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Author Topic: Why Linux Mint Won  (Read 5718 times)

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Offline perknh

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2017, 03:08:44 pm »
Mint is a good project but, as Mark said, without Ubuntu, they'd be nowhere.

That is so true.  I do wish Ubuntu would keep more of a focus on the desktop.  Hopefully Ubuntu's resources will help GNOME 3 develop even further along in a few years.  Still, it's hard to imagine Ubuntu's GNOME DE ever having the same success that Mint's Cinnamon DE has had for itself. 

On the other hand I still need to keep in mind that this isn't the first time Ubuntu has reinvented itself.  Seven years ago, well before I started using GNU/Linux, Ubuntu's default DE was GNOME --albeit GNOME 2.  Also Mark Shuttleworth has promised Ubuntu, or Canonical, will maintain an ongoing commitment to the DE. 

Quote
Id like to emphasise our ongoing passion for, investment in, and commitment to, the Ubuntu desktop that millions rely on. We will continue to produce the most usable open source desktop in the world, to maintain the existing LTS releases, to work with our commercial partners to distribute that desktop, to support our corporate customers who rely on it, and to delight the millions of IoT and cloud developers who innovate on top of it. --Mark Shuttleworth.

It should be interesting to see what unfolds. ;)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 06:35:52 am by perknh »
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The PoorGuy

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2017, 10:13:05 pm »
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:46:27 pm by The PoorGuy »

Offline josephd

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2017, 11:11:39 pm »
If and when Canonical is sold or goes public I suspect the Ubuntu project would probably spin off to a Community only project. I'd be okay with that.

If not, no big deal others will quickly fill the void.
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2017, 11:22:32 pm »
Yeah, probably something along the lines of what happened with Mandriva.  Former employees startes Mageia, which is a separate but similar distribution.  Meanwhile, once Mandriva shut down for good, another group carried it on as an open source project, OpenMandriva.  So, Mandriva lives on as both in name and in name on separate operating systems.

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2017, 02:24:42 pm »
You're all bonkerz :)

Ubuntu is as relevant as ever .. if Ubuntu dries up, three quarters of other distros do too .. you can suggest they'll rebase and carry on until you're blue in the face, but

a) most won't because they don't have the infrastructure to host their own repos.
and
b) PPA's would disappear instantly.
and
c) NO community effort would have the money to support that infrastructure (including Mint).

There is only one other distro (maybe 2 if you count SUSE)  that has the money to supply infrastructure that supports other distros, and they aren't interested.
(hell even Debian couldn't, and don't)

Whether or not Ubuntu concentrates on the desktop, they remain THE MOST RELEVANT Linux "community" supporter out there.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 02:54:12 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline perknh

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2017, 05:01:42 pm »
You're all bonkerz :)

Yes!!! ;D

There is only one other distro (maybe 2 if you count SUSE)  that has the money to supply infrastructure that supports other distros, and they aren't interested.
(hell even Debian couldn't, and don't)

Whether or not Ubuntu concentrates on the desktop, they remain THE MOST RELEVANT Linux "community" supporter out there.

The other distro would be Fedora, isn't it?  But it's all beta stuff, and one year of support wouldn't cut it for most people.  That brings us full circle back to Ubuntu, doesn't it?  But GNOME 3 as a default DE?  I still believe that's a tough sell.  What do they say?  "Cinnamon DE is what GNOME 3 was supposed to be" --or something like that.

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Cinnamon is a fork of the GNOME 3 desktop and appears to be intended as the GNOME desktop that never was. Its development seems to be the logical improvements that the Cinnamon developers thought were needed to improve and extend GNOME while retaining its unique and highly appreciated personality. --David Both
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2017, 06:06:45 pm »
Quote
The other distro would be Fedora, isn't it?

Sort of: I was thinking RedHat.

