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Author Topic: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably? >SOLVED<  (Read 16119 times)

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Offline paulus

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Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2015, 11:36:39 am »
@ PCNetSpec, plumtreed and AndyInMokum,

Thanks for your offer and suggestions to place more RAM. I have tried that before, but as this old computer is a really compact one, it's not possible to replace/install new/other memory. I tried once, but couldn't really reach the memory banks, as this computer is from the time it was modern to produce "little" computers, about less than half the size of a standard desktop computer.

So many thanks, but I already tried that before, with no success.

paulus

Offline scifidude79

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Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2015, 12:13:24 pm »
Is it a mini tower or one of those old "flat" jobs?  Either way, I guarantee you it can be taken apart.

Offline paulus

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Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2015, 12:51:48 pm »
It is a mini tower, but trust me: I tried very hard to reach the memory banks, but with an equivalent computer I already damaged the attachment of the memory to the placeholders, the banks, so that is not an option.

paulus

Offline scifidude79

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Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2015, 01:30:42 pm »
What's blocking the RAM slots?

Last year, I was "gifted" an HP Slimline from around 2010, I think.  Anywho, tiny form factor.  It had a fried GPU in the motherboard from a nearby lighting strike, but was otherwise functional.  In order to replace the mobo and get it into working order, I had to partially disassemble the case because there are framework pieces that hold other components in the way of the motherboard.  It was a pain, but worth it in the end because the computer is working and I (of course) put Peppermint on it.  :D

So, my point is, some of those smaller form factor cases can be a real pill, but it's always possible.  But, if you don't want to go to that much work and risk breaking stuff, I understand.

Offline paulus

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Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS?
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2015, 12:31:40 pm »
What's blocking the RAM slots?

Last year, I was "gifted" an HP Slimline from around 2010, I think.  Anywho, tiny form factor.  It had a fried GPU in the motherboard from a nearby lighting strike, but was otherwise functional.  In order to replace the mobo and get it into working order, I had to partially disassemble the case because there are framework pieces that hold other components in the way of the motherboard.  It was a pain, but worth it in the end because the computer is working and I (of course) put Peppermint on it.  :D

So, my point is, some of those smaller form factor cases can be a real pill, but it's always possible.  But, if you don't want to go to that much work and risk breaking stuff, I understand.

scifidude79,

Thanks for your reply, but for this moment I don't think it's worth all the trouble. I agree it would be possible, but at what price? :-\

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions: I conclude that with 256 MB RAM it is NOT possible to run Peppermint OS.

The next question would be: Is 512 MB RAM the absolute minimum required for Peppermint OS? Maybe, I don't know, and I am not in a position to check it.

For that reason my question remains unanswered.  So that will be the addition to my subject, in stead of "SOLVED".

If anyone will able to really answer the question and let it know here, I will update my subject.

Again: many thanks to ALL of you! ;D

paulus

Online PCNetSpec

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Absolute minimum is (as stated in the user guide):

Quote
The absolute minimum required specs are as follows:

    256 MB of RAM
    Processor based on Intel x86 architecture
    At least 3 GB of available disk space

Again, do note that these are the absolute minimum required specs. We strongly recommend having something a little stronger to install on. Our minimum recommended specs are as follows:

    512 MB of RAM
    Processor based on Intel x86 architecture
    At least 4 GB of available disk space

Taking it a step further, the preferred minimum specs on a candidate for installation are as follows:

    1 GB of RAM
    x86_64 or amd64 compatible processor
    At least 4 GB of disk space

Bear in mind with 256MB, you'll need to install from the "Try Peppermint/Install Peppermint" screen and NOT the Live session .. but I REALLY wouldn't advise running Peppermint in 256MB, it'll be as slow as a snail as it'll pretty much be using the swapfile just to run the OS.

Even in 512MB itll start accessing the swapfile if you start using a modern web browser with eiither more than one tab or some flash content

IMHO iGB is really a minimum comfortable amount of RAM

The point is these days it's impossible to say what a "minimum RAM" figure is except as a minimum amount necessary for INSTALLATION because after installation the swap file acts as additional RAM (but MUCH MUCH MUCH slower).

So really your asking the wrong question....

BARE minimum (to install) is 256MB but the system would be that slow you'd consider it pretty unusable .. the question should really be either:-

a) What's the bare minimum to INSTALL
or
b) given x/y/z usage case, what's a minimum comfortable amount of RAM where the system would be unlikely to start using the swap partition/file.
WARNING: You are logged into reality as 'root' .. logging in as 'insane' is the only safe option.

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Offline paulus

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Re: What is the minimum RAM required for Peppermint OS? >STILL UNANSWERED<
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2015, 01:04:40 pm »
Hi PCNetSpec,

You specified my question in the ways one could interpret it: by just installing it, or by able to use the OS in an acceptable manner with an average of running applications. I think that's more useful and clear than my original question, used as the subject of this thread.

