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Author Topic: Debian considering automated updates and upgrades  (Read 1032 times)

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Offline perknh

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Debian considering automated updates and upgrades
« on: December 24, 2016, 07:04:27 am »
Debian considering automated upgrades

By Derniers

https://anarc.at/blog/2016-12-22-debian-considering-automated-upgrades/

And this --from DistroWatch as well. 

I suspect you would not be a big fan of this idea, PCNetSpec.  There are definitely pros and cons to the idea --that's for sure.  And would this upstream idea eventually make its way downstream to us?  I suspect you may know some of the names here.

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« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 07:08:15 am by perknh »
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Debian considering automated updates and upgrades
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2016, 07:22:01 am »
It sounds like it would just be a default setting that updates are set to automatic.  I'm sure it could be changed on the user level.

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Debian considering automated updates and upgrades
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2016, 08:01:09 am »
Yeah they're just talking about installing the "unattended-upgrades" package by OOTB, and enabling it for certain updates.

You can do that now in Peppermint if you wish.

I'd never do it by default though...

a) I consider updates an "administration" task, for the admin to do ONLY when he's good and ready.

and

b) aren't auto updates one of the main things Linux users b*tch about in Windows ?

I think Debian will be making a HUGE mistake enabling it by default, it will p*ss a LOT of people off (specially server including "cloud server", and corporate worksation sysadmins, which make up a LOT of the Debian user base) .. it'd be better if for "desktop" Debian they just had a more visible update-manager like Mint (and us), maybe with the OPTION to ENABLE auto-updates via a simple switch in that update-manager .. but NOT OOTB, remember Debian is used by a lot of corporations because of its stability, sysadmins will NOT be happy with computers that auto update without them stress/stability testing updates before rolling them out at their pace so they can keep an eye out for problems and know what caused them.

The focus seems to on "cloud" instances, but how many of those aren't "administered", and a I can't see admins being happy with unattended upgrades.

It WILL be easy to switch off, but it should be an opt-IN admin task, not an opt-OUT one .. and it's opt-IN already.

This actually surprises the heck outa me .. it's something you'd expect say Mint or Ubuntu to do, and Debian to be up in arms about :-\
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 08:23:05 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline perknh

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Re: Debian considering automated updates and upgrades
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2016, 08:28:02 am »
,,,aren't auto updates one of the main things Linux users b*tch about in Windows ?

Yes, they happen at the most inopportune moments.  >:(
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Debian considering automated updates and upgrades
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2016, 08:31:56 am »
The updates or the bitching?  Or both?

Yeah, I don't see why any Linux distro would enable that by default, unless they want to bleed users.  Freedom is definitely one of the things users love about Linux over Windows.  Sure, it can be undone, but system admins in companies may not want to do that, especially on multiple computers.  Home users who are less tech savvy won't like having this and won't realize it can be undone.  This is something that should be left up to the end user, as it is now.

Offline perknh

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Re: Debian considering automated updates and upgrades
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2016, 08:40:55 am »
Home users who are less tech savvy won't like having this and won't realize it can be undone.  This is something that should be left up to the end user, as it is now.

Yeah, that would be people like me.  I don't know how to undo an update.  Yes, I have thought about it before, but that was a long time ago with Windows.  :-\

I've seen updates break functionality in the Windows Vista and in Windows 8.1.  Updates don't always help things.  Even in Linux, with the last Opera beta update I got, I started having a new problem with Opera --but I expect that with beta.  That experience is part of what the beta experience is all about.

But, back to autoupdates, having them would make Debian more like Chrome OS.  I never expected I would see anything like that with Debian.  But it's still an idea, that's all.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 08:53:55 am by perknh »
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Debian considering automated updates and upgrades
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2016, 09:21:12 am »
Yeah, the whole reason for putting an idea like this out there on the web is to gauge reactions to it.  This will give them an idea of how receptive (or not) people will be to the idea.

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Debian considering automated updates and upgrades
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2016, 09:30:08 am »
It'll  be interesting to see peoples reaction, but I'm gonna predict it won't be good :o

It'll also be interesting to see if Debian listen to public opinion or just forge ahead regardless .. which sadly seems to be becoming the norm with some distros lately :(

[EDIT]

The distrowatch announcement mentions "security" updates .. these will often include such things as kernel and bootloader updates, which will be pointless unless the system also auto reboots to load them .. I can't see updates that may break your system followed by Windows style auto reboots going down well, can you ? :o
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 09:34:54 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: Debian considering automated updates and upgrades
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2016, 09:45:32 am »
The distrowatch announcement mentions "security" updates .. these will often include such things as kernel and bootloader updates, which will be pointless unless the system also auto reboots to load them .. I can't see updates that may break your system followed by Windows style auto reboots going down well, can you ? :o

No way
, Ray!

This is something that really does not affect me directly, but I still find it interesting.

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Offline GNULINUX

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Re: Debian considering automated updates and upgrades
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2016, 10:09:13 am »
 NO !
Automatic updates/grades are like a built-in backdoor! Opt-in is OK but opt-out isn't...  >:(
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