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Author Topic: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?  (Read 18302 times)

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Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2015, 05:00:35 pm »
Hi all, how's going? As of Ubuntu 15.04, Ubuntu MATE is going to be officially in the Ubuntu stable: https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/.  I find this news both strange and somewhat amusing.  Is this decision to officially include the MATE spin an unofficial admission that Unity is a marketing disaster?  Whatever the reason, it must have been a painful decision for Mark Shuttleworth to make.

I ran Ubuntu MATE 14.10 64bit for a short while.  It is very quick, very slick and it appears to be rock solid.  I have to say I was really impressed with it.  However there are words of wisdom from PCSpecNet in regards to MATE's long term viability.  The reason that the plug was originally pulled on GNOME 2 was because the development team felt it had reached its "sell by date".  I can fully understand PCNetSpec's concerns that the MATE team are trying to maintain the DE by patching patches so to speak?  I personally hope that MATE development can continue without a hitch.  One has to ask though.  Could this official support of Ubuntu 15.10 MATE herald an official Ubuntu renaissance or, is it just an accident waiting to happen  ;)?
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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2015, 05:34:51 pm »

Ubuntu 10.10 Maverick Meerkat .. the last version with Gnome 2.x and IMHO the best Ubuntu [...]

Agreed!  That's my backup OS, to this day [I use it when I break the dev branch].  Saved my bacon again, this week.

Really it's a 'cosmic' thing.  You just know that any release named 10.10 has to be a 10/10.   8) 

Online VinDSL

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2015, 05:51:40 pm »
I personally hope that MATE development can continue without a hitch.  One has to ask though.  Could this official support of Ubuntu 15.10 MATE herald an official Ubuntu renaissance or, is it just an accident waiting to happen  ;)

This podcast is worth 1000 posts...   ;D

http://linuxluddites.com/media/LinuxLuddites026.mp3  (fast-forward to 1:07:00)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 06:05:39 pm by VinDSL, Reason: Addendum »

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2015, 06:07:59 pm »
Well give us a clue .. I'm not sure I want to sit through a 94MB, 2 hour 17 miuntes mp3  :o
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 06:11:02 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Online VinDSL

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2015, 06:10:11 pm »
Well give us a clue .. I'm not sure I want to sit through a 94MB, 2 hour 17 miuntes mp3  :o

Sorry!  I edited the post above.

Fast-forward to 1:07:00

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2015, 06:11:52 pm »
yeah just spotted that :)

I'll check it out now....
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2015, 08:03:42 pm »
Interesting stuff .. but as I've said before I'm of the opinion MATE has no long term future, Gnome 2.x is dead, they're doing a good job of keeping the corpse warm, but at the end of the day it's still a corpse.
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Offline perknh

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2015, 09:02:03 pm »
I'm taking it, PCNetSpec, that you're seeing LXQt, or Cinnamon, as the next movers and shakers in the desktop world.  From what I can gather, it's the Cinnamon desktop that is so popular in Mint.  Why wouldn't Ubuntu co-opt Cinnamon DE if it's so popular in Mint?  Also, as we talked about months ago, Lxde is generally moving more and more towards LXQt within most distributions -- even if not in Peppermint.  Sounds as if Cinnamon is already big now, while LXQt is up and coming.

I take it you see Unity as here to stay within Ubuntu.  Hopefully Canonical will clean up its act concerning privacy issues within Unity in the future.
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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2015, 10:46:01 pm »
Interesting stuff .. but as I've said before I'm of the opinion MATE has no long term future [...]

Hrm...

I just realized that Compiz has a 'Mate Compatibility' tic in CCSM now.   ;)



Offline emegra

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2015, 01:39:24 am »
I used to think the same way as Mark that Mate was just Gnome 2 on life support but This podcast is changing my mind in fact I wouldn't mind it being adopted as a replacement for LXDE in future Peppermint releases

Anyway here's a podcast I think is definately worth listening to as well http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/78217/ubuntu-mate-gets-legit-lup-82/

It's an interview with the Ubuntu Mate maintainer it starts at 59:03 and lasts for 25 mins approx and by the sound of it Mate is here for the long haul



Graeme
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Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2015, 03:53:15 am »
I'm with you Graeme.  It is obvious that Martin Wimpress and the MATE team have really worked hard.  I think the effort they have put into the project has made MATE a lot more than a well maintained corpse.  As I have previously mentioned, I ran for a short time Ubuntu MATE 14.10.  It's really surprisingly very good.  According to Arindam Sen's blog review.  Its not quite as quick as Lubuntu. It's much snappier than Xubuntu though: ubuntu-mate-1410-review.  I installed Peppermint's Ice application to see how it would work in the MATE environment.  The SSB's appear in the menu structure but without icons.  I guess that would be easy to fix.  Everything else worked flawlessly.  The SSBs fired up with no problems.  From what I have gathered from hearing several interviews with Martin Wimpress.  It really sounds like MATE is here to stay.  Ubuntu MATE is most certainly attracting a lot of attention and receiving very favourable reviews in the process.  I would most certainly back a MATE spin of Peppermint to run as an alternative desktop to LXDE

