Choose style:

Author Topic: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.  (Read 2636 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25094
  • Karma: 2778
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2017, 04:23:57 pm »
Yep very similar solid premium business class lappy that cost a fortune new but are now a steal :)

Some of the Thinkpads are also cut from the same cloth, but for some reason they always look a bit more "beat up" by the time they finish their business life.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 04:27:25 pm by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2017, 04:59:40 pm »
Yeah I had a Thinkpad T520 for work once (I didn't own it, it belonged to my employer) and it was really sturdy but already banged up when I got it. The Plastic of the Thinkpads does get quite ugly pretty fast. Thinkpads are real plasticbombers. But that Thinkpad was really slow with all the Software that was autostarting and taking up lots of ressources in the background (a lot of DRM stuff on some really expensive programmes which runs all the time, even if they aren't running), so I never enjoyed using it.
It had a proper keyboard. That's probably the biggest downside of the Lifebook, the keyboard isn't great.

The PoorGuy

  • Guest
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2017, 05:23:28 pm »
.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:36:57 pm by The PoorGuy »

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25094
  • Karma: 2778
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2017, 05:29:39 pm »
Yeah that's something else I love about the Dell E's .. proper classic keyboards, none of this 'chicklet/island' horror.
(not quite as "classic" as the D series Dells, but still very good positive feedback .. you don't hit stuff 'accidentally' by just resting your finger on it)

@ The PoorGuy

I think "E series" (for Dells) generally refers to one of the distinct 'series/families' of Latitude laptops:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Latitude
not so much the desktops .. the "E" in some of the Optiplex family came from the pentium/pentium dual core/core2 Intel CPU designation IIRC.

None of the Optiplex (AFAIK) actually had "E" in their model designations (at least not at the beginning of the model designation)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_OptiPlex
but they were often advertised as having say an E4400 or say E4600 Core2Duo, or say an E5200 Pentium Dual Core

IIRC there were some Inspiron desktops with an "E" in the model number, but I don't **think** the "E" ever represented (or were known as) a 'series' or 'family'.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 06:09:05 pm by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2017, 06:33:18 pm »
My Lifebook belongs to the E Series as well, although it's a different brand ::)

Keyboard is the big downside here. However searching for 13"-14" Laptops with 100Wh and proper Quad-Cores there seems to be nothing besides the Lifebook. And I can live with the keyboard, I'm plugging in another one if I write more. Otherwise I'm missing some things to your Dell as well, I've only 1600x900 TN and obviously I need to upgrade the CPU.
But the FHD IPS Versions of the Lifebook are utterly expensive, at least the smaller ones. 15" is priced ok, but even a completely banged up 13" one with i3, 4gb 650 got sold on eBay. Probably only good to upgrade another laptop that's in good condition to FHD IPS. I guess that's just because there is no alternative if you want it small, powerfull with lots of capacity and some built quality.

1600x900 on 14" isn't much worse than 1920x1080 on 15" though and I actually like the TN Panel (although the colors are crap and max brightness isn't great), because the minimal brightness is superlow. I have dark background white text anyways and I can sit in a dark room and dimm it down all the way. I've never seen a backlight that can go lower without going out. I had to tape off the LEDs and and the Panel can't wake up on 1% brightness, not a big deal when there are brightness buttons for it.
And you can turn off the touchpad with a key, really nice. And it's done proper, so works in any OS. And last positive surprise is an awesome soundcard. The speakers are ok but headphone sound is amazing. Because the Laptop is available in different sizes and all have the same mainboard it's basically split in three parts and the soundcard makes up one sitting completely on it's own in the lower right corner. Basically like an external soundcard, connected to the main hardware by a longer cable which supplies power and the digital signal and digital to analog is done in this corner with empty space around it. Not sure if this was by design or a happy coincidence (there's probably no free space around it on the 13" version), but that doesn't really matter.
Those are the little things you only notice once you have it^^

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25094
  • Karma: 2778
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2017, 06:45:29 pm »
The E6xx0's all pretty much came with 90Wh 9 cell batteries (though these were an option, most businesses bought them), and another 30Wh battery could go in the "E-Modular" optical bay ..  so up to 120Wh .. so similar to the lifebook I guess ?