Quote
What do they say?  "Cinnamon DE is what GNOME 3 was supposed to be"

Tell that to the people experiencing major graphics lag ;)

I've wondered if this has anything to do with muffin, their fork of the mutter window manager .. but good luck Googling "Mint Muffin" :))
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The PoorGuy

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2017, 06:17:11 pm »
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:46:59 pm by The PoorGuy »

The PoorGuy

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2017, 06:22:02 pm »
.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:47:13 pm by The PoorGuy »

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2017, 06:46:33 pm »
I meant "even Debian couldn't, and don't" afford to provide their spinoffs with free use of infrastructure like launchpad.

Debian spinoffs can't diverge as much from upstream (and easily provide updates to their own packages) unless they can afford to host and maintain their own repo .. Ubuntu spinoffs have the advantage that Ubuntu are willing to do the hosting for you (along with build resources)  via launchpad, they do this freely and without asking for anything in return, THIS is the real reason Ubuntu pulled Linux out of the 90's with everyone else enjoying the ride .. and why they should be afforded MASSIVE RESPECT.

And YES, even Debian benefited from a huge flow upstream from Ubuntu, and the interest in Linux Ubuntu generated.

Do you remember the Linux world pre-Ubuntu ? .. would you like to go back there ? .. to a RedHat/SUSE 'corporate Linux' dominated world ?

It was Ubuntu that put the "pep" into "desktop Linux", and even if they loose interest in the "desktop" it's still them that are enabling nearly everyone else.
(and BTW I'm not actually seeing this "lack of interest" I keep hearing others talk of :-\)

It's no secret that I've been a vocal critic of some of the decisions Ubuntu have made in the last few years .. but they deserve our ongoing respect for all they've done and continue to do (freely) for the Linux world, which without them would likely be stuck in the corporate world (probably wholly driven by Intel) today.

I'll criticise some of their decisions .. I DO NOT criticise their commitment to the Linux world, if they had no interest why does Launchpad still exist (which helps so many others) ? .. what do they get out of it (besides being slagged off by everyone from the back of an ungrateful bandwagon) ?

If Ubuntu close shop, sure Linux will likely survive .. but EVERYTHING would change, and I seriously doubt for the better .. I'd MUCH rather have Ubuntu 'enabling' a diverse ecosystem of other distros (at their expense) than RedIntelHat's "let's own it" mentality, or maybe a return to Micro$USE.

I repeat .. No other distro has done as much, and continues to do as much for the desktop Linux community .. and even though I can (and often do) disagree with some of their decisions, I for one offer them my profound and deepest gratitude and respect .. not so much now FOR Ubuntu, but for BEING Ubuntu. ;)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 07:57:53 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2017, 10:01:12 am »
You're all bonkerz :)

Ubuntu is as relevant as ever .. if Ubuntu dries up, three quarters of other distros do too .. you can suggest they'll rebase and carry on until you're blue in the face, but

a) most won't because they don't have the infrastructure to host their own repos.
and
b) PPA's would disappear instantly.
and
c) NO community effort would have the money to support that infrastructure (including Mint).

There is only one other distro (maybe 2 if you count SUSE)  that has the money to supply infrastructure that supports other distros, and they aren't interested.
(hell even Debian couldn't, and don't)

Whether or not Ubuntu concentrates on the desktop, they remain THE MOST RELEVANT Linux "community" supporter out there.

It was just a theoretical discussion, could Ubuntu survive without Canonical?  Not that anyone thinks Ubuntu/Canonical are realistically going anywhere, especially not with Dell laptops being sold with Ubuntu preinstalled.  Also, there are more Ubuntu-based systems being ran than any other desktop Linux.

I agree, nobody could keep Ubuntu going, but someone would surely try.  It would be a dark day, but one we won't likely see anytime in foreseeable future.

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2017, 12:14:33 pm »
Sorry it just irks me when people hate on Ubuntu in an unqualified manner just for being Ubuntu, and because it's the 'popular' thing to do .. by all means slag off their decisions such as Unity, but they should be respected as an entity for everything they've done (and still do) for 'Desktop' Linux.

I'm personally hoping the shift to GS3 (which BTW is another decision I don't quite "get") is them getting back to their roots and pushing development from the bottom up.

