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Author Topic: Thoughts for future releases  (Read 9091 times)

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Offline rjm65

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2014, 06:24:05 pm »
Well i installed pep 5 fresh and of course you know the wifi didn't work...
no problem you gave me commands to get it working and it did, then while it was downloading updates the screen went black...
well since i already removed light locker and its settings and rebooted i could not figure out why this would happen, meanwhile there are no icons for pcmanfm or or any other useful items like terminal in the task bar in the quick launch tray...  I was just disappointed on how things were working on a fresh install and i was thinking to myself what if someone who knows very little about machines would be trying to do this and install this os? But again there is always the forums to go ask for help as we know, but shouldn't have all these buggies going on like light locker and other stuff have been fixed and a respin made already? I'm not trying to diss anyone, I am just pointing out how my install went, and I decided later on in the day to just bag it and not try to fix pep 5 and all the issues I encountered, and I just blasted on a copy of linux mint 17 cinnamon...  By the way after cinnamon installed it said there was 350 megs of updates i did them all and they had my wifi card as an update cause it sprang to life after the updates completed...  ;)
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Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2014, 06:57:02 pm »
I agree with rjm65 on the WiFi issues a lot of people seems to be encountering.  I didn't have a problem with this and my installation was very smooth and trouble free compared to rjm65's bumpy ride.  Having the WiFi working out of the box is crucial for Peppermint to maintain its reputation as Linux's premier Cloud orientated system in my opinion.  Okay, in the majority of cases it is really easy to fix.  However, for a nOOb, this could be a frustrating hurdle and a possible show stopper.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 07:18:24 pm by AndyInMokum »
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Offline perknh

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2014, 07:36:41 pm »
Say what's on your mind rjm65.  You're one of Peppermint's Trusted Users.  You are always helping people.  Believe me, your opinions carry weight around here.  ;)

I'll tell you, I loved, loved, loved Peppermint 4 -- even without of security updates.  Since Peppermint 5 was released, I've worked on two old computers that really couldn't handle it very well -- perhaps due to issues with Chromium browser -- and I've had excellent experiences with Peppermint 5 on two personal computers too.

rjm65, you taught me that not every distribution agrees with every computer.  That insight has helped me a great deal.  And you're terrific at solving computer problems -- and very tough problems at that.

So, please, share your thoughts and concerns with Peppermint 5.  They may end up making Peppermint 6 better.

And now to change the subject for a moment.  Did you notice that PCNetSpec created a password that only Data from Star Trek could remember?

guyaduyayadddayaddadequeueue

Now that's a password to help keep the bad guys away!  :)
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2014, 08:19:54 pm »
You misunderstand our (and pretty much any other distro's) update policy .. I agree switching from xscreensaver to lightlocker was probably a mistake and will likely be dropped either in a respin or in a future release, but it is NOT for us to release an update that removes it on system where people may have already made their own adjustments/tweaks

For those that are happy with lightlocker, are we to remove it from their systems too ?



Wireless .. has Peppermint ever included the b43 firmware ? .. I thought that was license restricted.
(If not, I'll back putting it in the next respin/release)

"Additional drivers" should solve this quite easily though, and AFAIK has always been the way the broadcom firmware was installed legitimately.



"Quick launch" icons .. erm, as with pre-installed software, I personally don't want them, indeed I'd do away with the application launch bar panel applet altogether, the logout button which is the only reason it's loaded in the first place is duplicated in the menu.

Also bear in mind a lot of people have limited screen size with netbooks .. we purposely chose not to clutter the panel, hence the default 2 workspaces rather than the more common 4, but it's all user adjustable .. personally I think the balance of function without (what some would consider unecessary) clutter is about right

This is purely personal preference .. and Peppermint has never had quick launch icons .. in fact, as we barely have any locally installed apps, so what the heck would we put in the "quick launch" area ?

You can't please all the people, all the time, and all that  :-\
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 08:37:31 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline perknh

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2014, 08:42:31 pm »
Quote
"Quick launch" icons .. erm, as with pre-installed software, I personally don't want them, indeed I'd do away with the application launch bar panel applet altogether, the logout button which is the only reason it's loaded in the first place is duplicated in the menu.  -- PCNetSpec

PCNetSpec, do you prefer desktop icons to using the panel applet?  I began using the panel applet (the second launch bar application) after I discovered its existence.  I thought it would use fewer system resources than Plank -- a dock I like very much.

