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Author Topic: why is Peppermint so underrated?  (Read 13032 times)

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Offline perknh

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2015, 06:43:40 pm »
I think it's far better to do one thing well that half a dozen things badly, with Peppermint we have one version and it's damn good it does what it says on the tin and it does it well backed up with a community second to none

So Distrowatch can take care of itself meanwhile Peppermint will take care of it's users

What a smaller distribution has, and what a larger distribution can't match, is the personal interest that it takes in its users.  There is no way that a larger distribution can compete with that. ;)

Personally, I prefer distributions that focus on only one desktop.  While I like what Mint and others do, I think multiple desktops sometimes causes more issues that it solves...Also, having one desktop streamlines help on the forums.  When a person asks for help with Peppermint, they don't have to put what desktop they're using except if they installed something else.

And if you look at Distrowatch closely, you'll see that we are not the ones to focus on one desktop.  I've seen that some distributions concentrate simply on GNOME, while others only on Xfce.  I noticed also, huge as it is, that Manjaro only concentrates on Xfce, KDE and a base installation called Net-Edition.  After that, all of its other versions are called Community Editions.  Manjaro, itself, only concentrates on the three installations I mentioned.

I do enjoy reading Distrowatch, but it's clear to me that its ratings have to be taken with several grains of salt.
We're all Peppermint users and that's what matters  ;).  -- AndyInMokum

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2015, 07:20:15 pm »
Quote from: emegra
do one thing well

The Unix philosophy :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy#Do_One_Thing_and_Do_It_Well

Quote from: scifidude79
I also happen to love the Peppermint desktop, especially Peppermint 6.  It's my favorite Linux desktop, replacing KDE in that spot.

TVM :)

Quote from: perknh
I do enjoy reading Distrowatch, but it's clear to me that its ratings have to be taken with several grains of salt.

Exactly that :) .. in fact even Distrowatch themselves say they don't mean much:-

Quote from: Distrowatch
The DistroWatch Page Hit Ranking statistics are a light-hearted way of measuring the popularity of Linux distributions and other free operating systems among the visitors of this website. They correlate neither to usage nor to quality and should not be used to measure the market share of distributions. They simply show the number of times a distribution page on DistroWatch.com was accessed each day, nothing more.

source:
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2015, 10:30:02 pm »
All I ever use the DW ranking list for is to find distributions without searching for them.   ;)  As we've discussed in other threads, they really don't mean much and they fluctuate based on what is on the front page.  People are going to naturally click on things that are right in front of them, if for no other reason than to check them out.  That doesn't mean they like or even use them, they just visited the page.  And, there are plenty of people who don't even use DW.  I never even heard of it before I started using Mint, because it's included as a default bookmark in that OS.  Though, I'm glad I did because DW is where I found out about Peppermint.  :)

Besides, everybody knows Ubuntu is "The leading OS for PC, tablet, phone and cloud." (no matter what actual usage statistics say) Just ask them:

http://www.ubuntu.com/

 :P
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 10:31:56 pm by scifidude79 »

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2015, 10:29:01 am »
LOL :))
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Offline sskarma

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2015, 01:25:52 am »
I think Ubuntu is No.1 when it comes to number of users though! Most non-windows laptops come with Ubuntu and in my state, the government awards Ubuntu laptops to around 50000 students who do well in local board exams every year. (Although most of them replace it with Windows  later on)

Offline perknh

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2015, 12:05:00 am »
Ubuntu/Canonical produces some of world's best distributions, and I'll never take that away from them.  On the other hand Ubuntu's forums are just plain wrong, and I have to put the burden of the way its forums are structured squarely on the shoulders of the managers there --all the way up the chain to Mark Shuttleworth himself.  I say this because I find it astonishing that you can participate in Ubuntu's forums, use one or more flavors of Ubuntu for years, and still not be considered a "member' there --ever!  That's a form of classism within the open source community that I find both inconceivable and absolutely reprehensible too.  Ubuntu's distributions are excellent, but its forum structure, and its membership criteria, needs to be totally reexamined and restructured. (They also need to do a little housecleaning over there.)

