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General => GNU/Linux Discussion => Topic started by: perknh on November 01, 2014, 08:19:06 am

Title: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: perknh on November 01, 2014, 08:19:06 am
Hello Pepperminters,

I see that openSuse is coming out with an upgraded OS in a couple of days -- openSuse 13.2.  What I've never understood is what makes openSuse so different from other Linux distributions.

Would anyone know what makes openSuse different from other OSes?  From the outside it seems very similar to the Debian/Ubuntu family of Linux distributions to me.

Thank you,

perknh

http://www.opensuse.org/en/ (http://www.opensuse.org/en/)
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes?
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 01, 2014, 08:31:32 am
I haven't checked out openSUSE for quite some time (put off by earlier experiences)

The main difference has histrically been their package management and configuration system (which used to be YaST/YaST2 (dunno what they're doing now), whiich IMHO sucked but may have improved (if they still use it at all).

It uses RPM packages as opposed to DEB packages

They do however (or so I'm told) have some very nice developer services, such as:
https://build.opensuse.org/

In "use"it probably wouldn't be hugely different .. in adding/removing software it will be different from Debian/Ubuntu/etc.

I'm told it's improved greatly since I last tried it .. but I'm happy with the Debian apt tools, and DEB's (never liked RPM's)
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes?
Post by: perknh on November 01, 2014, 08:50:29 am
Thank you, PCNetSpec.

Now that's a Red Hat Package Manager.  So am I correct in assuming that openSuse would use yum commands like Fedora does?  Am I getting this right?

perknh
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes?
Post by: VinDSL on November 01, 2014, 09:23:38 am
YaST/YaST2 (dunno what they're doing now), which IMHO sucked but may have improved (if they still use it at all).

I was totally invested in openSuSe, back in '08-'09.  I ran it on my portables and the desktop; both KDE & Gnome. I was active in the community forums, blah, blah, blah.

SUSE/openSuSe is an enterprise-grade distro, much like Solaris/openSolaris or Red Hat/CentOS, et cetera.

You're probably asking yourself why I eventually gave it up!?!?!

Mark hit the nail on the head - YaST was a TOTAL kludge.  openSuSe was shockingly beautiful -- a quality product -- but, I H-A-T-E-D YaST!

I haven't kept abreast of openSuSe since 2009.  I don't know/don't care what package manager(s) they're using now, but if it's still YaST, I would suggest steering clear of it.

As an aside, during this same period of time, I discovered Mint OS 7 (Gloria) was much like the present-day Peppermint OS.  I loved 'Gloria', but alas, she eventually died, and Peppermint has filled that hole in my life.   :)

Anyway, one way of thinking about it is...  SUSE, if you will, is a German Red Hat.  They follow the same model.  And, openSuSe is the bastard child of SUSE, e.g. the free version -- with all the implications.

Not my cup o' tea any more, but...
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes?
Post by: perknh on November 01, 2014, 10:37:41 am
Mark hit the nail on the head - YaST was a TOTAL kludge.  openSuSe was shockingly beautiful -- a quality product -- but, I H-A-T-E-D YaST!

This is very interesting. 

I get it.  YaST is a German-style yum!

VinDSL, I've always been a sucker for a pretty OS, and when I saw that openSuse had LXDE and has a new release coming out in a couple of days, I said to myself, "Why not give it a try?"

I run Peppermint on my external hard drive, and Lubuntu on my internal hard drive.  And although I do manual updating regularly, I hate the feeling that I need to babysit Lubuntu because of its automatic updating problem.  But maybe I won't jump onto this openSuse idea of mine so quickly.

But, then again, it is awfully pretty...  ;)

You guys have covered everything I needed to know about openSuse.  I never understood what was so unique about openSuse until today.

Thank you,

perknh
 

Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes?
Post by: VinDSL on November 01, 2014, 11:08:43 am
I never understood what was so unique about openSuse until today.

When I was involved with openSuSe, there was a lot of drama revolving around KDE vs Gnome.  I was in the Gnome camp.

When all the dust settled, I *think* most ppl were in agreement that openSuSe had become the best_of_the_best in regard to KDE.

If you're going to commit yourself to installing openSuSe, you might as well go the KDE route IMO.

KDE will give you the fullest openSuSe experience.   ;)
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes?
Post by: perknh on November 01, 2014, 11:30:28 am
KDE will give you the fullest openSuSe experience.   ;)

Hey, why not?  What do I have to lose? 

I've only looked at KDE in passing, and I've never tried openSUSE at all.  Sounds like a fun experiment.

