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Author Topic: More cautious Update Manager settings in next Peppermint?  (Read 2099 times)

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Online VinDSL

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Re: More cautious Update Manager settings in next Peppermint?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2016, 12:01:44 pm »
Great site BTW, you do a lot of people a real service with those tutorials .. I know I've used them before :)

I've been pointing users, here and elsewhere, to the Ubu SSD optimization page for years.   :)

I'd implemented most of the suggestions prior to discovering that page, based on my own trial n' error experiences in Ubu testing, so we're in total concurrence on the tweaks.  Can't argue with 3-second Peppermint boot times !

I think these discussions are born out of a misunderstanding of how Peppermint is stitched together -- that's all.

Personally, I'm all for locking the options, now that the cat is out of the bag, so to speak.  If someone wants to take the time and trouble to unlock the options and diddle with them, they're (probably) smart enough to chroot their install, once it goes awry .    8)

EDIT

Might as well post an easy to follow chroot article (picked at randow), just in case:

LINK:  http://www.webupd8.org/2014/01/how-to-fix-non-bootable-ubuntu-system.html  (replace the word 'Ubuntu' with 'Peppermint')

This may become your best friend, if you start playing around with the Peppermint OS underpinnings.  I suggest bookmarking it ...  LoL !
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 12:21:35 pm by VinDSL, Reason: Addendum »

Pjotr

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Re: More cautious Update Manager settings in next Peppermint?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2016, 12:34:17 pm »
Removing the metapackages would effectively block kernel updates and shouldn't bother mintupdate at all .. obviously this is still not our advised policy for the same reason in the hypothetical example (maybe more so as effectively pinning 'just' the kernel may allow other packages, particularly things like xorg/graphics drivers through that may rely on the newer kernel .. though I'd have to think some more on that one because if packaged correctly the control file *should* stop that happening, though again there's no guaranteed the Ubuntu package maintainer will take this into account as it's not what he expects to happen)
Thanks for the answer. That's a relief.

I don't expect problems for the graphics stack. The graphics stack in Ubuntu LTS only gets updated in point releases that contain a kernel from a newer series (I expect both such a newer kernel series and a newer graphics stack in Ubuntu 16.04.2 and its successors).

But when you stick to the default kernel series for your Ubuntu version (which is the 4.4.x for Ubuntu 16.04 en 16.04.1), you shouldn't get that newer graphics stack ever.

That's how it worked in Trusty (14.04.x), so I expect it to be likewise in Xenial.  :)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 12:36:31 pm by Pjotr »

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: More cautious Update Manager settings in next Peppermint?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2016, 12:48:55 pm »
@Pjotr

You're most likely correct, and as you say there's currently nothing in /usr/lib/linuxmint/mintUpdate/rules that I see as a problem , but that was just another (possibly bad) example, but the point still stands ;)

@VinDSL

I really don't want to "block" the "option", there will always be cases where modifying defaults can cause harm but I don't want to turn Peppermint into a totally locked down OS X alike :)

I wonder if just adding a "don't change the settings below unless you know what you're doing" warning to levels tab of mintupdate > preferences would be a better idea ?

Another option may be to simply have a blank /usr/lib/linuxmint/mintUpdate/rules but again that removes CHOICE and I assume would list all packages as "safe" ???

I'm gonna need to give this some thought.....
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 01:00:01 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Online VinDSL

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Re: More cautious Update Manager settings in next Peppermint?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2016, 01:08:05 pm »
Guess we could extend the data request in support  ...   ;D

Code: [Select]
╭─vindsl@Boogaloo-5 ~  
╰─➤  inxi -Fz && cat /usr/lib/linuxmint/mintUpdate/rules