I've actually come to believe that the derivatives of Ubuntu actually give a user the best of both what a distribution has to offer and the best that a forum has to offer too --considerably better than anything Ubuntu has to offer a participant.  Take Peppermint:  our distribution focuses exclusively on the LXDE-style desktop environment.  Therefore, if you share a minimalist philosophy, where programs don't get in the way of using the distribution, and if you like LXDE-style DE, then Peppermint is unquestionably the best of the best when it comes to LXDE-style DEs.  (Although, admittedly biased, I think the claims I'm making here are pretty hard to argue against!)  Also, regarding forums and membership, whether you're PCNetSpec, (who, if you're new here and still don't know this yet, PCNetSpec is at the top of administration here) or if you're one of the newest of newbies learning about Linux for the very first time, you're still a full-fledged member of Peppermint Nation if you're using Peppermint and participating in this forum --and this is how it should be.  There's no supplication necessary to be member within this community.  You're very being in this forum, and your use of Peppermint are enough.  Yes, one person may be considerably more advanced concerning knowledge of Linux than another --sure.  But one's value of personhood, or that of being a member of a community, all of these things we share in common and are not questioned here.  Yet it is exactly this type of thinking that is lacking over at Ubuntu's forums.  I can only conclude that the management of Ubuntu is either unable to grasp these concepts yet, or it steadfastly and stubbornly refuses to embrace them.

We're all Peppermint users and that's what matters  ;).  -- AndyInMokum

Offline scifidude79

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2015, 01:29:28 am »
I think Canonical makes a great base for other Linux distributions, but I don't think their flagship product, Ubuntu, is anywhere near as good as it used to be.

For one thing, they seem to do the exact opposite of what everyone else is doing with the Linux desktop and go out of their way to make Unity as uncustomizable as possible.  You can't even use any of the tweak tools to put the window buttons back on the right side anymore, they're now permanently attached to the left side.  Why?  Beats me.  I don't know why Canonical seems to want to force that on their users, many of whom come from Windows and other Linux distributions where the buttons are on the right.  Also, you can't customize Unity much at all, as opposed to Gnome-Shell, where you can pretty much customize it any way you want it now through various Shell extensions.  With a few tweaks, you can have Shell looking and acting almost like Gnome 2, but with the power of Gnome 3 underneath.  With Unity, you're pretty much stuck with that fugly tablet interface that looks like a giant turd on a big monitor.

Another thing is, I always seem to run into issues running Ubuntu.  With 14.04, it was an issue with my screen freezing, apparently some kind of problem with their desktop or that version of Gnome (because Mint did it too) and Nvidia graphics.  However, I've had a lot of other issues with them in the past, since they switched to Unity.  For that matter, I always have issues with Kubuntu as well, it runs nowhere near as smoothly as other KDE distributions.  The only one of their "official" flavors I'll even touch is Xubuntu.

The Ubuntu forums?  Heh.  That's where the (partial) misconception that Linux users are a bunch of a-hole neckbeards comes from.  There and a few other forums I won't mention.  I don't know if they still allow it, but they used to tolerate "code bombing" new users.  This is a tactic where, in order to attempt to show their own superior knowledge and make new users feel stupid, childish people will, instead of giving a clear answer to a problem, dump a bunch of code into a reply that makes absolutely no sense to someone trying to learn Linux.  Why did they ever allow this?  Beats me.  But, that's what has made their forum a volatile place in the past.  It's also what sends new users back to Windows with the thought that Linux isn't any good because you can't get help with problems.  I have no idea if they've cleaned any of that up.  And, their forum's not organized very well, in my opinion.

Having said all of that, Ubuntu is still a great project and Canonical is a good company because of all of the great things that have come from Ubuntu.  Like Peppermint and Mint, two of the best Linux distributions, in my opinion.  I've used some other good Ubuntu derivatives in the past, such as WattOS and Zorin.  Those are a couple of good Ubuntu-based distros.  Another thing Canonical/Ubuntu has done for Linux is make it more user friendly.  Before the arrival of Ubuntu, Debian was the most beginner friendly distribution.  As someone who has tried Debian and found it to be not beginner (or user) friendly, I thank Mark Shuttleworth and the people at Canonical who made Ubuntu for improving on Debian's user friendliness.  So, I thank Shuttleworth/Canonical/Ubuntu for all that they've done for Linux and all that they continue to do, such as make a great base that people like Team Peppermint can use to make a better distribution.  But, I don't consider them to be the "Leading OS" for anything, which is why I always find that dubious claim on their website laughable.  Besides, everyone knows the most popular and most widely used Linux-based OS in the world is Android.  They're certainly leading the tablet and phone race, even outselling Apple, which makes Ubuntu's claim even more strange.  They have to know Ubuntu isn't anywhere near a leader or even a contender in the tablet/phone market.