The reason I say I don't "get it" though is if the intention is to get back to working closely with Gnome, Gnome have shown recently that they themselves don't seem that interested in bottom up feedback .. in fact they're now worse than Ubuntu at "sod you were doing our own thing and couldn't care less about modularity"

Take panel applets for example: you could hate Unity, but at least indicator applets tended to be portable to other panels (via a simple plugin) .. Gnome (along it must be said with Cinnamon/Pantheon/Deepin, and to a lesser degree MATE and Budgie) are going off on a total integration with ZERO interoperability kick .. personally I see this as the greatest threat to desktop Linux.

It seems to me that the same people who slag off systemd for feature/task creep are the ones that then go on to praise these DE's which are doing the same thing .. ie. they're following someone else's (usually the tech press who're only after clicks) lead without fully understanding what they're bitching about.

What the **** is it with things like the Budgie Menu, Brisk Menu, and yes even whiskermenu ? .. what ever happened to having standalone menu's that could be used in any DE/Panel such as Cardapio and early versions of the Slab menu ::)
(hell if it's necessary to have it as a plugin why not write the menu as a standalone app, then write or allow simple panel plugins for all panels that simply fire it up .. why code it to a specific panel nearly inextricably)

I'm fed up of hearing things like, "can I have the Brisk Menu/whiskermenu/Raven panel/etc. in LXDE/Unity/Gnome/etc.? : NO it's a MATE panel plugin. or DE specific" .. WHY for **** sake ? ???

Basically people are bitching about the wrong things: Linux is slowly loosing the UNIX philosophy of shared, reusable, and pluggable code, and moving towards a selfish integrated model that shares code in name only by making it impossible to use outside the target environment.

If people want to bitch at something for being 'anti-Linux' in some kind of philosophical sense .. stop bitching at Ubuntu, and start bitching at  integration, feature creep, and the loss of the UNIX philosophy of "do one thing and do it well" (or KISS for short) modularity .. ie. The things that made/makes Linux such a flexible OS with a diverse yet mutually supportive community.

Short version:- STOP THE IN-FIGHTING .. it's so damn un-Linux :)

Okay, I'll shut up now because I'm meandering and ranting somewhat :)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 02:07:43 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline pin

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2017, 01:51:30 pm »


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Online VinDSL

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2017, 03:39:27 pm »
I'm personally hoping the shift to GS3 (which BTW is another decision I don't quite "get") is them getting back to their roots and pushing development from the bottom up.

Not trying to twist any arms here - just saying - if I had to settle on ONE and only one DE, it would be Ubu GS.

I'm surprised it took Canonical so many years to rid itself of Compiz (GS + Compiz = Unity).  Ubu has been built of top of GS since, what, 2011 ?!?!?

I can understand their reservations, in the beginning.  GS was gawd awful, in the old days.  Only thing it was good for was a dev tool to customize Unity, which was locked-down pretty tightly.  Unity was basically uncustomizable to the average Ubu user, unless they figured out how to haxor it with GS.

That impediment will be gone now.  GS is easily customizable, so if you don't like what you see, just roll your own.

Believe me on this - I've torn GS apart for years, and put it back together again.  It's a pleasure to work with, and a definite step forward for Ubuntu IMO.

Yes, there is a learning curve involved, but once you get used to using GS, you wouldn't believe how fast you can navigate it.  It's akin to touch-typing on a keyboard vs hunt n' peck, for want of another analogy.  One ends up flying through the GS panels without even thinking about it, given enough time and experience.

You'll see ...  8)


Offline scifidude79

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Re: Why Linux Mint Won
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2017, 06:17:00 pm »
Sorry it just irks me when people hate on Ubuntu in an unqualified manner just for being Ubuntu, and because it's the 'popular' thing to do .. by all means slag off their decisions such as Unity, but they should be respected as an entity for everything they've done (and still do) for 'Desktop' Linux.

I love Ubuntu.  It was the first Linux distro I really took to, though I later moved to Mint and then Peppermint.  I'd rather run Ubuntu or at least a distro based on it than any other Linux.  I just never took to Unity, I'm glad they're going back to GNOME.