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Author Topic: 10 things to do first in Peppermint  (Read 4842 times)

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Offline oldLinuxLover

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10 things to do first in Peppermint
« on: September 20, 2017, 02:36:39 am »
I don't know if this is against forum rules, but a user-friendly tutorial on setting up Peppermint can be found at:

https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/first-peppermint

There are other useful tips for Mint and Ubuntu there too.

Offline scifidude79

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 09:30:34 am »
It's not against forum rules to link to tutorials, we do it all the time when trying to help people.  However, I do believe it has been posted before, but I'll have to check.

Personally, I disagree with at least one action listed as "essential."  But, that's just me.

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 09:35:46 am »
Yep that's a great site, but Team Peppermint STRONGLY suggest you DO NOT follow the section labelled "Disable automatic updates for the kernel".

Specially on Peppermint 8 where disabling kernel updates will eventually leave you on a kernel that is unsupported upsteam for security updates (when the HWE eventually rolls you onto the next kernel series and Ubuntu drop support for the 4.10 kernel series).
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 09:37:30 am by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

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Offline scifidude79

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2017, 10:23:29 am »
Yeah, that's the one I definitely disagree with.  I can't imagine why you would want to do that.  :-\

Offline mac

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2017, 11:05:20 am »
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 11:06:57 am by mac »
Peppermint: Standing Out from the Cloud
Reg. Linux User #432835

Offline oldLinuxLover

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 11:15:05 am »
OK on the advice regarding kernel updates.

I believe the Mint team advise "review kernel updates and apply with caution" and only automatically apply kernel updates if you're "an experienced user", so there appears to be differing views on this point.

But I do agree that you shouldn't stick with long out of date kernel versions.

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 11:28:08 am »
But you're not using Mint, you're using Peppermint.

Peppermint 8 gets it's kernel from the hwe-16.04 which means it was automatically updated from the original 4.8 kernel series to the 4.10 kernel series when Ubuntu 16.10 was released, this automatic rolling to the next kernel will happen again shortly after 17.10 is released (probably 4.13), at which point the 4.10 series will be retired (EOL) upstream so will no longer receive security updates/patches.

If you do not accept automatic kernel updates you will stay on the 4.10 kernel series after it's end of life so you you will potentially be putting your system security at risk.

Despite the Mint labels Kernel updates are NOT dangerous, you can always boot an earlier kernel if you have problems (as the old kernel is not removed) .. we are based on Ubuntu and get our kernel directly from them, so follow their update policy (which is important, specially when using their HWE kernels).

Whatever you think I find it necessary to point out to anyone else reading this that withholding kernel updates can (and will) become a security issue at some point, so as they are NOT dangerous it's Team Peppermints policy to enable them .. we didn't screw up our defaults accidentally, they were chosen for a reason.

I have no idea whether Mint get their kernel via the hwe-16.04 but if they do then their settings are insane and will eventually put their users at risk unless they're specifically doing something to mitigate the HWE kernel rollovers (somehow I doubt they are using hwe-16.04 in the first place as I can't see Mint intentionally putting their users at such a risk) .. my point is - Peppermint is NOT Mint, you should not expect Mint policy defaults to be the best fit for Peppermint (or Ubuntu, or any other distro) nor should you change them without FULLY understanding the differences and implications.

At the end of the day do you trust Mint (accidentally) know more about Peppermint than we do ?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 12:24:13 pm by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

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Offline scifidude79

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 11:47:26 am »
Can a kernel update break your system?  Yes, I had it happen once in 8 years.  Will it break your system?  Probably not.  Once in 8 years is an incredibly low statistic.  Mint seems to take any chance as a certainty, which makes no sense.

https://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php/topic,5464.0.html

May be what scifi is thinking about...

Yep.  I tried to find that but wasn't as successful as you.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 11:50:26 am by scifidude79 »

Offline oldLinuxLover

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 03:55:24 pm »
I'm not a tech guru, but as far as I know both Peppermint and Mint are based on Ubuntu long term releases.
I have one computer running Peppermint and two running Mint 18.2 - and both Peppermint and Mint work fine.