So I do agree with you that my question must be more specific: I therefor will change my question/subject to the second interpretation of the original question: What is the minimal RAM required for Peppermint OS to work acceptably in an average way?

Thank you for correcting me: this is much clearer and specific; also the question can be answered now, as you stated: it is not less than 1 GB, but starting with that.

paulus

Offline AndyInMokum

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Hi paulus, how's it going?  I'll throw in my thoughts on the comfortable minimum working RAM.  Back in March 2015, I bought an old Acer Aspire One ZG5 from Marktplaats.  It had the default, 1GB of RAM.  One permanent 512MiB card and one 512MiB removeable memory card.  It had an obsolete version of Ubuntu installed that was really slow.  I installed Peppermint Five and this booted up fine.  It ran okay, as long as I kept the web browser usage down to a bare minimum.  For example, don't expect Flash based videos to run.  I couldn't reasonably expect to have more than two apps open at the same time.  I increased the RAM to the maximum of 1.5GB for this machine and installed Peppermint Six 32-bit.  I've also reduced the swappiness from the default setting of 60 to 1.  This has significantly enhanced the performance of this little netbook.  It now runs as a very capable little light weight computer.  It's never going to breath fire.  These little netbooks were never expected to do that  :).  With a minimum amount of modifications and tweaking, lower RAM machines can be made into very serviceable computers. 

I would say, 1GB on a 32-bit machine is going to be the bare minimum comfortable working RAM.  It's still going to annoy you at times  >:(.  With 1.5GB, you'll have a very capable machine.  With 2GB or more, you'll have no complaints whatsoever.  All of this is based on my own experience of Peppermint on a low RAM machine.  Other people may have differing views, based on their own experiences.  I hope you find this helpful and it gives you a better idea of what to expect from these lower RAM machines  ;).
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 07:30:51 pm by AndyInMokum »
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Hi paulus,


Terms such as comfortable or satisfactory are notoriously subjective and in the context of this thread they also depend greatly upon your typical software usage habits. What might be just great for me might be intolerable for you. But, having said that, I think that what AndyInMokum wrote is a good guide for you.


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Offline paulus

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Hi paulus, how's it going?  I'll throw in my thoughts on the comfortable minimum working RAM.  Back in March 2015, I bought an old Acer Aspire One ZG5 from Marktplaats.  It had the default, 1GB of RAM.  One permanent 512MiB card and one 512MiB removeable memory card.  It had an obsolete version of Ubuntu installed that was really slow.  I installed Peppermint Five and this booted up fine.  It ran okay, as long as I kept the web browser usage down to a bare minimum.  For example, don't expect Flash based videos to run.  I couldn't reasonably expect to have more than two apps open at the same time.  I increased the RAM to the maximum of 1.5GB for this machine and installed Peppermint Six 32-bit.  I've also reduced the swappiness from the default setting of 60 to 1.  This has significantly enhanced the performance of this little netbook.  It now runs as a very capable little light weight computer.  It's never going to breath fire.  These little netbooks were never expected to do that  :).  With a minimum amount of modifications and tweaking, lower RAM machines can be made into very serviceable computers. 

I would say, 1GB on a 32-bit machine is going to be the bare minimum comfortable working RAM.  It's still going to annoy you at times  >:(.  With 1.5GB, you'll have a very capable machine.  With 2GB or more, you'll have no complaints whatsoever.  All of this is based on my own experience of Peppermint on a low RAM machine.  Other people may have differing views, based on their own experiences.  I hope you find this helpful and it gives you a better idea of what to expect from these lower RAM machines  ;).

Many thanks, both AndyInMokum and Slim.Fatz,

It's good to see things from a multitude of meanings, ways to look at it, aspects etc. So also regarding this subject.

I have a question to AndyInMokum: you lowered the swappiness from 60 to 1; isn't that too low? A I read on several forums, e.g. https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/first#TOC-Decrease-the-swap-use-very-important- it is recommended to put it down to 10, regarding the amount of RAM. In this case is recommended 10:

Code: [Select]
Note: your machine might benefit from an even bigger decrease in swappiness. A useful rule of thumb might be this:
1 GB RAM or more: swappiness at 10
Less than 1 GB RAM: swappiness at 5
Please explain to me why only 1 is better than 10. I really like to learn more from your knowledge! ;D

Thanks again!

paulus
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 09:17:27 am by paulus »

Offline AndyInMokum

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Hi paulus, how's it going?  I'll throw in my thoughts on the comfortable minimum working RAM.  Back in March 2015, I bought an old Acer Aspire One ZG5 from Marktplaats.  It had the default, 1GB of RAM.  One permanent 512MiB card and one 512MiB removeable memory card.  It had an obsolete version of Ubuntu installed that was really slow.  I installed Peppermint Five and this booted up fine.  It ran okay, as long as I kept the web browser usage down to a bare minimum.  For example, don't expect Flash based videos to run.  I couldn't reasonably expect to have more than two apps open at the same time.  I increased the RAM to the maximum of 1.5GB for this machine and installed Peppermint Six 32-bit.  I've also reduced the swappiness from the default setting of 60 to 1.  This has significantly enhanced the performance of this little netbook.  It now runs as a very capable little light weight computer.  It's never going to breath fire.  These little netbooks were never expected to do that  :).  With a minimum amount of modifications and tweaking, lower RAM machines can be made into very serviceable computers. 

