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Author Topic: is Linux Mint Junk?(one more update)  (Read 2245 times)

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Online alynur

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is Linux Mint Junk?(one more update)
« on: January 10, 2018, 08:23:50 am »
Hi guys, I ask this question because what kind of a distribution is going to break itself whenever an update is performed? I installed Cinnamon 18.3 on one of my partitions and initially it boots up fine and looks like it could be a decent operating system. But after installing software from their Software Manager and doing a an apt update and upgrade, when I reboot I get the "welcome to emergency mode".  For anyone that is new to Linux, this would blow them away! And if you go to their help forum you get all kinds of suggestions from flashing your bios to performing more apt-get update and ugrades, which others are saying that you should never perform because there could be unstable updates and upgrades included. I know that installations can sometimes be a little buggy, as indicated by the posts under installations, but every time? I've reinstalled Mint about four times now and tried doing things a little different and managed to get as many as three good reboots but then BAM, back in emergency mode. As a representative of the Linux world to people who know nothing about Linux, they fail. I might have said screw this, I'll spend the money!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 11:38:15 am by alynur »

Offline murraymint

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2018, 08:34:26 am »
I wouldn't class it as "junk" but their upgrade policy is questionable (advising people not to update kernels, that kind of thing). Just use Peppermint instead ;)

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2018, 08:50:45 am »
Linux mint was the first distro I installed and had no such issues with it. But, to be honest I probably didn't stay on it long enough.
There were several things I didn't like, the update policy was one of them, but mostly I left it because it comes with "the kitchen sink" as well. Found myself removing a lot of software I don't need directly after installation.

Offline Crazy Tux

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2018, 09:04:43 am »
I wouldn't class it as "junk" but their upgrade policy is questionable (advising people not to update kernels, that kind of thing). Just use Peppermint instead ;)

Wrong assumption. Linux Mint update/upgrade policy is not questionable. Mint divide all updates/upgrades in 5 separate levels from required to 'dangerous" (flagged with red colour), see this screenshot. By default level 4 and 5 are turned off, any updates/upgrade classified by Mint as level 4 and 5 will not be installed. This means your system will not be broken down by a newer kernel while your system was running just fine with the kernel installed by default (if it ain't broken, don't fix it!) or by any other system file that could harm your system.

Ubuntu however, does not have such update policy. With Ubuntu it is plain simple: everything will be updated and renewed. Whether you want the update or not. And if you face a broken or unstable system after some updates/upgrades... Well, that's your own fault then, isn't it? That's Ubuntu policy while Mint tries to protect you from all of this.

Using peppermint doesn't save you from all of this. Does Peppermint uses the same update policy as Mint? I doubt this since Peppermint is based on.......... Lubuntu! Which uses the same update policy as.......... Ubuntu!!!!


Offline Crazy Tux

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 09:07:40 am »
Linux mint was the first distro I installed and had no such issues with it. But, to be honest I probably didn't stay on it long enough.
There were several things I didn't like, the update policy was one of them, but mostly I left it because it comes with "the kitchen sink" as well. Found myself removing a lot of software I don't need directly after installation.

Be honest, how many software are you removing from Peppermint you really don't need after installation???

The best part of Mint IS the update/upgrade policy (see my previous post why). It's better than Ubuntu since it protects regular users better for unstable/broken systems.

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 09:19:34 am »
From Peppermint? None!... well, I did remove a few of the ICE SSB's that were games. That's the point. I was ref. to Linux Mint, that comes with stuff I don't need  8)
EDIT: A new kernel will not break your system, you can always boot the previous kernel from the Grub menu
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 09:23:28 am by pin »

Offline Crazy Tux

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 09:23:24 am »

EDIT: A new kernel will not break your system, you can always boot the previous kernel from the Grub menu
Don't be too sure about that! I've seen enough users who were reporting problems after a kernel update regardless the linux distro. I've you run Linux with the default installed kernel and you don't encounter any issues or problems, the best advise is to keep it like that! Again: If it ain't broken, don't fix it!.

Offline murraymint

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 09:25:26 am »
Linux Mint update/upgrade policy is not questionable.

It is. I've just questioned the wisdom of it, as do many others.

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2018, 09:35:05 am »
Say, you are running Linux Mint vanilla settings, i.e no kernel updates.
How's your security when things like Meltdown and Spectre come along? Will you keep running the unpatched kernel just because it ain't broken?

Offline scifidude79

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 09:54:49 am »
How long ago was this, alynur?  Right now, I'm having an issue trying to update using either Mint Update or the terminal, because the Ubuntu repositories are struggling right now.  That's probably due to the kernel updates that were just released that are supposed to start "fixing" the vulnerabilities in modern CPUs.  They're probably seeing massive server load right now.  If you didn't get a correct hit on one of the repos and you missed a critical dependency due to it, then that can cause you to go into emergency mode.  If that's the case, your method of updating won't make a bit of difference, as that can happen using either method.

Offline scifidude79

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 10:06:27 am »
The best part of Mint IS the update/upgrade policy (see my previous post why). It's better than Ubuntu since it protects regular users better for unstable/broken systems.

