Author Topic: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?  (Read 24880 times)

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #75 on: November 03, 2016, 08:24:09 am »
Log off/on, then (without doing anything else first) immediately open a terminal and run:
Code: [Select]
ps aux | grep [n]emoand post any output.
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Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #76 on: November 03, 2016, 08:31:10 am »
Hi PCNetSpec,

There is no output. That is what is making me wonder why nemo is listed several times in the Bootchart output.  :-\

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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #77 on: November 03, 2016, 09:15:13 am »
How are you folks even running bootchart in Peppermint 7 ?
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Offline zebedeeboss

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2016, 09:35:28 am »
it's added to grub as per instructions from VinDSL on page 2
Code: [Select]
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="elevator=deadline apparmor=0 quiet splash init=/lib/systemd/systemd-bootchart"Regards Zeb...
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Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #79 on: November 03, 2016, 09:40:56 am »
I added

Code: [Select]
init=/lib/systemd/systemd-bootchart
as a kernel parameter to my grub.cfg file in /boot/grub.

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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #80 on: November 03, 2016, 12:54:46 pm »
Okay, I have no idea .. could it be simply the accelerators at
/etc/skel/.gnome2/accels/nemo
and
/home/<username>/.gnome2/accels/nemo
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Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #81 on: November 05, 2016, 07:33:56 am »
Okay, I have no idea .. could it be simply the accelerators at
/etc/skel/.gnome2/accels/nemo
and
/home/<username>/.gnome2/accels/nemo

Hi PCNetSpec et al.,

This might very well be the case. In another installation of Peppermint Seven where I have replaced the default desktop with Fluxbox the lxsession is not mentioned anywhere in the bootchart -- and nemo is also not listed.

In general I find the results in the bootchart output for the entries
Code: [Select]
Log start time:
and
Code: [Select]
Idle time:
to be be rather mysterious. :-\

My results do not make any sense (esecially when compared to those posted by VinDSL) in that the value for Idle time: (which VinDSL seems to interpret as the his "boot time") is definitely not my machine's boot time. In fact, its value is dependent on the parameter in the file
Code: [Select]
/etc/systemd/bootchart.conf
named Relative. When I set Relative=no then the Idle time is always the same as the Log start time value (ranging from 4.595s to 4.769s over three boots; but that is definitely not my machine's boot time, which actually is more like 20-25s).

Now for the best part: when I set Relative=yes then the Idle time (according to VinDSL, the boot time) changes to 0.000s !! Now that's what I call a fast boot -- and that's from a traditional HDD  :P (but what else should I expect: after all I am booting into Peppermint Seven)!

When I try to use my wrist watch to monitor my boot times they are consistently around 20-25 seconds (my start time is when I hit the Enter key at the GRUB menu and my end time is when the Lightdm login screen appears).

My conclusion is that (at least for me) bootchart is pretty much bootcr#p. But maybe VinDSL can set me straight about how to correctly configure, use and interpret bootchart -- at least I hope he can because it could be a very nice tool to have available.  ;)

Regards,

-- Slim
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #82 on: November 05, 2016, 07:49:04 am »
In Peppermint 7
Code: [Select]
systemd-analyze timewill give you more/better info.

and
Code: [Select]
systemd-analyze plot > ~/Desktop/systemd-analyze-plot.svgwill give you a graphical representation of your previous bootup (in a file called systemd-analyze-plot.svg on your desktop).

I haven't got a clue what bootchart is supposed to be showing, but it sure doesn't seem to reflect "time to desktop" ;)
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Offline zebedeeboss

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #83 on: November 05, 2016, 08:08:43 am »
Hi All
well it does on mine
If I use a stop watch I get between 7 and 8 seconds -  from enter on grub to screen appearing.
my bootcharts tell me  6-7 secs.
OK I'm getting old and slow
So it seems accurate for me. 
Regards Zeb...
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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #84 on: November 05, 2016, 11:14:47 am »
Bootchart has been the 'gold standard' for measuring analysis and visualization of the boot process, for as long as I can remember. 

Why ?  Because everyone has a different concept of what 'boot' means.

In the old days, ppl would use a stopwatch, but everyone would start and stop the watch at different times, and get different results, which caused endless flame wars.

Bootchart took care of all of that.  It's been so successful and effective at quelching agruments that Bootchart's boot logger (/sbin/bootchartd) is now run by the kernel instead of /sbin/init.

To me, Bootchart's greatest feature is, it removes human intervention.  Liars lie, and cheaters cheat.  We all know this.  Most forums require that you post the entire log file, as proof, not just a cropped screenie, but we're a pretty tight-knit bunch here.

If someone comes up with a better way of doing it, I'm sure they'll replace Bootchart, but don't hold your breath.

If you do hold your breath, use a stopwatch, and we can argue about that ...  LoL !    :D

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #85 on: November 05, 2016, 03:25:20 pm »
Yeah but the problem is how to interpret it.