Spoiler (click here to view / hide)
╭─vindsl@Boogaloo-5 ~ 
╰─➤  inxi -Fz && cat /usr/lib/linuxmint/mintUpdate/rules
System:    Host: Boogaloo-5 Kernel: 4.4.0-38-generic x86_64 (64 bit)
           Desktop: N/A Distro: Peppermint Seven
Machine:   System: Dell product: OptiPlex 7010 v: 01
           Mobo: Dell model: 0GXM1W v: A02 Bios: Dell v: A23 date: 08/09/2016
CPU:       Quad core Intel Core i5-3470 (-MCP-) cache: 6144 KB
           clock speeds: max: 3600 MHz 1: 1854 MHz 2: 1861 MHz 3: 1886 MHz
           4: 1887 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA Device 128b
           Display Server: X.Org 1.18.4 driver: nvidia
           Resolution: 1280x1024@60.02hz, 1280x1024@60.02hz, 1366x768@59.79hz
           GLX Renderer: GeForce GT 710/PCIe/SSE2
           GLX Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 370.28
Audio:     Card-1 Intel 7 Series/C210 Series Family High Definition Audio Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel
           Card-2 NVIDIA GK208 HDMI/DP Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.4.0-38-generic
Network:   Card: Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection driver: e1000e
           IF: eno1 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 250.1GB (6.9% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: Samsung_SSD_850 size: 250.1GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 20G used: 5.3G (29%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda5
           ID-2: /home size: 30G used: 9.8G (35%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda6
           ID-3: swap-1 size: 0.54GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda10
           ID-4: swap-2 size: 0.54GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda7
RAID:      No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 29.8C mobo: 27.8C gpu: 59C
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 204 Uptime: 3:46 Memory: 1391.8/16002.5MB
           Client: Shell (zsh) inxi: 2.2.35
banshee|*|2||
firefox|*|2||
thunderbird|*|2||
*language-pack|*|2||
*flashplugin|*|2||
*wine|*|2||
pidgin|*|2||
libreoffice|*|2||
chromium-browser|*|2||
dbus|*|4||
*xorg|*|4||
acpid|*|4||
mountall|*|4||
mesa|*|4||
systemd|*|4||
plymouth|*|4||
upstart|*|4||
*base-files|*|5||
*linux-|*|5||
linux|*|5||
grub|*|5||
grub2|*|5||
╭─vindsl@Boogaloo-5 ~ 
╰─➤
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: More cautious Update Manager settings in next Peppermint?
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2016, 01:18:20 pm »
There's little point, that file won't change unless I release an updated version of mintupdate .. which is kinda (part of) my point, our 'rules' file will not reflect changes made by Mint as workarounds because we don't update mintupdate when they do.
(in fact it's only likely to get changed in Peppermint 7 AT ALL if there's a security issue)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 01:22:05 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: More cautious Update Manager settings in next Peppermint?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2016, 01:41:22 pm »
You could add a note, something like this. 

"These are the recommended default settings for Peppermint.  It's advised not to modify them unless you're fully aware of the possible consequences".

This way, any user is made aware.  They can always ask if they don't understand anything  ;).
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Re: More cautious Update Manager settings in next Peppermint?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2016, 01:51:30 pm »
So far that's the way I'm leaning .. a simple warning.
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Pjotr

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Re: More cautious Update Manager settings in next Peppermint?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2016, 04:13:27 pm »
As for whether swappiness should be changed, this is up to the user, but it doesn't always follow that lowering swappiness will speed up a system, in fact it may slow it down .. there's a pretty good explanation of why as the ticked response here:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/184217/why-most-people-recommend-to-reduce-swappiness-to-10-20/184221#184221
Now that the mintupdate issue has been dealt with, I'd like to continue the discussion about the usefulness of lowering the swappiness....

I think this is is probably the best reply (by "Linux dude") in the askubuntu thread to which you referred:
http://askubuntu.com/a/475465

Another background article which I think hits the nail on the head:
https://rudd-o.com/linux-and-free-software/tales-from-responsivenessland-why-linux-feels-slow-and-how-to-fix-that

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Re: More cautious Update Manager settings in next Peppermint?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2016, 06:05:18 pm »
Sure, I wasn't saying "don't do it" .. just clarifying that it may not always have the desired effect, lowering swappiness is not a "one size fits all" panacea .. I just want people to be aware of this so they understand to monitor their system and decide for themselves if it helped, rather than just do it and forget about it.

It's not as simple as "hey there's stuff in my swap partition, that must be bad" .. it's more about Linux trying to intelligently predict then make room for more pressing stuff .. sometimes it'll get things right, sometimes it won't, but it all really depends what the user does (obviously along with RAM limitations / excesses).

I'm just saying be aware that a lower swappiness may not do what you expect, so keep an eye on things.

That said, my current setting is 10 so I'm not "against" it .. if it appears to speed things up, go for it ;)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 07:09:48 am by PCNetSpec »
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

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Re: More cautious Update Manager settings in next Peppermint?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2016, 01:29:21 am »
I know every rig is different, but for the sake of conversation, here are the settings I use ...

Code: [Select]
╭─vindsl@Boogaloo-5 ~  
╰─➤  sudo sysctl -p
kernel.shmmax = 100000000
vm.min_free_kbytes = 65536
vm.overcommit_memory = 0
vm.overcommit_ratio = 50
vm.dirty_background_ratio = 5
vm.dirty_ratio = 1
vm.swappiness = 1
net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 = 1
net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6 = 1
net.ipv6.conf.lo.disable_ipv6 = 1
net.ipv6.conf.eno1.disable_ipv6 = 1

3-second boot.  Peppermint 7 flies like the wind, no matter what I throw at it.