Author Topic: LXDE future? [SOLVED]  (Read 4831 times)

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2019, 10:45:31 am »
Notice I never said Lubuntu, cause they have a different mind set altogether.  ;D

Well they used to have, but haven't you noticed that the Lubuntu ISO has very nearly doubled in size between 16.04 and 19.04
(now being the same size as Xubuntu 19.04, and considerably larger than Xubuntu 18.04)

16.04 = 840MB
19.04 = 1.5GB
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Offline clatterfordslim

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2019, 10:51:58 am »
Well they used to have, but haven't you noticed that the Lubuntu ISO has very nearly doubled in size between 16.04 and 19.04
(now being the same size as Xubuntu 19.04, and considerably larger than Xubuntu 18.04)

16.04 = 840MB
19.04 = 1.5GB


So maybe I should say, that Lubuntu, will probably be in the mix for the DVD 4.7 size of ISO. ;D Could added security be the key to the size increase, in the Kernel? But then again the last Kernel I looked at only came in at 70MB and that was in 2011, though cannot find out how big the new Kernel 5.0 is.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 11:03:24 am by clatterfordslim »
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2019, 12:17:28 pm »
No.

16.04 saw Lubuntu @ 840MB and Xubuntu @ 1.2GB

18.04 saw Lubuntu (still LXDE) @ 1.0GB and Xubuntu @ 1.3GB

18.10 saw Lubuntu (now LXQt) @ 1.6GB and Xubuntu @ 1.4GB

19.04 sees Lubuntu (LXQt) @ 1.5GB and Xubuntu @ 1.5GB

So though you saw a steady growth in the size of Xubuntu it was fairly slow and consistent .. Lubuntu on the other hand jumped in size MASSIVELY as they switched to LXQt
(they both have the same kernel, so that's not it)

What changed was Gtk --> Qt .. and Ubiquity --> Calamares.



Sources:
http://gb.cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases
and
http://gb.cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 01:05:05 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline az2020

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2019, 09:35:09 pm »


Quote
It's just a budget Toshiba, two years old, integrated graphics. I upgraded the ram to 8gig.

That's more than enough to run Peppermint on. I run "old school" hardware only with a max RAM of 3GB and everything works perfectly, day after day.

I agree, I'm sure it will be fine. It's in the same range as Lubuntu which runs fine on my laptop. If I wait for Peppermint 10, then I'll keep playing with Mint Mate and MX 18.

FYI: I moved to MX Linux 18.2 (from Lubuntu). I was going to wait until Peppermint 10, and keep playing with both. But, I figured it would be a "grass is always greener" thing no matter which I chose. So, I'm going to use MX at least till Peppermint 10 is released. Maybe get 6 months on MX, then 6 months on Peppermint. It would be good to have more experience with more distros (after 4-5 years on Lubuntu.).

I really like MX. It's fast and clean, but polished too. I had a post-install GRUB/UEFI problem. I think it's specific to my computer's firmware. I got good support (as I'm sure I would here). MX doesn't have as many apps in their repository as Ubuntu. But, it has everything I need. It has a cool backup-as-ISO tool. (You can take a snapshot of your home directory and boot that. I haven't used it yet. It sounds good.).

So, Peppermint eventually. A few months probably. I'll have a better perspective than just coming to it from Lubuntu.


Offline clatterfordslim

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2019, 11:53:07 pm »
No.

16.04 saw Lubuntu @ 840MB and Xubuntu @ 1.2GB

18.04 saw Lubuntu (still LXDE) @ 1.0GB and Xubuntu @ 1.3GB

18.10 saw Lubuntu (now LXQt) @ 1.6GB and Xubuntu @ 1.4GB

19.04 sees Lubuntu (LXQt) @ 1.5GB and Xubuntu @ 1.5GB

So though you saw a steady growth in the size of Xubuntu it was fairly slow and consistent .. Lubuntu on the other hand jumped in size MASSIVELY as they switched to LXQt
(they both have the same kernel, so that's not it)

What changed was Gtk --> Qt .. and Ubiquity --> Calamares.



