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Author Topic: Win-10: making it easy for NSA  (Read 6459 times)

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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2015, 10:06:50 am »
Read the Microsoft Windows 10 security agreement and, and then tell me the Ubuntu thing even comes close  :o

Also show me where things line "Wifi Sense" have been going on for years ?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2015, 10:55:46 am »
Well, I reverted our Windows computer back to 8.1 late last night. I got the sweet little good-bye message "We're sorry to see you go, but you can come back to 10 at any time!"  ::)

...and of course after the switch back to 8.1 was finished...

Windows 10 started downloading to our computer again.


Offline VinDSL

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2015, 11:06:41 am »
I think they're trying to follow the Apple model and exert complete control over the users and use that control for their own profit, that's where the money is

100% true !!!  Here are a couple of anecdotal stories, offered as POC (I'll keep them brief as possible).



First story (a typical Apple ATM machine scenario)...

One of my co-workers uses an 8 year-old Mac [something-or-another] at his home - loves it - but it's gotten slower and slower over the years.  About a month ago, he booted his machine and got a notification that his Mac has a virus which needs to be eradicated before he's allowed to go anywhere or do anything.  This action, of course, is to protect  him from losing any valuable data, having his identity stolen and so forth, and so on.  He was instructed to call an 800 number immediately, if he wanted to use his Mac.

Since it sounded like a scam, he called his local Apple dealer -  the dealer where he bought the machine - the dealer that has been providing tech support for him, over the years.  The dealer looked up the company, and told my co-worker, yes, that third-party support company was on the official Apple list of approved tech support firms, so he called the company that locked-up his computer.

For brevity, let's just say - he called the company.  They said they had been looking through his machine and noticed a virus was present and active.  He signed up for a 2-year contract - they worked on his Mac for over an hour (remotely) while he watched them on his display, and they also explained step-by-step everything they were doing, and why,  over the telephone.  When they were done, they told him where he picked up the virus (a *FREE* movie site)  and how to avoid getting viruses in the future, e.g. site he should avoid.  They also said they will be pro-actively monitoring his machine, and doing whatever is necessary to keep it running virus-free and at peak efficiency,  for the term of the contract.

Bottom line is - my co-worked is giddy with delight.  He's like a pig in shiz !!!  He said his Mac hasn't worked this well in years - everything just 'pops up' - it was like buying a whole new computer, blah, blah, blah.  He hooked...  :P



Second story (Microsoft copying the Apple ATM model)...

About a week after the above story, my (male) secretary calls and said he can't go anywhere or doing anything on our winders XP Pro business machine - same scenario as above, except he had to call Microsoft - sign a two-year contract, and get a *FREE* winders 10 upgrade, in the process.   What is one to do?  It the price of doing business with Microsoft.



These two real-life stories demonstrate, to me, that 'they' have built back doors into Apple and winders machines - but we already knew, right?

Not only are they using these back doors for spying, but also to line their corporate pockets with gold...

Offline scifidude79

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2015, 11:50:18 am »
I don't like Ubuntu because of some of the changes they've done, like more advertising and commercial crap in their OS.  That's why I run Ubuntu alternatives that don't have that garbage.  However, there's no way in hell that what they do compares to what M$ is doing.

@VinDSL:  yeah, it always amazes me at how you can call that "magic" number and get your Mac or PC fixed over the phone.  If they can get into those systems that easily by remote, imagine what a fairly decent hacker can do.

Yeah, it's 22 pages and that's just the security agreement part.  It's truly shocking.  Windows 10 users are being, "sold down the river".  On a personal level, I don't care as long as it has no adverse impact on my privacy.  The majority of computer users are aware that there are alternative to MS's offerings. All the information they need to know about Linux systems is at their fingertips.  They prefer to not research for alternatives for whatever reason.  Again, I don't really care, it's their call and it's their problem.  Let them deal with it and the consequences of their poor judgement.  The folks that do come over to our side of the fence.  I'll do everything I can to make them feel comfortable with their new system.  Hopefully, they will then stay.   

