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Author Topic: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)  (Read 8436 times)

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Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« on: March 24, 2014, 05:08:23 pm »
Clement Lefebvre (Linux Mint Project Leader), hints in a blog response that Mint 17, 18, 19, and 20 may all stick with the Ubuntu LTS as a common base.

Quote from: Clement Lefebvre
we’d still release every 6 months, it would mean 1 new base every 2 years.
Quote from: Clement Lefebvre
(speaking about Linux Mint 17 Qiana) "Yes, it’s an LTS release (we’re also considering basing the 3 releases after than on the very same LTS base)".
Quote from: Clement Lefebvre
"The decision wasn’t made yet, and after/if it is made we can always adapt it based on how things go. The length of the support is an element but it’s not the most important one at play. There’s also an element of quality and a wish to run mature and proven software rather than to jump on brand new frameworks, techs and toolkits every 6 months. And then there’s the fact that we want to develop more. We want to push innovation on Cinnamon, be more active in the development of MATE, better support Mint tools and engage in projects we’ve postponed for years. So the idea is to boost all that by only adapting to new bases once every 2 years, to better commit to that one base shared by all releases and to better support it, and to have our hands freed to do exciting stuff. Note that all will become important post-Qiana though, around November 2014".

Sources:
http://www.webupd8.org/2014/03/linux-mint-might-use-same-lts-base-for.html
and
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2594
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Offline VinDSL

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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2014, 09:10:04 pm »
Hrm...

I wonder if Clem is going to agree to the Canonical licensing terms and continue to use the Ubu repos, or switch to Debian repos.

Read any updates on that?

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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 06:46:39 am »
Haven't heard one way or the other .. Personally I think Canonical are being a bit over the top and intentionally vague about why they think Mint should sign .. do they sign anything from Debian ?
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 07:42:18 am »
Ultimately I think Canonical's request for Mint to agree to licensing terms means that they know Mint has become a far more major contender for desktop market share than they're willing to publicly admit. It was stated that the licensing terms were mostly meant to prevent Mint from competing in front of some "commercial partners" which could mean many things. I'm of the opinion that Canonical doesn't want Mint to see major hardware deals from PC manufacturers but it could also mean stipulations regarding a number of other things (server editions, paid enterprise support, etc).

Regardless, if Mint does elect to stay on the LTS code base, it'll be very interesting to see how it turns out and what it'll end up meaning for Peppermint in the long term. I have a lot of respect for Mint's ways of doing things but a major part of why Peppermint exists is because Mint's ways of doing things are not my preferred ways of doing things. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. Come October, we should have a pretty good idea of how Mint is going to proceed and we should have access to plenty of feedback by the time Peppermint Six rolls around.

Also, though I'm not particularly fond of the idea of basing Peppermint on something else, I'm also not above thinking that doing so might be the best course of action for the future of the project should certain events unfold in the near future.
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2014, 07:56:31 am »
Also, though I'm not particularly fond of the idea of basing Peppermint on something else, I'm also not above thinking that doing so might be the best course of action for the future of the project should certain events unfold in the near future.

Got to agree there .. Ubuntu is the ideal base, they add a LOT of polish to Debian, and then there's launchpad and PPA's .. but Canonical are getting far too political which may force peoples hand.

Pity really.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 09:03:09 am by PCNetSpec, Reason: fiks spilling mistokes »
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2014, 08:48:17 am »
...and then there's launchpad and PPA's
This. Right. Here.

I wish there were words that could adequately explain how much simpler my life is because of Launchpad and the PPA system. For those who don't know about Launchpad, it's a web platform for building and publishing software packages that not only gives a user however many repositories he/she wants, but it also builds and signs the packages for the user in a clean chroot. In addition it tracks package versions and revisions, lets you easily copy packages back and forth between repos, handles bug tracking, and a million other things. It really is a brilliant platform. The only other thing in existence that might come close to comparing to it is the AUR, but even that requires a ton of work in comparison.

Anyway, Ubuntu certainly does add a lot of polish compared to Debian, but the differences for LXDE users who don't primarily work from a terminal are much smaller than they are for other desktops as the LXDE components (excepting PCManFM) are quite stable, rarely update, and have been working like a charm pretty much everywhere for what seems like ages at this point. The biggest thing that Canonical brings to the table is application support. Pretty much everyone writing desktop Linux applications is making sure that Ubuntu is well supported because not doing so means that the potential user base shrinks dramatically. Also if a new version of something comes out, there's probably going to be a PPA for it. You could probably keep an LTS system up to date for quite some time using PPAs if you wanted to.
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2014, 12:04:36 pm »
I am a big fan of Linux mint especially Cinnamon...
I have no clue what is going on but after reading here I understand your concerns...
I played around with their LMDE up8 and It is a shame they can't come up with a better installer for it, that is about the only drawback I can see to their Debian edition.... I had to manually partition the drive a month of sundays to get it right, so much easier the way the ubuntu based systems install...
I was successful in getting their debian edition on my friends laptop, I am curious to see what he has to say about it after using it for a while....
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2014, 01:47:11 pm »
I played around with their LMDE up8 and It is a shame they can't come up with a better installer for it, that is about the only drawback I can see to their Debian edition.... I had to manually partition the drive a month of sundays to get it right, so much easier the way the ubuntu based systems install...

