Choose style:

Author Topic: When do we say its enough?  (Read 483 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pin

  • Trusted User
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1837
  • Karma: 258
    • View Profile
When do we say its enough?
« on: October 20, 2019, 02:38:04 am »
Honest question here  :(
How far are we (Linux users) willing to go?
This time I think it goes too far, https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=systemd-homed
Or, a longer one here, https://hackaday.com/2019/10/16/pack-your-bags-systemd-is-taking-you-to-a-new-home/

Coming soon to your system:'(

This time it went to far.  >:(

Online VinDSL

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5411
  • Karma: 951
  • Peppermint Mod
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Developmental Builds
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2019, 02:58:20 am »
BSD is looking better, all the time   8)








Offline pin

  • Trusted User
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1837
  • Karma: 258
    • View Profile
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2019, 03:47:25 am »
Yes and no.
Yes, for the moment. But, if/when software is designed with systemd in mind it will become difficult to port it over.
So, the crap will eventually hit the fan!  :'(

Looking at Void for example. They had to implement elogind (drop-in replacement for systemd-logind) because ConsoleKit2 is no longer maintained.
On NetBSD I just got rid of it all and use the mount command whenever I need to attach an external device. Also, as a consequence, there is no trash bin on the file manager. Oh well, who cares... the rm command still works.  8)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 03:49:36 am by pin »

Offline Johan

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Karma: 13
  • New Forum User
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2019, 05:04:14 am »
BSD is looking better, all the time   8)

Or MX? I understand that systemd is a bad thing? I'm just a user and don't understand what all the fuss is about. Can you explain?
Once Peppermint, always Peppermint.

Online VinDSL

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5411
  • Karma: 951
  • Peppermint Mod
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Developmental Builds
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2019, 10:58:40 am »
Oh well, who cares... the rm command still works.  8)

Bwahahahahaha :))



Online VinDSL

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5411
  • Karma: 951
  • Peppermint Mod
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Developmental Builds
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2019, 11:10:00 am »
BSD is looking better, all the time   8)

Or MX? I understand that systemd is a bad thing? I'm just a user and don't understand what all the fuss is about. Can you explain?

When Al Gore invented the Internet, I cut my web teeth on BSD. IMO, there's BSD, then... there's everything else.

If I could find BSD hosting at a reasonable price, I'd be using it, but I settled for a CentOS VPS server (currently).

Pin's second (Hackaday) link does a fine job of explaining his 'went to far' comment. Read the comments too.  ;)

Online VinDSL

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5411
  • Karma: 951
  • Peppermint Mod
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Developmental Builds
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2019, 01:41:41 pm »
Yes and no.
Yes, for the moment. But, if/when software is designed with systemd in mind it will become difficult to port it over.
So, the crap will eventually hit the fan!  :'(

Heh. Now, you're in my head, Pin  ;D

You got me thinking about what I actually do with computers. It hasn't really changed, for me, in all these years.

I'm sitting here on workspace 1, looking at 4 displays.
  • Browser
  • Browser
  • Email client
  • Podcast client
On workspace 2:
  • Bot
  • Bot
  • Bot
  • Empty (misc. usage)
My needs are very simple.

I think BSD would work fine - I ran it on my desktop a few years ago - but, I prefer hanging with Peppermint.

I think I'll just continue to ignore systemd until it's all up in my mitt ...   ;)

Offline clatterfordslim

  • Trusted User
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 292
  • Karma: 33
  • New Forum User
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10, Nine Respin 2
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2019, 02:26:15 pm »
Weird that all this is going to happen, whilst Microsoft are ditching passwords altogether. I'm so glad that Linux does not rely on a cloud based system to save our passwords on.