Sources:
http://gb.cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases
and
http://gb.cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases

 :o Just goes to show even the tiniest of changes, can impact the overall size and I thought that Lxqt was lighter? But also Calamares installer must be pretty big too? I'm not a fan of the Calamares, cause you have to change twice, which hard drive you want the grub image to write to, or partition and many a time I have made that mistake, where it's over written the wrong drive.  :(
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2019, 01:23:18 am »
I really like MX. It's fast and clean, but polished too.

I'll not argue with that, as a few others have said before me "If Peppermint ceased to exist, my next choice would highly likely be MX" :)

[EDIT]

In reality if Peppermint ceased to exist, I'd just make Spearmint/DoubleMint :)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 01:25:38 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline clatterfordslim

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2019, 01:40:20 am »
I really like MX. It's fast and clean, but polished too.

I'll not argue with that, as a few others have said before me "If Peppermint ceased to exist, my next choice would highly likely be MX" :)

[EDIT]

In reality if Peppermint ceased to exist, I'd just make Spearmint/DoubleMint :)

I have used MX in the past also and I can without a doubt say, that it is my no2 Distro. Wasn't Garth meant to make  Spearmint? ;D
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 01:41:59 am by clatterfordslim »
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2019, 01:44:43 am »
Well he said so, but I don't think he was ever actually serious.

Or maybe he just knew his Arch-mint simply wouldn't stack up :))
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Offline az2020

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #68 on: January 21, 2020, 01:40:45 pm »
FYI: I moved to MX Linux 18.2 (from Lubuntu). I was going to wait until Peppermint 10, and keep playing with both. But, I figured it would be a "grass is always greener" thing no matter which I chose. So, I'm going to use MX at least till Peppermint 10 is released. Maybe get 6 months on MX, then 6 months on Peppermint. It would be good to have more experience with more distros (after 4-5 years on Lubuntu.).

...

So, Peppermint eventually. A few months probably. I'll have a better perspective than just coming to it from Lubuntu.

FYI: I have a new laptop and intend to switch to Peppermint 10 from MX Linux 18.2. (Refresher: Last April I was on Lubuntu, reached the point that I had to finally install the LXQT version. That felt different enough that I thought I might as well do something truly different. I had narrowed my choices to Peppermint or MX. Peppermint 9 was about to be superseded by 10. instead of waiting, I decide to get started with MX. I've liked MX very much. But, the new laptop creates the opportunity to give Peppermint an equal chance.)

The new laptop is an Acer Aspire 5 with AMD Ryzen 3 3200u (A515-43-R19L, $320 USD on Amazon). I've read a few people successfully installed Linux. (The only thing people had trouble with is that secure boot won't remain disabled unless a bios password is set.).

That's a lot of power for the money. The CPU in the Toshiba Satellite C55-B I'm using now (and did the distro comparisons earlier in this thread) is benchmarked "965." The Ryzen 3 is "4570." So, I have no reason to be oriented toward lightweight distros. But, I've never been a big eye-candy person. I'd rather run leaner even if I don't have to.

I may redo the distro comparisons, but this time installing to the computer. (Either the new Acer, or the old Toshiba).  [EDIT: new distro comparisons posted here.]

I'll post something when I'm officially a Pepperminter.  (I've definitely liked MX 18.2. If I hadn't been torn between it and Peppermint, I probably would never change. Just recently I was thinking how I never fulfilled my pledge to use Peppermint. It seemed like a good time to get a new laptop (instead of waiting for my budget Toshiba to die, and then be in a hurry to pick a new one). That Ryzen 3 looked like a good value. Now seemed like a good time.

 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 08:55:03 pm by az2020 »

Offline spence

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2020, 08:35:04 am »
This thread reminds me how much of diving deep into 'haxoring" linux is beyond my grasp @az2020, nevermind being outside of my level of interest and patience. I have never successfully deployed wicd and always end up reverting to peppermintOS's default network manager. That said, this little ASUS mini lappie strains under even light pressure, so is in need of my sitting down to haxor (as @VinDSL puts it) to give it some room to breathe. Might need to pick @pin's mind a bit on that too ;)

apparmor, bluez, btrfs-tools, cups, flatpak, guvcview, libflatpak0, nemo-dropbox, rsync, samba, smd, snapd, transmission-gtk, are on my list of immediate purges after fresh installs. I pondered purging synaptic as I tend not to install much, but that wants to take out mintupdate. Now I need to remind myself which installers we have only because they accommodate flatpaks and snaps, so I can remove them...

