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Offline emegra

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Thoughts for future releases
« on: November 19, 2014, 04:07:30 pm »
I would like to mention a few proposals for future releases of Peppermint that I believe would make Peppermint a more enjoyable and less frustrating experience for new users
in particular

(1) Ubiquity: Ubiquity has a few issues the first is it doesn't show the drive space in text form when in the divider so the only guide a user has is a graphical guide which   may be fine if you want to divide the drive space in percentage terms but quite useless if want to use a specific amount,

the second is much more annoying not to mention dangerous, and in fact caused me to lose a complete Windows partition which is the default allocated drive space ie recently I was installing Peppermint for a friend alongside her Windows partition, when I got to the divider screen the divider wouldn't work so I decided to just use the default amount with the intention of increasing the partition size in gparted after installation but when I got to the next screen I got an error message telling me I haven't allocated enough space ( I didn't allocate the space Ubiquity allocated the space) one thing led to another and I ended up losing the Windows partition and installing Peppermint on the entire disc, fortunately I backed up important files on the Windows partition before I started but it poses the question what's the point of setting a default amount of drive space when it's not enough?, an experience like that for any new user could be enough to put them off trying any Linux distribution for life,

(2) Software Updater: Or more rightly Automatic Updates simply put doesn't work at least not for everyone, I installed Peppermint 5 on 4 home computers and it didn't work out of the box with  any of them and i know from reading the forums that others are having the same issue, this is a problem that has sprung up since the Peppermint 5 release   although I have  reason to believe it's been inherited form Lubuntu but whatever the source of the problem is if we can't fix it maybe we could look for another default system
    updater

None of the above are meant as complaints as such they're just things that should just work and I think if fixed would help make Peppermint the distribution we all want it to be and create a more enjoyable experience for current and new users alike
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 04:18:16 pm by emegra »
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Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2014, 04:37:05 pm »
Graeme has brought up two really important issues,  I can't make an assessment on the first because I only install Peppermint as a stand alone OS.  I prepare the partitions in GParted and do a manual install.  Ubiquity performs really well like this.  I can understand the frustrations for someone trying to do a dual boot and only having percentages to work with. The to loose a partition.  I recently reinstalled Crunchbang alongside Peppermint.  They are obviously using the Debian installer.  I have to say it is really very easy to use and has more options than the present Ubiquity installer.  I think it would be a good idea to look at Debian's installer as a serious candidate for future releases of Peppermint.

Graeme's second point, namely the updater I have had first hand experience with.  It was a pain in the backside and a potential security risk.  So many people got caught out with it. Mark's solution of swapping it out for Mint's Update proved to be the ideal solution.  The updates now come through in a timely manner.  I think that Mint's Update Manager should be seriously considered as the default Manager for future Peppermint releases.  That's my two penny's worth  :).

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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2014, 05:12:25 pm »
The version of Ubiquity from 14.04 had what I consider a serious "bug" .. they rephrased "Erase Disk" with "Replace OS" which was misleading to say the least when a dual boot setup was envisioned.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1265192

Ubiquity also defaulted to erasing the entire disk when Windows wasn't detected properly (usually because of a GPT partition table), unfortunately the rise of Win8 and PC's with GPT, and the rephrasing combined into a "perfect storm" for a lot of people.

Mint rephrased it in their version of ubiquity:
https://github.com/linuxmint/ubiquity/blob/master/debian/changelog

Quote
* Rephrased ambiguous/confusing/dangerous "Replace OS with Linux Mint" -> "Erase disk and install Linux Mint"

I know Kendall planned to included the Mint changes to ubiquity in a Peppermint respin (dunno what happened to that ?) .. but you can be sure that in the next version of Peppermint, ubiquity will be tested more rigorously and we'll be keeping an eye on developments at other distros, Mint in particular.

As for the slider not mentioning the size .. dunno if that's being looked at either b Ubuntu or Mint.

Updater .. I'll be pushing for mintupdate (with modified default settings, to download ALL updates rather than Mints silly habit of disabling some updates)

Problem is we cannot (won't) push mintupdate as an "update" to the current version of Peppermint 5 .. some people will have made system customisations or be working around the problem .. it wouldn't be fair to thrust a whole new update method on them, where they turn on  their PC and think what the heck is that.

If on the other hand a "fix" for the current updater can be found.........

But I don't have a system that suffers this problem .. some of my clients do, but I can't very well hold onto their PC's whilst I try figure out the root cause.

If anyone comes across a fix, let me know and I'll see if it can be released as an update.

Until then, you can always use the version of mintupdate from these instructions:
http://forum.peppermintos.com/index.php/topic,1104.msg10003.html#msg10003
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 05:48:55 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline iamesperambient

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2014, 09:49:03 am »
mint updater is working fine for me (with some glitches where it gets stuck refreshing and i have to manually right click and refresh)
but i must say the default one was not working for me at all.
I would say at this point you may have a lot of unhappy campers if the default updater doesn't work,
Its a pretty crappy bug to have.
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Offline emegra

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2014, 10:32:20 am »
Quote
But I don't have a system that suffers this problem .. some of my clients do, but I can't very well hold onto their PC's whilst I try figure out the root cause.