Offline perknh

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2015, 09:17:05 am »
Hi scifidude79,

Ah "code bombing", I've seen that before, but I never knew what that practice was called.  That's sure a mean thing to do to somebody new to Linux.  And as much as like the interface of Unity for its ease of use, I can't customize the panel the way I would like, and, even with 6GBs of ram, Unity moves like mud on my computer.  But, I have a lower end high high speed Internet, so maybe that's why Unity doesn't hum along for me.  Xubuntu, on the other hand, zips right along.

I don't like the management style of the Ubuntu forums.  I've actually found lots of nice people over there.  There's one moderator there that doesn't seem to get off my hide, and my very first post, which is now very outdated, is still in lock down or jail.  I've officially requested its removal, but no go.   Heaven forbid, I had discovered a bug in Lubuntu and I wanted to share a possible solution with them by demonstrating what Peppermint had to offer as a solution to that particular bug.  (I can't even remember what the bug was now.)  But that was my crime  --beginning with a link to Peppermint forum!  (Thanks to PCNetSpec, I got out of there with my hide intact, but apparently I had committed the unpardonable sin of referencing Peppermint as a possible solution to a little Lubuntu bug! :o)

Attitude aside in the forums, Ubuntu's distributions are fine --especially Xubuntu and MATE.  But Ubuntu isn't the all and end all of Linux.  I feel that Ubuntu is overrated and that the Debian folks don't get nearly the respect they deserve.  Where would Ubuntu be if it weren't for Ubuntu having Debian to work off of?  Besides, installing Debian has gotten much easier over the last few years.  The Debian crowd has some very nice folks too.  I've participated in Sparky Linux's forum, and they're lovely people over there too --kindred spirits really, but with a different focus within the testing branch of Debian.

Thanks for your thoughts, scifidude.  I always learn something every time I come to this forum. ;)

perknh
We're all Peppermint users and that's what matters  ;).  -- AndyInMokum

Offline sskarma

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2015, 10:48:02 am »
I always learn something every time I come to this forum.

My thoughts exactly, perknh :) I have never been so much active in any forums before and I have learnt a lot from the members here. Thank you all :) I can't believe I became a "member" from a "noob" so quickly.

peppermint candies for everyone ;) ;D


Offline scifidude79

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2015, 11:32:37 am »
Yeah, Debian is a good project.  I love the Debian code base and I find many of the Debian terminal commands to be easier to use and understand than anything based on Red Hat.  Plus, Debian uses Apt, the best package management system in the world.  Many great distributions, including this one, owe their existence and wonderful tool sets to Debian.

When I tried Debian, (admittedly, that was about 5 years ago) I found it to be a pain to install and configure. (nowhere near as bad as Arch, but still a pain) It's nice to know they're making it easier.  The only thing I can truly say that puts me off of Debian is how long they take to "test" things to where some of the packages in their "current" stable release are badly outdated.  It's OK to use some software that's not necessarily the newest version, until you literally can't use something because the version is too old to work properly with the dependencies anymore.  That's when it's time to update.  But, otherwise, I like Debian and I've used many Debian-based distros in the past that I've enjoyed.  :)

If you got in trouble on the Ubuntu forums for posting a link to a solution from Peppermint, that's truly sad.  You can't tell me that they're so insecure over there that they can't handle solutions that come from elsewhere.  Luckily, that's not a problem here.  Someone recently posted a link to the Arch Wiki, which actually has important information on how to fix screen tearing on Nvidia GPUs.  Fixed me right up, because I had that issue.  And, what did PCNetSpec do?  Applauded that user.  So did I.  That's how we roll over here.  We don't have all of the answers, and we welcome them from wherever they come.  8)  (another reason Peppermint is the best)

Ah "code bombing", I've seen that before, but I never knew what that practice was called.  That's sure a mean thing to do to somebody new to Linux.

