Author Topic: Just Curious - Is this statement true?  (Read 1401 times)

Online grafiksinc

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Just Curious - Is this statement true?
« on: July 05, 2017, 03:18:34 am »
I was listening to Joe Collins the other day on YouTube.  He was reviewing the "new"  POP OS from System 76.
At some point he starts talking about how  distros based on Ubuntu flavors  for example Lubuntu,Xbuntu etc...  vs based on Ubuntu.
and at about 19:40 https://youtu.be/ed-U3wjl68Q?t=19m40s he starts hitting on the thing I am curious about.

So is it true do you have "reverse engineer" things? :-\


Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Just Curious - Is this statement true?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2017, 04:18:37 am »
No .. I have no idea what he was trying to say there :-\

Ubuntu (like us) don't author most of the software on their system, they simply (re)package it .. in fact most of it is packaged for Debian and then those packages **modified/patched** for Ubuntu, which is no different to what we do. We create some Peppermint packages ourselves from scratch (such as peppermint-default-settings), others are modified versions of Ubuntu packages where we download the source code, modify it, then rebuild the package on Launchpad.

As for "long lists of PPA's" .. this is not how Peppermint works, I can't speak for other distros that may add tons of PPA's to access software not in the upstream Ubuntu repos, but Peppermint have just the upstream repos and our own PPA .. if we want something contained in another PPA we copy it to ours (after testing of course), we do NOT just add the third party PPA as that would release control of software updates in Peppermint to those third parties and possibly represent a security risk.

So Peppermint are effectively doing things exactly like Mint, most packages come directly unchanged from upstream Ubuntu (but we have full access to the source code), the rest are from our own PPA .. beyond upstream Ubuntu there is NO third party with ANY control over what gets onto your system unless YOU choose to add a PPA.

The "backwards engineering" comment makes no sense .. we have access to the same source code for packages that Ubuntu do :-\

Can I also make a statement here .. I keep hearing from Youtubers that "there are too many distros", or "most distros shouldn't exist because they aren't **different enough**", or "there are too many competing package managers", or " too much duplication of effort". Do these people not realise that's precisely what has made Linux and FOSS great ? .. even if someone makes a Xubuntu spin with just better icons it's still valid if it makes Xubuntu up their game or results in something that people prefer, that's how Linux and FOSS works, cream rises to the top, and dregs sink.

By their arguments Mint wouldn't exist because it was originally just Ubuntu in green with the proprietary codecs included OOTB, but now Mint creates it's own desktop environment, and the Xapps that are influencing and benefiting the entire Linux ecosystem .. cream rising to the top because it was given the opportunity and time to do so.

Linux and FOSS works so well as a development model precisely BECAUSE OF forks, code sharing/reuse, and respins, not IN SPITE OF them.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 08:27:33 am by PCNetSpec »
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Online grafiksinc

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Re: Just Curious - Is this statement true?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2017, 04:39:11 am »
BAM! perfect answer, LOL. I totally agree. 8)
Thanks! for the insight. ;)

Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Just Curious - Is this statement true?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2017, 05:00:06 am »
TVM, and you're most welcome :)
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Just Curious - Is this statement true?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2017, 07:44:55 am »
The "backwards engineering" comment makes no sense .. we have access to the same source code for packages that Ubuntu do :-\

I know, right?  That made no sense at all.  You don't backwards engineer anything, you take the source code and modify it to make your OS.

Also, aren't the "official" spins like Kubuntu, Xubuntu, (which he said very weirdly) Lubuntu, etc. doing pretty much the same thing?  I mean, they're not working directly with the team at Canonical, they're developed by independent teams and are also basically a modification of the source code.   The biggest difference is that they've been given the "blessing" of Canonical, to be considered an official spin.  I'm sure they have to do certain things to maintain that status, like develop their version within a certain set of parameters, but they're not officially part of Canonical.

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Re: Just Curious - Is this statement true?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2017, 08:40:05 am »
The recent spats between the Kubuntu team and Ubuntu/Canonical shows they're not particularly close working partners ;)
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Offline zebedeeboss

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Re: Just Curious - Is this statement true?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2017, 09:36:09 am »
Hi PCNetSpec

You need to put that reply on Joe Collins Video - set him right - he does not disseminate incorrect information knowingly and deliberately - he may simply not be fully aware.

Regards Zeb...
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Just Curious - Is this statement true?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2017, 10:15:32 am »
I've given up trying to "put things right" on Youtube Zeb, sadly it never ends well. ;)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 10:27:21 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline scifidude79

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Re: Just Curious - Is this statement true?
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2017, 10:51:35 am »
The recent spats between the Kubuntu team and Ubuntu/Canonical shows they're not particularly close working partners ;)

That's funny, because I figured Kubuntu and Xubuntu were the closest relation to Canonical, as they've been around almost as long and have actual ties to Canonical.  Kubuntu has "Kubuntu is a trademark of Canonical Ltd." on their website.  Xubuntu has that also, but Lubuntu actually says on their site that they're **not** associated with Canonical.  (but they are considered an official spin now)  Ubuntu MATE also lists no ties to Canonical, no matter what that guy making the video thinks.  As I said earlier, they have the blessing of Canonical but, as far as I know, Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu are the only three actually affiliated with Canonical.  But, they still have separate dev teams.

Of course, Edubuntu was another one owned by Canonical, but it's dead these days.  Mythbuntu may have been another one, but that has gone from being a separate distro to basically being a META package you can install in Ubuntu.