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Author Topic: Best Browser  (Read 23233 times)

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Offline perknh

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #270 on: March 06, 2019, 09:52:26 pm »
Thanks pin

Something tells me this is a misunderstanding of what's actually going on here. I can't see that all those distros would actively seek access to your Google account, I mean why would they, it could destroy their reputation ?

If I had to guess - I'd guess compiling asks for a name/url during the build .. and it's just saying "Chromium has full access to your Google account" (which you'd expect) .. but since they added their name/url during the build it now says "VOID Linux Chromium has full access to your Google account" .. in other words it's not that the VOID Linux devs have access to your Google account, it's just that Chromium itself does but Chromium is now called VOID Linux Chromium on your system.

Did that make sense ?

So, PCNetSpec, are we assuming Ubuntu is misnaming Chromium browser by naming it Ubuntu when it compiles Chromium browser? 

Or is it as this this link suggests, -- an error on Chromium's part? 

Below is from mrs.perknh's Google Chrome account:

Quote
Google apps with account access
These are trusted apps by Google you installed on your devices. Remove any that you no longer use.

Google Chrome
Has full access to your Google Account

Now, in my case using Chromium (actually I uninstalled Chromium after I began wondering about this and am now using Firefox and Google Chrome beta), might the notification actually been telling me the truth -- that Ubuntu really did have full access to my Google account?   Absurd as it sounds, might the message have been correct, even if it's just a strange ongoing glitch (bug) within Ubuntu of some sort?  I mean we have no difficulty at all believing that Google Chrome has full access to mrs.perknh's Google account.  I don't think anyone doubts that.  Now if we believe one message, why not believe the other -- that when running Chromium browser from within an Ubuntu-based distribution, Ubuntu will have full access to our Google accounts?

It sounds crazy, doesn't it?  But that's what it says.


@pin

Quote
Yet another reason NOT to use a browser named after a poisonous metal  :D
-- pin

Good one, pin! ;D



@VinDSL
Quote
Heh. Are you starting to see why I use different browsers for different things, perk?
-- VinDSL

Yep, I sure do. ;)



@PCNetSpec, zebedeeboss, pin, spence, and VinDSL, thank you all. This is a strange thing indeed.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 09:54:16 pm by perknh »
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Offline VinDSL

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #271 on: March 06, 2019, 10:21:32 pm »
Might find this interesting, perk - it should all be in English, for you:   :D

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/DsbPuYYTHzo

Offline pin

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #272 on: March 06, 2019, 11:45:41 pm »
Thanks pin

Something tells me this is a misunderstanding of what's actually going on here. I can't see that all those distros would actively seek access to your Google account, I mean why would they, it could destroy their reputation ?

If I had to guess - I'd guess compiling asks for a name/url during the build .. and it's just saying "Chromium has full access to your Google account" (which you'd expect) .. but since they added their name/url during the build it now says "VOID Linux Chromium has full access to your Google account" .. in other words it's not that the VOID Linux devs have access to your Google account, it's just that Chromium itself does but Chromium is now called VOID Linux Chromium on your system.

Did that make sense ?

Yes, I had the same thought... had a look at the package build script and saw this...
Code: [Select]
	# Google API keys (see http://www.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/api-keys)
# Note: These are for Void Linux use ONLY.
conf+=(
'google_api_key="AIzaSyA9gWazKaHaNIPPg2hrMj6_ZSG8AFmq738"'

Quoting from http://www.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/api-keys
"Some features of Chromium use Google APIs, and to access those APIs, either an API Key or a set of OAuth 2.0 tokens is required. Setting up API keys is optional. If you don't do it, the specific APIs using Google services won't work in your custom build, but all other features will run normally."
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 11:49:57 pm by pin »

Offline perknh

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #273 on: March 07, 2019, 06:11:58 am »
Might find this interesting, perk - it should all be in English, for you:   :D

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/chrome/DsbPuYYTHzo

Quote
Well, the phrase "full account access" might cause some misunderstanding. What it means is that anyone who can use your Chrome can access your Google account information like gmail, hangouts, etc. which basically means everything. It is not saying your Chrome will do something to your Google account without your consent.

-- Rong Jie

Good find, VinDSL!  This would mean that anyone who has access to this local Ubuntu-based distribution (Peppermint) has access to my Google account.  That would make sense, and I could live with that.  Problem is, that isn't what it says.  I mean take my cell phone as an example; I've given What'sApp permission to have access to my Google contacts and it has access to pretty much my entire device.  But I never gave Ubuntu permission to access my Google account -- just like I never gave Firefox permission. However, Firefox doesn't say it has full access to my Google Account, while Ubuntu does say it does (or did, because I purged Chromium yesterday.)