I would say, 1GB on a 32-bit machine is going to be the bare minimum comfortable working RAM.  It's still going to annoy you at times  >:(.  With 1.5GB, you'll have a very capable machine.  With 2GB or more, you'll have no complaints whatsoever.  All of this is based on my own experience of Peppermint on a low RAM machine.  Other people may have differing views, based on their own experiences.  I hope you find this helpful and it gives you a better idea of what to expect from these lower RAM machines  ;).

Many thanks, both AndyInMokum and Slim.Fatz,

It's good to see things from a multitude of meanings, ways to look at it, aspects etc. So also regarding this subject.

I have a question to AndyInMokum: you lowered the swappiness from 60 to 1; isn't that too low? A I read on several forums, e.g. https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/first#TOC-Decrease-the-swap-use-very-important- it is recommended to put it down to 10, regarding the amount of RAM. In this case is recommended 10:

Code: [Select]
Note: your machine might benefit from an even bigger decrease in swappiness. A useful rule of thumb might be this:
1 GB RAM or more: swappiness at 10
Less than 1 GB RAM: swappiness at 5
Please explain to me why only 1 is better than 10. I really like to learn more from your knowledge! ;D

Thanks again!

paulus
My Acer Aspire One has an SSD.  I want to minimize unnecessary writing to the SSD in order to help preserve it.  Reducing the swappiness to 1 accomplishes this very well..  If you are using an SSB on any machine, I recommend reducing the swappiness to 1.  Continuously writing to an SSD is not good for it and can reduce its operational life significantly.   I have even reduced it to 1 on my 64-bit machine with 4GB RAM and a 750GB HDD, just to boost its performance.  On any desktop machine, you really don't want it any higher than 10.  I even think this is too high.  I find 1 works really well for me.  It gives me the best performance from my machines.  Just don't set it to 0.  That's when you end up crashing your computer, when you run out of RAM.  Here's a great link explaining how to get the most out of your SSD: https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd.  This link is well worth bookmarking ;).
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Offline paulus

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Hi paulus, how's it going?  I'll throw in my thoughts on the comfortable minimum working RAM.  Back in March 2015, I bought an old Acer Aspire One ZG5 from Marktplaats.  It had the default, 1GB of RAM.  One permanent 512MiB card and one 512MiB removeable memory card.  It had an obsolete version of Ubuntu installed that was really slow.  I installed Peppermint Five and this booted up fine.  It ran okay, as long as I kept the web browser usage down to a bare minimum.  For example, don't expect Flash based videos to run.  I couldn't reasonably expect to have more than two apps open at the same time.  I increased the RAM to the maximum of 1.5GB for this machine and installed Peppermint Six 32-bit.  I've also reduced the swappiness from the default setting of 60 to 1.  This has significantly enhanced the performance of this little netbook.  It now runs as a very capable little light weight computer.  It's never going to breath fire.  These little netbooks were never expected to do that  :).  With a minimum amount of modifications and tweaking, lower RAM machines can be made into very serviceable computers. 

I would say, 1GB on a 32-bit machine is going to be the bare minimum comfortable working RAM.  It's still going to annoy you at times  >:(.  With 1.5GB, you'll have a very capable machine.  With 2GB or more, you'll have no complaints whatsoever.  All of this is based on my own experience of Peppermint on a low RAM machine.  Other people may have differing views, based on their own experiences.  I hope you find this helpful and it gives you a better idea of what to expect from these lower RAM machines  ;).

Many thanks, both AndyInMokum and Slim.Fatz,

It's good to see things from a multitude of meanings, ways to look at it, aspects etc. So also regarding this subject.

