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Author Topic: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE[Closed]  (Read 2274 times)

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harishpathangay

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Hi,
I do not know why Ubuntu is giving me one OS for One DE?

Ubuntu Gnome, Ubuntu Mate, Xubuntu, Ubuntu Budgie, Kubuntu, Peppermint and goes on....
So much of redundancy here?

Individually for each and every Desktop has it own thing going on as a separate project by itself. Eventually every DE developer provides those packages in Ubuntu Repos/Debian Repos/Arch Repos/Suse/Fedora Repos. the list goes on.

If I run XFCE 4.12 then I get the same in any environment, irrespective of Linux Distro. If Ubuntu is providing certain utilities specific to their spin off, they can always provide in a place accessible to every body.

Another thing is: I do not see other Linux distributions doing this. I will explain.
Mageia - is one OS - I can install XFCE,LXDE,Plasma,Gnome etc.. as I please. They do ship individual ISOs. But there is one OS and one help forum for that OS.
Sparky - is one OS - I can install XFCE,LXDE,Plasma,Gnome etc.. as I please. They do ship individual ISO But there is one OS and one help forum for that OS.
same with Antergos,SUSE,Arch etc...
Why do they want so many OS and so many communities and members for that OS. It is just multiplying things.

My thinking is Do all the thing for Mate or XFCE or Gnome or what ever, but just give me one repository.  I can always add to my list of repositories and add to my software. Now this is where SMART work pitches in. One DE should be as isolated from other DE. I can independently install any DEs and use the utilities and tools specific to that DE. The thing is my Base System is a bare bone Ubuntu. That is all.

Please do not give me Project Goals - as Answer - that has become the most used cheesy pickup line in a Linux movie. Hah Hah Just Kidding!!!!

Thanks,
Harish Pathangay
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 12:52:55 am by harishpathangay »

Offline zebedeeboss

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 10:45:15 am »
That would be like saying we live on planet earth - give me one language please.

It simply is not going to happen.   Different people have different tastes.   Different people write code in a different way.

It is the diversity of Linux that makes it as good as it is.  One programmer produces a particular program or a particular tool for use with gnome desktop and an xfce programmer says "Cool but I can do that better" and goes off and does his thing.    Coded in a different way for a different Desktop Environment.

Quote
Another thing is: I do not see other Linux distributions doing this. I will explain.
Mageia - is one OS - I can install XFCE,LXDE,Plasma,Gnome etc.. as I please. They do ship individual ISOs. But there is one OS and one help forum for that OS.
Sparky - is one OS - I can install XFCE,LXDE,Plasma,Gnome etc.. as I please. They do ship individual ISO But there is one OS and one help forum for that OS.
same with Antergos,SUSE,Arch etc...
Why do they want so many OS and so many communities and members for that OS. It is just multiplying things.

1... by your way of thinking, why is there a Sparky Forum?  It is based on Debian so lets all use the Debian Forum.
2... Antergos is based on Arch.  So lets all go use the Arch Forum.
If you are going to present an argument to back up your way of thinking, best to make sure the argument is not full of holes  :P

Now someone else will come along and tell you the "Technical" reasons why what you are asking for is not possible.   I am not a coder, just a user and I for one enjoy the variety Linux provides and spend a lot of my time "Distro Hopping" finding out more and more about how Linux "hangs" together.

Take your time learning Linux, understanding will not come overnight...  it has taken me since 2009 to realise just how good Linux is.

and as much as you dislike it, "Project goals" play a big part in Linux.

Regards Zeb...
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 11:18:39 am by zebedeeboss »
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harishpathangay

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 11:52:30 am »
I did not say like that about forums consolidation based on base system.