Thank you for that idea.

perknh
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes? (SOLVED)
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 01, 2014, 02:28:07 pm
Quote
I get it.  YaST is a German-style yum!

Erm not quite, YUM (YellowDog Updater Modified) is a command line installer in the same way as apt/dkg

YasT and Zypper would be similar in function to Ubuntu's "System Settings" and  Synaptic package manager  .. only worse, MUCH worse.
(YasT can also have an ncurses front end like aptitude)



Quote
openSuSe had become the best_of_the_best in regard to KDE

OMG (first time I've ever used that acronym) .. openSUSE / KDE / YasT ... you just revealed the unholy trinity  :o



@VinDSL

I know what you mean, but can I ask what makes say Redhat or SUSE any more "enterprise class" than any other distro ?

Paid support contracts and outdated packages maybe ?
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes? (SOLVED)
Post by: AndyInMokum on November 01, 2014, 02:49:57 pm
Quote from Portal:YaST:
Quote
YaST is the installation and configuration tool for openSUSE and the SUSE Linux Enterprise distributions. It is popular for its easy use and attractive graphical interface and the capability to customize your system quickly during and after the installation. YaST actually stands for Yet another Setup Tool. YaST can be used to configure your entire system. Setup hardware, configure the network, system services and tune your security settings. All these tasks can be reached from the YaST Control Center.
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes? (SOLVED)
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 01, 2014, 03:01:27 pm
Quote
It is popular for its easy use and attractive graphical interface

Bwahahahahaha  :o

Not the way I remember it

I remember it as a maze of disparate parts that made no sense, was impossible to navigate, and tried to do too much .. but then who am I to argue with the YaST portal  >:D

openSUSE, YaST and KDE 4.2 (and a 2month fight with a HPLIP-GUI panel applet that had a mind of its own) were why I ended up at Ubuntu's door just in time for 10.04 .. happy there for a year (as VinDSL said elsewhere 10.10 being the best Ubuntu to date) .. then they did 11.04 with Unity, so I ended up with Peppermint 2 :)
(there, * do* have something to thank Unity for)
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes? (SOLVED)
Post by: VinDSL on November 01, 2014, 03:15:27 pm
@VinDSL

I know what you mean, but can I ask what makes say Redhat or SUSE any more "enterprise class" than any other distro ?

Paid support contracts and outdated packages maybe ?

I didn't mean that in a good way.  I could just as easily thrown ms winders into the mix, but I was trying to be nice.

IMO, all those "enterprise class" vendors treat paying customers like an ATM machine.  It's all about money. 

Also, IMO, they treat the open "sores" crowd, the non-payees, with great disdain -- like, red-headed stepchildren.  Doesn't matter how much time you spend volunteering your time, trying to make their product(s) better, they'll always end up dispatching your recommendations with a belch.

Actually, this "enterprise class" treatment is what killed the (officially sanctioned) openSolaris community.  They got a new CEO, and he flatly told us to go pound salt.  He wasn't going to spend a penny supporting free software.  Really, I prefer things that way -- I'd rather get stabbed in the chest than in the back, you know?

Anyway, that's what I was hinting at, in a rather obtuse way.  :)
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes? (SOLVED)
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 01, 2014, 03:20:27 pm
In that case I claim the right to act like my missus, and to completely and unreservedly change direction on everything I've ever said ;)
(which in my missus case quite probably includes "I do", and "by god, look at the size of that")
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes? (SOLVED)
Post by: rjm65 on November 01, 2014, 03:43:38 pm
@ pcnetspec... 

LOL   :o
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes? (SOLVED)
Post by: perknh on November 01, 2014, 06:56:35 pm
Where do I get this idea that it might be wise to change my mind? :-\

Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes? (SOLVED)
Post by: dsplayname on November 01, 2014, 11:30:33 pm
I played with OpenSUSE 13.1 a little bit....it was nice.  YaST has( from what I've read here), improved a good bit.  It's just GUI for things I prefer to do through the terminal and text editors though, so I didn't use it much.   Zypper is the apt/yum equivalent for that stuff. It works fine, but is more to type than apt or yum.
  I really like their art direction and general look/feel.   Most of the software for OpenSuse is available through their web portal, with 1-click installs available in the form of web link buttons.  It's a very nice feature.   And, as already said, their build service/tools are good, as is their balance between stability(everything I tried was stable) and cutting-edge releases(most of what I tried was the latest and greatest versions of software).

  Anyway, a developer named Ikey recommended it to me, so I gave it a try for a while; and liked it for the most part. I switched back to Peppermint for work on the P5 release, so I haven't given 13.2 a go yet.   My general impression of it was that it was a little bit more work to get initially setup than Ubuntu and it's children, but worked pretty much the same once everything was the way I wanted it.

