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Author Topic: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.  (Read 3827 times)

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Offline raz

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I used the "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option in the "installation type" screen.

Turns out that instead of just replacing the WinOS partition, it actually erased ALL of my partitions and then partitioned the whole drive to its liking. I'm pretty, pretty sure that this course of action was not displayed explicitly on screen.

Recovering the lost data will be a massive PITA now.

Adding a warning on that option would be better, I think. Something along the lines of "THIS WILL DELETE ALL YOUR PARTITIONS".

Offline rjm65

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2014, 08:33:07 am »
On every ubuntu based installer I ever used it does say just that I think you mis interpreted what it said when you chose this option.
See my image below, the only difference between my Image, and what you saw was you had the side by side choice with windows up top, and the erase disk option was changed to replace windows, but there is a warning about it erasing the entire disk...  ;)

Robert
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Offline Scott

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2014, 12:41:19 pm »
Hi All,

Although I haven't run into this problem personally, there's probably some merit to it.

This problem (or a similar one) was addressed on Linux Mint Qiana V2 ISO respins.

Here's an excerpt:

Quote
Dangerously ambiguous label could lead people to mistakenly wipe their hard drive

In the installer, when other operating systems were detected, the option to wipe the hard drive was ambiguously labelled “Replace $OS and install Linux Mint”. Although this option warned about removing data, it led people to believe it would only delete partitions and data associated with the mentioned operating system.

Link to source information:
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2662

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2014, 08:01:50 pm »
I'd agree with you .. problem is the Ubiquity installer is an upstream component, so not much we can do about it.

I suppose we could add something to the release notes .. but unless people check those on the main site, they're not going to know about it.

Do you think something should be added to the release notes here:
http://peppermintos.com/release-notes/
??
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

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Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2014, 04:21:54 am »
I'd agree with you .. problem is the Ubiquity installer is an upstream component, so not much we can do about it.

Do you think something should be added to the release notes here:
http://peppermintos.com/release-notes/
??
Absolutely! Even though many, if not most, folks will not read it, at least the Peppermint team will have done something and can not be accused of not trying to help people avoid a "disaster".

Being such a user-friendly distro with a super user-friendly forum, such an action would fit much better to the Peppermint image than just sitting back and saying, "Don't blame us. It's an upstream problem." Because Noobies are quite likely to find little comfort with that, and will still blame Peppermint.

So even though there might not be much that you can do about it, there is at least something to do about it ... and therefore it should be done.
 ;)

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-- Slim
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Offline Scott

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2014, 10:29:08 am »
It's difficult for me to say what should be done when I'm not familiar with this specific distro (though the problem could be a gneral *buntu type) or the specific bug.

Additionally, the Mint information I posted previoulsy only comments about the issue being addressed not how it was addressed. Maybe someone is the forum has some experience in this area and will post on the how Mint mitigated this problem (i.e. the differences between the installer in version 1 and 2 ISOs).

There are many useful responses on this issue on the Mint blog
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2662

Here's a launchpad bug reference pulled from a response on the link above
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1265192

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2014, 10:32:26 am »
If you're SURE Mint solved the issue and edited the ubiquity installer scripts I suppose I could look through theirs.

But are you sure ? .. I mean they haven't just stuck it through and ignored it ?
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Offline Scott

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2014, 11:07:25 am »
Hi PCNetSpec,
Thanks for the response. I know nothing :).  My motivation for posting about this initially was to acknowledge the issue exists and seems to be causing a few headaches for some during installation. I know nothing more beyond that.

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2014, 11:10:38 am »
Sorry I could have phrased that better .. what I meant was it would be nice to know they didn't just ignore the issue, then I'd run off and try to work out how they did it. ;)
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

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Offline Scott

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2014, 12:09:53 pm »
@PCNetSpec.
Not a problem.

And trying to work out how the did it on my end too.

It's difficult to summerize the issue because there doesn't seem to be any one case senario. Even if I download the Mint ISO now for testing, results seem to vary depending on what's on the hard disk to begin with.


The best general caution I've learned (for myself if nothing else) so far is:

If, during installation, there is anything on the hard drive (hidden partitions, factory partitions, linux /home folders, etc.) you cannot afford to loose, use the other option during install to specifically choose installation partitions and have a backup.

If, during the installation routine, the installer seemingly offers to only upgrade or replace an OS it may remove everything on the hard drive not just your intended target. This seemed to also apply to separate /home directories in some situations as well.

Offline rjm65

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2014, 12:18:06 pm »
I know Mint did something to the light locker issue everyone seems to have in ubuntu based distros. What I can't figure out is what they did to it? Every mint 17 cinnamon I have installed so far for people who want it, has come up with light locker in the start menu area under preferences, where I go into it and turn it off... But under synaptic if you search for light locker to remove it, it finds light locker and tells you it is not installed? Weird huh, it is in preferences but not installed?   ???
Robert
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2014, 12:30:23 pm »
OK, it seems the issue was documented here:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/linuxmint/+bug/1325786

and the fix here:
https://github.com/linuxmint/ubiquity/commit/8bfc98e60cc80cefe7986774f3740a5b0530e364

I'll bring it to Kendalls attention and see if he thinks a respin is in order.
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
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Online VinDSL

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2014, 12:57:12 pm »
On every ubuntu based installer I ever used it does say just that I think you mis interpreted what it said when you chose this option.

EVERY installer I've used handles things differently.  This would include Linux et. al. , BSD et. al , OpenSolaris et. al. -- yada, yada, yada.

Choosing inappropriate installation option(s) on a populated drive can be extremely risky and destructive to any existing data.  It's like sleeping with a stranger.

I don't know how you impress this on ppl.  They used to put a 'jolly roger' on bottles of poison.  Maybe that's the answer... Seriously!

Since we're talking about Peppermint:  Personally, I ALWAYS choose the "Something else" option, and do EVERYTHING manually.  I manually partition the drive(s) using GParted, then I manually choose which_partition_does_what using the "Something else" option in Ubiquity.

IMO, that's the only 'safe' way of doing a non-destructive install of any Ubu derivative, e.g. using Ubiquity.   ;)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 09:19:57 pm by VinDSL, Reason: Typo Demon Strikes Again »

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Re: ANNOYANCE: "Replace [WinOS] with Peppermint" option is misleading.
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2014, 12:58:46 pm »
OK, it seems the issue was documented here [...]

Noted.

We must have been typing at the same time...   :D