Quote
1... by your way of thinking, why is there a Sparky Forum?  It is based on Debian so lets all use the Debian Forum.
2... Antergos is based on Arch.  So lets all go use the Arch Forum

Sparky has one forum - I use LXDE/XFCE/LxQt desktops on it. It does not have individual forums for individual desktops[for the moment I assume] which is just running on top of Base system.

let me ask you a question rather.
Is all Ubuntu GNOME,MATE,Budgie,Unity all are from Canonical right? but each with a different project goal and with a different default DE. Having different default DE is not a project goal right? or Do you see It is? :o

Why are you not naming a system or OS based on Project Goals - The name should be indicative of project goals rather than default DE.
If some body is developing variation of Ubuntu focussing on Wayland instead of X org, then name the OS accordingly. If there are multiple objectives focus on the primary or heavily marketed objective.
Something like Ubuntu Snappy Core OS - if the Ubuntu is based on snappy packages. I hope it is on the way. Don't give me a default desktop and name it as Ubuntu XYZ DE.
I think that is where I am getting confused.

Thanks,
HP

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2017, 12:13:15 pm »
Ubuntu can be loaded with any desktop you like .. the rest are just PRECONFIGURED one way or the other.

in fact this SAVES redundancy, not causes it .. redundancy would be having them all included in one ISO when the user is likely to only use one.

Why would anyone want all the qt support libraries if they're going to only use say Xfce ? .. but that's not to say the can't also install KDE if they want.

It's just a matter of preconfiguration of the Live ISO, keeping the size down, and not DE's  that will be redundant for the majority of users.

Not everyone wants their PC clogged up with DE's they'll likely never use .. and it's ALWAYS easier to add a DE than remove one cleanly.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 12:21:28 pm by PCNetSpec »
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harishpathangay

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 01:11:43 pm »
oh ok. let me see I get it right this time.

Sparky is maintaining one website that caters to all variants of iso images.

Ubuntu is maintain multiple websites for each live iso's they offer.
Even the communities  although different websites drills down to shared resources under Ubuntu or Canonical Umbrella Corporation [a Resident Evil Pun  :)]
Who know PcNetSpec might also be a developer or moderator on a Ubuntu Mate forum. I see different websites but underlying they are just from same people in back ground. It is all about economics and funding.
It is not like they are having various different project goals specific to the DE or some thing.

Did I get it?

thanks,
harish pathangay

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 01:18:38 pm »
Nope I have no connections to Canonical or Ubuntu.

It's just a different way of doing the same thing really .. and Ubuntu do only have one support forum.

Unlike Sparky though L/X/K/Ubuntu/etc. all have different TEAMS working on their respective ISO's, so it makes sense they have their own website outlets for news/announcements/etc.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 01:20:25 pm by PCNetSpec »
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harishpathangay

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 01:33:58 pm »
Okay. thanks very much for enlightening me.
I will take more time to assimilate things. I am just beginning.

thanks,
harish p

Offline mac

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 03:03:52 pm »
harishpathangay

I'm not suggesting you abandon Peppermint but if it's a base install you want with easy access to various Desktop Environments and Window Managers you might want to take a look at antiX (antix.mepis.org).  You can download the base install and build whatever you want from there.  It is based on Debian but you can find most packages in Debian that you would find in Ubuntu.  If you do that pay attention to the library files, etc. that each DE brings in with it and you'll begin to understand some of what PCNetSpec is trying to explain.  Just a suggestion.   ;)

cheers
mac
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 11:11:27 pm »
Fedora does the same thing.  Their main OS has the GNOME desktop, but they also offer Fedora with pretty much any DE under the sun, in order to appeal to various tastes.  Variety is the spice of life, and offering multiple options may keep users from going to a different distribution to get the DE they want.  That's why companies like Canonical and Red Hat offer so many options.

harishpathangay

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2017, 12:52:19 am »
I am just beginning things here and Linux also, not much of a distribution hopper. In fact I was using Xubuntu for  2 years then switched to PM with a brief stint with Lubuntu.I had Antix only for recovery CD. Something not bootable happens I get into Antix Live and ask help. But even I stopped that and written a DVD with PM 7 ISO.I like PM and I will stay with PM in fact I am using PM from V6 and now upgraded to V7. The only thing I messed up is install way too many DE's thinking that I am learning some thing new or an enthusiastic thing. But then I wonder now why I did it. Mostly every Linux newbie will do that and I consider as part of learning by mistake or experience. Any ways, there is no way better than learning a system better by breaking it. Then you come to notice the "behind the scenes" part.