Most Windows users, confuse popularity with quality.  Windows is the most popular desktop OS.  It must therefore be the best OS.  The brilliant marketing strategy Bill Gates, (it really was a stroke of genius) managed to implement, is the primary reason behind this mind set.  Nothing is going to change that; short of MS suddenly calling it a day and closing shop.  For me, the Linux Desktop is not a race or a popularity contest.  It's about providing a superior, safe and free alternative to the proprietary garbage that come pre-installed or is offered to users as a, "sprat to catch a mackerel".  The free upgrade to Windows 10 is the prime example of this marketing strategy.  After that free honeymoon period with Windows 10 has expired.  Its users will feel the full impact of their choice.  Microsoft will have the proverbial hook well and truly set.  It will now be time to reel them in.  Where the Linux Desktop sits in the popularity tables, is totally irrelevant because it's not proprietary software and it doesn't have to satisfy shareholders with profit results.  It all boils down to priorities and how much effort the end user wants to put in to their computing experience.

I've been saying for years how much of a genius Bill Gates is for getting Windows into peoples' hearts and minds.  He knew, if he could get 99% of the computer manufacturers to start putting the OS on their computers, people would learn to know it and love it.  He's brilliant.  This "free" upgrade is likely another stroke of his genius.  Even though he's not the CEO anymore, he's still Chairman of the Board, and you know he's still pulling the strings at his company.

I agree with you, Windows VS Linux isn't a popularity contest.  Numbers and market shares don't mead anything to me.  After all, it's really stupid to compare market shares when the vast majority of desktops and laptops are still running Windows because that's what came with them.  To me, Linux is simply what the enlightened people are running.  That doesn't mean I think Linux users are any smarter or that Windows users are stupid for sticking with what's there, Linux users just saw the light.  People who have had enough of Windows (for whatever reason) and said "OK, I'm out."  Though, it's not for the faint of heart.  Switching completely over from the most popular and most programmed for OS means there are many changes to be made.  This is especially true for people who love certain software packages that just aren't available.  But, if anybody can make the switch, I welcome them as well.  Not everybody can.  Personally, it took me years to totally convert because I kept letting excuses like this software package or that not working in Linux, not even with Wine.  But, I finally did.  And, I'm not one of those people who will push Linux on people.  I'm not shy about mentioning that I use it and, if people ask questions, I answer them as frankly and as truthfully as I can.  But, I don't try to "convert" people.  People have to come to a decision to leave what's prevalent and comfortable on their own.

I suspect, after the honeymoon, as you call it, is over, things are going to get really interesting.  One thing I know about Microsoft for sure is this:  they never do anything for free.  This is the company who wanted to charge XBOX One users a registration fee for used games because they make no money off of resold games.  The only reason they didn't do it was because public backlash was so severe that they knew they wouldn't sell many consoles.  As a used game buyer, I know I would never touch a console that did that.  (I still don't want an XBOX One, but for other reasons)  It will be interesting to see what happens in a year with Windows 10.  I suspect, whatever it is, users won't like it.  But, I'm betting that M$ is assuming that the vast majority of users will likely just go with it, whatever it is.  They'll have been using Win10 for a year by then and M$ probably assumes that most will be totally comfortable with it and not want to switch to anything else.  And, the sad part is, they may be right.  We'll see.  Like I said, it will be interesting.  By then, I'm going to be running Peppermint 7 and it won't matter to me personally, so I'll just watch it all go down with a detached interest.   ;)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 11:54:35 am by scifidude79 »

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2015, 09:00:59 pm »
Finally Windows 10 gets a Synaptics touchpad driver that doesn't reset to defaults every bootup

A worrying turn up though is that whilst I was waiting for Synaptics to get a working driver out the door I'd reverted to version 16 of their driver and told Windows to NOT automatically install "Device Drivers & Realistic Icons" .. Windows 10 completely ignored this setting and kept automatically updating me back to the broken version anyway.

I'm gonna be seriously $%^&ed off if it downgrades this version tomorrow.....
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2015, 10:46:08 pm »
Ah, yes.  With the new version comes the wait for new drivers.   ::)  Reason number 2,905,302 to never use Windows again.

