but than our computers are only two to three years old.)

The distro I've always said I'm going to learn, but then never do, is Arch Linux.  I've heard it's a very customizable distro.  I don't know if I have either the brains, or the patience, to learn the thing.  But, then, if I do learn it, I would want it be like Peppermint or MATE anyway.  So then I ask myself, "What's the point?"  :-\

But what makes Peppermint Linux OS rock more than any other distro is this very forum.  I know there are a lot of fine distros out there, and Peppermint is as good as any distro I've ever see, and a lot better than many.  But is Peppermint forum it or what?  :)  The first thing I do when I check my email is to see if anything is happening at Peppermint.  The people behind this distro is what brings this distro to life.  It's the community of users here, who come from all over the world, who make this distribution stand out from the crowd. 

It's Peppermint's forum that rocks!  :)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on March 27, 2015, 05:47:22 pm
Well said that man  ;)!!
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 27, 2015, 07:13:21 pm
+1 for the Peppermint community rocking :)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on March 28, 2015, 05:34:22 am
Also +1 for the Peppermint forum!!  ;)

In fact, the one thing that bothers me about Arch Linux is the forum. What a bunch of snobby ultra-geeks!  :-[ I understand that probably 75% or more of the questions posed on their forum have already been asked and solved on their forum, but the tone of the replies is often really overboard!! Rather say nothing than give such insulting, derogatory replies as some of the experts there give to noobs. The Peppermint community is much more civil and friendly.

The Linux information on the Arch forum and the Arch Wiki is, however, really first rate. Just don't expect much in the way of personal help -- on the Arch forum it's pretty much search, find and do-it-yourself. Definitely not the place for some of our Peppermint users (I refrain from naming anyone in particular)!!

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: AndyInMokum on March 28, 2015, 06:53:09 am
Yup, you have to tread carefully with the Arch gang.  They have a low tolerance threshold for us mere mortals  :(.  Their wiki is second to none though.  So maybe we can accept this with gratitude and realize that we're NEVER going to be quite like them  ;D!!
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: Slim.Fatz on March 28, 2015, 07:45:07 am
Well ... I could certainly try to be like them. Of course, I would be banned from this forum immediately!  :D

Regards,

-- Slim
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 28, 2015, 08:28:18 am
I've decided on a new word for the arch "flame" type responses to new user questions.

There will be no flarching allowed here ;)

Couldn't agree more about their forum and wiki being about the best repositories of Linux info out there
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 28, 2015, 11:53:17 am
My last two mornings were spent removing, and humanely relocating, two young and adorable skunks from under our front porch and bringing them to a new habitat several miles away -- a habitat more accommodating to these creatures' specialized skills and unique personalities. 

These last two mornings have lead me to believe that PCNetSpec is correct.  All flarching against Arch must stop here.  I know from recent experience that a seemingly rare and innocent flarch can, in short order, turn into a barrage of insufferable triple flutterblasts -- hence the removal and relocation our four-legged friends mentioned above.

This being said, there is a flarchlike element to Arch. :-X   It was not Mr. Personality who wrote the FAQ for ArchLinux.  The writer might as well have said that newbies are to suffer in silence, and that the Arch forum is for the elites, or for Linux gurus.  Still, in fairness to the writer, he does give the newbie fair warning.

Quote
Arch is targeted more towards advanced GNU/Linux users... --Arch Wiki

So how does one become a more knowledgeable user of Linux and still have fun?   :-\  I'm thinking of playing with Manjaro's Net Edition, and then building from there.  But what about Gentoo? (Gentoo seems very complicated but Arch-like, and with a reasonably friendly forum.)   Or should one put Arch on a 16GB flashdrive, and then just plug away at it little by little?

I've noticed that Arch, Manjaro, and Gentoo are all staying clear of the Unity desktop.  I've also noticed that the community build of Gnome seems to very popular over at Manjaro these days.

P.S.

Update:

Scratch the idea of starting with a Manjaro Net Installation.  Although the SHA1 and MD5 checksums matched correctly.  I couldn't install this particular Manjaro distro to a DVD;  even though I ruined one trying!  And, when I tried to boot from a flash drive, my computer experienced a kernel panic -- my computer's first!  :o

Fortunately, AndyInMokum's check disks commands were at my fingertips.  My computer is fine:  my Peppermint and MATE installations were left unscathed!  ;)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 28, 2015, 01:32:06 pm
No "flentooing" either.

"Flanjaring" on the other hand (as long as it's aimed at a "manjaroo" or a "womanjaroo") may be tolerated....