The only exception being LxQt that too with Breeze set up is a personal choice for me other than PDE. If LxQt did not have the Breeze widget I would not be that much interested. But definitely yes the recent builds with their LxQt theming is as desirable and invoke "when can I see you?" kind of interest. But for some reason I always thought that people do not make Linux Choices based on GUI. I thought I am only thinking that way because I am a newbie.
I cannot definitely deny the fact that my decision for sticking with PM has to do with active community. I have seen Linux forums where the latest discussion happened on 2014 but they do have 2017 ISO. May the users are more knowledgeable. 2-3 years of "keeping mum"[Again a pun with movie titles :)] in a forum. I am afraid that I will get help or not if I mess my install - I was getting the hang of BIOS/Grub install and how HDD partitions work - but to my misfortune particularly UEFI has added to the complexity of the equation for me.

I am just a beginner in Linux Journey. Miles to go before I sleep [I hope I got the correct lines from the poem].

thanks,
harish p

harishpathangay

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE[Closed]
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2017, 12:11:12 pm »
I am going to be blunt. I think I was misguided by PcNetSpec and by the group in general in this question, even after closed, that is why I am discussing it. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Quote
Unlike Sparky though L/X/K/Ubuntu/etc. all have different TEAMS working on their respective ISO's, so it makes sense they have their own website outlets for news/announcements/etc.

Distrowatch.com has an announcement from "Simon Quigley" and he is announcing the alpha release of so many multiple community editions of Ubuntu at the same time.
They are different Teams but of the same bigger organization or something. Or they work closely to synchronize their activities together for spin off releases of Ubuntu. Even in that case it becomes One humongous virtual community for one DE catering bundling of every DE with the same base system.
Ubuntu is indeed providing "One OS for one DE".

I am only guessing this, because such a huge interaction and synchronization of releases of various teams indicates they operate under a bigger objective.

that was my initial question. All community editions are from same parent organization. I think it is then true "all OS is from same organization". For every DE they have one OS exclusively built for it "Ubuntu XYZ". They put resources into development, QA, maintain multiple websites, multiple forums for each distribution etc.

if I am correct then some body has got more money to spend on resources. Or am I still wrong?

Thanks,
Harish Pathangay

Offline mac

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE[Closed]
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2017, 12:24:07 pm »
Sorry, harishpathangay, I'm sure it's me but I'm having a hard time understanding your last post.   ???  What's your point or what is it exactly you're trying to say?  Thanks.

cheers
mac
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harishpathangay

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE[Closed]
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2017, 12:26:31 pm »
or, is there some broader objective for bringing in various spin off of Ubuntu CE's together in synch. why there is such an obligation if they are from different parts of the world and independent teams or OS or communities or organizations or groups by themselves.

All Dev/QA/Release activities are managed under single roof?

these kind of questions only make me think are they from same organization? I have no idea. If any body knows please let me know.
I am not saying it is a bad thing to do. But just want to understand the way it is.

thanks,
harish pathangay

Offline mac

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE[Closed]
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2017, 12:40:49 pm »
That will have to remain a mystery here as I don't think any of us are privy to Ubuntu's internal objectives, memos, etc.  Why not try asking on the Ubuntu forum?  Maybe someone there can be of more assistance regarding such matters.   
At any rate, thanks for "clarifying."   ;)

cheers
mac
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 02:11:13 pm by mac »
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Offline VinDSL

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Re: Why Ubuntu is providing so many OS dedicated for each and every DE[Closed]
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2017, 01:20:17 pm »
All Dev/QA/Release activities are managed under single roof?

these kind of questions only make me think are they from same organization? I have no idea. If any body knows please let me know.

I am not saying it is a bad thing to do. But just want to understand the way it is.


Maybe, this will help to clarify it for you.

SOURCE:  https://goo.gl/U93KZ

Hope you have a WIDE monitor ...   ;D

« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 01:24:09 pm by VinDSL, Reason: Addendum »