Choose style:

Author Topic: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.  (Read 2618 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25082
  • Karma: 2774
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2017, 12:32:27 pm »
What makes me laugh looking back at adverts like that is the "Yay" factor we associate with the tech of the day....

"each 5 1/4" diskette has 100k bytes of storage area, enough to hold entire files" .. as in "good god, an entire document on a single disk, whatever next" :o

Bear in mind ten minutes ago I ordered the missus a 128gb micro SDxc card for her new phone :D
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 12:36:34 pm by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline scifidude79

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 863
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 9
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2017, 01:38:57 pm »
For sure, that was high tech back in the day.  I'm sure well worth the price.  Well before the days of budget PCs, that monster was probably built to last because most people couldn't afford to replace them often.

Here's a sign of how old that ad is:  Without the floppy drive, that computer was $400 less.  So, $400 for a floppy drive.

One thing I definitely don't miss is software on floppy discs.  Instead of pulling out a single disc or entering a download code, you pulled a stack of floppies out of the box and inserted them one at a time in sequence to install software.  ::)

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2017, 04:53:01 am »
Back in the days when software was developed on a paper... luckily those are over. At least that's what I thought until I had my first informatic lessons >:(

Offline spence

  • Trusted User
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1854
  • Karma: 185
  • peppermint user since 2010
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 9 Respin
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2017, 04:51:32 pm »
For sure, that was high tech back in the day.  I'm sure well worth the price.  Well before the days of budget PCs, that monster was probably built to last because most people couldn't afford to replace them often.

Here's a sign of how old that ad is:  Without the floppy drive, that computer was $400 less.  So, $400 for a floppy drive.

One thing I definitely don't miss is software on floppy discs.  Instead of pulling out a single disc or entering a download code, you pulled a stack of floppies out of the box and inserted them one at a time in sequence to install software.  ::)

You did notice it was shipped as an unbuilt kit?
spence
PeppermintOS 10installed  on:
'16 Antec Aria rebuild
 '18 Asus VivoBook


Do not despair, grasshopper...
    with patience all will be revealed...
       Through pain, enlightenment will come.

The PoorGuy

  • Guest
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2017, 08:16:34 pm »
.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:38:18 pm by The PoorGuy »

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2017, 02:35:05 am »
But it's sad that a lot of companies are even investing work and money in making things hard to fix. WiFi-Card Whitelists, encrypted Smartbatteries, BIOS that doesn't allow you to boot from any device, ...
I guess for Office, Internet and Videos it's easy to get something that works. However the issues start when it should be mobile or you need more performance.

And that a lot of parts can't be fixed got a lot of less tech interessted people to think that electronics just can't be repaired. Most people throw their smartphone away when the USB port is worn out :-[

I never had a TV and don't have a radio (except for a small torch/radio thing with a winch, but that's more a backup for emergencies - like a longer power failure). Fixing an old TV might not be the issue, but finding a programme that's interesting ::).  I'm too young for this, I'm used to the internet which shows me what I want :D

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25082
  • Karma: 2774
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2017, 08:17:11 am »
That reminds me of another pet peeve I have, USB ports on phones are a stupid idea ..  even though everyone seems to be raving about USB-C's ability to be plugged in both ways up, I'm seeing very few articles stating its weakness and that it's FAR inferior to Apples Lightning port.

Technically there's nothing in it, but mechanically it relies on a cable with a hole that fits in a socket on the device with a feeble (easily broken) plastic "tab" structure in the middle ... where apples Lightning has a metal tab on the cable, and the socket is a simple hole.

If the "tab" breaks on USB-C it's the device that needs replacing (or at least a new socket fitting) .. if the "tab" breaks on Lightning it's only the cable .. I know which I'd prefer to have to replace.

USB (all of them, but particularly Type C where ALL sockets are the same small and weak size even on things like printers) seems specifically designed to be weak .. but they wouldn't do that "by design" now would they ?
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

The PoorGuy

  • Guest
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2017, 08:22:36 am »
.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:38:47 pm by The PoorGuy »

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2017, 11:53:59 am »
but they wouldn't do that "by design" now would they ?
No, they created Micro USB for a longer lifespan.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus
The micro format is the most durable from the point of view of designed insertion lifetime. The standard and mini connectors have a design lifetime of 1,500 insertion-removal cycles,[7] the improved Mini-B connectors increased this to 5,000. The micro connectors were designed with frequent charging of portable devices in mind, so have a design life of 10,000 cycles[7] and also place the flexible contacts, which wear out sooner, on the easily replaced cable, while the more durable rigid contacts are located in the receptacles.
[7] http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/CabConn20.pdf

Not sure why I replaced the USB Ports with the durable rigid contacts, I guess I always did that wrong :-\.

When you red my first sentence you thought it was ironic, didn't you :P. Real-life satire at it's best and now you know why I never had a TV, Real(ity)TV for the win :D.




Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25082
  • Karma: 2774
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2017, 12:01:35 pm »
When you red my first sentence you thought it was ironic, didn't you :P.

Not so much "irony" (though I get what you mean, and if it weren't complete drivel it would certainly be ironic :))) .. what immediately sprang to mind was either 'stupidity' or 'post event bullsh*t excuse' (by them not you) masquerading as imposed design limitation ;)

I did however immediately spot the satire though :)

Nobody had to "choose" microUSB (and with hindsight why would OEM's still 'choose' Type-C), it's not as though they had no other option than to go with something that already existed (in fact that should have given them the opportunity to evaluate its weaknesses) .. Apple didn't, and it's paid them handsomely .