I gather (by default) bootchart just starts a 20 second logging session .. then shows then along with overall system load just shows which processes started and how long they put the system under load.
Code: [Select]
man systemd-bootchartThat is not an indication of how long a system took to become useable from GRUB.

If I'm misunderstanding this (and I may well be), where does bootchart actually show how long the system takes to get to a certain point ?

in fact if bootchart defaults to a 20 second log, and your system takes longer than that to boot surely it's not even going to show all processes in the boot.



systemd-analyze time
or
systemd-analyze plot
on the other hand seems to show the FULL time taken to load firmware / loaders / kernel / userspace processes :)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2016, 03:32:26 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #86 on: November 06, 2016, 12:48:58 am »
Hi PCNetSpec and other interested parties,

I agree with your anaysis of the situation 100% -- I was just not able to formulate it so precisely.  :P

Indeed, on the machine I am now using bootchart reports an Idle time: 4.724s which (as a measure of the boot time) is absolutely ridiculous no matter when I start timing the boot process with a watch. The only thing that actually takes about that amount of time is the progression from the lightdm login screen to the ready to use desktop.

On the other hand, using

Code: [Select]
systemd-analyze timeproduces a very realistic result:

Code: [Select]
xxx@yyy-z ~ $ systemd-analyze time
Startup finished in 4.901s (kernel) + 16.153s (userspace) = 21.055s

where it must be noted that the reported kernel startup time is very close to the Idle time: reported by bootchart. So my conclusion now is that these two values are for the same process (namely: kernel startup time, or the time until the kernel startup has finished) but for some reason the bootchart programmers decided to use an uniformative name for what is being reported.

In any case, the real consumers of time when booting and waiting to get to a usable desktop are clearly the userspace processes that are displayed in both bootchart and in systemd-analyze plot -- although only the latter actually reports the total time for the userspace processes and the total time for both startup of the kernel and the userspace processes.
And this grand total is what the average computer user is interested in and aware of.  ;)

The definition of boot time is crucial here, and I think that the one given in the PC Magazine Encyclopedia is one that matches what the average computer user also intuitively uses:

Quote
The time it takes for a device to be ready to operate after the power has been turned on.

Regards,

-- Slim
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Offline zebedeeboss

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #87 on: November 06, 2016, 02:17:37 am »
Hi

This thread gets better and Better...

Going by systemd
Code: [Select]
zebedee@i7-peppermint ~ $ sudo systemd-analyze time
[sudo] password for zebedee:
Startup finished in 42.843s (firmware) + 4.130s (loader) + 2.525s (kernel) + 9.305s (userspace) = 58.805s
zebedee@i7-peppermint ~ $
which is more in line with the actual time it takes from my PC Beep, which to me means it's reset from a reboot and is in the process of starting up

6-7 seconds is normally from when I hit enter on Peppermint 7 in grub.

Regards Zeb..
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #88 on: November 06, 2016, 04:00:10 am »
I don't think ANY of these are necessarily a 100% true reflection of the boot time.

Let's take Zeb's example .. the "PC beep" has nothing to do with it nor does the GRUB timeout as logging CANNOT start until after GRUB when the kernel is started. So if Zebs PC isn't taking 50+ seconds to become bootable, one can only assume that the 42 seconds for loading firmware is running in parallel to other stuff and probably hasn't even finished by the time he considers the system "ready for use".
(in Zebs case I'm gonna guess the system is unable to load some firmware for something and eventually just gives up)

My points are

a) If the output from "systemd-analyze time" shows categories that run in parallel they're also meaningless as far as the average user is concerned when trying to calculate "time to usability".

and

b) "time to usability" is subjective and a completely different thing to "fully loaded"

It would seem that "boot time" is not an easy thing to measure from a system point of view .. all it can do is show process load times, it cannot show processes that failed to load, or can be badly skewed by something that has trouble loading but that has no effect on "usability".

[EDIT]

All I can say is that for me this output:
Code: [Select]
mark@Silver-HP ~ $ systemd-analyze time
Startup finished in 1.975s (firmware) + 7.078s (loader) + 4.316s (kernel) + 11.218s (userspace) = 24.588s
is a MUCH closer reflection of my machines "time to usability" than bootcharts 3.nn seconds.

I've come to the conclusion that neither are meant as a measure of "boot time" or "time to usability" .. they're purely tools for analysing boot problems.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 04:21:14 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: How Fast Is Peppermint 7 ?
« Reply #89 on: November 06, 2016, 05:12:06 am »
Hi PCNetSpec and zebedeeboss,

How are you guys getting so much output from

Code: [Select]
systemd-analyze time?? All I get are the kernel and userspace outputs, but nothing about a loader or firmware:-\

Regards,

-- Slim
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