Sorry, but you're going to be at odds with a lot of people on this forum over that one.  However, I have a rebuttal argument that literally cannot be countered.

If you've paid attention at all to tech news, you know they've recently found vulnerabilities in all modern CPUs, going back 22 years.  Intel has the worst issues, but AMD and ARM aren't coming away squeaky clean.  There are two forms of attack against this vulnerability, called Meltdown and Spectre.  We've discussed them at length here.  Each one is bad, I can't remember which one affects ARM and AMD, but both can be effective against Intel CPUs.  With these attacks, hackers can find all kinds of things on your system, including passwords, bank info, etc.  The CPU makers are doing nothing about this other than making new "clean" chips, they've left it up to OS devs, specifically kernel devs, to fix this vulnerability in existing chips.  The only way to protect yourself against this vulnerability is with a kernel update.  By default, kernel updates are flagged as level 5 by Mint Update and don't get installed.  By not installing these updates, Mint is leaving all of their users' systems vulnerable to Meltdown and/or Spectre.  Therefore, it's not better than Ubuntu's policy, or ours, in this instance.

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 10:13:35 am »
@scifidude79
Yeap, that was my point above. Also, not all the vulnerabilities are discussed as heavly as these last two and with Mint's policy you could easily miss crutial security updates.

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Online alynur

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 01:21:18 pm »
How long ago was this, alynur?  Right now, I'm having an issue trying to update using either Mint Update or the terminal, because the Ubuntu repositories are struggling right now.  That's probably due to the kernel updates that were just released that are supposed to start "fixing" the vulnerabilities in modern CPUs.  They're probably seeing massive server load right now.  If you didn't get a correct hit on one of the repos and you missed a critical dependency due to it, then that can cause you to go into emergency mode.  If that's the case, your method of updating won't make a bit of difference, as that can happen using either method.
Hi scifidude79, this is all happening within the last few days. Crazy Tux may have indicated the problem. Since with all the Ubuntu systems I always run apt update, apt upgrade and dist-upgrade, I may be letting in the kernel killer in an update. The thing of it is, one of the supposed cures was to run all three of those to fix a graphics driver problem one individual was having. if that is the case then Mint should publish a warning to casual users to NEVER perform an apt update or apt upgrade from the terminal. I guess I'll have to reinstall and see how far I can get without getting into the terminal.

Offline DAMIEN1307

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 02:40:17 pm »
hi folks...my main driver IS Linux Mint...started with 18.0 cinnamon and have used each rendition up to the present 18.3 cinnamon...i havent had any of the problems that get reported on the LM forum...why?...i do not use questionable foriegn PPAs...i do not uses multiple desktops...i do not try to put square windows pegs into round linux holes like wine or emulators and the list goes on...likewise i just do not have any problems with my second main computer here at home which is peppermint 8 now updated to 8.5 respin...again NO problems...if you cant guess i believe the reason why is i put the K.I.S.S. on any flavour i use...it simply means Keep It Simple Stupid...like anything else in life, the more we muck things up the more that can go wrong...i run 4 levels in mint for updates as well as peppermint...i keep the 5th level on view so i can see what the level 5 update may be and decide to install them only on a case by case basis...it it happens to be marked "beta" like 4 grubs ive seen i will not download...grub is way too necessary if i have to retreat over a burning bridge (ie) bad kernel update, so i will not use beta anything just incase...i have seen way to much mucking about with problems that some people especially newbies are having and hear them saying its junk...what is necessary is to improve your IT skills BEFORE you start mucking about borking your system...i have been working computers of one sort or another for 45 yrs (now, yep thats right, since the early 70s screwing around with them on my ham radio rigs) and have almost always seen that the main problems people have are either PEBCAK or 1D 10 -T difficulties by newbies also compounding the felony of problems by not using the update manager for their regular updates or kernel updates and security updates from their distros own repositories...DAMIEN
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 02:43:42 pm by DAMIEN1307 »
ORDO AB CHAO

Offline grafiksinc

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Re: is Linux Mint Junk?
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2018, 08:49:29 pm »
Linux Mint is ugly -----No no no I kid.... LOL  ;)

I used Mint since Helena  left Last year and landed here and  never looked back..
As to why I left  - It was the update policy as I got older and wiser  ;D I realized their way of thinking did not sit well with me. - And I must admit the hacking incident pushed me over the fence.

But even further than that,  Pin is right Peppermint really has nothing installed "nearly", even the ICE stuff is minimum  compared to what bigger distros send out
I remember uninstalling Thunderbird/Evolution , Libreoffice, Banshee, Rhythm box,  Brasero etc... those are just a few I remember.
But with peppermint it was just the ICE Apps I did not use.

Peppermint's base install really has nothing installed but the essentials.
For example I prefer Clementine as my music player and  it's nice to not have to uninstall one I don't use and then install the one I like.

At the end of the day Peppermint was my cure for hoppertitus I abandoned all other distros cold turkey, except debian I use that for my database and web servers,  ;)

So hopefully Peppermint will be around for a long time  8) other wise I will go on straight debian.