Author Topic: LXDE future? [SOLVED]  (Read 4876 times)

Offline az2020

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LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« on: April 22, 2019, 08:22:56 pm »
I've used Lubuntu for a few years. As you may know, it's moving (has moved) to LXQt desktop. I really like LXDE, and am considering whether this is a good time to change distros.

I like everything I see here, especially the philosophy. 

I only have one concern, and I don't know how to ask it. I've read that LXDE is dependent on GTK-2, and that may be unsustainable (library incompatibilities). Something like that. I was having frequent desktop freezing/crashing which, if I recall correctly, had something to do with that.

So, are there any issues with Peppermint's use of LXDE as a desktop. Are you guys having any concerns with it's future? (I don't mean to suggest you should. I don't know anything about, but got the impression there has been some uncertainty about where things are going. And, as I said, I lived with some instability with my desktop for awhile. I don't want jump back into that.).

[NOTE TO MODERATOR: I see a banner saying I'm new and this post will be held until approved. I my post is better answered via PM or email, feel free to do so.]
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 08:45:39 pm by az2020 »

Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: LXDE future?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2019, 01:53:20 am »
Hi az2020,

Actually our desktop does not use LXDE. It is a hybrid put together with various components (I guess most of them come from XFCE). Almost nothing from LXDE remains, so do not worry about it.  ;)

Regards,

-- Slim
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Re: LXDE future?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2019, 02:14:41 am »
Welcome aboard, Mark.

As Slim said, the only components we still use in Peppermint's LXDE/Xfce mix are lxappearance and lxsession, which are still rock solid, stable, and don't require new features.

If these LXDE components aren't available in the 20.04 Ubu repos, we could always add lxappearance and lxsession to the Peppermint repo.

Oddly enough, Peppermint could be the last distro still using LXDE components, and staying light because of it.

Not to worry...  ;)

Online VinDSL

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Re: LXDE future?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2019, 02:21:49 am »
[NOTE TO MODERATOR: I see a banner saying I'm new and this post will be held until approved. I my post is better answered via PM or email, feel free to do so.]

No problem. We need to do that, in order to keep the spambots at bay - that's all.




Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: LXDE future?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2019, 04:58:11 am »
As others have said we're not really an LXDE distro, although
Code: [Select]
envmay suggest we are because we use lxsession as the session manager .. and most people might consider the session manager the defining component when describing a 'desktop environment'

In truth we're now probably more Xfce than any other DE, but it'd be hard to describe us as Xfce too .. Peppermint is a blending of components from other DE's simply because we feel no single DE has a monopoly on 'the best' components, so we 'cherry pick'.

The demise of LXDE can be dealt with (as suggested by the others)  in either of two ways

a) We could switch from lxappearance and lxsession to components from elsewhere (possibly Xfce).

or

b) (if/when necessary) We could fork those two remaining LXDE components and support them ourselves.

At the moment it's difficult to make any decision because we don't know what the plans are upstream .. but we've an eye on both possibilities :)
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Offline az2020

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Re: LXDE future?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2019, 10:12:59 am »
Thanks for the clarifications. Peppermint certainly looks like LXDE to me (after using LXDE for 4-5 years).

I've downloaded a dozen distros and am playing with them. Peppermint really looks like the way to go if I want to continue with my LXDE Lubuntu experience. It's definitely the closest to that. That would be the easy step to make.

But, I'm also consider going more austere (Puppy, or even AntiX which doesn't use systemd and boots *amazingly* fast. They're both too X'ish for me. But, maybe I should expose myself to that for awhile). Or, go more featured (KDE or Mate).

So, I'm going to take some time to expose myself to those choices. If I were in a hurry, Peppermint definitely looks like the safe choice for someone who's been on Lubuntu and would like to continue the pre-LXQt experience.

Offline alynur

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Re: LXDE future?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2019, 10:47:31 am »
Thanks for the clarifications. Peppermint certainly looks like LXDE to me (after using LXDE for 4-5 years).

I've downloaded a dozen distros and am playing with them. Peppermint really looks like the way to go if I want to continue with my LXDE Lubuntu experience. It's definitely the closest to that. That would be the easy step to make.

But, I'm also consider going more austere (Puppy, or even AntiX which doesn't use systemd and boots *amazingly* fast. They're both too X'ish for me. But, maybe I should expose myself to that for awhile). Or, go more featured (KDE or Mate).

So, I'm going to take some time to expose myself to those choices. If I were in a hurry, Peppermint definitely looks like the safe choice for someone who's been on Lubuntu and would like to continue the pre-LXQt experience.

As with all things Peppermint, it's your choice.
What was I thinking?

Offline az2020

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Re: LXDE future?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2019, 08:43:51 pm »
BTW:  I got the notion LXDE is the desktop from something I read. I just remembered where I read it:

"... Peppermint uses a default desktop that is based on LXDE ..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppermint_Linux_OS#Nomenclature

I understood "based" to mean more than it does.

I'm narrowing my choices down to Mint MATE or Peppermint. Based upon Mint's past releases, it sounds like a new release will occur in 2-3 months.  Does Peppermint have anything coming in that timeframe too?

I know nothing about this topic. But, I'm really impressed by AntiX Linux's not using systemd. That thing boots amazingly fast. (It's worth downloading just to stun people at your next party.). I'm wondering why the resource-conscious distros (Peppermint, Sparky, Puppy) don't do that. I've read Devuan does it. That would be nice if this became a trend. (Again, without knowing anything about it. Maybe there's a downside.).