This is another major reason for staying on the Ubuntu base. Ubuntu's "Ubiquity" installer is flat out amazing compared to most of what else is available, at least when it comes to general user friendliness. Advanced users may have differing tastes, and rightly so, but for most everyone else Ubiquity is essentially the pinnacle of Linux installation software available right now. A rather large concern of mine if Peppermint ever changes base is how to approach the installer issue. I would rather revert to a rebranded Debian installer than use Mint's solution, even if it means sacrificing the live session (though this would eliminate the need for AUFS support in the kernel, which I suppose is nice but whatever).
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2014, 01:53:21 pm »
I played around with their LMDE up8 and It is a shame they can't come up with a better installer for it, that is about the only drawback I can see to their Debian edition.... I had to manually partition the drive a month of sundays to get it right, so much easier the way the ubuntu based systems install...

This is another major reason for staying on the Ubuntu base. Ubuntu's "Ubiquity" installer is flat out amazing compared to most of what else is available, at least when it comes to general user friendliness. Advanced users may have differing tastes, and rightly so, but for most everyone else Ubiquity is essentially the pinnacle of Linux installation software available right now. A rather large concern of mine if Peppermint ever changes base is how to approach the installer issue. I would rather revert to a rebranded Debian installer than use Mint's solution, even if it means sacrificing the live session (though this would eliminate the need for AUFS support in the kernel, which I suppose is nice but whatever).
I am pretty Sure Antix is based on debian as well, and they have a relatively easy installer, which is what surprised me when I tried the LMDE up8 and came across that installer they chose, it was if I must say a nightmare....  I consider myself pretty savvy when it comes to linux, since I have been using linux for close to 7 years now, I am not by far a guru yet, but I know a guru I can ask questions when i get into trouble right Mark....  LOL  ;)
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 02:04:48 pm »
I'm no "guru", I know a few people I'd consider "guru's" so I can confidently say I don't fit that category :)

I thought I'd read somewhere (probably some time ago)  that you could get Ubiquity to install in Debian (?)  .. after all isn't it mainly just a bunch of python scripts ?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 02:08:38 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 02:21:54 pm »
I haven't hacked around with it in a while, but it's a bunch of Python wrapped around the Debian Installer. The whole thing is inordinately large for an installer, but as long as it works I suppose. It would be very interesting to try and rip everything out but the live system installer and then modify it to run on Debian or something else. I suppose anything is possible. Maybe if I get drunk and masochistic I'll give it a whirl at some point in the future.
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 04:29:59 pm »
I recently installed SolydX on a spare HDD which is Debian based and the installation was a piece of cake and a while back I installed Makula (also Debian based) and that installation was a nightmare
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2014, 10:33:25 am »
I recently installed SolydX on a spare HDD which is Debian based and the installation was a piece of cake and a while back I installed Makula (also Debian based) and that installation was a nightmare
Antix had a Install video on youtube that was like 15 minutes long, after watching the video everything was explained, so It makes it much easier when you go to actually install it... The one thing I like about their installer none of the others seem to do, is after install you have a choice of like 20 things you can un check if you don't want them to run, this is awesome for old systems with very low ram being able to take out things like bluetooth saned cups transmission etc.....  :)
 
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 11:52:02 am by rjm65 »
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2014, 06:44:02 pm »
I have to agree with Emegra here concerning the instillation of Makulu on my now infamous external hard drive.  I could never quite figure it out.  The external hard drive's red light was blinking like mad during what I thought was an instillation, but after about 10 minutes of waiting for who knows what, and not know if I was really ever installing anything, I just pulled the plug, literally, on the whole thing.

It was an ugly and confusing experience for me, and one I won't soon be repeating.

Emegra used the perfect word for the instillation experience I had with Makulu.  It was a nightmare.
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Re: Mint 17 18 19 and 20 all to be based on the 14.04 LTS (?)
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 02:06:39 am »
I tried to install Makulu Xfce as a dual boot next to Peppermint,  just out to curiosity.  Its not my  first choice of distro as it does fall into the bloated category.   I gave up when the Live DVD wouldn't recognize my keyboard.  I've a slightly oddball international Scandinavian QWERTY keyboard.  99% of distros I've tried, it is no problem.  Unfortunately, Makulu was one of the 1%.  It seemed to think the keyboard was Martian.  The letters and numbers were all over the place.  It wasn't anything to do with the number lock being turned on by default either, so it wasn't that annoyance.  I have to ask.  Is it a standing joke between some developers to turn on the number lock by default ;D?  For people with laptops without a number pad it can be bewildering.  Especially if you are a Noob and this is the first obstacle you meet  ???.  Too much time was wasted trying to untangle the mess.  I gave up and won't be trying Makulu again on this computer.  This is a shame because it does come with an awful lot of hippopotami  8).  I had the same issue with Manjaro community builds.  The standard Manjaro builds worked fine though.  Such is Linux.
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