I'm sure Chloes PC still has this issue if so I could let you connect it to your team viewer account if that's any help
I could keep it switched on and you can work on it when you please




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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2014, 10:41:08 am »
For the time being I'm just advising people to switch to mintupdate

I don't really like the idea of experimenting on someone else's PC that I don't have local access to .. but thanks for the offer.
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Offline perknh

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2014, 08:37:25 am »
Team Peppermint,

There's one item, or tool, I could use in Peppermint, and that would be the ability to Safely Remove Drive.  When I go to remove my Toshiba external hard drive, I never know quite how to do so.  I usually unmount it, but I'd like to see the command to safely remove the drive.

I hope I'm making some sense here.

Thank you,

perknh
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2014, 09:21:52 am »
Unmounting the drive is the same thing.

Someone said in an earlier topic that that didn't spin down the drive .. no it doesn't but it does ensure that any cached data is written to the drive then the read heads are moved the "parked" position, so unplugging the drive will safely spin down the drive (there's no need to 'manually' power down the drive).

In fact in Nautilus/Nemo/and probably Caja, unmounnting the drive through the file manager will throw up a popup saying it's now safe to remove/unplug the drive.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 09:25:08 am by PCNetSpec »
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Offline perknh

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2014, 10:12:36 am »
Thank you, PCNetSpec.  I was never certain about that.  ;)
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Offline cavy

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2014, 03:53:23 pm »
Apart from the known tech issues discussed above. The following niggles have to be addressed to attract, then keep potential new Linux converts, distro hoppers and seasoned users. 

1. Current base widget selection has to be improved, only Peppermint-Light and Orion-Peppermint, actually have a continuity through their range, neither being my first choice. The Ambiance and Radiance XFCE and LXDE theme from Noobs Lab, work: in all colours. Could be a good starting point, having matching widget and window decor, plus they compliment the Faenza icon range.

2. Would it be possible to sort the Software Manager by removing  redundant or useless items on offer, and into their own category. Keep finding odd items not in their obvious home section. 

3. Clementine, VLC and gThumb as default apps, they're intuitive and straightforward to use. Reason, as a Linux newbie (late 2011) I thought Ubuntu's media player, DVD player and photo viewer were .....! Spent many hours going through buntu's software centre until I found function, use-ability, reliability and added some colour on my Linux desktop. Music, photos and vids taken care of.

Bar adding LibreOffice as the default word processor suite, this would still be a bloat free distro, and highly polished if the niggles and tech issues were ironed out, IMO.  :D
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2014, 04:19:51 pm »
Peppermint doesn't come with pre-installed software unless it's 100% necessary .. that's one of the things I like about it, I don't have to remove someone else's software choices before installing what *I* want.

So I REALLY don't want LO, VLC, gThumb, Clementine, etc. pre-installed .. even though I personally *do* install 3 of those, others would choose differently.

For me it's enough that they're available and easily installable from the package managers .. but I DON'T want them chosen for me.



Non-default themes will receive closer attention next time around .. we're aware of the weird display behaviour of some of the legacy themes, but won't fix via update as it may mess with already applied user customisation.
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Offline AndyInMokum

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2014, 04:59:14 pm »
It was the lack of pre-installed software and the the emphasise on Cloud functionality that attracted me as a relative nOOb to the Peppermint Project around a year ago.  The user manual provides clear and concise instructions on how to install and remove software.  I immediately removed Guayadeque because I can't pronounce it :D and installed Clementine.  I also installed VLC and dumped the default one that I can't remember the name of.  Those were my choices though.  They could well be completely the wrong ones for someone else.  I personally want Peppermint to remain as a "vanilla" as possible with easy access to the chocolate topping, nuts and sprinkles in the combination I want ;).
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2014, 05:01:50 pm »
^What he said^ .. with (no) nutz :)

Dunno why, but I find it infuriating when software choices are made for me >:(
(even if it's stuff I like)

A mediaplayer was a necessity (you can't really have a web app mediaplayer) .. and guyaduyayadddayaddadequeueue was at least "lite", though VLC might be a better future option.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 05:11:40 pm by PCNetSpec »
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Offline rjm65

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2014, 05:28:57 pm »
Well, being the local family and friend guru of sorts, I prefer Linux Mint 17 Cinnamon and it is my first choice every time, because it is loaded and after install i just have to make a few adjustments, and give the person their machine back...
Peppermint is my favorite for the older machines....
I won't disclose my feelings about Pep 5 in the forum at this time, because I don't think it is right for me to say things in the public area that are bothering me about pep 5...   
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Offline PCNetSpec

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Re: Thoughts for future releases
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2014, 05:33:21 pm »
Why not ? .. we can take it (as long as you're civil about it) :)

Constructive criticism is always welcome, we can't rectify things we don't know about .. doesn't mean we have to agree though ;)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 05:46:36 pm by PCNetSpec »
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