This thread also reminds me of @PCNetSpec's superhuman recall on the fly and the ways he quickly grasped where peppermintOS may need to go in the future.


 :'(
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 09:22:28 am by spence »
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Offline az2020

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2020, 10:07:28 am »
apparmor, btrfs, flatpack, rsync, smb, snapd, and a few other things that I can't recollect while not fully caffeinated, are on my list of immediate purges after fresh installs.

I wish it was a standard among distros to have a "minimal" app (a screen) offering all the things you might disable/uninstall/tweak for a smaller/faster installation. Either a page that lists everything a person might do, or actually does it for you (when you checkmark an option). Kind of like, "if we had a low-resource ISO version of our distro, this is what it would be." A post-install "how to get there."

When I ran Windows, the first thing I did was disable a lot of things (a lot of graphical eye-candy, shadows, etc.). There was a "tweaks" page I found where someone showed every performance improvement they could think of (or had found). Each item explained the possible consequences of that tweak, so you could choose what to do, or anticipate what to expect.

I think there are a lot of people who want less eye-candy/cruft. Linux is often the "go to" OS for older computers, get more life out of them. It's kind of surprising "minimal" isn't a focus of *every* distro (as a "how to get there" map).

FWIW: I'm almost done with my distro comparison. Maybe tomorrow I'll post what I have. I've compared more this time. And, I've compared them them installed on real hardware, and in virtual (like last time). I intended to compare them on real hardware because I wanted to test this laptop, and see which distros install on it. But, the results were much different than in a VM. I guess due to real hardware drivers compared to an idealized virtual environment. So, I'm installing the distros both ways It's interesting to see how mem usage is different between real hardware and virtual.

Offline spence

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2020, 10:25:25 am »
As the peppermint devs schooled me back in 2010 @az2020, one can't compare the liveUSB nor the VM versions of any disto against/with their installed versions. @PCNetSpec had coded an option for a minimal install via liveUSB several releases ago now. It's there on the installation options, but he'd never got around to whittling the options down.

I have a half dozen spare partitions on my desktop computer so I can install anything I am considering. I always cast a side eye in the general direction of the many "youtube distro reviewers" who base their "findings" on a liveUSB or VM test run...

That said, it's all a matter of time and resources available to any distribution's development team. In my decade with peppermintOS and time spent testing other linux distros, it seems evident that the vast majority of folks want "all the shiny things" and don't have the competence, nor the patience to install the bits that they think are missing from the distro they've just installed.

ps: I am thinking this thread doesn't need your [SOLVED] designation as it's an ongoing discussion.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 10:27:47 am by spence »
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Offline az2020

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2020, 12:07:09 pm »
ps: I am thinking this thread doesn't need your [SOLVED] designation as it's an ongoing discussion. [/color]

I think things went wrong back around Reply #5. That's where the original topic was "solved," and I began going into a different topic. (Although, Reply #7 is related to the original topic.).

Maybe a moderator could move the latter part of #5, all of #6, and #8 and beyond to a new thread ("az2020's Distro SpeedDating."). Otherwise I'll start a new thread for this new comparison. It fits with most of this thread. But, I should probably start a new one since this was all off-topic from the start.

EDIT: I posted the new mem-use comparisons to a new thread.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 08:51:53 pm by az2020 »

Offline spence

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2020, 10:36:46 pm »
 ;)

no need to remove anything, none of it reads wrong in my opinion @az2020... my nudge was more about this not really being an issue that needs to be [SOLVED] but is a rather a nice free wheeling discussion.... what you are doing is impressive... just keep on keeping on... so here's another nudge to remove [SOLVED]

 8)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 10:43:27 pm by spence »
spence
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Do not despair, grasshopper...
    with patience all will be revealed...
       Through pain, enlightenment will come.