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Offline zebedeeboss

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More SSD Questions
« on: May 30, 2016, 03:33:37 am »
Hi

I have been reading a lot about SSD usage and what you should and or shouldn't do. Too many differing opinions to form my own. So what better place to come than the Peppermint Forums where I have found advice in the past to be informed, accurate, sensible and practical :)

Two areas for inclusion in this question.

Storing Files/Directories in Memory with tmpfs. Does it matter, as far as SSD usage goes, that you leave well alone or can you move them to RAM; To save wear and tear AND for better performance, if you have the RAM capacity.

The same question is also being asked with regard to Browser cache.

What are the pitfalls, worse case scenarios of doing these two things to Peppermint OS.

Many Thanks in Advance

Zeb...
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 07:38:16 am by zebedeeboss »
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Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 04:32:09 am »
Hi


I have been reading a lot about SSD usage and what you should and or shouldn't do. Too many differing opinions to form my own. So what better place to come than the Peppermint Forums where I have found advice in the past to be informed, accurate, sensible and practical :)


Two areas for inclusion in this question.


Storing Files/Directories in Memory with tmpfs. Does it matter, as far as SSD usage goes, that you leave well alone or can you move them to RAM; To save wear and tear AND for better performance, if you have the RAM capacity.


The same question is also being asked with regard to Browser cache.


What are the pitfalls, worse case scenarios of doing these two things to Peppermint OS.


Many Thanks in Advance


Zeb...
Hi Zeb, I've shifted my tmp files cache to my RAM without an issue.  That certainly saves constantly writing to the SSD.  I do have 8GB to play with, so it's not a problem.  I wouldn't recommend it for a machine with less than 4GB thought.  I don't use Firefox, so the browser cache tweak, I can't comment on it personally.  PCNetSpec uses and recommends it though - so say no more  ;D.  I don't bother doing it in Chrome because it's a PITA.  Here're the two websites with tutorials I use to apply my tweaks: https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd and http://www.howtogeek.com/62761/how-to-tweak-your-ssd-in-ubuntu-for-better-performance/.  I don't bother with the instruction about running trim from /etc/rc.local every time I boot up.  PCNetSpec has a far more elegant way of doing it.  He's writen a custom script that provides a log : https://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php/topic,3029.msg29932.html#msg29932.  Changing the IO Scheduler from cfq to deadline is nice touch too.  My laptop is a little snappier with this tweak.  I've even dropped my swappiness to 1 without any adverse effects.  You can't really tweak your SSD anymore than what's provided here.  I done all of the above and my machine flies  ;).
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2016, 07:14:20 am »
I really don't get why people are still anally retentive about SSD optimisation for lifespan/endurance .. Modern SSD's are likely to outlast an HDD with zero tweaking.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7173/samsung-ssd-840-evo-review-120gb-250gb-500gb-750gb-1tb-models-tested/3
and
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8239/update-on-samsung-850-pro-endurance-vnand-die-size


SSD's have come a long long way since the early days where write cycles needed user management because the firmware didn't take care of wear leveling.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 07:29:59 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline zebedeeboss

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2016, 07:40:09 am »
Hi
Ignoring the wear and tear issue then.    Will there be a performance increase by using RAM for tmpfs and browser cache.
or is it so negligible as not to be worth the effort ?
Regards
Zeb...
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Offline Timo

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2016, 07:53:23 am »
The reputation is sticky... we will know we did something wrong when our SSDs die, but I've yet to see a dead one ;)

I did use a RAMdisk on Win7 for browser cache and there was no noticeable performance increase. Haven't bothered testing this on Linux :-\

Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2016, 08:41:53 am »
Hi
Ignoring the wear and tear issue then.    Will there be a performance increase by using RAM for tmpfs and browser cache.
or is it so negligible as not to be worth the effort ?
Regards
Zeb...
I've not noticed any increase or decrease in performance.  That's not really why it's done though.  It's to increase/maintain the longevity of the SSD.  I think it's worth doing; if you've the RAM to spare.  I tried it as experiment on my old Acer Aspire One with 1.5GB of RAM.  The poor thing totally freaked out when I opened a couple of webpages  ;D.  It only takes a couple minutes to do though.  You do it once and forget about it.
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Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2016, 09:25:40 am »
Hi everyone,

Following up on this, I am unclear about the use of usb sticks (using only newer ones that are for usb 3.0) as targets for linux distro installation and using persistence for personal settings. Do these sticks need/require any tweaking similar to SSDs? Are they as hardy as SSDs in case some one wishes to use them constantly to boot into a distro (for example when they have a very limited amount of free space on the HDD, or wish to use their favorite distro when at work without having to install it onto the available computers)?  :-\

Regards,

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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2016, 09:57:46 am »
Nope, USB sticks have limited write cycles too, and usually a MUCH lower count than an SSD because the NAND chpis are usually lower grade.

The controllers also tend to be of a lower quality, and they're less likely to have decent wear levelling in the firmware)

They're really not designed for much beyond storage, where write cycle count isn't normally an issue .. they're certainly not designed for use as as a system disk but they can be damn convenient :)

The good news is that Most Linux LiveUSB's will automagically use the swap partition on your hard drive if one exists.
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Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2016, 10:04:03 am »
Hi PCNetSpec,

Thanks for the information!  8)

I was considering installing Peppermint to a usb-3.0 stick with persistence and -- considering the low price of them now -- I probably will still do that. Good to know that SSDs have become so sturdy and reliable. My next computer -- if I ever get around to buying one (or am forced to because of equipment failure) will definitely have one on board.  ;)

Regards,

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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2016, 10:16:22 am »
Slim, if you haven't owned a system with an SSD yet, you're in for a treat.

I simply could NOT go back to a spinning disk, and I'm willing to bet EVERYONE with an SSD will say the same ;)

Best move I've made recently :)
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2016, 10:18:12 am »
Hi
Ignoring the wear and tear issue then.    Will there be a performance increase by using RAM for tmpfs and browser cache.
or is it so negligible as not to be worth the effort ?
Regards
Zeb...

I doubt if you'd notice much (if any) difference, SSD's aren't exactly slow when it comes to seek time anyway ;)
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

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Offline murraymint

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2016, 10:21:12 am »

The good news is that Most Linux LiveUSB's will automagically use the swap partition on your hard drive if one exists.

What if you've hibernated from the OS on your HD and then you boot up from a USB stick?

Offline Timo

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2016, 10:28:03 am »
@Slim: I would go with an SSD (60GB SSDs are at 20). I'm recommending a SSD to everyone, even with SATA2 it's still a decent upgrade from HDD. If you have SATA3 your PC will feel at least twice as fast... And for important data have a backup, USB 2.0 sticks are extremly cheap and perfect for this. If you don't trust one use two :D

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2016, 10:28:41 am »
Can't say I've ever tested that scenario, but I'd **guess** you'd destroy the hibernation state.

It is a **guess** though, maybe they're smart enough to realise and use just RAM instead.
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Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: More SSD Questions
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2016, 10:35:53 am »
@Slim: I would go with an SSD (60GB SSDs are at 20). I'm recommending a SSD to everyone, even with SATA2 it's still a decent upgrade from HDD. If you have SATA3 your PC will feel at least twice as fast... And for important data have a backup, USB 2.0 sticks are extremly cheap and perfect for this. If you don't trust one use two :D
Vielen Dank, Timo.

Regards,

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