   
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: perknh on November 02, 2014, 04:38:01 am
 Thank you, dsplayname,
 
I know that curiosity is going to eventually get the best of me here.  So I just signed up for an account at openSUSE.

My greatest concern is my processor.  My labtop has only a 2.4 GHz processor.  Whether or not it will be able to handle a KDE desktop environment is anyone's guess right now.

I do like openSUSE's idea of Tumbleweed -- of always having updated stable software.  I like the idea of set it and forget it.

By the way, you haven't missed anything regarding openSUSE's version 13.2.  There's still one more day to go before its release. 


perknh
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes? (SOLVED)
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 02, 2014, 07:19:59 am
Probably the best answer to your question (If you mean "distros" instead of "OSes") would be .. "not a lot, under the skin Linux is Linux".

If on the other hand you *do* mean OSes .. well it's quite different from MS-DOS in a number of ways ;)

The "shortest" answer would be - "only one way to find out..."
(everything anyone else tells you is just an opinion)
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other OSes? (SOLVED)
Post by: perknh on November 02, 2014, 11:52:28 am
Probably the best answer to your question (If you mean "distros" instead of "OSes") would be .. "not a lot, under the skin Linux is Linux".

Yup, that's what I meant!  I'll fix the title to this thread now.

Quote
The "shortest" answer would be - "only one way to find out..."
(everything anyone else tells you is just an opinion) -- PCNetSpec

Yes, they are opinions, but I consider all the opinions presented at this point in this thread to be expert opinions.  All who have shared their opinions here know a lot about Linux, and all have had personal experience with openSUSE.  You can't get better opinions than these.  :)
 
And, from what I'm gathering, here in Peppermint forum and from YouTube, openSUSE wasn't nearly as good a few years back as it is today.  I hear the package manager still is a little dotty, but if I can manage to install Synaptic Package Manager, I should be okay.  Our needs here are quite minimal.  We only surf the web, read some news, send some email, watch a little YouTube, and use Skype every once in a while -- that's about it for us.

It sounds strange, but we don't use the internal drive much on this computer.  We just run Peppermint on a drive that is attached externally.  We just need to have something on that internal drive.  Lubuntu was great, but that lack of automatic updating some of us are experiencing vexes the heck out of me.

Thank you everyone for the great feedback.  I now know a lot more of what I'll be getting into at openSUSE when I decide to download and install openSUSE to my computer's internal hard drive.

Peppermint forum rocks!  ;)

perknh






 



Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: rjm65 on November 02, 2014, 01:15:15 pm
I tried a ton of distros when I was looking for one that worked on an old IBM laptop I found PCLinuxOS very stable, and I am not sure what his distro is based upon however it was quite different then the ubuntu distros for sure but it was incredibly Stable on that IBM and the guy used the machine for about 7 months until the screen died on it...  He gave me the laptop for parts and I still have it on the drive...  From what I understand PCLinux os is a rolling distro but I am not sure if it is debian or redhat or even something else it is based upon...  maybe someone else will know...  but if you are looking for a solid distro for your internal drive give that one a shot...  it is very lightweight and they have an LXDE version of it, they also have a KDE and Mint version of it also....   
Minimum Ram for KDE is 1 gig, for mate it is 512 megs  and for LXDE it is 384 megs...  I was able to get the LXDE to boot up using only about 75 megs of ram to get to the desktop after tweaking it out and removing stuff that was not used like bluetooth and printer and scanner stuff they had running at startup.... 
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: PCNetSpec on November 02, 2014, 01:44:15 pm
I know perknh said he was going to change the topic title, but I'm pretty sure he didn't change it to:-

What Makes PCLinuxOS Different From Other Distros?

C:-)  >:D C:-)
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: perknh on November 02, 2014, 02:06:18 pm
Hello rjm65,

My understanding is that Tumbleweed is a openSUSE project which provide rolling release versions of openSUSE.  I believe also that tomorrow -- and don't hold me to this -- LXDE is going to be added to openSUSE's lineup of openSUSE desktop enviroments -- along with KDE and Gnome.

My computer does have 6 GBs of RAM.  My processor however has only 2.4 GHz of power.

I've never tried openSUSE.  But, from what I can gather, it's getting better and better all of the time.  This is why I think PCNetSpec and VinDSL had less positive experiences with openSUSE than dsplayname.

According to DistroWatch, PCLinuxOS is a fork of Mandriva, but I know very little about Mandriva. 

