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Author Topic: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon? (SOLVED)  (Read 5762 times)

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Offline perknh

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Besides the branding of Chrome and Maxthon, how are these two browsers worse, from a Linux point of view, than Chromium?

Chromium does not auto update, and I can't seem to ever figure out how to update it within Peppermint.  From what I can tell, Chrome, and to a lesser extent Maxthon, can be configured pretty much the same as Chromium -- if you go into settings and configure it the way you want.

At the end of the day, many sites are tracking you even if you request that they do not do so.  So, in all three browsers , you still need to install addons such as Do Not Track Me, and HTTPS Everywhere.

I know Firefox is open source too, but if you're living in an environment with a couple of languages, Firefox just can't compete with Chrome in the translation department.  I know most people do not have this problem, but if you need to go back and forth between a couple of languages, Google Translate is what you'll want to use.  What I like about Firefox is the ability to change search engines quickly.

So here's my basic question, if you don't use ICE, what really is so bad about using Chrome or Maxthon?

Sometimes I get so frustrated with Chromium and Firefox, I just want to throw in towel.  I feel this way despite the fact I really do believe in the open source philosophy behind Linux.  90% of everything I do on a computer, or online, is with Linux, and almost always with Peppermint I might add -- unless I'm playing with another distro on a flash drive in order to learn more about Linux.

But with browsers, I can't see that there is much of a difference between Chrome, Maxthon, and Chromium.  All three browsers end up needing tweaks and addons anyway.  But Chromium, without the ability to auto update, is really a pain.  Chrome auto-updates itself, as does Maxthon,   Maxthon is developing pretty quicky too, although it still has fewer configuration options than Chromium or Chrome.

Am I just not getting something here?  I'm I not seeing the obvious?  Or, at the end of the day, are Chromium, Chrome, and Maxthon all pretty much the same?  It seems to me that Chrome and Maxthon just seem to work better than Chromium, although both still need a few configuration tweaks, and at least a couple of addons.

I'll listen to anybody about this matter. I'm trying to understand why Chrome is considered so bad, while Chromium is considered so good.  All I can see is that Chrome works spectacularly well, and that Maxthon appears to be catching up rather quickly to Chrome.

Thank you,

perknh

 ???
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 10:47:05 am by perknh »
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Offline VinDSL

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2014, 12:05:32 am »
I guess you're asking for opinions.  I'll split the baby...

Personally, I'm too paranoid to use Chrome.  Probably some sort of psychological defect.

I do use Maxthon, Chromium and Firefox, interchangeably.   There are pros and cons to all of them, so it all depends on what I'm doing.

Don't really have any use for anything else.

If I had to choose one browser,  I'd pick Chromium.  Matter of fact that's all I use on USB stick installs, regardless of the distro.

I wouldn't use Chrome if you woke me up in the middle of the night, stuck a gun in my mouth, and beat me with a rubber hose -- but, that's just me.  :)






Offline perknh

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2014, 06:08:20 am »
 8)  Ah, VinDSL, maybe that's a solution -- using a flash drive for Chromium.

I have yet to find a better Chromium browser, with regular updates, than from Chromium Auto Updater 1.8, by Marcin Grygiel (found in the Windows section of Softpedia).  You download the updater -- for Windows, I'm sorry to say -- and then, if Chromium is not installed, it installs if for you, and then it will update regularly.

Quote
  I wouldn't use Chrome if you woke me up in the middle of the night, stuck a gun in my mouth, and beat me with a rubber hose -- but, that's just me.  :)       

Well, that's just about how I feel about Gmail -- except I haven't found a better email provider either.  So while we at it here, I wonder which email service you would tend to favor.  I bet it's not Gmail!  For Gmail, I have some personal evidence to share as to why I'm concerned about Gmail.  Not too long ago, a close friend of mine died, and I wrote to his bereaved girlfriend about his final wishes, using Gmail. Well Gmail then sent me ads, asking me if I was in the market looking for a casket!   Now that is creepy.  And this is even more creepy since I had the ad signals turned off.  What that means I should have been getting generic ads, nothing more.  Obviously, there was nothing generic about those advertisements.

