Author Topic: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users  (Read 7200 times)

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Offline perknh

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My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« on: June 29, 2015, 02:45:07 pm »
I had to do the unspeakable yesterday:  I had to install Windows. :-[  Yep, my wife's Chromebook was acting up, and there was no support for the Google Chromebook Recovery Apt using Linux.  So, yeah, I installed Windows 8 --thinking I get past a lot bloatware than if I were to have installed Windows 7.

Well, nearly eighteen hours later the I completed the installation.  It took me 14 hours to have made the recovery drive for my wife's Chromebook.  By then I was determined to complete the installation for what's left of my sanity's sake!

So, yes, I've now got Windows 8 after having taking a very long break from it.  I am now very sympathetic as to why Windows 8 and 8.1 users might want to hold onto their Windows installations.  Why?  Because it takes nearly of full day to install Window 8 alone.  And, after all that time and energy installing something, you can understand why someone might want to keep the installation going for a while.  It is such a pain installing the darn thing.  >:(

So are what are the pros for Windows 8 that I could see:

1) The artwork is nice.  If you care about theming (wallpapers?) --there's a lot to find there.

2) It was fun to look at Canary browser again --although it did not work as well for me as Marcin Grygiel's bleeding edge Chromium browser did for me from Softpedia. (Open source lovers, you get his updater from Softpedia, and then the first update installs the Chromium browser in Windows.)

3) Skype is prettier that the older version that Canonical's partners offer.

Now the negatives:

1) The firewall has a lot of holes in it.  I went for core networking only.  There were way too many holes in Windows 8's software firewall.

2)  You need an AV, and a Malicious Software Removal Tool.

3)  It take the nearly a full day install, and the updates don't always install as they should --wasting hours and hours of time.

4)  There's this apt called Sky Drive (or something like that).  The good news here, at least in Windows 8, is that this apt can be uninstalled.

5)  The product key is a great nuisance.  Windows gave me a flash drive installation of Windows 8 a couple of years ago, after I had purchased some what seemed like buggy Windows 8 DVDs.  The product key, however did not work for that flash drive installation.  I had to go back and use the DVD to install.

6) There are no repositories.  You have to have trusted sites that will function as your own trusted repositories --Softpedia, and File Hippo for me.

7)  Real support?  Forget about it.  Try finding where to call --my flash drive for installing Windows 8 is a joke.

8)  No option to turn off signing in from a cold boot --sleep, yes,-- a cold boot, no.

9)  Microsoft will automatically try to protect their own programs, but you need to go deep into Settings if you'd like to have the same protection with all of your programs.  It's call Data Execution Prevention, and it's very difficult to find and enable for all programs.  Happy hunting for the little bass ditto!

No, my friends, pound for pound, Linux is very much better than Windows where it counts --security, functionality,, ease of use, in our case, and real support --and even fun!  Linux has nice desktops and art available for it.   We don't have Canary, and that would be fun to have --but that's no deal breaker.  And, although Skype is considerably prettier in Windows --who cares as long as it works?

That's my take on things.  Still I needed Windows yesterday to create a recovery drive for Mrs. perknh's Chromebook.  Nothing else seemed to be work for me.  This was a good experience for me.  It was an excellent reminder that escaping Windows completely --even today-- isn't always as easy as it sounds.  And this sad fact my friends, to use an old hippy term, is a real bummer!  :(


« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 06:23:18 pm by perknh »
[T]here are a lot of people happily running Peppermint ICE which hasn't been receiving ANY updates for a while now .. and I personally would STILL consider that MUCH more secure than any version of Windows with up-to-date AV/Anti-malware ;)

--  PCNetSpec, Cornwall, Eng.  Dec 03, 2013 5:18 pm

Offline scifidude79

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2015, 03:31:17 pm »
I helped one of my grandmothers who bought a computer with Windows 7 last year "upgrade" it using the included disc to 8.1.  That took hours.  I guess it's not necessarily just HP's crappy recovery media at work, if you say it takes all day to do a scratch install of Win8.  Did you try to install Solitaire or any of the other games that used to come by default using the Windows store?  That's a huge pain.  I just wanted to install Solitaire, FreeCell, Hearts and Mahjongg for my grandma and I couldn't get anything to download from the store.  After getting no help from M$, I found a YouTube video that showed me how to hack a file that would make the stupid store work.   ::)  Give me an Apt repository over that crap any day.  I'd even deal with Yum (Fedora's default package management) over that garbage, and I generally find Yum to be very bad in comparison to Apt.

Also, I have to disagree on positive point 1.  I think those fugly 2D icons that M$, Google Play and even some others like LibreOffice have gone to look like something a kid drew.  But, that's just me.  I hate that I have to put up with that fugly stuff on my XBOX 360, but you can't download anything from XBOX Live, including necessary game updates, if your system isn't up to date.