My original post was intended to direct new users towards a site which I've found useful and easy to understand. There may be details which some experts (and I) may not totally agree with, but most of the advice is sound.

Keep cool, guys. No criticism  of Peppermint defaults intended!

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 07:31:24 pm »
Yep, both Peppermint and Mint are based on Ubuntu, but they use differing repositories and kernels.

My message wasn't intended to knock that site as it does contain some very useful information, but whenever I see that page mentioned and/or someone suggests people should use the Mint settings in Peppermint I find it necessary to point out it's not a good idea to disable kernel updates, particularly in Peppermint 8 and that we didn't simply overlook the settings, they were chosen for a reason.

We wouldn't want people putting their security at risk based on information that's written with Mint in mind that doesn't fit with how our kernel updates are applied (which is different to Mint). AFAIK Mint is always on the 4.4 (long term support) kernel  without user intervention, Peppermint 8 has a more recent but shorter lived kernel so updates are NECESSARY for the kernel to rollover to the next version for system security.

IIRC I'm also pretty sure that page was written BEFORE Peppermint 8 was released  so probably didn't take into account kernel updates from the HWE.

If however the user FULLY understands how the HWE kernel rollovers work and the implications of disabling kernel updates, he is free to disable them if he chooses .. which is why we decided not to remove that ability from mintupdate, just changed the defaults.
(though I am beginning to rethink that decision)

But when this comes up, Team Peppermint must ADVISE against disabling kernel updates for anyone who doesn't fully understand the HWE and the implications. :)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 03:47:04 pm by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline scifidude79

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 12:09:05 am »
Keep cool, guys. No criticism  of Peppermint defaults intended!

Everyone is cool here.  Our main man PCNetSpec is just explaining why it's the way it is, so that there's no misunderstanding.  That site is certainly full of good advice, many of those things are on my own personal checklist for when I do a fresh install.  It's a good find and we're glad you shared it.  :)

Offline pin

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 02:46:05 am »
Quote
IIRC I'm also pretty sure that page was written BEFORE Peppermint 8 was released  so probably didn't take into account kernel updates from the HWE.

I can confirm this, since I've myself used that page as a short list of things to do when I installed my Peppermint 7. Looking at it now, it's clear that he kept most of the text with a few changes (mainly the version number of the OS) to reflect the new release. One things he has removed, that I found to be good, were the steps to get the ttf-mscorefonts-installer package in order to get microsoft office fonts into libreoffice. In general, the tweaks to libreoffice are very useful.

There are very good tips on that page, but the part regarding the kernel updates is, as already explained, totally out of context.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 06:06:37 am by pin »

Offline VinDSL

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 06:57:47 am »
I have no idea whether Mint get their kernel via the hwe-16.04 but if they do then their settings are insane and will eventually put their users at risk[...]

Comeuppance awaits!  8)

Offline oldLinuxLover

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2017, 11:00:00 am »
One final observation regarding kernel updates, if I may.

My Peppermint machine and my Mint 18.2 laptop are both currently running kernel 4.10.0-35 with their respective default update settings.

The only difference I can see is almost philosophical: because new kernels very occasionally cause problems which may puzzle new users, the Mint team suggest their users "think before update" whereas the Peppermint team advise "always update" in order to benefit from the latest improvements.

It seems to me that both approaches are perfectly reasonable.

Offline scifidude79

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Re: 10 things to do first in Peppermint
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2017, 11:14:07 am »
It seems to me that both approaches are perfectly reasonable.

And that right there is exactly the point of Linux being open source and why there are so many different distributions.  There's no right or wrong way to do things.  If you feel something should be done one way or another, odds are you can find a distribution to suit your needs. If not and if you know what you're doing, you're free to make your own.  Freedom of choice and freedom to do it however we want is what makes Linux great.

While I may not agree with Mint's approach to many things, they're a great group with an awesome distribution.  It was my distribution of choice before I found Peppermint.  They have their own philosophies and ways of doing things, and there's nothing right or wrong about it.  It's simply their way.  8)