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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2017, 01:35:01 pm »
"don't want to" is a user choice, and I'd expect the fine print you agreed to to already contain info saying they aren't responsible for data security.

"can't" get online is a different matter .. they would be legally obliged to provide the service for the length of the contract or for a "reasonable" amount of time if they sold you the device off contract.

Truth is if you read the contract, they probably made you sign something releasing them from any responsibility for updates and/or security .. and are then only loosely tied to the grey area of "fit for purpose" laws and regulations.

If you think corporations work to any "moral" obligations, I'm pretty sure you're a time traveller ;)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 01:36:47 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline murraymint

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2017, 01:36:27 pm »
I didn't sign any contract, I just bought a Chinese phone in the supermarket. Points all taken though, it's a ridiculous situation that many of us just accept.

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2017, 01:39:10 pm »
Well you DID create a contract by the simple act of buying it .. but that contract was only really "statutory rights" including "fit for purpose".
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Offline murraymint

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2017, 01:45:32 pm »
I don't expect any public communications to be secure, I just have some sympathy for the poor saps who do.

Offline perknh

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2017, 03:31:36 pm »
Let's hear it for London-based Wileyfox.  I'd like to see stock Android come to more Android phones.  Then I can decide what I want to install. (Does this philosophy sound familiar? ;) )

When The Radical Answer Is A Switch To Pure Android

By Ewan Spence for Forbes

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2017/06/01/wileyfox-cyanogen-android-switch/#737bac7e34e8
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Offline perknh

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2017, 04:40:27 pm »
The reason why we want our Android phones to have up-to-date kernels and up-to-date software is to have more secure and more functional phones.  Google's newer updating policies will be doing nothing for the vast majority of Android devices on the market right now.  If we can still assume that somewhere around 900,000 Android devices get activated daily*, then this means that at least hundreds of millions (perhaps billions by now) of Android phones on the market will derive no benefit from an improved updating policy coming to Android Kernel O in near future.  This is a sad state of affairs. :(

In the article below, Emily Bary, from Barron's Next, argues why iPhones really are the safer bet when it comes to smartphone security. :'( 

Android vs. iOS: Are iPhones Really Safer?

By Emily Bary

http://www.barrons.com/articles/android-vs-ios-are-iphones-really-safer-1496254475



* Source, from 2012, citing Android's/Chrome OS's 900,000 activations daily.

Q&A session with Linus Torvalds: Why is Linux not competitive on desktop?
Code: [Select]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2017, 05:59:54 pm »
Honestly, Google won't do anything helpful with their upgrade policies because they're working with the device manufacturers.  By not upgrading a phone's OS, they're ensuring that a phone will only be safe and secure for a certain amount of time.  The manufacturers' answer?  Buy a new phone.  Google isn't going to simply give you updates forever, thereby negating the necessity to continuously buy a new phone until the hardware becomes damaged or wears out over time.  If they do that, then the device manufacturers aren't going to want to use Android, and then Google won't make any money either.  By holding back upgrades, they're forcing people to buy phones and the OEMs will keep using Android because everyone profits.  (except the end user)  So, that is, in a nutshell, why you're never going to see a helpful change to Google's upgrade policy.  Hell, they won't even upgrade Chrome OS after a certain amount of time.  ::)  They don't want you using the same device indefinitely because they make a lot of money off of new devices.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 06:02:05 pm by scifidude79 »

Offline perknh

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2017, 04:18:53 pm »
The only way to install a new version of Android is to root the device, which most people don't know how to do and it can also turn the device into a brick.  So, I don't see how it's a reasonable expectation that the end user can update it when it's neither easy or quick.  Plus, some people have phones that cost hundreds of dollars (or whatever they're using) and they may not want to risk bricking them.

Android sure isn't GNU/LInux . If you'd like to have support and basic software, stay right here with Peppermint.  Software is easy to come by; support and community.  We can play with Peppermint to our heart's content, and nobody cares.  But it's tougher and tougher to play with Android.  Cyanogen is dead, and Google Play can now stop a person who has rooted his or her phone from downloading particular apps. :o

Google Play can now prevent rooted users from downloading certain apps

By Scott Adam Gordon for Android Authority

http://www.androidauthority.com/google-play-store-apps-download-block-root-users-773824/
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 06:04:23 pm by perknh »
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2017, 09:50:25 am »
It's a good thing I don't root my phone, because I've got to have my Netflix.  The funny part is that it's the app developers who decide if their app can be installed on your rooted phone, yet everyone is blaming Google.  All Google did was put the tools there, it's the devs who will use it or not.