Offline rjm65

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2015, 03:47:13 pm »
Windows is the greatest OS ever made I hope you continue to enjoy it as much as the rest of the world does... 
P.S. it is about time you installed windows I don't know how anyone can live without windows on their machine, it is something i just can not imagine...
I use windows every single day 12 hours a day and I would never use anything else but windows cause windows rules the world...  :P
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Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2015, 04:05:17 pm »
Wow, that was epic.  Compare that to Peppermint, where the Ubiquity installer is about as simple as it gets.  20 mins to 40 mins latter,  you're up and running.  No, I don't need Windows for anything that I do.  I don't miss anything about that piece of garbage.  I'll stick with Linux.  All I have to do is switch on my machine and start enjoying my time using the ever so well behaved, Peppermint.  Maybe I crave the simple, peaceful life too much.  Am I missing something  :-\?
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Offline perknh

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2015, 04:22:30 pm »
Windows is the greatest OS ever made I hope you continue to enjoy it as much as the rest of the world does... 

Thanks, rjm65, I am enjoying it.  ;)  That is until I can catch my breath in order to install Peppermint 6 again!  ;D

Quote
I helped one of my grandmothers who bought a computer with Windows 7 last year "upgrade" it using the included disc to 8.1.  That took hours.  I guess it's not necessarily just HP's crappy recovery media at work, if you say it takes all day to do a scratch install of Win8.  Did you try to install Solitaire or any of the other games that used to come by default using the Windows store? --scifidude79

No, scifidude79, I didn't install any simple games --but I bet they are a pain.  Now, I don't know if themes and Wallpapers are considered the same as theming, and I don't know if it's your thing, but, if you dig a little into Window's wallpaper section, there are at least 100 different photos and drawings to choose from.  I was very impressed with that --but not impressed enough to remain with Windows because of them.

Quote
Give me an Apt repository over that crap any day.--scifidude79

Me too!  I appreciate more and more the virtues of a good apt repository.

What are the 2D icons?  I still have Windows 8 installed.  I'd like to see what you're talking about.

Thank you rjm65, scifidude79, and AndyInMokum.  rjm65, I know you're a Linux man through and through.  You're forced at times to use Windows because you have too.  Heck, I had to use Windows yesterday, and I had absolutely no plans to do so either.  And the darn installation took up my entire day.  I finally went to bed around 2:30 this morning because of it.  >:(

Quote
Am I missing something  :-\? --AndyInMokum

Andy, I promise you are missing nothing other than a lot of aggravation.  Even though it would be cool to have Canary browser for Linux as they do in Windows because it auto-updates nearly daily.  But, it's not open source as our Chromium browser is.  We're all better off staying right where we are --staying with open source and Peppermint.  :)

perknh
[T]here are a lot of people happily running Peppermint ICE which hasn't been receiving ANY updates for a while now .. and I personally would STILL consider that MUCH more secure than any version of Windows with up-to-date AV/Anti-malware ;)

--  PCNetSpec, Cornwall, Eng.  Dec 03, 2013 5:18 pm

Offline scifidude79

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2015, 05:13:05 pm »
Wow, that was epic.  Compare that to Peppermint, where the Ubiquity installer is about as simple as it gets.  20 mins to 40 mins latter,  you're up and running.

Compare that to Drake Install, which takes 5-10 minutes and it's really epic.  ;)  Though, Ubiquity also downloads and installs some packages and lets you set up your user data during installation, which you have to do after reboot on a Mandrake based system.  But, yeah, they're both really fast compared to Windows.  Even the Windows 7 installer takes forever by comparison, plus it has to reboot about 5 times while it's installing.

Offline mattosensei

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2015, 05:21:47 pm »
I agree with perknh and others. I absolutely loathe Windows 8/8.1. Worst operating system I have ever used.

This machine I'm on now is a refurb HP laptop bought a few months ago. Came with Win 8.1. First thing I did was wipe all partitions and then downgrade to fully hard-disk encrypted (with Truecrypt) Win 7 which is tolerable. In reality I run it almost exclusively with Peppermint 6 64bit running from a USB3 stick drive (full install to stick, not LiveUSB) and its perfectly zippy.

This is my first UEFI machine so had lots of fun and games tryng to figure out how to go back to legacy but got there in the end.  ;)

I hate hate hate Windows 8.1.  :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

And when I was with family yesterday, installed PM 6 to parent's netbook which was a success. Also wanted to install it to their Sony Vaio but could not access BIOS for love nor money so had to abort on that occasion  :(

Offline scifidude79

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2015, 06:07:34 pm »
Windows ME is the worst operating system I've ever used.  *shudders*  It made Vista seem like a dream and 8/8.1 seem almost tolerable by comparison.

