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Offline cost

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Always safe to update?
« on: October 22, 2016, 08:30:27 am »
Is it always safe to update Peppermint?

Last time I updated it I saw some update called "linux-image-extra" or something like that, is it something related to kernel and critical to update?

I'm using my 4gb amd  just for programming purposes and when I installed P7 it was a pain to replace the right library to run Android Studio emulators. I finally have the system I never accomplished to build with Windows  (Android Studio too slow and native emulators impossible to run), so I don't want to end up losing the perfect balance I have now.

To sum up, I'd like to know if there's any stability risk associated to updates.

Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: Always safe to update?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2016, 08:36:15 am »
Hi cost,

To avoid repeating what I wrote earlier today: read this reply on the forum.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

-- Slim
"Life first -- Peppermint a close 2nd!" -- Zeb

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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Always safe to update?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2016, 08:40:35 am »
There is ALWAYS a small risk to changing ANYTHING on your computer but you have to weight that against added security/functionality/etc.

Yes, that was part of a kernel update .. this one in particular is a good idea to accept as it fixes a known kernel (copy-on-write) vulnerability, see here:
https://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php/topic,4526.0.html

So sure, don't accept updates and there's less risk of a problem caused by the update, but more risk from other vectors such as exploits. And when you consider you can always manually boot the earlier kernel effectively bypassing any problems caused by a kernel update, I for one would rather have the added security ;)

The  Linux repository / update mechanism is a thing of beauty and one of the mainstay's for keeping you safe and secure, it's the envy of Apple and Microsoft who're both trying to move to a similar (but badly implemented) model .. I just don't get why anyone would CHOOSE to subvert it, but I guess it's their computer and data ???

Team Peppermint advise you accept ALL updates, including kernel updates (this is why the update-manager is set this way out of the box)  .. on the very rare occasion when a kernel update breaks something, you can still choose to boot the earlier kernel from the GRUB > Advanced menu.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 09:16:34 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline cost

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Re: Always safe to update?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2016, 03:19:34 am »
Thanks for the clear explanation!

Just have another dummy question :D

Has Peppermint anything of different from Ubuntu regarding the updating process?

I mean, as a lazy noob I just like the idea of being stable for 6 months without any os update (it's fine for me just updating programs) - as I understand Ubuntu never updates any key stuff for 6 months, while other distros like Arch get constantly updated  (I'm trying manjaro netbook on my netbook and I'm getting tired to see 90/100 updates every week  ??? ). That's the idea I have about Ubuntu updates, and therefore I wasn't expecting any kernel updates on Peppermint but I may be totally wrong since it's everything new for me and I'm learning :)


Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: Always safe to update?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2016, 04:33:42 am »
Hi cost, how's it going?  I think you're confusing updates with new distro releases.  Peppermint 7 follows the Ubuntu updates plus its own updates from the Peppermint repo.  Peppermint 7 is based on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS (Long Term Support).  This means that this release will receive updates for five years.  Support for Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, will end at the end of April 2021.  The LTS versions are launched every two years.  In between these releases are two releases per year.  One in April and one in November.  These each receive support for only nine months.  These releases are generally considered testing releases in preparation for the the LTS versions.  For the moment Peppermint is only following the LTS release cycle.  The LTS cycle also has point releases.  For example, Peppermint 8 will be based on Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS.

You'll receive regular security updates and upgrades throughout the life of Peppermint 7.  There's no fixed schedule.  You'll receive them as they become available.  They're by no means as frequent as the Arch updates.  Arch and Arch based distros unlike Ubuntu, utilise software that's in a perpetual state of testing.  It's considered, Unstable and requires constant attention and refinement from the devs.  Ubuntu and Ubuntu based distros use much stabler software.  This means less maintenance and fewer updates  ;)

It's strongly advised to leave the Peppermint 7 update settings as they are.  In other words, don't touch them.  You can adjust the update frequency manually if you want.  This means fewer updates but bigger, or more frequent updates but smaller.  The choice is yours  ;D.   When you see a blue exclamation mark in the update shield that's located in the panel.  Click on it and follow the update instructions.  You don't have to watch it.  It'll install everything in the background.  If there's a kernel update, you'll be required to reboot your machine to complete the process.  This doesn't mean you've to do this immediately.  Just carry on as normal.  The next time you reboot, you'll be using the new kernel.  If in the very rare event the new kernel causes an issue.  You can very simply fall back to the previous working kernel.  New kernels do not automatically delete old kernels.  They only replace them.  The only way to remove a kernel is to do it manually.  A kernel update is a routine procedure, it's a non-issue.  At anytime, you can manually check and install updates by entering the following commands into a terminal window in sequence:
Code: [Select]
sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
followed by:
Code: [Select]
sudo apt dist-upgrade
It's as easy as that  ;).
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 04:40:37 am by AndyInMokum »
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Always safe to update?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2016, 04:49:56 am »
As Andy suggests, you're confusing "updates" and "new distro releases" .. and "updates to a fresh release" with "rolling release"

Arch works as a rolling release, there's no new fresh release every 6 months, instead it continuously just updates, so **theoretically** never needs reinstalling (until it breaks).

Ubuntu on the other hand do a fresh base release every 6 months, these fresh releases DO receive updates throughout their lifetime (including the kernel) but will always stay within the same kernel "series".

There seems to be a lot of interest in rolling releases lately, and at first it "sounds" like a good idea, but in my experience it more often than not seems to "stack up" issues until your system eventually breaks .. I'm yet to come across (what I personally would consider) a stable rolling release.

Peppermint follow the Ubuntu method, but instead of a fresh base release every 6 months we release every 12 months .. every release being based on the latest Ubuntu long term support release.

Peppermint 7 **WILL** receive updates throughout its lifetime in exactly the same way Ubuntu 16.04 (which it's based on) receives updates, but there will be a fresh version (Peppermint 8) in about 7-8 months.

In short, we're like Ubuntu, not a rolling release like Arch ;)
(in fact we're based on Ubuntu and make use of their repositories, so we MUST follow their policy)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 07:47:01 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline cost

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Re: Always safe to update?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2016, 05:26:42 am »
Great stuff guys, I finally understand linux updates much better!  8)

Offline acer

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Re: Always safe to update?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2016, 04:37:33 pm »
This to me, is even more reassuring compared to other OSes that are having problems with upgrades and updates.  :D
Nice explanation guys!