IMHO USB type C (though technically quite clever) s a worse implementation of socket/plug than even microUSB and will fail (break) even more frequently .. but I'm of the opinion that is PRECISELY why it's been "chosen".

[EDIT]

I must admit I'm a little baffled why even Apple are switching to it though ??? .. maybe they too are giving up even the pretence of build quality.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 12:37:59 pm by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2017, 02:24:28 pm »
That's like with the privacy thing, with all the Win10 spying crap there was a wave of embarrassment and now it's the most used OS. Anyone knows it, (almost) noone cares.
Anyone knows Apple stuff doesn't have a long lifespan and noone cares. Simple.


I just got a defective powersupply (back to topic^^):

HP Pavilion Notebook PSU, how old do you think it is?
Spoiler (click here to view / hide)
8 months
[close]
There's another cap blown as well (but not that nicely for a picture) and the ground cable was soldiered/glued in a horrible way to the connector.

However now the PCB is broken as well, the case is glued to the PCB in one spot in a way that the conductor track gets ripped of when opening the case. Doesn't matter I'm not repairing it anyways (I might harvest some parts from it) and it could actually be called a safety feature (anyone one smart enough to open a PSU is probably smart enough to bridge the gap). Or it's for those who try to repair stuff before contacting the support (destructive version of a warranty seal), because those warranty void stickers only work in the US, in the EU you can break them and your not losing the warranty unless you really broke the device.
It got replaced by HP, maybe the replacement lasts longer. The poor Pavilion is used as a business machine running every day, I'm sure it can't be too long until it starts falling apart. My pavilion died pretty quick after it got two years old (was my first laptop purchase, I didn't know how crappy they are - and it didn't look bad for the first two years), Heatpipe leaking (it was filled with ammonia), battery dying, hinges going bad and some weird issues (which might have been caused by the mainboard being steamed with ammonia maybe). I might look after it and see what actually still works, didn't have the time to do so when I realized the heatpipe was leakying (it was only slightly) and only cleaned everything and threw the heatpipe in a sealed box and ordered a cheap (because badly scratched but otherwise good) used Fujitsu Lifebook, which is 2-3 times as heavy but at least the steel frame shouldn't fall apart that fast...

Offline PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25082
  • Karma: 2774
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2017, 02:39:29 pm »
Yep, never touching a Pavillion (or more likely ANY HP) again .. for the foreseeable future I'll be sticking with what I **KNOW** is solidly built, "E" series Dells.

Seriously in a laptop I can't see the point in going new when these are available .. there's not much on the market faster, CPU's don't seem to have progressed much in the way of horsepower in the last 5 years, maybe they're slightly more power efficient, but I'm nearly always plugged in anyway.

And Graphics .. well unless you're gonna spend a fortune (and be tied to a power outlet anyway), laptops aren't really for gaming so who cares about the slightly more capable graphics.

Yep, you can get a quad core i7 E6530 with 16GB RAM and Nvidia NVS 5200M / Intel HD4000 (optimus) graphics for less than the cheapest new 15" HP .. it's gonna have WAY WAY WAY more horsepower, a better (1920x1080) screen, and likely outlast the HP by a factor of 3 because of the difference in build quality .. and they're fixable/expandable (and the bits/addons are hyper-available should you need/want them).
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 02:47:56 pm by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

The PoorGuy

  • Guest
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2017, 03:06:25 pm »
.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:39:09 pm by The PoorGuy »

The PoorGuy

  • Guest
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2017, 03:14:39 pm »
.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:39:27 pm by The PoorGuy »

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2017, 03:38:51 pm »
I think the Fujitsu Lifebook is probably comparable to your Dell.

It's a 3 year old device that was leased (seems to be more common for those things than purchase) and it has 24h warranty for the next year, so if it breaks they'll have to come over here the next day and fix it. Official support will at least go until 2023 and Fujitsu needs to announce the end of support 5 years before it ends when they decide to do that. That's probably why multiple generations of Fujitsu Lifebooks all look the same, share parts, and so on.
It's 14" (but also available in 13" and 15" - all the same except for case, lid and screen) and can take over 100Wh when you replace the CD-Player with the second battery. That's the reason I decided to go with that.

CPU is a dual core i5, but i'll replace that with a quad core i7. Those old business machines have socketed CPUs like desktops, really nice. (I will need to do a lot of CPU intense stuff on it from September onwards) But it's heavy and I'm doing a lot of cycling with it (don't have a car) and with the steep hills here it took some time getting used to that thing (After you getting used to it it isn't an issue really).

It was 250 incl. 1.5 years of 24h warranty because the lid is scratched. And it doesn't have a webcam and just 3G and not LTE, but that's fine for me. I have it for 6months now and hope this thing will serve me a few years. Just the fact that the parts seem to be 1/3 made in Germany 1/3 made in Japan and only 1/3 made in China shows that it's several leages above HP. But the prices of those Lifebooks new are insane (maybe that's why they're mostly getting leased). And it seems they aren't really ment for private people, most shops don't even sell them and a lot of the selling/leasing seems to go over Fujitsu directly and is for companys only. Spare parts are expensive from Fujitsu, but can be found used. Since it's rarely sold to consumers it's for sure not a consumer Notebook ;D

Edit: Fujitsu E744, forgot the name of it.



The powersupply is from 2016 and came with a HP Pavilion 17" Notebook. It's branded by HP but has a little "Mfr.Name: DELTA ELECTRONICS (JIANGSU) Ltd." Note on it.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 03:42:49 pm by Timo »