But back to Chromium browser, I have not found a way to update my Chromium browser here in Peppermint 4. 

Remember, VinDSL, it is not paranoia, if the fear is justified.  I just don't know what the fear of not using Chrome would be based on.  I wonder what scares you about Chrome.  Do you think Chrome tracks us, even when we have tracking protectors installed?  I've wonder about that myself,  I watched, recently, Frontline's United States of Secrets.  This two part documentary scared and troubled me deeply..  I don't consider our fears here to be paranoia.  I believe they may well be justified.  I'm just wondering what troubles you the most about Chrome.  Chrome appears, on the surface anyway, to be just a re branding of Chromium.  Maybe it's not.  I do not know.

VinDSL, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on the matter, and I'm writing you from Maxthon right now -- not Chrome, just in case you're wondering!

 ;)

perknh
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 07:32:42 am by perknh »
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014, 12:24:52 pm »
Neither Maxthon or Chrome are open source .. they require you agree to an end user license agreement (EULA) prior to installation (as at least Chrome contains third party plugins that require you to do so).

So they'll never come preinstalled ;)

But if you prefer them .. use them .. there's nothing inherently "wrong" with doing so.



Erm .. neither Chrome nor Firefox update "themselves" .. they are updated from the repo's (as is Chromium)

Normally Chromium updates too .. the only reason it isn't in Peppermint 4 is that Ubuntu are no longer supplying updates for 13.04
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 12:28:47 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline perknh

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2014, 02:31:40 pm »
Hello PCNetSpec,

Therefore I can conclude that when Peppermint 5 comes out, it will be updated regularly from Ubuntu's repositories for five years.  That would be a major help to all of us.   :)

I do like to keep my eye on Maxthon's browser for Linux.  They are doing pretty well developing their browser for Linux at a pretty fast clip..

So now I know why, no matter what I tried to do , I could never manage to update our Chromium browser. I nearly infected my computer with a malicious PPA yesterday while trying to update our Chromium browser.  The instructions had the word crack in it.  My terminal told me to read the instructions carefully, and that was the only word that that I found somewhat suspicious.

Thank you very much,

perknh

P.S.

I did sent an email to  Marcin Grygiel, asking him if he'd consider developing an updater for us Linux folks.  His updater for Chromium in Windows is amazing.
We're all Peppermint users and that's what matters  ;).  -- AndyInMokum

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon? (SOLVED)
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2014, 05:56:24 pm »
Linux doesn't need (or want) an "updater" for specific applications .. that's the dumb*** Windows way of doing things :)

We have an update manager that updates EVFERYTHING (system and apps)  in one go .. as long as an updated version is added to the repos. :)
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Offline perknh

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon? (SOLVED)
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2014, 06:31:58 pm »
I did not know that.  I thought some PPAs where just for updating certain programs.

Thanks for telling me that.  That's important information to know.

But, PCNetSpec, what is your opinion on the real difference between Chromium versus Chrome.  Isn't Chrome just a repackaged Chromium, and wouldn't privacy apps, search engines, configuration settings make the two browsers pretty much the same as one another?

I read this in About Google Chrome:
Quote
Google Chrome is made possible by the Chromium open source project and other open source software.

And I read this in Maxthon's About
Quote
Maxthon is made possible by the Chromium open source project and other open source software.

With the exception of flash and auto updating, aren't the two browsers essentially the same?  Or could something insidious be lurking within Chrome, or Maxthon for that matter, that would not be found within Chromium?  Both browsers, Chrome and Maxthon, are singing from the same hymn sheet, aren't they?  Both are derived from Chromium, and other open source software.

I know I'm asking an opinion question, but your thoughts are always appreciated, and sought after, in this forum.

Please share your thoughts on this matter if you would.

Thank you,

perknh
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 09:31:11 pm by perknh »
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2014, 06:51:14 pm »
Chrome started life as Chromium with some third party plugins included.

Since then it now tends to get worked on as a separate yet connected project .. some features appearing in Chrome before Chromium .. but effectively they're the same thing except Chromium is open source so can't include the third party proprietary plugins out of the box.