It's this simple:  Illegally modified equipment is insecure.  It can be blocked from  certain content because of the security risks.  This is no different than Sony and Microsoft booting hacked Playstations and XBOXes from their networks.  Most people don't go to the trouble of hacking a device just to use it normally, they usually have something illegal in mind.  So, it's their fault for hacking (rooting) their phones.  If they had just used it normally, they would be fine.  So, I have no sympathy for them, nor am I applauding Google or the app developers for this move.  It simply is what it is.  If you use your stuff normally, it won't affect you.  I love Peppermint for home and laptop use, but it won't do anything for my phone or tablet.  For those, I need a mobile OS, so I have to play by Google's rules.  I'm sure Apple has something similar or worse in place for people who hack iPhones.  (besides, I won't buy or regularly use an Apple product)

Offline murraymint

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2017, 10:34:20 am »
It's illegal to be root on your own device? Really?  :o

Offline perknh

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2017, 12:18:37 pm »
It's funny, I never even thought about the legality of rooting a phone.  All I've ever wanted to do was to remove battery-zapping, space-taking bloatware, and, at least back in the days of Cyanogenmod, have an updated kernel.  The legality of any of this never even crossed my mind.  Still, it's becoming more and more clear to me now that rooting a phone can be unwise.

Ideally, I'd like to have several things from a smartphone:  relative ease of use, a reasonable sense of privacy and security, and the ability to remove programs I don't want.  I don't consider any of these expectations unreasonable.  I think security will be getting better for us, scifidude79 and murraymint, with upcoming Android version O.  Also any of us can throw a launcher on our phones for ease of use, but the ability to get rid of all that resource-draining bloatware, I still don't see that coming to Android anytime soon --at least within the budget phone market. (I would hope that those who will be buying Pixels soon be able to get rid of the apps they don't want.  I mean, for that kind of money, they ought to be able to.) 
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Offline murraymint

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2017, 12:29:14 pm »
I think my Android phone was already rooted when I bought it. I don't see how that's any more or less secure than rooting one yourself.

Also, the Google Play store is providing the tools to root Android phones so they can't be too bothered about the legality/security of it.

Offline perknh

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2017, 12:59:04 pm »
Hi murraymint,

Actually, I've never found any app that will root your phone in Google Play.  If found found apps that will work IF your phone is rooted, and I've found apps that will check to see if your phone is rooted, but none that will root your phone.  My understanding is that risk of rooting your phone from an unknown, third-party is that in order to be able to root your phone, this third-party source has to have discovered a vulnerability within the programming of the phone.  Theoretically, this outside source could then, at least for a while, have access to your phone's info --which might include your personal information.  (I not saying they would all do this.  I'm just saying could have access,at least for a spell.  And having root access can be dangerous IF the root access is in the wrong hands.

Here's an example, for instance, of root access getting into the wrong hands.

Quote
The goal of Dvmap seems to have been to enable the installation of apps with root level permissions from third party stores. --Kris Carlon

perknh

PS

I'm certain that vast majority of rooted phones, including yours, are fine. ;)

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Offline murraymint

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2017, 01:03:45 pm »
Hi perknh,

you're probably right. I don't use many apps and you've done more research into this than I have. I only bought an Android phone because I needed an alternative means of internet connection for emergencies.

When you download a rooting tool from the internet, you're trusting unknown programmers. Guess what; when you buy a phone with an OS on it, you're doing the same thing. The more we discuss this, the more obvious it is where the power lies in smartphone software.

Offline perknh

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Re: Google making cheap Android phones support its latest software
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2017, 01:58:38 pm »
Yeah, our data is ALWAYS being collected by someone, that's for sure.  I ditched my smartphone for awhile, not liking all the permissions I had to agree with.  Then, here in the US, we got a new president and a new set of rules concerning the collection of our data by our own ISPs.  For me, that changed how I look at everything.  Until recently, I'd use a dumbphone for my calls and text, and I'd use Peppermint at home to check the weather, email, news, etc.  BEFORE, I felt I had SOME sense of privacy, but now I feel I have none.  If this is the case, the hell with it:  I say spread the data around!

Now, I'll check my email wherever I want.  With the humble exception of our GNU/Linux distributions, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is collecting data on us now. (Dumbphones, smartphones, home phones, towers, street cameras, store cameras, satellites, search engines, OSes, computers in cars, traceable printers, etc.)   

I figure I have to choose  --either become a Luddite, or stay active and participate in first half of the 21st century.  Given these two options, at least for now, I've chosen the latter option. ;)
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