Choose style:

Author Topic: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.  (Read 2621 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The PoorGuy

  • Guest
Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« on: July 30, 2017, 05:51:19 pm »
.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:40:06 pm by The PoorGuy »

Online PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25083
  • Karma: 2776
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2017, 08:00:28 pm »
Yep, nearly always a case of 'lowest bid' caps .. the cynic in me says they choose the cheapest not to save a few pennies, but to sell you a new mobo.
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline cavy

  • Trusted User
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 420
  • Karma: 55
  • Caveman
    • View Profile
    • PeppermentOS Pixies
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint Eight
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2017, 08:04:24 pm »
Yep, nearly always a case of 'lowest bid' caps .. the cynic in me says they choose the cheapest not to save a few pennies, but to sell you a new mobo.

Tell me about it...! LOL.....! How many T-shirts have I got, lol...!  ;)
“We know what we are, but not what we may be.”

Desktop Dell 7040 i7-6700 500Gb-SSD 32Gb ram
Laptop    Dell 7470 i5-6300 500Gb-SSD  16Gb ram
Various antiques to sample other OS's etc

Offline VinDSL

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 5110
  • Karma: 934
  • Peppermint Mod
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Developmental Builds
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2017, 08:22:35 pm »
Yep, caps n' batteries.

Caps go bad and fry other components due to excess heat/voltage. 

Batteries on mobos get weak, and start wreaking havoc with your BIOS settings.  I've had batteries go janky and require the BIOS to be re-flashed.

And/or a combination of both ...

Offline cavy

  • Trusted User
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 420
  • Karma: 55
  • Caveman
    • View Profile
    • PeppermentOS Pixies
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint Eight
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2017, 09:06:20 pm »
Yep, caps n' batteries.

Caps go bad and fry other components due to excess heat/voltage. 

Batteries on mobos get weak, and start wreaking havoc with your BIOS settings.  I've had batteries go janky and require the BIOS to be re-flashed.

And/or a combination of both ...

I hear you, and currently in a steep learning curve with batteries and BIOS. The reclaimed battery I got my donor machine did solve a lot of issues with my Vostro. But I'm erring or thinking towards a graphic issues. LOL...!   ;)
“We know what we are, but not what we may be.”

Desktop Dell 7040 i7-6700 500Gb-SSD 32Gb ram
Laptop    Dell 7470 i5-6300 500Gb-SSD  16Gb ram
Various antiques to sample other OS's etc

The PoorGuy

  • Guest
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2017, 10:44:46 pm »
.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:40:28 pm by The PoorGuy »

Online PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25083
  • Karma: 2776
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2017, 09:23:33 am »
The problem is they know that unless it's a warrantee job it's beyond most peoples abilities, and it'll cost more to have caps replaced by someone else than the price of a new mobo .. so they make them out of peanut butter to last just as long as the warrantee.

in fact the manufacturers of decent components (such as genuine  Japanese electrolytic caps) generally find them harder to sell to mass market OEM's .. even though the price difference is pennies (when bought in bulk).

It's this "throw away/landfill" con that's driving me nutz .. and considering the long term cost to the planet is a disgrace that should be outlawed.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 09:54:28 am by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline scifidude79

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 863
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 9
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2017, 11:52:01 am »
Most electronics these days aren't intended to live much past their warranty.  We've become a disposable society, getting one gadget and throwing it away when the next model comes out.  Of course, not all of us feel this way, and instead prefer to use a device until it dies.  Well, that doesn't work so well for the companies making the devices.  If I buy a computer, or even just a mobo, and it serves me faithfully for 5-10 years, I have no reason to buy another, so they don't make more money off of me.  However, if it dies, I have to buy another sooner.  That's the thought process here.  Use cheapo, sub standard parts and it's sure to die sooner rather than later.  The last thing they want to do is fix stuff under warranty, so they try to make it last just past the warranty period.

Of course, if I buy a computer and it doesn't last much more than a couple years, like hell am I buying another from that same company.  ::)

Online PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25083
  • Karma: 2776
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2017, 12:19:45 pm »
But I personally would like the option to spend a little more and have something that lasts and is designed to have replaceable (and upgradeable) components.

Problem is, nobody does this at the component level .. and even though everyone's bitching bout "green", they're moving away from it even at the PC "card/board/daughterboard" level.
(and even the made from custard friggin keyboard level .. I'm lookin at you HP ::))


Why can't we have things designed to be fixed/upgraded .. that model used to work (and still does in some market segments), you could get replacement parts for washing machines/vacuum/fridges years ago but not any more .. though the model still works for the auto industry supporting LOADS of third party businesses and a sh*t load of employment (though it's being eroded here too by the cost of diagnostics, and intentionally difficult/expensive to fix components).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 12:25:31 pm by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2017, 12:41:50 pm »
The problem is they know that unless it's a warrantee job it's beyond most peoples abilities, and it'll cost more to have caps replaced by someone else than the price of a new mobo .. so they make them out of peanut butter to last just as long as the warrantee.

in fact the manufacturers of decent components (such as genuine  Japanese electrolytic caps) generally find them harder to sell to mass market OEM's .. even though the price difference is pennies.