Offline plumtreed

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2015, 04:37:54 am »
All of this confirms that most people stick with Windows because you do not have to become a 'nerd' to use it........most software/hardware providers feed drivers to ensure their product 'just works' for the latest windows OS.  Users see this as Win making life easier because it is always simple to set up and use. 

I moved a Lenova desktop to new location but had to buy a WIFI adaptor to avoid having to re-run the phone line to the new location......this Lenova dual boots Peppermint 6 & Windows...Win10 ;)...the Windows setup worked OOTB but I had to sort out a big fix for the Linux side! It was fixable but most people aren't too keen on chasing this sort of thing, are they?

Just saying that the general perception is that Linux requires much more effort and knowledge than Windows :'(     ....so most punters will obviously pick windows.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 07:32:06 am by plumtreed »

Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2015, 08:15:25 am »
Hi plumtreed,

I can only partially agree with you. The situation depends entirely on your hardware and whether you need to install Windoze -- which most people never try because it comes installed on their computers. If they would ever try to install it fresh -- I think that most people would either give up or have a nervous breakdown. Some will get lucky and it will install after wasting a day or two to get it done.

Compared to Linux? Some people never get it installed, but others have it up and running within an hour -- even though they are computer beginners.

So your generalizations need to be qualified;)

Regards,

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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2015, 11:36:10 am »
I think everyone who thinks Windows is the easiest OS in the world should have to do at least one out of the box Windows installation without drivers readily at hand in their time.  Then see how "easy to use" Windows is.  My uncle, who works on computers, worked at HP for years building them, and prior to that, was in the Air Force, where he did something with computers, couldn't get Windows 7 installed on his system with multiple attempts.  So, he switched to Linux.  Last time I talked to him, he was running Mint and he loves it.

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2015, 01:12:34 pm »
@ Plumtreed,

My point was that Windows 10 was released (with free upgrades) to people that had fully working Win7/8/8.1 systems with a BROKEN Synaptics touchpad driver, and a setup that didn't allow you to swap to one that worked  :o
(if you changed it for one that worked, Win10 immediately switched it back to the broken version .. and there was no way to stop this stupid behaviour)

Conversely the touchpad driver worked perfectly in Peppermint out of the box  :P

Now when you consider the Synaptics touchpad is the worlds most common, and Microsoft MUST have known about this from their open beta, a LOT of people must have been a little dismayed by their "upgrade".

What were Microsoft thinking ::)
(about the only thing I can think of that would have been worse is if it were released with the graphics upside down for anyone with an ATI card, and with no way to fix but wait for ATI)
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 01:23:52 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2015, 01:28:44 pm »
What were Microsoft thinking ::)

That they know better than anyone else on the planet what is best for users, like they always do.  Their crap is insidious because they think it's the best thing ever and that nobody would possibly want to use something else.  They have their heads so far up their butts that they can't see their own flaws, or at least think users won't care about their obvious flaws.

That and, "money, money, money,"  "evil plot to take over the world."   :P

Offline plumtreed

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2015, 07:34:27 pm »
I continue with Windows because of my accounting software that refuses to cooperate at year end unless in Windows. I routinely access it with a combo of Pep6 and Dropbox but only Windows produces the year-end print-outs. Generally, there is no 'real' accounting software in Linux and medical diagnostic software usually relies on Windows to work.

I have installed many versions of Windows over the years and can honestly say, including the Win10 upgrade, that I have never hit a problem. My daily and favourite drive is and has been Peppermint since its inception.......it was made for me :P.

My only point, i guess is, that operating systems seem to moving in a new direction of control and information retreival in order to raise money....I look at the Adverts that follow me on this forum and I see that they reflect some of my latest google info searches.....so its not just Windows.

Peppermint is clearly also making money on info skimmed from users in a similar way.













Offline perknh

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2015, 08:25:51 pm »
I have installed many versions of Windows over the years and can honestly say, including the Win10 upgrade, that I have never hit a problem. My daily and favourite drive is and has been Peppermint since its inception.......it was made for me :P.

