Author Topic: Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox  (Read 1562 times)

Online VinDSL

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5865
  • Karma: 1137
  • Team Peppermint
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Developmental Builds
Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox
« on: July 27, 2018, 07:45:24 pm »
Quote
YouTube’s new Polymer redesign has brought not only improvements to the video sharing platform, but also a new controversy in the browser world, as non-Google browsers are said to be deliberately slowed down.

LINK: https://goo.gl/X9YwBy

Offline scifidude79

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 870
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 9
Re: Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2018, 11:36:42 pm »
That's what's been up with YouTube lately. It won't work in my case. I'll stop watching videos on YouTube before I'll switch to Chrome. (or just use the mobile and PS apps)

Offline TonyBronze

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
  • Karma: 34
  • Peppermintaholic
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): 8 & 9
Re: Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2018, 01:23:56 am »
In a nutshell, it doesn't seem to be as the article describes.  Basically Google has developed a new website for Youtube, something they have been working on for a long time using the Web Components standard.  Firefox chose not to provide support for Googles Web Components standard with the result that the newly designed Youtube site has a few problems. 

Also Google hasn't just switched off the old Youtube website, it is still available for browsers that don't support the new standard but Firefox haven't incorporated the fix for the old site to be displayed.  Third party add-ons are available such as https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/youtube-classic/ to fix what Firefox hasn't done.

As Youtube is such a popular site, sooner or later someone was bound to notice that something was wrong, so Firefox released a statement blaming Google for something they could have fixed if they wanted to.

 These browsers"standards" battles have been going on since the first browser was used.  Internet Explorer used to be very bad for not complying with standards whereas Firefox used to be quite good at being compliant.  MS didn't care at the time because it had the bulk of the market share and took the stance of either like it or lump it.

Google Chrome is now the dominant force with an alleged 70% of the market share and they seem to be doing much the same as MS did in the past.  The only difference being is  what Google is doing is not closed source but is open to anyone to use if they want to.

Reddit discussions go into more detail if you want to research further.
......to infinity and beyond..............

Offline perknh

  • Trusted User
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
  • Karma: 373
  • Soy un huevo, nada más.
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10
Re: Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2018, 02:22:41 am »
YouTube froze on me yesterday afternoon in Firefox.  Because of this I brought the link to the YouTube video I'd been watching over to Chrome where I was able to run the video.  I was able to use YouTube in Firefox again after I changed my DNS to Google Public DNS (CloudFlare's DNS did not help at the time.)  This all happened to me at 4:30 in the afternoon on a Friday when the Internet in my region would have been under maximum strain.  Whatever the cause, YouTube froze on me in Firefox yesterday.  This is why VinDSL's post immediately caught my eye this morning.   

I'm now back to Firefox and am using Quad9's DNS again.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 08:17:21 am by perknh »
[T]here are a lot of people happily running Peppermint ICE which hasn't been receiving ANY updates for a while now .. and I personally would STILL consider that MUCH more secure than any version of Windows with up-to-date AV/Anti-malware ;)

--  PCNetSpec, Cornwall, Eng.  Dec 03, 2013 5:18 pm

Offline scifidude79

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 870
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 9
Re: Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2018, 05:10:28 am »
In a nutshell, it doesn't seem to be as the article describes.  Basically Google has developed a new website for Youtube, something they have been working on for a long time using the Web Components standard.  Firefox chose not to provide support for Googles Web Components standard with the result that the newly designed Youtube site has a few problems. 

Also Google hasn't just switched off the old Youtube website, it is still available for browsers that don't support the new standard but Firefox haven't incorporated the fix for the old site to be displayed.  Third party add-ons are available such as https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/youtube-classic/ to fix what Firefox hasn't done.

As Youtube is such a popular site, sooner or later someone was bound to notice that something was wrong, so Firefox released a statement blaming Google for something they could have fixed if they wanted to.

 These browsers"standards" battles have been going on since the first browser was used.  Internet Explorer used to be very bad for not complying with standards whereas Firefox used to be quite good at being compliant.  MS didn't care at the time because it had the bulk of the market share and took the stance of either like it or lump it.

Google Chrome is now the dominant force with an alleged 70% of the market share and they seem to be doing much the same as MS did in the past.  The only difference being is  what Google is doing is not closed source but is open to anyone to use if they want to.

Reddit discussions go into more detail if you want to research further.

Thanks for the explanation, Tony. Mozilla needs to get on that compliance.

Heh, "70%" of the market share. That's kind of a laugh. Android's default browser is basically Chrome, and likely reports itself as Chrome. I think Amazon's Silk browser is basically Chrome too. So, that's likely where a big chunk of those numbers come from, as many people use mobile devices for web access.

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 26452
  • Karma: 65531
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10
Re: Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2018, 07:39:17 am »
Firefox released a statement blaming Google for something they could have fixed if they wanted to.

Not sure I agree with that, it's kinda hard to pre-emptively "fix" something you don't know about about.

And what is it with Googles push for https ? .. The cynic in me wonders if it's because they'll know both ends of the tunnel

Google for some time now have been acting like they own the web and can set the standards .. if they were sticking to their early mantra of "do no evil" I'd still think a monopoly on the web is a bad thing, but "do no evil" has long since died and Google are behaving like nobody else matters. When ANY company see's its main competitors as "the little guy" who can be ignored the sector they operate in inevitably suffers simply because they "money men" take over.