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Re: LXDE future?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2019, 09:08:54 pm »
I'm really impressed by AntiX Linux's not using systemd. That thing boots amazingly fast. (It's worth downloading just to stun people at your next party.).

How fast, do you reckon?




Offline pin

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Re: LXDE future?
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2019, 09:18:16 pm »
BTW:  I got the notion LXDE is the desktop from something I read. I just remembered where I read it:

"... Peppermint uses a default desktop that is based on LXDE ..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppermint_Linux_OS#Nomenclature

I understood "based" to mean more than it does.

I'm narrowing my choices down to Mint MATE or Peppermint. Based upon Mint's past releases, it sounds like a new release will occur in 2-3 months.  Does Peppermint have anything coming in that timeframe too?

I know nothing about this topic. But, I'm really impressed by AntiX Linux's not using systemd. That thing boots amazingly fast. (It's worth downloading just to stun people at your next party.). I'm wondering why the resource-conscious distros (Peppermint, Sparky, Puppy) don't do that. I've read Devuan does it. That would be nice if this became a trend. (Again, without knowing anything about it. Maybe there's a downside.).

All of those and Slackware, use SysV as init. Unfortunately, as I would prefer runit or even OpenRC over it. Also, I would also check if they are using elogind or not. Personaly, I don't like elogind either  ;)
But, hey... this is probably way out of topic here  :)

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2019, 03:06:47 am »
Yes Peppermint 10 will be coming in a month or so.
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: LXDE future?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2019, 03:19:20 am »
I know nothing about this topic. But, I'm really impressed by AntiX Linux's not using systemd. That thing boots amazingly fast. (It's worth downloading just to stun people at your next party.). I'm wondering why the resource-conscious distros (Peppermint, Sparky, Puppy) don't do that. I've read Devuan does it. That would be nice if this became a trend. (Again, without knowing anything about it. Maybe there's a downside.).

Firstly, systemd doesn't in itself slow a boot process (in fact it can speed things up), let's be clear here I'm no fan of systemd but not because of boot times, more because of feature creep, its breaking of the Unix 'KISS' philosophy, non human-readable logging, and it now being WAY more than an simple init system.

As for us not being as fast or light as Antix, well it's a matter of of goals and ethos .. Peppermint can be made to boot a LOT faster if you're willing to forego services and ease of use, but lightness isn't our main goal, our goal is to provide a feature rich system OOTB that is ALSO as light as we can make it within those parameters .. so I suppose we're more about 'efficiency' of a given feature set rather than overall lightness.

I don't think ANY distro has the goal of being as light as possible at all cost .. otherwise you'd end up with a system that boots a trimmed kernel specific to your hardware and nothing else .. it'd boot really quickly but then would be useless.

You'd have to agree that it would be possible for any distro to be 'lighter' if they ditched a graphical desktop entirely and that would suit some people, but most distros decide what they want to offer and only THEN decide how to stay as light as possible whilst still achieving those goals (within their team resources limits). I don't want people to choose Peppermint based solely on resource footprint (or they may be disillusioned), I'd hope they choose us for a combination of ethos, community, OOTB feature set, customisability, and THEN resource efficiency :)

Any distro is a balancing act, but they all have slightly differing starting goals and methods for achieving them .. personally I think you're on the right track, both Mint MATE and Peppermint are both feature rich but efficient within those parameters. At the end of the day choose your OWN parameters, then find a distro that best aligns with them, the beauty of Linux is there usually is one :)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 04:02:14 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline az2020

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Re: LXDE future?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2019, 11:07:31 am »
I'm really impressed by AntiX Linux's not using systemd. That thing boots amazingly fast. (It's worth downloading just to stun people at your next party.).

How fast, do you reckon?

Compared to what I'm used to, it feels like a solid-state drive is installed. Or, it reminds me of Linux back in 1998. To me, it felt like "a blast from the past."

I just booted the following install media on USB flash sticks. I think they're all USB 2.0. (I should boot the .iso image from QEMU or VirtualBox. I'm not setup for that at the moment.).

AntiX 17:       20 seconds
Peppermint 9.2: 50 seconds
Puppy 8.0:      64 seconds


When I booted Peppermint, I realized maybe I'm comparing apples/oranges since AntiX is small in other ways than replacing systemd. That's why I booted Puppy. I thought that would be a better comparison. But, that took even longer.


EDIT: For what it's worth, I set those three up as QEMU sessions. Pretty much the same results, however it seemed like Peppermint took 15 seconds (after pressing enter on the GRUB "try it before installing" item) to start doing something. That seemed different compared to booting from the USB flash sticks.

AntiX 17:       21 seconds
Peppermint 9.2: 68 seconds
Puppy 8.0:      57 seconds


The only reason I mentioned AntiX (no-systemd) is that it would be impressive if Peppermint booted fast like that. There's a real "wow" factor involved in that. (I don't know how much is due to AntiX being slimmed down in other ways. Or, if there would be undesirable things associated with whatever is being used instead of systemd. I was just thinking of the wow factor. The distinguishing nature of that kind of boot speed.).
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 11:47:02 am by az2020 »

Offline spence

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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2019, 12:44:27 pm »
Still waiting on VinDSL's response here   ;)  ... my fresh triple boot install reaches grub menu at 11 seconds. Then from grub to screen in 6 seconds...

 8)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 07:57:01 am by spence »
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Re: LXDE future? [SOLVED]
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 12:49:54 pm »
Still waiting on VinDSL's response here...

Saw that one coming, eh perk?   :D

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