It's this "throw away" con that's driving me nutz .. and considering the long term cost to the planet is a disgrace that should be outlawed.
And most consumers don't care. Cheap sells best, Laptop with same specs but 1% more expensive with twice the lifespan will sell worse on the mainstream market. Outlawing this is probably hard, but regulations for repair manuals (like schematics) and spare parts availability for at least a certain amount of time (like 10 years or at least 5) could probably help a lot. Alone if the average customer was aware that the devices are repairable they would probably let someone repair it more likely instead of throwing them away instantly. And guaranteed spare part availabilty would deccelerate the market a bit. Right know it seems like every few months there are new devices and once there are the first long term experiences the device is out of production anyways.

For the planet this is terrible, why do we need all these cheap things? We could reduce our resource consumption a lot without sacrificing much if the high end stuff would just be sold used and become the middle class four years later and entry level another three four later (or so).

However now this is getting political. And as long as the political goal of economy is having work instead of serving the people this is pointless.

I guess we have it way too well for most to realize that and another thing that no politician seems to realize is that we can't live against each other. An advanced society has to be based on thrust, if we would do anything for ourselves we couldn't specialize in  anything and wouldn't advance. With the egoism and lost thrust in other people and their work our society starts degenerating slowly.
But I think more and more people become aware of that and if they start acting instead of complaining we might see this changing.

Online PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25083
  • Karma: 2776
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2017, 01:16:15 pm »
as long as the political goal of economy is having work instead of serving the people this is pointless.

That's not the goal though, the automotive industry is busy giving us an object lesson in that .. slowly killing an entire MASSIVE aftermarket component and repair industry (and associated jobs).

It's simply about shareholder dividends (and gambling on the stock market) .. benefiting ONLY  a few rich people at everyone else's (including the customers) expense.
Or from a political perspective, lobby groups, backhanders donations, and taxation.

Quote
But I think more and more people become aware of that and if they start acting instead of complaining we might see this changing.

Kinda hard when formal complaints and/or suggestions go unread/unhindered and there's no OPTION to complain/act with your chequebook because nobody offers that option (and there's a significant barrier to entry by new players).

I guess it's nothing new, mankind seems stuck in a perpetual cycle of 'screw everyone else' (including our own kids future) .. maybe I'm a fool to hope for anything more :(

Here endeth the political roadshow for today. :)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 02:12:55 pm by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline Timo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 37
  • Open Source is more than the sum of its bytes
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): PM7 Respin (64bit) & PM8 (64bit)
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2017, 03:38:59 pm »
By providing a noob-friendly Linux-Distro your definitely doing something for us and the planet, expanding the lifespan of our PCs/Notebooks ;)

I guess giving up on humanity isn't an option, then the whole life would be pointless. We can't change the world much alone, but if we can make it a bit better that's already something. At least I hope that I can one day look back at my life and know that the world would have been a bit worse without me. I'm not sure why so many people try to accumulate as much money as possible, once they start thinking about their lifes and realize it would have been the best thing for the world if they never existed that must be hard. For the unlikely case that I want to die as a millionaire one day I could always use a printer and or worst case a pen and print/draw myself a million spacebucks or whatever currency I desire ;D

That's the philosophical part for today dealt with :D

Online PCNetSpec

  • Administrator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 25083
  • Karma: 2776
  • "-rw-rw-rw-" .. The Number Of The Beast
    • View Profile
    • PCNetSpec
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 8R, 9, and 9R
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2017, 03:56:17 pm »
We can't change the world much alone, but if we can make it a bit better that's already something.

+100 :)
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

Team Peppermint
PCNetSpec

Offline spence

  • Trusted User
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1857
  • Karma: 186
  • peppermint user since 2010
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 9 Respin
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2017, 11:30:38 am »
this popped into my faceborg this morning...  thought some of you might enjoy the comment stream as well...  its a public post, so no need to actually have an account...

this  came out way way before I had the least bit of interest in computers, much to my father's dismay  ;)


https://www.facebook.com/TheVaultOfTheAtomicSpaceAge/photos/a.802060453206589.1073741828.802054119873889/1476081629137798
spence
PeppermintOS 10installed  on:
'16 Antec Aria rebuild
 '18 Asus VivoBook


Do not despair, grasshopper...
    with patience all will be revealed...
       Through pain, enlightenment will come.

Offline scifidude79

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 863
    • View Profile
  • Peppermint version(s): Peppermint 9
Re: Why Modern Electronics May Have Quit Working.
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2017, 11:35:35 am »
What?!  16kb RAM and 100kb storage for only $1600?!  Sign me up!  :P