I also like perknh's idea of initiating a tip option in future Peppermint releases with, Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/.  It's a fantastic and very affordable way of raising revenue to help our developers keep Peppermint the awesome distro it is now  ;).
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2015, 07:08:52 am »
I used to think the same way as Mark that Mate was just Gnome 2 on life support but This podcast is changing my mind

Odd, because I saw it as strengthening my position  :-\

So the fact it's based on a ton of dead libraries that the lead developer admits they haven't the manpower to update (more than a few) .. or that they can't switch to gtk3 as they haven't the manpower to keep up with Gnome .. or the fact that that tells you they haven't the clout of Gnome yet are tasked with maintaining a whole Gnome version and indeed one that Gnome themselves considered hard to maintain .. leaves no impression on you ?

There's also the fact that if they switch to anything other than Gnome 2.x (and even gtk2), they'll hit the same user arguments that Unity and Cinnamon faced .. that it'll not be Gnome 2.x and work with the plethora of third party Gnome 2.x plugins there are.

They seem to know they've got to change .. yet the whole reason for their existence is to NOT change .. bit of a dilemma there don't you think ;)

@AndyInMokum

I'm not detracting from the hard work they've obviously put in .. I'm just suggesting that the job of maintaining Gnome 2.x is too big for them so it'll age badly and at an ever increasing rate .. or they'll have to switch to something else (which he admits having discussions about) which kinda renders MATE as you know it dead anyway.

Your ICE SSB comment points out their problem .. they *should* work, icons and all as they use the freedesktop.org standards .. if they don't  it meanssomething is broken in their desktop environment, but they guy in the podcast suggests that little problems like that will likely not be fixed as they haven't the manpower.
Over time there'll be more and more apps that break in the MATE environment and go unfixed .. and this will likely accelerate.

Seriously guys, I hope I'm wrong .. or they get the devs they'd need to keep up with bugfixing .. but that would require them to become larger than Gnome as even they were having problems.

To me MATE already feels 'rougher' than Gnome 2.x did in say Ubuntu 10.10 .. If MATE continues to exist and be relevant I doubt it'll be as the Gnome 2.x fork it is today .. but then again my crystal balls are not infallible :)

Quote from: perknh
I take it you see Unity as here to stay within Ubuntu.

Yes .. in fact I'm not even sure Ubuntu are in the Linux desktop market any more, besides it being treated as a useful plugin and test bed for their mobile push.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 09:45:41 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline Slim.Fatz

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2015, 01:35:32 pm »
Wow! I didn't know that PCNetSpec had crystal balls!! Must have been one of the more expensive surgical procedures that only private medical insurance covers ...

 :P

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Offline rjm65

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2015, 02:16:16 pm »
The crystal balls are nothing you should see his Silver Sceptre....   LMAO     :o
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Offline perknh

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Re: Why Such a Dislike and Lack of Adoption for the Unity Desktop?
« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2015, 02:51:26 pm »
Quote
Peppermint is not planning on going down the Qt route, it'll be sticking with Gtk .. Peppermint has been progressively moving away from a pure LXDE environment for some time (in fact it never was), and will continue to do so .. if anything, the LXQt thing will probably just speed this up a bit, but if you really take a good look at Peppermint 5 there's not rally that many LXDE components left, certainly not that many that couldn't easily be swapped out ;) --PCNetSpec

http://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php/topic,926.msg7987.html#msg7987

It will be interesting to see which direction Peppermint 6 goes.  But we do have PCNetSpec's back.  If the fog clears for MATE, and PCNetSpec wants Peppermint 6 to return to the better Maverick Meerkat days.  I'm sure he'll have Peppermint Nation behind him. 

I was shocked to see that when I finished configuring Ubuntu's MATE 14.04.1, I had it looking almost exactly the same as Peppermint.  It would not be a large leap for Peppermint's users to go from our Peppermint version of LXDE to a Peppermint version of MATE.  Changes are coming for Peppermint 6.  I imagine MATE has to be one of the options on Peppermint 6's drawing board.

Being a latecomer to Linux, I never realized how the early Ubuntuites must have felt after the introduction of Unity.  The early GNOME users of Ubuntu must have felt like they got shot at and missed, ignored, and then bit.  :(

That would leave anyone with a bad feeling.

We're all Peppermint users and that's what matters  ;).  -- AndyInMokum