Offline perknh

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2015, 06:46:03 pm »
Well, gentlemen, my little rendezvous with Windows 8, through all of yesterday to this afternoon, was about long as I could tolerate.  I'm back to Peppermint 6, and feeling very good about it.  And remember that infamous Chromebook that hurled me so abruptly into Windows territory yesterday?  Well the monitor died on it tonight anyway!  ::)

Thank goodness we have another notebook computer here, powered by Peppermint 6, for crises like these.  :)


[T]here are a lot of people happily running Peppermint ICE which hasn't been receiving ANY updates for a while now .. and I personally would STILL consider that MUCH more secure than any version of Windows with up-to-date AV/Anti-malware ;)

--  PCNetSpec, Cornwall, Eng.  Dec 03, 2013 5:18 pm

Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2015, 07:07:27 pm »
Windows ME is the worst operating system I've ever used.  *shudders*  It made Vista seem like a dream and 8/8.1 seem almost tolerable by comparison.
Ah yes, Windows ME, that's an operating system I would like to erase from my memory.  It was simply atrocious.  All of the devs who worked on that abomination should have been dragged outside by their hair and publicly flogged for incompetence  >:(ME was most certainly one of Microsoft's deepest low points  ;).   
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 12:11:17 am by AndyInMokum »
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Offline perknh

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2015, 08:07:10 pm »
But wait, fifteen later, and Cortana is coming to town!  :o

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Cortana
[T]here are a lot of people happily running Peppermint ICE which hasn't been receiving ANY updates for a while now .. and I personally would STILL consider that MUCH more secure than any version of Windows with up-to-date AV/Anti-malware ;)

--  PCNetSpec, Cornwall, Eng.  Dec 03, 2013 5:18 pm

Offline scifidude79

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2015, 11:09:37 pm »
Cortana is my #1 reason for never ever touching Windows 10.  It's not the only reason, but it tops the list.  It sounds like spyware to me.

Also, I think it's completely lame that M$ chose to name it after the A.I. from the Halo games.

Ah yes, Windows ME, that's an operating system I would like to erase from my memory.  It was simply atrocious.  All of the devs who worked on that abomination should have been dragged outside by their hair and publicly flogged for incompetence  >:(ME was most certainly one of Microsoft's deepest low points  ;).

Yes, this.  All of this.

I bought the upgrade right when it came out.  I was so excited.  Then I actually used the thing for a while and upgraded that computer back to Windows 98 SE.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 12:11:50 am by AndyInMokum »

Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2015, 01:44:16 am »
Cortana is my #1 reason for never ever touching Windows 10.  It's not the only reason, but it tops the list.  It sounds like spyware to me.

Also, I think it's completely lame that M$ chose to name it after the A.I. from the Halo games.

Ah yes, Windows ME, that's an operating system I would like to erase from my memory.  It was simply atrocious.  All of the devs who worked on that abomination should have been dragged outside by their hair and publicly flogged for incompetence  >:(ME was most certainly one of Microsoft's deepest low points  ;).

Yes, this.  All of this.

I bought the upgrade right when it came out.  I was so excited.  Then I actually used the thing for a while and upgraded that computer back to Windows 98 SE.
Yup, I remember booting Windows ME up for the first time.  It looked impressive - hope for the new millennium and all that bull.  That's where it all came to grinding halt :o.  They'd taken all the beautiful functionality and stability of Windows 98 SE and thrown it out of the window  :D.  Do you remember, nothing worked?  There was little to no driver support.  You had to dig around and install them manually.  Yeah, going back to Windows 98 SE was certainly an upgrade and a relief ;).
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 01:46:27 am by AndyInMokum »
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Offline rjm65

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2015, 08:35:13 am »
Yup I run 7,  I won't even try 8 or 8.1 I have seen them and dislike them both.... 
7 is so tight and so perfect it is the best one they made since XP....
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Offline perknh

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Re: My Sympathy Goes Out to Windows 8 and 8.1 Users
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2015, 10:02:47 am »
Yup I run 7,  I won't even try 8 or 8.1 I have seen them and dislike them both.... 
7 is so tight and so perfect it is the best one they made since XP....

My recovery drive is for Windows 7, although the computer was made to support both Windows 7 & Windows 8.  The problem is that recovery drive I created comes with tons and tons of bloatware, and that's why I thought installing Windows 8 would save some time. 

I was certainly wrong about that.  I have to agree with you, though; Windows 7 seems a lot more stable than Windows 8.  Windows 8 seems to be an experimental OS, and the purchasers of Windows 8 were the first guinea pigs of the new Windows way of doing things!  ;D
[T]here are a lot of people happily running Peppermint ICE which hasn't been receiving ANY updates for a while now .. and I personally would STILL consider that MUCH more secure than any version of Windows with up-to-date AV/Anti-malware ;)

--  PCNetSpec, Cornwall, Eng.  Dec 03, 2013 5:18 pm