Hey, stand in line, pal.  I thought Peppermint was made for mrs. perknh and me!  ;D

Quote
My only point, i guess is, that operating systems seem to moving in a new direction of control and information retrieval in order to raise money....I look at the Adverts that follow me on this forum and I see that they reflect some of my latest google info searches.....so its not just Windows.

Peppermint is clearly also making money on info skimmed from users in a similar way. --plumtreed from Oz

You're right, plumtreed, this is the world we live in now.  But you can still help monetize Peppermint and continue to protect your privacy concerns.  Privacy Badger, from either Chrome's App Store or the Electronic Frontier Foundation, can help you decide which cookies you allow to follow you on the Web.  After a while that little badger may block all your ads in Peppermint.  Then you can slide the blocker to yellow in order to allow enough cookies to help keep the ads coming to Peppermint while still preserving your privacy.  After all, we DO want to keep this OS and forum up and running!  ;)  As for Google analyzing your every move, you can add the Google Analytics Opt-out Add-on (by Google) extension to your browser's toolkit.  Also, within Chrome's, or Chromium's, Content Settings, you can block third-party cookies and site data, as well as turn off location information.

Personally, I want keep money coming to Peppermint.  I just don't want Google to know EVERYTHING about me.  I will admit, I've never experienced any harm from Google from what I can see.  I just want the ability to disclose what I want to disclose, and still have Peppermint continue to get the revenue it needs in order to stay financially afloat and thrive.  :)
We're all Peppermint users and that's what matters  ;).  -- AndyInMokum

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2015, 08:27:33 pm »
Oh sure, we need to make some small amount of cash to pay for development, but there's a BIG difference between having a website with ads tracked by something like a google analytics cookie (which you can easily disable/delete, is not disclosing personal data, and it's not us doing the tracking anyway) and Microsoft's new service agreement and privacy statement which contains this:

Quote from: Microsoft Privacy Statement
Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to: 1.comply with applicable law or respond to valid legal process, including from law enforcement or other government agencies; 2.protect our customers, for example to prevent spam or attempts to defraud users of the services, or to help prevent the loss of life or serious injury of anyone; 3.operate and maintain the security of our services, including to prevent or stop an attack on our computer systems or networks; or 4.protect the rights or property of Microsoft, including enforcing the terms governing the use of the services – however, if we receive information indicating that someone is using our services to traffic in stolen intellectual or physical property of Microsoft, we will not inspect a customer’s private content ourselves, but we may refer the matter to law enforcement.
Source:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/default.aspx

I can assure you Peppermint collect ZERO information about our users beyond the email address you used to sign up to this forum (for forgotten password validation ONLY)
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Offline plumtreed

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Re: Win-10: making it easy for NSA
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2015, 08:35:57 pm »
Oh sure, we need to make some small amount of cash to pay for development, but there's a BIG difference between having a website with ads tracked by something like a google analytics cookie (which you can easily disable/delete, is not disclosing personal data, and it's not us doing the tracking anyway) and Microsoft's new service agreement and privacy statement which contains this:

Quote from: Microsoft Privacy Statement
Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to: 1.comply with applicable law or respond to valid legal process, including from law enforcement or other government agencies; 2.protect our customers, for example to prevent spam or attempts to defraud users of the services, or to help prevent the loss of life or serious injury of anyone; 3.operate and maintain the security of our services, including to prevent or stop an attack on our computer systems or networks; or 4.protect the rights or property of Microsoft, including enforcing the terms governing the use of the services – however, if we receive information indicating that someone is using our services to traffic in stolen intellectual or physical property of Microsoft, we will not inspect a customer’s private content ourselves, but we may refer the matter to law enforcement.
Source:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/default.aspx

I can assure you Peppermint collect ZERO information about our users beyond the email address you used to sign up to this forum (for forgotten password validation ONLY)

I never have nor would I ever have questioned the integrity of Peppermint or it's crew!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 08:41:14 pm by plumtreed »