Seriously if it were simply a straight choice of one's word against the other .. I'd still trust Mozilla over Google every day of the week, even though Mozilla themselves have made some ill informed and stupid decisions of late.
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline TonyBronze

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
  • Karma: 34
  • Peppermintaholic
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): 8 & 9
Re: Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2018, 09:35:22 am »
The more I read about this, the more confusing it gets! I have read that:

1) The updates to Youtube were done 12 months ago.  This article from ARS Technica is data 5/2/2017 (maybe UK 2/5/2017!) mentions the redesign  using the Polymer framework https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/youtubes-desktop-site-gets-a-material-design-makeover-asks-for-feedback/
2) Shadow DOM v0 which Firefox are moaning about being deprecated is not due to be removed until April 2019 https://www.chromestatus.com/feature/4507242028072960 and in any case is not being used by Youtube, instead they are using Polymer's Shady DOM
3) Firefox has been working on implementing Shadow Dom for a number of years so it is nothing new.  This bug report is 5 years old https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=887538 (They expect it to be enabled by default in version 63)
4) Cnet tested the download speed of Youtube in Firefox and didn't detect any noticeable delay.

I am by no means a Google fanboy and do try and get an understanding of whats going on but the claim by Firefox makes no sense to me.

Perhaps it is all just a bit of journalistic interpretation taking a comment out of context or as commented on the Twitter tweet "This is literally a Mozilla employee crying about their browser being behind the times, lmao"
......to infinity and beyond..............

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 26452
  • Karma: 65531
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10
Re: Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2018, 10:00:45 am »
I have to admit I don't understand this fully either (in fact not at all), but as I suggested, where there's a lack of clarity of information I'd trust Mozilla W-A-Y before I trusted Google.

Mozilla have (until a few daft recent decisions) been VERY open with everything they've done and have a proven track record .. Google on the other hand are super secretive, and make decisions that affect others with zero recourse.

And lately seem to see their place as the internet overlords pushing their agenda at the detriment of others. Take for example "flash", okay it sucks, but is it Googles place to decide when it should die ? (unless it's pepperflash), or 32bit again is it Google's place to make that call, or java, or ....

Google (for at least the last 10 years) have forced their agenda on everyone else by abusing their market position .. so again, where there's no way to know for sure (and I'll absolutely guarantee Google won't tell you), I'll trust Mozilla who have a proven record of openness.

Maybe I'm biased (I have recent history with Google, both personally and over their screwing Linux even though they heavily rely on it), I don't like Google and pretty much everything they stand for. I often hear "well at least we know Google are spying and underhanded", well to me just because they're open about it doesn't mean they should get a free ride.

At the end of the day I just no longer trust Google, but it's just an personal opinion .. I'm not trying to say who's "right" in this particular instance, just who I'd trust first ;)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 10:26:45 am by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline perknh

  • Trusted User
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
  • Karma: 373
  • Soy un huevo, nada más.
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10
Re: Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2018, 04:29:11 am »
I spoke with some friends last night who live in a different region of the state, and one of this couple is substituting Opera for Firefox because she's had slowness issues with YouTube on Firefox too. (She's running Peppermint 8.)

I had to call my ISP yesterday afternoon because mrs.perknh and I have now had two days of sluggishness on our computers at our house.  I know this sounds cynical but I'm wondering our experiences with YouTube and Firefox has anything to do with the throttling of speeds we were told could occur if we were to lose net neutrality in the U.S.  And we have lost net neutrality now. 

@PCNetSpec
Quote
Google for some time now have been acting like they own the web and can set the standards ..PCNetSpec

Do you feel the same way about Google Public DNS as you do about other Google services?  I've ask because Google Public DNS is a reliable where I live and it's not my ISPs DNS -- which I wouldn't trust at all.  Google Public DNS however does deviate from accepted norms by not using BIND.  It says this itself in its own FAQs.
[T]here are a lot of people happily running Peppermint ICE which hasn't been receiving ANY updates for a while now .. and I personally would STILL consider that MUCH more secure than any version of Windows with up-to-date AV/Anti-malware ;)

--  PCNetSpec, Cornwall, Eng.  Dec 03, 2013 5:18 pm

Offline TonyBronze

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
  • Karma: 34
  • Peppermintaholic
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): 8 & 9
Re: Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2018, 05:24:50 am »

@PCNetSpec
Quote
Google for some time now have been acting like they own the web and can set the standards ..PCNetSpec

Do you feel the same way about Google Public DNS as you do about other Google services?  I've ask because Google Public DNS is a reliable where I live and it's not my ISPs DNS -- which I wouldn't trust at all.  Google Public DNS however does deviate from accepted norms by not using BIND.  It says this itself in its own FAQs.

My ISP's DNS is sometimes slow and unreliable so I used Google DNS for a while.  I now use Cloudflare 1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1 as it is faster than Google.
......to infinity and beyond..............

Offline perknh

  • Trusted User
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
  • Karma: 373
  • Soy un huevo, nada más.
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 10
Re: Google Deliberately Makes YouTube Slower on Edge, Firefox
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2018, 08:45:01 am »
My ISP's DNS is sometimes slow and unreliable so I used Google DNS for a while.  I now use Cloudflare 1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1 as it is faster than Google.

I tend to go between Quad9, Cloudflare, and Google Public DNS, but, for our location, the one public DNS that has functioned the most consistently well for us has been Google's.  Right now I'm running Quad9, but when Web traffic is too bogged down, I always end up with Google.  Cloudflare works so-so for me here.  When Cloudflare's fast, it's fast, but when it's slow, we get nothing.  DNS seems to be all about location.
[T]here are a lot of people happily running Peppermint ICE which hasn't been receiving ANY updates for a while now .. and I personally would STILL consider that MUCH more secure than any version of Windows with up-to-date AV/Anti-malware ;)

--  PCNetSpec, Cornwall, Eng.  Dec 03, 2013 5:18 pm