Maxthon take the Chromium open source and modify it .. so again 90+% of the Maxthon code will be Chromium.
(same goes for SRWare Iron and Iron64)



Some PPA's *are* for single applications .. but once you add them to your sources (list of repositories), your system updater will download from the repo with the most recent version.

And I don't know where you're getting this idea that Chrome auto updates itself .. it does NOT, it's just that when you install Chrome is adds a repository to your sources .. then your system updater downloads updates as Google add updated versions to that repo
In exactly the same way Chromium will get updated when Ubuntu add a newer version to their repo's .. it's just that they don't do that as often, and not at all for 13.04 (and therefore Peppermint 4) any more as it's no longer supported.

[EDIT]

In fact Chrome COULDN'T update itself in Linux .. it's not running with elevated privileges .. so cannot write to /

and that's (part of) how Linux keeps you secure ;)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 07:27:04 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline perknh

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon?
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2014, 09:26:25 pm »
Thank you, PCNetSpec.

Your answer definitely answers the question.  I will no problem now using any of the three browsers we have discussed.  They are all excellent.

I believe I got the idea that Chrome updates itself from my years with Windows.  Chrome would display a notification when an update was available, but Chromium browser would not.  For Chromium, in Windows, one would need to install and app such as Marcin Grygiel's Chromium Auto Updater.  I believe this is where I got my mistaken notion about auto updating with Chrome.

I made the leap that since my Chromium browser wasn't updating, even when trying to install different PPAs to do so, that Chromium did not auto update.  I believed that since I thought my Chrome and Maxthon browsers were up to date, they must be continuing to update, even though I know I'm using an unsupported version of Peppermint right now.  I believed they were still updating for me in Peppermint 4, but I've also been working with two Xubuntu 14.04 installations.  I may have been confused about which distribution was getting the updates.  I just don't know.

And since we're about to change versions of Peppermint within weeks or days, what I have now will probably not change before Peppermint 5 comes along anyway.

Thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding.

I suspect I'll get no more updates for Chrome and Maxthon within Peppermint 4, but that will hardly matter at this point in time. My understanding now is that Chrome or Maxthon could continue to support this repo even if Ubuntu does not do so with Chromium.

I hope I've got that right.

And thank you for the great answer.

perknh
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 09:42:51 pm by perknh »
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Offline perknh

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2014, 08:17:10 am »
Quote
Some PPA's *are* for single applications .. but once you add them to your sources (list of repositories), your system updater will download from the repo with the most recent version.
--PCNetSpec

Sorry, but I need to ask two more questions in order to me clear up my thinking about how these PPAs work.

In our case, where we are now using an unsupported distribution, will some PPAs still get updated from their upstream source, such as Chrome and Maxthon?  Or will they not be able to be updated because our distribution is unsupported, therefore automatically cutting off support for these particular PPAs?

Thank you. I still a little confused about how this works.

 :-\

perknh
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2014, 10:19:51 am »
You have a list of repositories that get checked by the software updater for newer software every time you run the updater (or it runs in the background.
If any updated software is found in any of those repositories .. it is downloaded and installed onto your PC.

The main repositories are (for Peppermint 4) the Ubuntu 13.04 repositories, but there's also the Peppermint PPA for the Peppermint specific stuff, any other PPA's you add, and then any other (non Launchpad PPA) repositories such as the Google one that gets added when you install Chrome.

Right now the Ubuntu 13.04 repos will not be receiving updates .. nor will any Launchpad PPA's, as to upload a package to a launchpad PPA you have to upload the source, it then gets built on Ubuntu's servers against the Ubuntu release you tell it to build against .. but you can no longer tell Launchpad to build packages against 13.04

Third party repositories however, like the Google one may still receive updates.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 10:48:32 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline perknh

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2014, 10:46:36 am »
I get it, PCNetSpec!   :)

Thank you,

perknh

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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: What Is Really So Bad About Using Chrome or Maxthon? (SOLVED)
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2014, 10:49:33 am »
No problem :)
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