[EDIT]

And don't even get me started on flaming of/for the UCK team  :o
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 28, 2015, 02:12:21 pm
Hey wait a minute why does the UCK team get a free pass from flaming???   :P
I think we should be able to flame those Fl***ers too...   ;)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 28, 2015, 02:27:08 pm
Nope this is not a florum, only their mothers are allowed to flame them.....

and please don't .. it doesn't need to be in print ;)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: 10i on March 28, 2015, 03:00:42 pm
I know I guy who taught himself Gentoo. When I asked him how he did it, he said he locked himself in a room for 1 year and studied it. He told me to do the same, I am not sure if I would survive the year. I am still very much in the shallow end of the pool and I don't enjoy braking stuff and having to reinstall.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 28, 2015, 03:26:49 pm
You know PCNetSpec, that fabled Ubuntu 10.10 Maverick Meerkat, that Unity destroyed, and that is considered by many to be the best DE Ubuntu ever produced;  well, that DE still exists.  Yes, believe it or not, some odd group of Ubuntuites created an edition of Ubuntu based on 10.10 Maverick Meerkat.  Maverick Meerkat has now been recast and modified as Ubuntu Satanic edition.  Yes, strange, I know, but this means your assessment of Ubuntu's best DE having gone straight to blank in a hand basket may be closer to reality than even you could have imagined!

Yeah, I'm sure these guys, although a little twisted, must have done this as a joke (although I suspect this distro must have now attracted their fair share of creeple people) -- but, most importantly,  there's still an updated and supported version of Ubuntu 10.10 in existence!  :)

I watched some of the YouTube video Mum Tries Out Ubuntu Satanic Edition 666.9 by OSFirstTimer.  At the beginning of the video it was like silly Halloween prank that this woman played along with with her son for a little fun.  But about half way through the video you could see that this poor lady was completely weirded out by the whole distro -- due to its art and special effects.

But what I'm thinking is, there must be a way to get rid of the special effects that were added to this strange edition of classic Ubuntu, and get back a nice clean updated Maverick Meerkat -- after all this is open source.

Maybe you already knew about this info, but this news caught me by surprise, and I found it both interesting and quite bizarre.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: PCNetSpec on March 28, 2015, 03:40:29 pm
Yeah I already knew about Ubuntu SE mores the pity....

10.10 was just the last version of Ubuntu with the Gnome 2.x DE .. MATE is a fork of Gnome 2.x intended to keep it alive .. so really Ubuntu MATE is the closest direct descendant of Maverick Meerkat with Mint MATE now coming in a close second.

Ubuntu SE and the flipside Ubuntu CE are just weird  .. but each to their own I suppose.

And we'll just not visit Hannah Montana Linux and Justin Bieber Linux  ::)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 28, 2015, 05:41:04 pm
@PCNetSpec

Behind all the smoke, mirrors, and silly theatrics , MATE is what I saw when I took a look at Ubuntu SE.  How I'd love to see Ubuntu MATE take off, and go deeply into the consciousness of the Ubuntu community.  Ubuntu MATE really is an excellent distro.

@10i

I know I guy who taught himself Gentoo. When I asked him how he did it, he said he locked himself in a room for 1 year and studied it. He told me to do the same, I am not sure if I would survive the year. I am still very much in the shallow end of the pool and I don't enjoy breaking stuff and having to reinstall.

I believe that's just about what it takes.  I suspect if you learned Gentoo, you wouldn't need much help from Arch Linux' forum after all.  That is if you decided you even wanted to install Arch after knowing how to run Gentoo!  ;D
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 28, 2015, 06:00:39 pm
I wonder why nobody ever made a turd linux with built in fart sounds, see I would download and install that just for laughs...  LOL   :o
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 28, 2015, 06:54:47 pm
They already did.  I think it's called Android!  ;)

That thing makes more gassly sounds than I know what to do with.  >:(

P.S.

Given a choice between Android and Unity, I'd take Unity any ole day.
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 28, 2015, 07:25:48 pm
what android do you run???  I have 6 tablets here that i run android on all day long and they don't make any sounds except for the tap sound when you tap something... 
given a choice between android and unity i still say unity sucks there is nothing worse then unity it is the worst thing they ever made....  And they lost me as a customer for switching to it...  :)  I'll send my money to linux mint now hmm wonder what they charge, oh yeah its free never mind...  LOL  :P
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 28, 2015, 09:30:59 pm
l'm thinking of Straight Talk's Samsung Galaxy S4 phone.  Walmart's Straight Talk is obnoxious, trying to convince users (frequently those who are foreign born and who's second language is English) to activate their service card immediately instead of placing their funds automatically in reserve until the customer uses up the time they have already paid for.  Yeah, Straight Talk has a little con game going on with its foreign born customer base, I promise you that-- just in case you've never heard their recordings.