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Offline rjm65

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2014, 08:56:17 pm »
I Never said to remove light locker?  I just said I removed it and still had a problem...  I did however say it was a buggie that needed fixing in a respin.... 
not to keep going back to mint 17 but I must say they have no light locker problem at all i go into setting turn off light locker and go into power manager and choose to disable dpms and walla the machine ran here for 8 hours without going to a black screen, xset q on pep 5 install after removing light locker showed me DPMS was on and it was set 600 600 600 across the board or ten minutes...  Mark I am just pointing out what I came across to help you and the creators or peppermint so maybe these things can be looked into for a future respin I would love to see pep 5 respin come out and install and work perfectly out of the box without any issues whatsoever, is this too much to ask for, nah I know you guys can do it I have faith in you all...  Will I use pep 5 in the future?  I sure would I would have loved to use it on this mini 10 since the guy gave it to me now and its mine I wanted to put an LTS on it was light weight...  I have mint 17 on my eeepc but that has 2 gigs ram and even though this dell mini 10 has all the same specs as the eeepc it is only 1 gig ram instead of 2 and from what i see online you have to remove the entire motherboard to upgrade the ram so i said Pfffffffffffft on that and decided to go with pep 5...  I may go back again I don't know, but mint 17 is running so fine i hate too at this point...  A while back some guy said mint 17 cinnamon booted faster then pep5, well I did test their boot times on fresh installs before i messed around with any settings and pep 5 booted in 43 seconds mint 17 was 58 seconds, so 15 seconds longer for mint in bootup...  however pep 5 stops on btfrs for about 12 seconds or more so pep 5 could boot as fast as 30 seconds on that old single core machine with 1 gig ram...   
another suggestion i would make is maybe put a package together somewhere that installs all the programs for you, again i use as example mint 17 cinnamon has all the programs i want, firefox, vlc office, brasero banshee gimp just to name a few...  For people like me it is nice to be able to install an os and not have to go about downloading 30 programs to make it ready for a customer or friend...  Pep 5 is like bare bones and having a package to install all the stuff at once would be awesome...
well it is time to relax my day is over....  Have a good night friends...
Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate it...  :)
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2014, 09:16:28 pm »
Quote
I Never said to remove light locker?  I just said I removed it and still had a problem...  I did however say it was a buggie that needed fixing in a respin....
not to keep going back to mint 17 but I must say they have no light locker problem at all i go into setting turn off light locker and go into power manager and choose to disable dpms and walla the machine ran here for 8 hours without going to a black screen, xset q on pep 5 install after removing light locker showed me DPMS was on and it was set 600 600 600 across the board or ten minutes...

All connected to lightlocker .. you removed lightlocker with the settings applied .. so they stayed applied.

Mint's powermanager obviously is more complex (and obviously ties together better with the lightlocker setttings) then the Xfce one we use .. but I'll bet it's also heavier.
There are a lot of things that are slightly "easier" and/or more integrated in Cinnamon or Unity .. but at the cost of weight.

lightlocker was a mistake, and will be dropped or another power manager used .. but there's little we can do about it in the current spin of Peppermint.

A respin will not help people unless they do a complete reinstall .. but I agree it needs-a-fixin :)



Quote
another suggestion i would make is maybe put a package together somewhere that installs all the programs for you, again i use as example mint 17 cinnamon has all the programs i want, firefox, vlc office, brasero banshee gimp just to name a few...  For people like me it is nice to be able to install an os and not have to go about downloading 30 programs to make it ready for a customer or friend

Can I draw your attention to the "peppermint-metapackages" in your package manager(s). We went out of our way to do exactly what you suggest .. in fact the installation slideshow draws your attention to them and we put them in a prominent position in the Software Manager, so I can't see what more we could do

We're also open to suggestions for other Peppermint-metapackages" and the software to include in them ..

But if you're after a distro with tons of pre-installed software .. I'm afraid you're in the wrong place.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 09:25:31 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline cavy

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2014, 09:19:45 pm »
Peppermint doesn't come with pre-installed software unless it's 100% necessary .. that's one of the things I like about it, I don't have to remove someone else's software choices before installing what *I* want.

So I REALLY don't want LO, VLC, gThumb, Clementine, etc. pre-installed .. even though I personally *do* install 3 of those, others would choose differently.

For me it's enough that they're available and easily installable from the package managers .. but I DON'T want them chosen for me.

Point taken, PCNetSpec..!

I do appreciate the SPARTAN nature of Peppermint, it is WHY I came back, after my distro hopping experience. My present known grapes aside.

In the same token, a convert to Linux and them choosing Peppermint as their first venture is not self evident, even though Andy rightly says there is a perfectly good install and Terminal use guide on the main website. But the learning curve is still too great for your average Micro$oft jockey. Take my sister (including her grown up family) and numerous close friends, BIOS what BIOS, whats that. You can't be doing that, you'll knacker that. It is like a medieval incantation and fear of the unknown, Linux being a form of Dark Magic only practised by witches and warlocks.

There are several ways to accommodate the novice user through to grizzled veterans, by offering several versions of Peppermint either at the ISO stage or during installation via the new or improved installer.

1. Guru Pack -  core desktop with software manager, synaptic package manager and terminal only, one widget and one icon theme, no apps or browser, for experts.

2. Girly Pack - normal peppermint desktop, for cavey.

3. Novice Pack - containing normal peppermint desktop, plus music player, dvd player, photo viewer, webcam, cd/dvd burner, cd ripper and office suite, for average user.

4. Office Pack - utilise the Peppermint office package, for business use.

5. Graphic Pack - utilise the Peppermint graphic package, graphic designers.

Just a few more ideas to flesh out the general discussion  8)
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2014, 09:51:17 pm »
See my last response ... vis--vis the peppermint-metapackages, that can install a set of software at a single click.