Good hearing from you.  ;)

Thank you,

perknh
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: rjm65 on November 02, 2014, 02:41:39 pm
I believe mandriva is what is left of the old mandrake but don't quote me on that...  :P
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: perknh on November 07, 2014, 01:23:03 pm
An update:

I've tried to install the KDE version of OpenSUSE two times.  I've had absolutely no luck getting it to boot. 

Well, I was warned that I might run into difficulties.  I never imagined, however, that I wouldn't even be able to install the distro! :-\ 

I have no problem installing and running Peppermint, any of the Ubuntus, Manjaro, Crunchbang, or SparkyLinux.  I've been looking at the Cuban distribution called Nova with the Guano desktop.  (Yep, I promise I'm not making these names up!)  And I've also been looking at Sabayon from Italy too -- a Gentoo-based distribution.

Right now I have Ubuntu installed internal my internal drive -- with Amazon removed, and online search results turned off.  Peppermint is installed on my external hard drive.

Just wanted you folks to know that my experiment with OpenSUSE went belly up.

My experiment may have been short-lived, but I thank all of you for all of your insights concerning OpenSUSE.  ;) 



Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: rjm65 on November 07, 2014, 02:09:11 pm
So sorry to hear about your troubles with that distro...  It may be your machine just is finicky when it comes to linux like a few of mine are...   :P
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: AndyInMokum on November 07, 2014, 02:14:27 pm
Oh that's a shame  :'(  However, you can't draw an opinion until you try.  I also had no luck with OpenSuse KDE.  I found the installation a drag.  I took that as an omen of things to come and gave up.  I've still got a soft spot for Crunchbang though.  I'm seriously thinking about dual booting it with Peppermint Five.  There's just something about it.  Maybe its because its another small distro with a big friendly following.  I like to think of it as Debian made sexy.

I had a look at GhostBSD 4.0 in a VM.  Its a very pleasant surprise.  It is really a very polite distro that is showing a lot of promise.  I presume the BSDs are called distros  :-\. The Maté desktop is nice and clean and very user friendly.  I like the way it offers you three different modes of Maté at boot up.  It comes with a nice selection of software too.   If I had an old machine lying around, I would seriously consider GhostBSB as an installation candidate - just for something different and fun  ;D!!
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: perknh on November 07, 2014, 02:59:37 pm
So sorry to hear about your troubles with that distro...  It may be your machine just is finicky when it comes to linux like a few of mine are...   :P

Yep, that's exactly what I think my problem was -- a finicky computer.  Well said, rjm65!  ;)

And, AndyInMokum, I forgot to mention it, but I did look at Porteus again -- the Maté and the LXDE versions.  When I went to install Porteus to my hard drive, a notification popped up telling me I didn't have enough space, but I've got loads of space with a 500 gb hard drive. 

Porteus is still the most lightening fast distro I've ever seen.  How I wish Porteus had a simple install icon like Peppermint's DE.

Quote
I presume the BSDs are called distros  :-\.
-- AndyInMokum

AndyInMokum, I've never tried any of the BSDs, but I believe they are called distributions too.  I've heard BSD described as Unix-like.  I'll read about GhostBSB now.  Whenever a distro is mentioned in Peppermint forum, I try to read about it.

Thank you both,

perknh
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: AndyInMokum on November 07, 2014, 03:35:31 pm
Thanks for reminding me about Porteus.  Your right about it being quick - warp speed all the way baby :o!!!!  I've got a spare 16GB thumb drive doing nothing.  I'll sling Porteus 3.0 Maté on it.  I had 2.1 before and it was a really very nice after it was set up - rock solid.  The Slackware way can be a little painful, but it produces a nice end product.  The Porteus build centre is really very cool.  Again, thanks for reminding me  ;).
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: perknh on November 07, 2014, 06:18:07 pm
Thanks for reminding me about Porteus.  Your right about it being quick - warp speed all the way baby :o!!!! 

You're certainly welcome.  It's one of the most interesting distros I've ever seen.  And thank you AndyInMokum for introducing me to Porteus many months ago.  ;) 

Here's the link to the Porteus build center.  Their home page is down.

http://build.porteus.org/ (http://build.porteus.org/)
Title: Re: What Makes openSuse Different From Other Distros? (SOLVED)
Post by: AndyInMokum on November 07, 2014, 10:54:41 pm
Hi perknh, thanks for the link.  I've made a nice custom Porteus 3.0.1 ISO with the Maté desktop and Google Chrome.  Now to burn it to a CD boot it up and extract the ISO and install it to the thumb drive.  A weird around the houses way of doing things but its simple to follow and it works. Then its time to practice some compiling  ;).