One thing I did spot though is the lifebook optical bay modules included a "projector" option of all things :o
(never AFAIK an option on the Dell)
Although if I had to guess, I'd guess Fujitsu sold about 2 of those .. I'd be fairly certain businesses would want to use a more substancial projector than anything you're gonna get in the optical drive bay .. but who knows right :)

I agree on the resolution .. in fact I probably wouldn't want 1080 on anything smaller than 15.6, I may even go further and say 1600x900 may be better on 15.6 too .. I have to admit colour representation is pretty good once calibrated and video looks GREAT on these things, but I end up border line wanting to scale pretty much everything else.

Can't talk for the audio quality via headphones, haven't tried em yet .. speakers are slightly better than most cheap consumer grade laptops but not by much and still "tiny"..
One thing I DON'T like is the E6x20 and E6x30's have one of those damn combo headphone/mic jacks instead of separate ones .. Arrrgh!!! :(
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 07:20:54 pm by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2017, 12:03:19 am »
But are the small E6xx0's capable of a Quad-Core i7, I've only seen them with the Dual-Core one and never with a Quad? The "Q" in the Name is the most important thing on mobile Intel CPUs, everything else is just an desktop i3, even if it's called i5 or i7. (i7 M is a desktop i3 with all features and i5 M and i3 M have some things disabled.) At least for threaded work, the Quads are almost twice as fast there.

I never noticed that, might be cool for a dark room as well^^ Can't imagine it's really capable of more. Whaaaaat? 490 for this thing? Never mind...

Well video looks really great once you plug in your monitor here :D But I don't need it mobile so not an issue.

Yeah text on 1600x900 14" is already on the tiny side but I like it.

Same here for the speakers, headphone/mic are separate. And switching between jacks and onboard is done by the Bios so works in every OS without drivers and it's done for both jacks individually.

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25094
  • Karma: 2778
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2017, 09:02:50 am »
But are the small E6xx0's capable of a Quad-Core i7, I've only seen them with the Dual-Core one and never with a Quad? The "Q" in the Name is the most important thing on mobile Intel CPUs, everything else is just an desktop i3, even if it's called i5 or i7. (i7 M is a desktop i3 with all features and i5 M and i3 M have some things disabled.) At least for threaded work, the Quads are almost twice as fast there.

a) Yes, you can get quad core in most of the E6xx0 series .. like you said for the lifebook, the mobos are the same and socketed.
I mean here's a 13" quad
http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-3-Dell-Latitude-E6320-Core-i7-2620QM-2-4GHz-8GB-Win-7-Pro-64X-500-GB-HDD-/152568362540

and

b) The Q doesn't mean mobile (just means "quad") and the M does mean "Mobile" .. the M is not just a desktop i3, none of the i3's have Turbo-Boost or 6 to 8MB cache which is basically the real difference between i3 and i5/i7 (though there are other features too) .. the difference between i5 and i7 of the same family pretty much being just core frequency (clock speed) and cache size as both support turbo boost.

"M" models tend to have lower core frequencies than their desktop counterparts but can generally come close to matching them (when required) when using turbo boost (where available .. ie. not in an i3) .. I gather the stepping is usually different to.

Intel add to the confusion by having stupid model designation .. such as:-

Quote
The Core i7-6700 runs 4 cores at 3.4/4.0 GHz with 8MB cache for a Passmark score of 9,973. Its mobile counterpart, the Intel Core i7-6700HQ, comes in at 2.6/3.5GHz with 6MB of cache for a Passmark score of 8,001

So why call them both "6700" ::) .. this just makes the mobile CPU look weaker than what people perceive to be it's desktop 'counterpart' .. when really it's not an actual 'counterpart' it's a completely different spec CPU so they should never have confusingly called it "6700"

Really the mobile i3/i5/i7 don't have 'desktop counterparts' .. they are pretty much always a completely different spec .. the "M" just denotes that CPU as 'designed for mobile use' because of things like stepping.