So that's already covered .. but we're open to suggestions for more "packs", just tell us what software you think should be included in the "pack" for single selection installation.

Peppermints primary differentiator / vision / ethos is to be small light and web centric .. fully functional out of the box with minimal locally installed applications (through the use of well integrated web apps), yet for it to be super easy to install what YOU want locally if YOU choose, and to be as easily customisable to YOUR OWN tastes as possible.

I repeat, anyone that's after something else is in the wrong place .. I don't mean that nastily, but Peppermint is what it is, there are enough top heavy software laden distros out there .. Peppermint has it's own web centric vision and niche, we make no secret of this.

It's not Peppermints goal to be "just another buntu" .. we have our own unique vision, we're open to suggestions for improvement where it fits in with that ethos but please stop suggesting we add tons of pre-installed stuff .. that's just NOT "Peppermint" ;)



Not sure what you mean by "BIOS" .. there is nothing specific to Peppermint that would have you entering the BIOS ?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 09:55:53 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline cavy

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2014, 07:33:55 am »
Not sure what you mean by "BIOS" .. there is nothing specific to Peppermint that would have you entering the BIOS ?

Referring to my sister and friends who I have encouraged to make the leap of faith and become Linux users, I explain they will have make minor adjustments to their BIOS,  disable secure boot, place on legacy mode/CMOS etc, their  eyes glaze over.  The Linux dark magic only practised by witches and warlocks.

When I converted, if I hadn't received help about BIOS settings, I would have never got past this first hurdle, with my Samsung, it wouldn't accept a Linux installation, as it stood with secure boot and other window related BIOS settings.

Got the message about adding, only for metapackages  :D

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Offline emegra

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2014, 12:55:12 pm »
I don't think bundling extra software is in line with the ethos of Peppermint so long as we make it easy to install the software each individual user wants, in fact installing the software after installation is the fun part for me

but I think what ever software is bundled should work out of the box or simply not be there, a perfect example would be Guayadeque because in my experience installing various versions of Peppermint I've never got it to work at least not satisfactorily,

Any time I've tried to use it I've been told I need some unspecified gstreamer plugin and when I go to look for it I find there's 3 possibilities, one good one bad and one ugly, surely we can come up with a music player that just works and if not it would be better not to have one at all and I think that should apply to any software bundled with Peppermint


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Offline 10i

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2014, 02:31:47 pm »
I like Peppermint and have enjoyed it for a while now.

I would like to see something like what Puppy Linux had (a while back, not sure if it still has it now). After installation it opens a web page, that was stored locally during installation. This page contains some getting started info.

Maybe it could mention how to get wifi working and a few other FAQ.

Just a suggestion, what do you think?
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2014, 05:06:08 pm »
@cavy

Ahh, UEFI/Secure boot .. I get ya :)



@emegra

guyaduyayadddayaddadequeueue .. I agree :)



@10i

Great idea .. IIRC, we did look at a welcome screen for Peppermint 4, but never got around to it. I like the locally stored "web page" idea, and it'd be very simple to implement :)
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2014, 05:48:02 pm »
Quote
"Quick launch" icons .. erm, as with pre-installed software, I personally don't want them, indeed I'd do away with the application launch bar panel applet altogether, the logout button which is the only reason it's loaded in the first place is duplicated in the menu.  -- PCNetSpec

PCNetSpec, do you prefer desktop icons to using the panel applet?  I began using the panel applet (the second launch bar application) after I discovered its existence.  I thought it would use fewer system resources than Plank -- a dock I like very much.

perknh

Sorry perknh, I must have missed that posting  :-[

I'm "old school" where desktop layout/workflow is concerned, I use my desktop for everything .. often used Apps get a desktop icon, and everything else gets either downloaded or created there .. then when it starts to fill up, I tidy stuff away to the "best fit" directories in my home folder for storage (or delete them).
Less used stuff just gets fired up from the menu.

In fact, very windows like .. the "desktop metaphor" was solved for me at Win95 <--> Win7 (type layouts .. ie. panel/taskbar, menu bottom right, and desktop icons) .. everything after that seems to over complicate things. If it aint broke.......

The bang everyting on my desktop till it's too much of a messs to get anything else done .. then have a tidy up, aka. sweeping it under the carpet never to be seen again  .. probably explains the state of my workplace too, but it works for me  :o
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 05:57:01 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline perknh

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2014, 08:58:03 pm »
Thank you, PCNetSpec,

I was wondering if there was a new way of getting into a program -- that's all!

I've got about 10 tools I use all of the time:  Chrome, Skype, Software Updater, Synaptic Package Manager, Calculator, Disks, File Manager, and the Terminal -- and that's about it.  For the rare times I use something else, I go to the menu and look for it.  I also have kept the Desktop Pager, even if I always forget to use it!  I enjoy looking at desktop art, or Bing photos, set as wallpaper, so this is probably why I find the Application Launch Bar so appealing. 

When I read that the Application Launch Bar may, or will, be going away one day, I was wondering how you would be dealing with that.

Thank you for posting.  ;) 

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