Also, I'm talking about Android's noises when it boots up, shuts off, or the sounds it makes when it becomes fully charged.  And, metaphorically I'm talking about all the fine print to which you have to agree before you can use any of Google's services.  Yeah, those "agreements" stink too.  Yes, there may be a Linux kernel somewhere in that device, but I can't find the word Linux anywhere within the fine print within the phone.  It may be Linux, but it's certainly not GNU/Linux.  Maybe it's called Dalvik Linux, or something like that, but I can't even update the phone's darn kernel -- which means the phone is slowly but surely being forced into an untimely obsolescence.  >:( 

No, I still prefer Unity to Android.  And I realize now, thanks to this thread, that you longtime Ubuntu users really did get the short end of the stick when Unity took over.  I get that, and I even sent some coffee money over to Ubuntu's MATE team to help get you poor buggers up and running again with an improved Maverick Meerkat.  It's just that I think everybody these days is getting the short end of the stick with Android.

I understand you're sore with what Unity did, and justifiably so.  I'm sore too with what Android is doing right now; and what's worse than this, from what I can see, all cell phones will eventually become Android, or an iPhone (iTurd), whether I like it or not.  Personally I can't stand the cost, the trickery, or the so-called agreed upon invasion of our privacy with Android.  No, Android doesn't rock my boat -- but this just seems to be me with a particular set of peculiar grievances.  Just about everybody I see nowadays has either an Android, or an iPhone, or an iTurd, or whatever they're popularly called.  I'm just about the only man left standing with a dumb phone.  ???

Quote
I have 6 tablets here that i run android on all day long... --rjm65

Don't worry, rjm65, despite my feelings, I just kicked out $45 tonight to help keep Android rolling in the bucks as I placed more money in Straight Talk's "reserve."  I'm helping to carry the world into Android whether I want to or not.

P.S.

An update:

See the nightmare doesn't go away.  I can't get away from Android.  Now we're going to have to deal with this with our Chromebook:

Google Is Bringing Android’s ‘Google Now’ To Chromebooks by Thomas Halleck of International Business Times

http://www.ibtimes.com/google-bringing-androids-google-now-chromebooks-1862492 (http://www.ibtimes.com/google-bringing-androids-google-now-chromebooks-1862492)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 29, 2015, 08:30:35 am
my android tablets make no noises on startup or shutdown however when battery is full it plays your default sound which you can change with one of the 25 built in sounds or choose NONE...  So all I can say is buy a tablet, cause the android on your phone is nothing like a tablet pc....  :)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 29, 2015, 10:06:41 am
Good morning, rjm65,

We also have an old Android tablet here, but it's about 3 years.  Unfortunately it now runs as slow as cold molasses.  But I see people all the time, at cafes, and at McDonald's, with newer and and larger tablets.  There's got to be something going on with these devices that people like.  If my wife wants one, I'll get one for her; but right now she's enjoying her Chromebook a great deal.  And if Google begins adding Android apts, or Android functionality to it, I'm sure she'll be even a happier with it than she is right now.  :)  (She has Peppermint installed on her laptop.)

Now, rjm65, I know you, as well as many others here, had a miserable experience with Ubuntu when it adopted Unity as its default DE.  But, on one of your earlier posts, you had expressed a curiosity about the new Ubuntu MATE.  Now that some time has passed, have you ever gotten a chance to check the new Ubuntu MATE out?  And, if so, what do you think of it?

Most of us here agree that MATE is a wonderful distribution, and a breath of fresh air to what has been a very frustrated Ubuntu community.

perknh
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 29, 2015, 12:18:22 pm
Nope I have not tried ubuntu mate I have run linux mint mate in the past and I like it a lot I'll check it out at some point in time...
My tablets are all Asus Memo pads they are 10 inch quad cores, and they are really nice, i found them off lease on ebay i paid 99 bucks a piece for them, and they were like they were never used, only my wifes did i find a scratch on the face but it is in the black area and not on the actual screen itself...  :)
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: perknh on March 29, 2015, 02:51:12 pm
Sounds like you got a couple of good deals!  :)

You know taught me, a year or so back, that some computers play better with some distos than others.  I tried to put Mint's Cinnamon edition on an old 11-year-old HP desktop.  I couldn't do it.  For some reason that old computer rejected Mint completely.  So far that old computer has only accepted Ubuntu's Unity (which was so slow and worthless that there was no point to using it), Ubuntu's LXDE (which was also too slow, but faster than Unity), Ubuntu's Xfce (which was good, somewhat slow,  but a little challenging for a first-time Linux user), and Ubuntu's MATE (good, although a little choppy at times, very user friendly, and with 4 more years of support!)

I thought for this user and her computer, Mint's Cinnamon LTS edition would be just what the doctor ordered; but that finicky old computer said, "No, thank you -- Mr. Mint Cinnamon edition!"  :(

I've never known why.  :-\ 
Title: Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
Post by: rjm65 on March 29, 2015, 03:57:30 pm
I had a computer like that also it hated everything I put on it, only thing that worked was Antix....
I tried ubuntu mate off a flash drive, it just looks like the old ubuntu before unity came out... 
Linux Mint Mate on the other hand is really nice compared to ubuntu mate... 
I don't think I can ever go back to ubuntu now that I have seen linux mint, cause linux mint puts ubuntu to shame....   :D