I should say, I don't mind Google Chrome having full access to my Google account if I'm using Google Chrome.  However, I would mind Google Chrome having full access to my Outlook account if I was using Google Chrome.

@PCNetSpec

I slept on this -- perhaps waking up with a clue for you.

My Chromium account had both me and mrs.perknh as users.  However my wife rarely used Chromium because she has her own Chrome browser.  So I forgot she was attached to the Chromium account.  I deleted all my info, but I forgot to delete hers before I removed and purged Chromium.  After this, the purging, when I went into her Chrome account, it then said that Ubuntu had full access to her account and that Google Chrome had full access to her account.  I then removed Ubuntu's access and it hasn't come back.  Maybe that's clue that can help you with your understanding of this matter.

PCNetSpec, just a note:  I don't think zeb has ever participated in this thread.  He may not have gotten your message yesterday. :-\
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 06:26:23 am by perknh »
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #274 on: March 07, 2019, 07:07:49 am »
Okay, remember this
https://mashable.com/article/google-chrome-69-forced-login/?europe=true#Y8fM2E1S4aqn
?

So it looks like your local copy of the Chrome web browser (which is based on Chromium, so Chromium probably does this too) needs full access to your Google account to log you into all the other Google services when you log into say GMail (or any other single Google service).

Now I'm connecting the dots a bit here (along with the response VinDSL linked to) - a bog standard copy of Chromium would likely state "Chromium has full access to your Google account", but the naming convention when it's compiled by someone else makes it read "<insert distro name here> Chromium has full access to your Google account", but it's still just talking about YOUR LOCAL COPY of Chromium and not that the distro devs themselves have access to your Google account.
(and that Ubuntu have just been stupid in their naming of their Chromium build so it says "Ubuntu" rather than "Ubuntu Chromium" .. as all other distros seem to)

In any case you need to draw a line of trust somewhere .. i mean it would be VERY easy for Ubuntu/Void/Peppermint/etc. to say push an update that contained a script that copied your home folder contents back to them. The problem with this is that (at least in the case of Ubuntu and Peppermint .. in fact even more so Peppermint because we ONLY use launchpad where code MUST be uploaded as source) by their own enforced open sourcing of code policy this would be quickly spotted and would destroy their reputation.

So in the absence of evidence to the contrary, and on trust earned by Linux developers over many years, I'm going to read that as "Your Local Copy Of Chromium (which was compiled by Ubuntu, and by the way here is their URL) has full access to your Google account".
(which is NOT the same as saying Ubuntu as an entity have access to your Google account)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 07:22:19 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline perknh

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #275 on: March 07, 2019, 11:55:48 am »
Quote
(...Ubuntu have just been stupid in their naming of their Chromium build so it says "Ubuntu" rather than "Ubuntu Chromium" .. as all other distros seem to)
-- PCNetSpec

Thank you, PCNetSpec.  Truth is Peppermint, Chromium, and even Google have all been very, VERY good to me over the years.  Two calendar years ago, Peppermint 8 was a work horse for me and I did all of my work through Peppermint, Chromium and Google's services.  But recently, when I began to contrast mrs.perknh's security notifications within her Google account (using Chrome) with mine (using Chromium), my antennas went up. 

Bottom line:  Chromium browser, although poorly named within Peppermint and Ubuntu, is a safe browser to use.  :)

Thanks so much for looking into this.  And thank you also to all the others here who have posted about this topic too.
We're all Peppermint users and that's what matters  ;).  -- AndyInMokum

Offline pin

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #276 on: March 07, 2019, 12:17:00 pm »
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Bottom line:  Chromium browser, although poorly named within Peppermint and Ubuntu, is a safe browser to use.  :)

 :D  :D

Offline spence

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #277 on: March 07, 2019, 12:30:41 pm »
Meanwhile... today whilst helping someone triage an issue over on MeWe, I decided to install Vivaldi for the first time as that's the user's preferred browser. made a 3rd MeWe SSB with Vivaldi, what a slow pile of molasses that is. Now to figure out how to access it's settings...

 >:(    :-\
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Offline perknh

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #278 on: March 07, 2019, 12:36:34 pm »
Quote
Bottom line:  Chromium browser, although poorly named within Peppermint and Ubuntu, is a safe browser to use.  :)

 :D  :D

How's this:  Chromium browser, although poorly named within Peppermint and Ubuntu, is a safe browser to use -- I HOPE! :-X

Is that better? ;D



@spence

Quote
Meanwhile... today whilst helping someone triage an issue over on MeWe, I decided to install Vivaldi for the first time as that's the user's preferred browser. made a 3rd MeWe SSB with Vivaldi, what a slow pile of molasses that is. Now to figure out how to access it's settings...