I have a question to AndyInMokum: you lowered the swappiness from 60 to 1; isn't that too low? A I read on several forums, e.g. https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/first#TOC-Decrease-the-swap-use-very-important- it is recommended to put it down to 10, regarding the amount of RAM. In this case is recommended 10:

Code: [Select]
Note: your machine might benefit from an even bigger decrease in swappiness. A useful rule of thumb might be this:
1 GB RAM or more: swappiness at 10
Less than 1 GB RAM: swappiness at 5
Please explain to me why only 1 is better than 10. I really like to learn more from your knowledge! ;D

Thanks again!

paulus
My Acer Aspire One has an SSD.  I want to minimize unnecessary writing to the SSD in order to help preserve it.  Reducing the swappiness to 1 accomplishes this very well..  If you are using an SSB on any machine, I recommend reducing the swappiness to 1.  Continuously writing to an SSD is not good for it and can reduce its operational life significantly.   I have even reduced it to 1 on my 64-bit machine with 4GB RAM and a 750GB HDD, just to boost its performance.  On any desktop machine, you really don't want it any higher than 10.  I even think this is too high.  I find 1 works really well for me.  It gives me the best performance from my machines.  Just don't set it to 0.  That's when you end up crashing your computer, when you run out of RAM.  Here's a great link explaining how to get the most out of your SSD: https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd.  This link is well worth bookmarking ;).

Thank you for answering!

I knew that for SSD swappiness 1 is the best value, but for HDD I didn't presume that also 1 is the best setting.

I also have 4 GB RAM on a 64-machine with 25 GB empty space left on my HDD-Peppermint-partition. So, if I understand well, you would advice me to lower swappiness to 1 in stead of 10, which I allocated before? :-\

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Thank you for answering!

I knew that for SSD swappiness 1 is the best value, but for HDD I didn't presume that also 1 is the best setting.

For the sake of discussion, here's how I config my HDD system...

Code: [Select]
vindsl@Zuul:~$ sudo sysctl -p
[sudo] password for vindsl:
kernel.shmmax = 100000000
vm.overcommit_memory = 0
vm.overcommit_ratio = 50
vm.dirty_background_ratio = 10
vm.dirty_ratio = 15
vm.swappiness = 10
vindsl@Zuul:~$ cat /etc/security/limits.conf
# /etc/security/limits.conf
#
#Each line describes a limit for a user in the form:
#
#<domain>        <type>  <item>  <value>
#
#Where:
#<domain> can be:
#        - a user name
#        - a group name, with @group syntax
#        - the wildcard *, for default entry
#        - the wildcard %, can be also used with %group syntax,
#                 for maxlogin limit
#        - NOTE: group and wildcard limits are not applied to root.
#          To apply a limit to the root user, <domain> must be
#          the literal username root.
#
#<type> can have the two values:
#        - "soft" for enforcing the soft limits
#        - "hard" for enforcing hard limits
#
#<item> can be one of the following:
#        - core - limits the core file size (KB)
#        - data - max data size (KB)
#        - fsize - maximum filesize (KB)
#        - memlock - max locked-in-memory address space (KB)
#        - nofile - max number of open files
#        - rss - max resident set size (KB)
#        - stack - max stack size (KB)
#        - cpu - max CPU time (MIN)
#        - nproc - max number of processes
#        - as - address space limit (KB)
#        - maxlogins - max number of logins for this user
#        - maxsyslogins - max number of logins on the system
#        - priority - the priority to run user process with
#        - locks - max number of file locks the user can hold
#        - sigpending - max number of pending signals
#        - msgqueue - max memory used by POSIX message queues (bytes)
#        - nice - max nice priority allowed to raise to values: [-20, 19]
#        - rtprio - max realtime priority
#        - chroot - change root to directory (Debian-specific)
#
#<domain>      <type>  <item>         <value>
#

* soft    core            0
root hard    core            1024
#*               hard    rss             10000
#@student        hard    nproc           20
#@faculty        soft    nproc           20
#@faculty        hard    nproc           50
#ftp             hard    nproc           0
#ftp             -       chroot          /ftp
#@student        -       maxlogins       4

# End of file
vindsl@Zuul:~$

I'm NOT suggesting anyone else should do this.  Just saying...   ;)

Offline AndyInMokum

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Hi paulus, how's it going?  Yeah, dropping the swappiness down to 1 isn't going to hurt.  You've plenty of RAM to spare.  I hate it when the swap space starts to be used.  Everything slows down to a crawl.   I want to keep everything in RAM; where it's nice and quick.  If 1 doesn't work for you.  Raise the swappiness up in increments until you find your, "sweet spot".  I look at it this way.  Peppermint is built to be quick.  I'm going to do everything possible, to keep it that way  ;).
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Offline paulus

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@VinDSL,
Thank you for your reaction! I see that your swappiness is set to 10.

@AndyInMokum,
Thanks for replying! According to your advice I dropped my swappiness to 1, and till now I didn't have any problems with that. I notice that my memory level is higher than before, but that's just the goal of it: to put more in memory in stead of swapping to the HDD all the time! :D

I continue to work with this 1-level and if there are remarkable things that show up, I will let know here.

Off topic: According to your name we are almost neighbors! If that is the case, I can compliment you with your excellent knowledge of the English language! :o  If your nickname wasn't like that, I really thought that you were a native speaker! :)

Kind regards,

paulus