Well, that's what I call it anyway.  And, yes, it is a mean thing to do.  It's a cruel, senseless and totally unnecessary practice.  I mean, why would you intentionally try to make a new user feel stupid?  What's the point?  Weren't we all new users with questions at one point or another?  I know there are people who are naturally good at things like computers, but I've never met one who was so gifted that they immediately knew how to use a new system with no help of any sort.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 11:37:12 am by scifidude79 »

Offline VinDSL

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2015, 12:58:21 pm »
I don't like the management style of the Ubuntu forums.  I've actually found lots of nice people over there.  There's one moderator there that doesn't seem to get off my hide, and my very first post, which is now very outdated, is still in lock down or jail.  I've officially requested its removal, but no go.   Heaven forbid, I had discovered a bug in Lubuntu [...]

LoL!  They're an odd lot.

I get along with about half the staff, over there.  It's my fault, not theirs.  I really do LIVE outside the box - and that extends to my sense of humor.  Some of the staff understands my comments, but others take great offense to what I post, and would likely try to lynch me, if we ever met in real life.

You likely fall into that same category, over there - and I mean that in a good way.  Maybe we should start a Peppermint user group and drive the naysayers crazy...   >:(
« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 01:00:17 pm by VinDSL, Reason: Typo Demon Strikes Again »

Offline perknh

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2015, 01:27:03 pm »
Maybe we should start a Peppermint user group and drive the naysayers crazy...   >:(

Good idea!  We would be doing them a favor if we did so. ;)

What they need at Ubuntu is an Ubuntuites for Peppermint Club. ;D  They need to learn how to shake off that Ubuntu stiffness that so many carry over there so proudly.

P.S.

sk_sarma, you became a valued member of Peppermint with your very first post.  We are all happy you participate here.  Thank you for enriching our forum.  Now, on the other hand,..this thing about the Yankees.. :-\  For the record:  Ole Babe Ruth should NEVER have left Boston. >:(



                                                                                               :D
« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 01:52:36 pm by perknh »
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Offline VinDSL

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2015, 01:54:20 pm »
LoL!  I probably told you this already, but...

Back when I was in 'good standing', the Canonical devs asked me to try and break their Ubu Disco site, during alpha testing.  They gave me the private port number and provided a login auth; and I brute forced it in 5 minutes - locked it up, solid as a rock.  They liked THAT.  I pointed out a vuln in private.

Some time later, I was the first person to discover the Ubu Forums had been hacked.  Ubu Disco was operational by then, so I reported the hack over there, along with who did it, and (probably) how they did it.  THAT they didn't like.  It was in public.

Ubu Forums were down for more than a week, while they did forensics.  They also implemented the SSO during this period.

How did 'they' thank me, you might ask?!?!?  By giving me a one-month timeout, as soon as the Ubu Forums reopened. Certain unnamed devs actually wanted to give me the banhammer.  LoL

Our relationship has never been the same, since then...   8)

Offline perknh

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2015, 03:19:06 pm »
No, VinDSL, I didn't know that particular story, but I knew you were once very active there; and I knew, that for some reason, your activity there had pretty much stopped --although you still run and explore their distros.  (By the way, I first discovered you at Ubuntu when I was first introduced to conkies!) 

Since we know you've dealt with a lot of lawyers, you certainly heard the saying that no good deed goes unpunished.  I find that saying to be especially true when participating in an Ubuntu forum.  Many of the uppity ups there are ________.  (Please pick any one, or two, word(s) of your choosing to fill in that blank!)   Quite frankly, VinDSL, they were jealous of you --nothing more.  Some of the people within Ubuntu forum remind me more of man-eating spotted hyenas than actual people.  They'll gang up on you in an instant if they sense a potential vulnerability.

I look at it this way:  Ubuntu's loss has been Peppermint's gain.  I say, good for us. :)
We're all Peppermint users and that's what matters  ;).  -- AndyInMokum

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: why is Peppermint so underrated?
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2015, 07:15:19 am »
I second that sentiment :)
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