 >:(    :-\

-- spence

Top left corner (the menu), if my memory is serving me correctly. :-\ 
We're all Peppermint users and that's what matters  ;).  -- AndyInMokum

Offline spence

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #279 on: March 07, 2019, 12:57:48 pm »
Top left corner (the menu), if my memory is serving me correctly. :-\ 

True in the basic browser perk, but not when it's an SSB...
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Offline perknh

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #280 on: March 07, 2019, 01:10:19 pm »
Quote
True in the basic browser perk, but not when it's an SSB... -- spence

Sorry, spence.  That I do not know.  I haven't used ICE in ages. :-\
We're all Peppermint users and that's what matters  ;).  -- AndyInMokum

Offline pin

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #281 on: March 07, 2019, 01:54:52 pm »
@perknh

Sorry, I just found it funny.
Safe? Most probably. But, for sure it 'calls home' to 'master' Google.
On the other hand, is there such a thing as privacy these days?!  :-\

Offline perknh

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #282 on: March 07, 2019, 03:01:27 pm »
@perknh

Sorry, I just found it funny.
Safe? Most probably. But, for sure it 'calls home' to 'master' Google.
On the other hand, is there such a thing as privacy these days?!  :-\

I enjoyed you comment, pin.  It was a good one! :)

Some time ago I had to do some serous soul searching as to who I thought would do the best job of keeping my family's data SAFE.  I opted for Linux and Peppermint and Chromium and Google's services.  So far, knock on wood, this approach has worked fine for us, but, again, I knock on wood.  Please note, I had little to nothing to do with Microsoft and Windows. ;)

Now, if I had to evaluate my choices over again, I'd probably choose Firefox Quantum or Google Chrome over Chromium.  And, of course, I'd stay with Peppermint.   


@pin & VinDSL

I do agree with VinDSL that one protects one's identity best (from all but our ISPs) by regularly switching browsers.  My problem with browsers these days (and this is just my opinion), is that a few of these browsers are going south, or getting worse, quite quickly.  For instance, I don't like losing the protections of Norway's privacy laws by moving data privacy protections to Singapore.  To me, this is a step in the wrong direction.  Even though this move helps Opera dodge EU's stronger privacy regulations, it doesn't help its users much.   See here.  Grr!

Also Yandex has found itself within a bind since it has become more and more under some kind of neo-Tsarist/authoritarian oversight.  Undoubtedly Yandex is world-class company, but I don't believe the Russian government is doing Yandex any favors these days.  Before Yandex's philosophy was more or less "If you don't mess with us, we won't mess with you."  Unfortunately, I don't believe Yandex can afford to be such a gentle player anymore.

Then we had Maxthon.  Believe it or not, for a brief window in time, Maxthon was the best browser I ever used in LInux, but then Chinese leaders and Chinese data regulations changed.  And soon thereafter Maxthon for Linux went belly up.  Why did it die off?  I believe Maxthon for Linux died off because it couldn't open up its source code without raising the ire of the Chinese authorities and/or the open source community.  It had to die off.  I could be wrong about this, but I really don't think so.

So where does this leave us?  I believe our best bets for good and secure browsers are now with Firefox, Chromium, Chrome, Brave and Vivaldi.  That's about it.  I haven't had enough experience with Iridium, Pale Moon, Balsilisk, or Iron to comment upon those browsers at present.  I would imagine they're all pretty good too -- even if they're a little behind with code development (as is Chromium at times).
We're all Peppermint users and that's what matters  ;).  -- AndyInMokum

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #283 on: March 07, 2019, 03:45:41 pm »
@spence

If you used the stock version of ICE that's included with Peppermint at the moment .. all settings that apply to a main Vivaldi browser session also applies to ALL Vivaldi SSB's (because they all use the same standard profile).

So any changes you make to the normal Vivaldi window such as plugins, etc. also apply to ALL Vivaldi SSB's.

There is ONLY profile separation in Firefox SSB's .. though this will change in the next version of ICE
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Offline spence

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Re: Best Browser
« Reply #284 on: March 07, 2019, 05:33:44 pm »
Quote
True in the basic browser perk, but not when it's an SSB... -- spence

Sorry, spence.  That I do not know.  I haven't used ICE in ages. :-\

Sorta curious, given your level of safety and security anxiety studiousness, I figured you'd appreciate opening every web application in the isolated containers a Firefox SSB creates. Effectively each SSB is blocking websites from following you around the web. If I understand this and PCNetSpec's explanations all correctly? Meanwhile, my hubster's of the mind that they have everything on us already and he can't be too overly concerned. In our case that means Putin knows everything too, for they have a long conjoined history.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 05:48:40 pm by spence »
spence
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