None of what I said above changes the fact that like you said a lot of these i3/i5/i7's weren't manufactured on different production lines .. just sorted at the end by what they were capable of and what 'worked' and then labelled (and some features then intentionally disabled to make them fit a "model" label).

But it does mean any comparison between 'mobile' and 'desktop' CPU's is flawed comparison from the beginning because they're basically just labels to fit their marketing ;)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 09:22:41 am by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline murraymint

  • Trusted User
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1922
  • Karma: 335
  • soft boiled with a yolk of gold
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): 7, 8, 9
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2017, 09:50:10 am »
just sorted at the end by what they were capable of and what 'worked' and then labelled

I'm all processored out from looking at the damn things now, but that's what I was beginning to suspect - as happens in other lines of manufacturing too.

BTW, I was checking out the i7 4600U you mentioned and I found one sitting in an HP Chromebox. That form factor will be interesting in the future as the processors start to get more efficient.

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25094
  • Karma: 2778
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2017, 10:35:06 am »
The form factor (NUC ?) yeah :) .. but I have a MASSIVE anti-HP sentiment going on at present >:(

Though I'm a bit stumped at what anyone's liable to do with ChromeOS that really requires an i7 ???
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 10:44:56 am by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2017, 11:06:30 am »
Well, good to know. Searching for one on the eBay.de site gave me nothing and ebay-kleinanzeigen as well. So I guess they're just rather uncommon here?

I never looked at stepping, Turbo or anything like that because that's something you can change anyways. At least on Windows there was a tool for everything, in Linux it might be harder. But flashing a Bios is an option as well. So for me it's cores and cache that matters. 99% of the Intel-CPUs are made out of either 2 cores 3MB or 2 cores 4MB modules (which is the same thing but one is cut down). And Quads are two modules combined. And then there are all these softwarefeatures that make them different.
I've not bothered playing around with that stuff o the Lifebook yet, but I've always played around with that on my PC (which has an AMD FX-6300 that clocks between 1.4 and 4.8GHz on all 6 cores according to the load and none of my GPUs ran with a factory Bios ::) Since I wanted my PC to be semi-passive cooled I always had to mod things anyways because stupid bios wouldn't allow the fan to be turned off at 20C coretemp).

An i7 with an U behind is even worse, that's an i3 throttled at 15W for me. You can't compare that to anything else that's called i7. Maybe it's half of an i7 throttled if you want to see it that way. If ChromeOS is one half of a real OS with some limitations, isn't it fitting?

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25094
  • Karma: 2778
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2017, 11:40:04 am »
I'm not sure a U is"worse" .. it all depends on what you're priorities are ;)

And I doubt you'd be able to enable turbo-boost on an i3 because it's AFAIK not present.

But yeah as a quad core is basically just 2 dual cores stitched together on the same die, where the BIOS allows you to disable 2 cores I'd always go for the quad.

You can pretty much SEE they are just 2 dual cores stitched together on the same die (but with the same amount of shared cache) by simply looking at them:

Dual  core i7 M


Quad core i7 QM

« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 11:46:50 am by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2017, 01:26:26 pm »
You can't enable Intels Turbo, but you can write yourself a script that clocks your CPU according to power consumption, temperature, cores used, ... like Intel does. At least on the AMD FX it's relativly easy, Intel seems to have a lot more locks in the way. Same for the TDP-Limit of the U series. Locking the TDP is rather easy.
Hyperthreading might be harder, but companies like VMWare have their own two threads per core software that runs on any CPU.
Intels Turbo programme might be more efficient (although their software features like Turbo, Hyperthreading and so on consume some CPU power as well, which is something most people don't realize because you can't see it in your taskmanager).

What Intel does is probably what Richard Stallmans nightmares had been back in the 80s, people get forced to buy another CPU for a different firmware setting.


You can pretty much SEE they are just 2 dual cores stitched together on the same die (but with the same amount of shared cache) by simply looking at them:
The Cache is doubled (although shared, dual 3 or 4MB, quad 6 or 8MB), the reason the Quad isn't twice as big is because there's only one iGPU on both. But the CPU part is doubled (and the cache connected).