Link to Insiders about Microsoft Passwords
https://tinyurl.com/y2swdea2

I am intrigued and quite impressed of us being able to have our home folders on a USB drive, to be able to plug into any other Linux system, but again we would all and especially maintainers PCNetSpec will have to re-learn when writing new versions of Pep of how to make sure all this is implemented properly. When Systemd first came out I can remember a cross vote of lovers and haters, this still applies today. Why try to fix something that ain't broke in the first place? Question springs to mind.  
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 02:30:45 pm by clatterfordslim »
Not only is Peppermint an addictive OS to use.
But so is this Forum :)

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 26082
  • Karma: 2842
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2019, 07:48:23 pm »
Whilst I'm usually no fan of systemd for many reasons (and I'll probably end up hating the implementation .. specially if done by LP via systemd), this particular area is something that actually COULD do with a little work and truly portable logins/home folders actually peaks my interest (if it can be done securely).
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline 151tom

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: 10
  • New Forum User
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10 (64 Bit)
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2019, 08:06:57 pm »
Not happy with Linux?  You are entitled to a full refund of the purchase price!


Offline pin

  • Trusted User
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1837
  • Karma: 258
    • View Profile
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2019, 12:34:13 am »
Yes, I see the point of  the improvment, I've listen to the talk and some of it sounds good.
Still,... baking another function into systemd and push it down your throat doesn't feel like the correct way to do it.

After all is LP not LT doing it ;)

Quote
Not happy with Linux?  You are entitled to a full refund of the purchase price!
:D
Although, I think you got it wrong. Its not Linux, I still can use the kernel.
(sorry for not being clear enough. I should have written GNU/Linux in my first post)  ::)

Actually, the kernel itself has become more portabel.  You no longer need gcc to compile it, it has ben sucessfully built with clang a few weeks ago.
This means that if, I install Alpine Linux and build the kernel with clang, I'll be running Linux and no longer GNU/Linux. No, there's no GlibC or GNU-core-utils either.

You see, there're always ways out of it.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 12:46:33 am by pin »

Offline 151tom

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: 10
  • New Forum User
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10 (64 Bit)
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2019, 07:48:04 am »
Quote
Not happy with Linux?  You are entitled to a full refund of the purchase price!

Although, I think you got it wrong. Its not Linux,

Very possible.

I just install and use Linux OOTB and for the most have zero complaints.

I read all about users unhappiness with systemd although I don't understand what the issue is with systemd.

I just use Linux as it comes OOTB.

I guess I look at things different than most when something is free to use at zero cost how can one complain. ??? :-\

Offline pin

  • Trusted User
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1837
  • Karma: 258
    • View Profile
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2019, 08:06:04 am »
I could try to explain the reason why, but is it worthy?
Anyway,... I don't really like systemd, but put it this way. Its not so much systemd itself, but what comes with it.

Its taking away choice, that's the major issue.
Soon every Desktop Environment (DE) will be so tightly integrated that you can not use it on a non-systemd install. Its killing portability and that's what I dislike the most.

Would you say you're running Gentoo if you buy and use a chromebook? ChromeOS is actually not much more than packaged Gentoo.
Unfortunately, most Linux distros are becoming a systemd packaged OS, that's another thing I don't like.

Again, use systemd by all means but let's not force it on everyone by making fundamental software depending on it, that's all. Killing freedom of choice shouldn't be what Linux is about, or?!?

Offline 151tom

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
  • Karma: 10
  • New Forum User
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10 (64 Bit)
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2019, 10:34:36 am »
Again, use systemd by all means but let's not force it on everyone by making fundamental software depending on it, that's all. Killing freedom of choice shouldn't be what Linux is about, or?!?
Unfortunately we have no choice over what the developers do and it's a bummer.

There are a few Linux distros that are systemd free at the moment although how long those few choices will remain who knows.

There are a lot of things I don't like about the new Linux releases.

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 26082
  • Karma: 2842
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10
Re: When do we say its enough?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2019, 10:46:23 am »
Yes, I see the point of  the improvment, I've listen to the talk and some of it sounds good.
Still,... baking another function into systemd and push it down your throat doesn't feel like the correct way to do it.

Agreed, I'm not an 'integrated and indivisible' systemd fan and I'd much prefer it to be more 'standalone' .. but if systemd is already there, why not use it.....
(it's one of those chicken and egg/catch 22 situations)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 10:48:59 am by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec